Looking for new life for my little buddy, Wessleigh (Wes to his close friends)

My name is Bryan but to most that know me well I'm Bonz, a retired old fart living with my lovely wife and 2 puds. Missy and Wes are indoor cats, which seems to doom them to a life of boredom. We've lost so many cats to cars, disease, and predators that we've tried to make their lives as interesting as possible in a protected environmemt. Pud's don't stop and look both ways when they cross the street ( and they will try, it's their nature).
Missy and Wes are Blue Jay's and Leaf's fans, Missy is obnoxious while Wes is a loveable and newly diagnose diabetic Maine Coon male. In March we noticed Wes was peeing nonstop and was covered with clumping litter which was a departure from his normal pristine self. We took him to our vet about the middle of March and about that time I started to follow this site and felineinfo. I quickly realized that I had to quarterback Wes's care and filter most of the information received from our vetinary community.

Wes has been on caninsuline U40 since the middle of march. I do understand the concept of the obligate carnivore and changed Wes to as low a carb diet as was possible. He feeds on Go Salmon and the Chicken and Duck mixture, since I'm not wealthy I supplement the Go with Fancy Feast Pate's. Missy gets an optional Fancy Feast Schredded Tuna and whatever dry food we had left over (Go Ckn).

Wes and Missy have access to the low carb foods. Wes only gets the low carb canned.

I ordered and received my free Contour glucometer even though the vet said it was a POS and I use $34 per 100 BD U100 syringes . My vet informs me that I could kill my cat using them even though I'm capable of dividing by 2.5. They want $65 per 100 plus tax vs the tax free syringes from the pharmacy. I buy my supplies on "Old Farts Day" for a 20% discount at Shoppers Drug Mart.

Wes is listless and sleeps much of the time and I make sure he access to fresh food through out the day and night./ He does have his moments and I'm hoping he comes around. His grooming has improved and his coat is thicker and has that Maine Coon sheen once again.

I give him 2.4 units of U40 Caninsulin twice daily. . My next step is to decide whether or not to stay with my current vet.

I'm trying more fully document We's condition. I've run some "mini curves"where I take readings through part of the days cycle. Some days I can get a decent blood sample, others I'm lucky to get one or two. Rather than force run blood samples every 2 hours, do as many as Wes is comfortable with and then extrapolate.
ie: if I record blood glucose from pre injection through the first 6-8 hours one day, complete the rest of the curve the next day. If I continually seek his high and low blood glucose I should get a better idea of where I'm at. Samples taken under minimal stress should be more usefull

Just to make it clear, it was my idea to do home testing

That's a lot to unload in one shot, so thanks for listening
For now

Bryan
AKA Bonzo

 

Welcome to FDMB.
Our go to source on feline nutrition is Cat Info. There are very few low carb dry foods - Evo Cat and Kitten, Stella and Chewey's freeze-dried (no crunch), and Young Again 0 Carb (internet only, pricey, and allegedly the cat eats less of it)
Great that you're home testing! And aside from pre-shot tests, yes, you can collect tests on different days. See my signature link Glucometer Notes for feline-specific reference ranges using various meter systems.
Just checking on the dose here:
U-100 insulin has 100 units per mL
U-40 (Caninsulin] has 40 units per mL, or 40% as concentrated
Using U-100 syringes with U-40 insulin is
0.4 * tick mark on U-100 = U-40 dose
Ex
0.4 * 1.0 tick mark = 0.4 units of U-40
0.4 * 2.0 tick mark = 0.8 units of U-40
Etc

 

Thanks for your concern. I do understand the conversion. Simply put, using a U100 syringe, one U40 unit = 2.5 graduations. right now i administer 2.4 units or 6 graduations. Using the U100 syringe I save more than 50%.

Wes is 100% on wet low carb. and has been since he was diagnosed. Even the lo carb dry foods don't seem suitable or am I being overly cautious.

