Ciara is wobbly onback legs

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Stella and Ciara, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Ciara has been on 1 and a half of caninsulin twice a day but today had none as she seemed wobbly on her back legs but i cant distinguish between the weak legs of diabetes and a hypo both seem the same so being too scared i gave no insulin today
    My vet has never told me to home test but i think i should do it as i cant see a vet at the weekend and its very worrying
    What is the best tester to buy and how easy is it to get blood from the ear?
    My vet will probably say i dont need to do this
    Thanks for any suggestion on where to buy it in the UK
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Maybe someone in the UK can recommend a meter there... Whatever you choose make sure it only needs a small 0.3 size sample. I'm glad you are going to home test. It's really the safest way to care for a diabetic cat. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
     
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  3. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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  4. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thank you so much
    Will watch your video
     
  5. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Just watched your video Janet thank you so much i am sure i will be able to do it and will feel happier about Ciaras safety then
    Can i just do it twice a day before injecting?
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is the basic testing routine we recommend:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your spreadsheet, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
    This is the spreadsheet we use to track BG data:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
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  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ideally you'll get at least three tests. Definitely get a preshot test, and whenever possible get a reading 4-6 hours after injection so you can see how low she goes. You can do it!
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Is kitty still wobbly or walking normally now?
     
  9. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    I gave her both injections today as i think its the diabetes causing her legs to be bad she is still bad
     
  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok then what you want to do is start her on b12 methylcobalamin supplements. Many of us use a brand available on amazon called zobaline. That, in conjunction with lower bg numbers, should help reverse the neuropathy.
    Zobaline™ (for Diabetic Cats) 3 mg x 60 tabs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008G3LI2M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_C1pvBbMABW69Z
     
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  11. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Thank you very much i am taking her back to vet tomorrow or ringing her in case i should just up my insulin dose
    If not i will get the tablets but difficult to make her take them
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    They crush in your fingers and you sprinkle them on the food. No flavor. Easy peasy. If you start testing at home and start a spreadsheet we can help with dosing.
     
  13. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    My test pack came but i have not yet started using it as at the moment her diabetes is not the biggest problem
    I saw my vet on Thursday as her walking was very bad the vet said it was not a hypo or a diabetes high number causing it her number was 16
    She thinks she had a mini stroke she is falling to the right but for over two years Ciara has had a growth in her right ear she has had two operations on this and the vet said the last one was not successful last Nov she could not get the growth out she did the first time so it may also be causing the balance problems.
    I am just praying she improves she is happy in herself and has gained weight and is eating quite well
    Has anyone experienced a stroke or balance problem like this in their cat?
    She can jump onto a chair fine but walking is not good.
     
  14. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    Oct 1, 2017
    I have not had this problem in a cat, but
    I took my hen to the vet with balance issues and weight loss. She had an ear infection. The ear infection cleared up with antibiotics and so did her balance issue and eating. Many months later she had the same syptoms again, so I called the vet and we gave her antibiotics again. This time, it did not improve so I took her back to the vet. He said the ear infection was completely cleared up, but that she probably had scar tissue affecting her in er ear and that it would be that way for the rest of her life. She walked around with her head nearly upside down and walked backwards, sideways, in circles. The vet said his mother had a stroke and it caused scar tissue that would never go away as well. She had balance problems and would stumble, fall, or just tip over. I guess it can happen in all species.

    My cat did experience symptom when her