My concern now is the malaise that Wes is experiencing. He has been sneezing the past few days. We was a rescue so the upper respiratory issues are in -play again. I am also watching his sugar at mid cycle. I wanted to compare my glucometer at low scale with the vets. The vet seems content to leave the dosage at 2 units and doesn't seem too interested in running a curve. I'll continue to learn, do my own testing and keep an eye out for another vet if need be.

I'm retired now but I was a tech, highly involved in instrumentation and diagnosis so I appreciate the importance of calibration and constant testing.

 

Great - just wanted to be sure.
Caninsulin tends to last 8-10 hours in most cats, so pre-shot values may seem high.
What country are you in? Insulin and food options vary some with geography.

 

I'm just across the lake from you in Ontario. My one wet food is made by Petcurean (Go) which is about 3% or less carb. Fancy Feast pate is cheaper and low carb, although not the best ingredients. The plus is it's like Kitty Crack. We live in Barrie, about an hour north of Toronto in cottage country. Our climates are pretty much identical. I was using BFF by weruva which was Tuna in aspic. It was pretty much all protein and water, the cats loved it but it didn't stick to their ribs. Go is the best bang for the buck nutritionally, but of course the puds like the FF

 

For your reading, our Caninsulin/Vetsulin Guide which you may helpful.
When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback without having to go look in all your past posts.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

 

The wife and I have had some issues with our own health and I didn't get around to logging in

Here is an update
Wes is a 7 year old Maine Coon diagnosed with Feline Diabetes 25 March 2015
His starting dose on caninsulin was 1 unit, he is now at 2.8
He had a flare up of upper respitory infection (first since his adoption 5 years ago)
His first course of antibiotics seemed to work but after 14 days it came back with almost total nasal blockage. It was an injected single dose antibiotic.
I had been testimg him using a contour but backed off to only necessary testing due to the high stress the ear prick induced.
He's been on a course of 17 capsules, 5 once per day then one every other day. The pill bottle is on the main floor and my legs are not co-operating tonight so I'll bring the bottle up tomorrow. Wes doesn't take capsules well so we wrap him in a towel and I drop a cap through a straw and give him a squirt of water with a syringe to force a swallow.
His injections are getting very smooth now with him barely reacting but I'm not happy with his condition. He's afraid of me now and he has this lost look in his eyes.
I have tried to run the shower spray and try to free up his nasal passage but he doesn't want to hang out in the shower area. I'm a gimp so he does get away easily. the vet had mentioned an eye drop that gave some decongestant relief. He also mentioned using paediatric otrivin but that's a bad idea due to the rebound after 2 or 3 days.
I'm going to have to do a mini curve with the contour, he's off his food the past week so he may be getting too much insulin he has a dazed look and his vision may be failing.
I may also be looking for a new veterinary team. There were a few areas that I had a better understanding of and I found that a tad scary. I also don't subscribe for the "close enough for a cat" way of doing things. Wes is family, I just have to find a better way. I'm fairly intelligent , I just have trouble walking and climbing stairs. )

 

I'm concerned that the symptoms/situation you're describing could be diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a very serious and life threatening condition. When you combine a lack of food, insufficient insulin and inflammation or infection this can lead to the appearance of ketones and subsequently DKA. If your meter doesn't test for ketones you can buy ketodiastix at the pharmacy quite cheaply and use those to test Wes' urine for ketones.

Are you giving Wes a low carb treat after each test? Most kitties adjust well to testing when they know there are treats involved. These days any time Purrdy hears an alarm he runs to his testing spot to wait for his treat and test. If you have trouble getting blood then heating or rubbing the ear prior to testing will help.

Caninsulin is generally not a great insulin for a cat because it doesn't have sufficient duration. You might want to consider changing to lantus, levemir, prozinc or PZI all of which are more appropriate for a cat.

Welcome aboard - fire away with any questions or issues that you have, we are here to help

 

Hi Bonzo, btw, I have a cat by that name! . She's kind of a crabby thing, and only loves me. She'll let my hubby pet her once in a while but she hates all 5 of our other cats.

Anyway, I was never able to use Goof's ears for testing as he'd freak out and then I'd have a meltdown. My vet suggested the paw pads as they have very little feeling, it works great. I haven't had any problems with infection due to litter box use, the hole is so tiny that a couple of times I've needed to re-test due to a fouled strip and had to re-poke as it had already sealed.

I also have a cat that suffers from 3 different respitory ailments: asthma, chronic inflammation and chronic infection. She doesn't do well with anti biotics either, almost lost her last Thursday. And because she has to have predlinesone everyday, I'm afraid I'll have another sugar baby on my hands. My vet thinks she may have lung cancer, an ex Ray revealed what appears to a tumor and due to her severe asthma, she's not a good surgery candidate, so we'll just have to see what happens.

I'm sorry to hear that things are so difficult for you with Wes, I really applaud your dedication to him! It does sound like you might need to go vet shopping. BMJ has in her signature notes, some good questions to ask when interviewing a new vet.

 

L-Lysine can be helpful in cats with feline herpes virus (chronic goop eyes and nose are part of that) The typical vet dose is 500 mg day. It comes in pet chews (ex Vetri lysine), powdered, in tablets, and capsules. If you want to try it, check online at places like Amazon or iHerb.

 

Hi Bonz,

Welcome to the board from a fellow Canuck! I'm in Toronto so not far away. I have some friends with pets up in your neck of the woods so if you like, I can see if any of them would recommend their vets although none of them have sugar kids so you'll still have to "interview" them to see if they are willing to work with you on your terms. I fully understand what you mean by not agreeing with the "close enough" mentality!

Your Wes sounds like a lovely boy. I have a civie (non-diabetic) 17 yr. old boy who I am pretty sure has some Maine Coon in him too! Love their gorgeous coats and mine has definitely got CATITUDE"!

We definitely have a very limited selection of food here compared to our friends in the US but quite honestly, I think you are underestimating the Fancy Feast. While there are a lot of varieties of FF I agree are essentially kitty crack and I would not dream of feeding to my little clowder, the Classic pate's are pretty close to an ancestral diet with no grain, vegetables or fruit added. I particularly like the Turkey and Giblets feast. Just food for thought as they can be fussy critters when they don't want to eat and sometimes a change will trigger a little more interest.

Have you had Wes checked for DKA lately? As Purrdydolly has said, this can be very dangerous and can show up out of the blue. I hope though that Wes is just feeling lousy because of the respiratory issues and can't smell his food well enough to find it appealing. The medication may also be making him feel off too but what concerns me is your comment that his eyesight might be failing? I really think a follow up trip to the vet would be a good idea to see what's up.

When you have checked his BG readings lately, what have they been? Is he running higher or lower than he was before this latest infection?

 

Hi Bonz, another fellow Canuck and I've also got a cat on Caninsulin. I was intrigued about your U100 syringe savings, and amused about dividing by 2.5 - I can tell you have the whole math thing under control!

I'm interested to know just when Wes hits peak, or lowest BG reading on Caninsulin. I know every cat is different but if you click on my spreadsheet link below, you can see that Genghis has run peak at +4 and also +6 - I was off this last week so did my own curve and was testing quite frequently so I could understand better how the insulin was working in Genghis' body.

I'm sorry the ear prick stresses Mr Wes - sounds like the poor fellow has been through a lot and you're an angel to take such good care of him. Your posts make me smile and I can tell your "puds" are very well-loved.

Sorry I can't offer much in the way of advice but wanted to say welcome and best wishes for Wes.

PS I also never dreamt of feeding my cats Fancy Feast either, but like MrWorfMen's Mom says, it's hard to find good quality, low carb food that's affordable up here. My girl went diabetic on the expensive dry food; thankfully, she gobbles up the FF (I have the classic Chicken pate, the liver & chicken and also the turkey - FYI if you have a Walmart close to you, you can get 10 cans for $6 - I just stocked up).

 

Thanks all! I've changed my opinion of Fancy Feast. It's the best option right now. Wes hit's his lows at about +4 to +6 hrs. I sat with him in my bathroom that has a large tiled shower. I set the hand shower to fog and petted him in a padded basket. He took off when i opened the door but he came back in for a few more wiffs of humid air. I'm pretty sure he knows its best. I also take a microfiber cloth and wet it with warm water. I wipe his face down and hold the warm wet cloth over his nose. he's getting to enjoy that.

We've been with the same vets for about 25 years but there really hasn't been any call for anything out of the ordinary. I called another vets office today to ask if they offered a broader treatment of feline diabetees. Current vet hasn't suggested or done a curve. I actually surprised them when I walked in with my notebook and glucometer in hand. One vet actually told me I could hurt Wes using U100 syringes. I old them I wasn't functionally illiterate and could understand the diff between 40 units per ml and 100.

I realized that I hadn't bought the keto Stix after I started using the dia stix. I had been on the Adkins diet so I do remember. Shouldn't the odour of ketones be unmistakeable? So far as urine testing we've tried to disolve freshly peed on litter in a small amount of water. Wessleigh acted as though he was starving when we went cold turkey on carbs and although I did notice he was not as ravenous i was hoping that was a natural progression. We also notice he's peeing even less now

2 questions if I may
Is there any form of decongestant usable for cats?
Are the Lycene chews readily available in Canada, I get the impression that the vets try and control as much as they can up here?

Thanks for now. I'm looking forward to reading any further comments, it looks as though my vet may be lacking more than somewhat.

 

Hi Bonzo, my civie, her name is Mouse (long story) suffers from asthma and chronic congestion. Several years ago, our vet at the time, said I could safely use Benadryl liquid allergy medicine. Mouse weighed about 8 pounds back then, and she said .02 ml twice a day would be safe. It did work for her for quite awhile.

That particular vet was in a car wreck and lost her sight completely, so sad. Mouse has a host of respitory issues and of all the things I've tried, I've found no golden pill.

 

Hi Bonz,

Not sure about the chewable tabs or if any of the Lysine is available at retailers here but I got this stuff at a vet's office. It's a gel like Femalt and easy to administer if they like the taste. I let mine lick it straight off the tube.

 

Only 2 of 3 ketone types are detectable by odor. If you have a cat prone to ketones, we recommend getting a blood ketone meter to use any time the glucose is high, the appetite is low, and there is a possibility of infection. Ketones show up in the urine, on the average, 5 days after they start showing up in the blood. Nova Max Plus and Precision Xtra are 2 ketone meters available in the US.

 

If you can't find the Viralys at a vet near you, it can be ordered through the Pet Pharmacy in Concord. Not sure what the shipping charges would be (depends on location) but something to consider when you are "nursing" an ailing little one.
Here's a link to their website page for the product. You can get it in powder form too.
http://thepetpharmacy.ca/product-list?title=viralys&title2=viralys

 

An important issue has just come up
Following Wessleigh's diagnosis with feline diabetes he developed a bout of upper repository infection and was sneezing mucous flecked with blood. as I had said I reported this to the vet and he used the one shot injectable antibiotic. The Convenia seemed to work for about 12 to 14 days, then the congestion came back with a vengeance . The vet then put him on Azithromycin 50mg once a day for 5 days then 1 capsule every other day for another 24 days (17 caps total). There is still 5 caps left. The past few days have seen Wes really struggling to breath so I tried to get him to breath in a steam tent and I've been using microfibre cloths wet in warm water to keep his face clean and try to keep his nasal passage hydrated.
The old fool caught on and started to enjoy the effect of the steam.
He just started sneezing again in the past hour, while this is a good thing that he can clear his sinuses, I'm concerned about the bloody mucous. I feel it's just a broken blood vessel caused by the powerful sneezes but I'm not a Vet. 2 issues here, the house will be contaminated and every piece of furniture will have that special Wessleigh polk a dot motif. If someone could pass an opinion here I'd appreciated it.

I think I'll be talking to the vet hospitals admin and most likely seeking other care. The first vet didn't understand as much as I did about feline diabetes, the second was great but is on vacation and my original vet from the past 20 years is a money grubbing $%#@ only interested in lucrative procedures. I tried to get in to see him and he is always booked for special procedures.

(I'm feeling I should transfer this thread but alas I'm not sure how)

 

Maybe it is a primary fungal infections and secondary bacteria infection. The antibiotics resolve the bacterial infection for the shot term but it returns because of the fungal infection. I would discuss that possibility with your vet.

 

To transfer your thread, go up to the top and highlight the URL. Copy it. Then go over to the Health forum, start a new thread and introduce yourself. Inside the new thread, link this thread by using the little chains in the third box over at the top. Choose the first chain. A box appears. Paste your URl inside.

That way, everyone there will have this whole thread to check out.

 

Hi Bonz,

When you mentioned that things seemed to be improving and then a relapse, this sounds like perhaps the antibiotics given were not the right ones to deal with whatever the infectious agent is. If Wes were my guy, I'd be asking for a culture of his mucus to see exactly what bacteria he is growing and have the medication geared to that specific organism. This happens all too often when broad spectrum antibiotics are given and there is one bacteria in the mix that isn't susceptible to that drug.

I know it's more tests and $$$ and a culture will take a couple of days, but better to get Wes on effective medication than to have him struggling any longer and you being a 24/7 nursemaid/cleanup crew for your buddy.

I too would be concerned about the blood in his mucus although your idea that it's just broken blood vessels is likely spot on or as Larry and the Kitties said, perhaps there is a fungal infection in the mix.

I wish I had some solution to help with the unwanted decorating this is doing to your furniture etc. All I can suggest is perhaps throwing a sheet or something over the furniture for now to avoid any permanent staining.

 

Have you gotten any l-Lysine yet?

 

I'm looking into the L-Lysine and will fully research the delivery method and taste options. If Wessleigh doesn't like it, it is extremely difficult to push something down his cake hole. Here in Canada some things are not openly sold (not always a bad thing). I believe it may only available through vets.

So far as infections and antibiotics the same rules apply to us beanz and I'm am personally acquainted with what can happen and what may be necessary. My last knee replacement wound up being a 3 month IV. They knew before the infection had actually developed because the hospital did a culture. Feline upper resp infection is known to be difficult. I visited a new veterinary clinic today and their attitudes seem more in tune with my needs. There fee set up is more reasonable (not a priority but nice) and they look at the broader spectrum so far as treatments are concerned. I may well be changing vets tomorrow.

One thing I have noticed about the snuffle-ufigus syndrome (upper resp) is cats don't like to eat what they can't taste or smell. The steam treatments help but I bought the stinkiest fancy feast and pre heated the bowl and food and viola I have a ravenous Wessleigh.

Since I stepped up the steam treatments the violent sneezing has subsided. I fed the puss, washed his face, paws and eyes, steamed him, petted him and had a brief conversation on world politics so it's time for bed (04:27)

 

L-Lysine is available as an over the counter supplement for humans and can be found in tablets, capsules of powder, or plain powder which may be added to food. I've some at home and it didn't have much taste to me.(cats have a different palate, of course!) There are some products specifically designed for cats and those are often over the counter, too, as the l-lysine is an amino acid (protein building block) and not a controlled substance.

 

I wound up getting the 100ml pump from my new vets. I realize it isn't a "controlled substance" but sometimes speciality items may as well be. I live an hour from Toronto and the choice in small towns isn't all that great. I've found the same to be true in some areas of the US as well. Wess won't allow just anything to be shoved down his "cake hole" which can be a royal pain. He likes the paste just fine. I just checked and the vet's price is less than amazon.ca. and a few pet etailers

The new veterinary clinic turned out to be my kind of place. Wes had a hectic day so I didn't push too much on him. I had a blood panel run and was reassured considerably. He's been poked and prodded non stop since the end of March

Everyone , down to the receptionist were all eager, exhibited common sense and appeared to be a well run team. The Vet was very thorough. We'll get Wess breathing ok and then tune his diabetic treatment

Thanks for all of your help

 

Hi Bonz,

It is ridiculous and frustrating how difficult it can be here in Canada, to get some of the products our US friends have easy access to. We also don't have nearly the online options for shopping and when we do, the shipping costs are usually so expensive it becomes a last ditch option. Pet foods are another area where the selection in the US is much better than ours and now our government is bringing in new import regulations that may further erode our meager selection.

My 17 yr. is also very fussy about what goes in his cake hole. He is on medication that I have been crushing and mixing with meat baby food. I ran out and have now been to 6 stores and none have the meat baby food. I have had to resort to making whipped cream for him for his last 2 doses. Not optimal by any means but we do what we have to do to keep our fur babies healthy up here. Today I guess I'll have to make some homemade baby food.

I'm so glad you found the supplement and a vet clinic willing to work with you so you can get Wes feeling better. It means so much to be dealing with a clinic where the staff demonstrate common sense which unfortunately seems to be all too uncommon these days.

Please keep us posted on Wes' progress.

 

Sounds good!

When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
general location (city and state/province)
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

 

Bonzo what lengths you go to for Wess! I am so glad you found a supportive team - it can make all the difference in the world especially when you have been up until the wee hours making sure his needs are attended to. You deserve kudos!!

I can echo your sentiments that common sense just isn't so common these days - sounds like these new folks have his treatment regimen in good order.

I'm getting used to the stinky Fancy Feast - ugh it's awful first thing in the morning isn't it? I am so glad Wess is eating it!

 

Any sneakies for getting the puss's to slurp their L Lycine. Wess gets far too much forced treatment and I'd like to make it feel like it's at least a voluntary thing even if it isn't. The wife's favorite comment is "he's only a Cat". Time will most likely sort it out but continually wrapping him in a towel and forcing the issue is counter to my usual practice. I was hoping to be able to treat the L Lycine as if it were a reward, It looks as though he likes it

I really can't complain about availability here in Canada. I generally stay away from the big box stores whenever possible

Thanks to every one for all of the helpful input.

 

Hi Bonz,

From your description of a 100ml container I take it your Lysine is in paste form. I am not familiar with that. Is it the consistency of toothpaste? If so, and Wes likes the taste, will he lick it off your finger? Or if he likes chicken or turkey, you could poach up a bit of meat and put the Lysine on meat pieces like an hors d'oeuvre and use that as a treat.

I'm not sure what if any smell it has (I really can't smell my gel form at all but maybe that's allergies) so adding it to something else Wes likes with more of a smell to cut through his congestion might help. Tuna, sardines, chunk salmon or smoked oysters come to mind.

 

L-lysine comes as cat treats, such as Vetri-lysine.
The powdered version doesn't seem to have much flavor to me, so maybe it could be mixed with a little very platable food to see if he'd just eat it.

 

Wess can be a PITA so rather than try and be frugal I bought something he might like out of the box . the product , Enisyl-F Oral paste for cats is $30 and comes with 2 sizes of syringe, a 1 and a 2 ml. The syringe plugs into the can and one pump fills the barrel. Wess loves the taste but hates the idea of me shoving a syringe in his cake hole. He laps the stuff up so he is just being a tool. The can should produce 100 doses (0.30 a dose) and has the consistency of a gel tooth paste. If I want to be frugal I can figure that one out later. I've found it isn't worth it to try an out wit a half wit, think what we might, the pussy cat usually wins.

I do like the idea Mr Worfmen's Mom floated, using the paste as a garnish on a Pussy Cat hors d'oeuvres but Wessleigh is a boor and would most likely pass wind or say something embarrassing. Seriously though, that is a good idea, last time I made some off the cuff vittles for the pudds, he lapped them right up

Wessleigh is definitely improving

 

Things are changing rapidly and anything I set up would be out of date almost immediately. I agree that a short and concise blurb would be a good idea but better left until I know what to write.

 

How about just this, which isn't likely to change much:
You cat's name
What you'd like us to call you
Insulin being used

Context is important for understanding what the numbers may suggest.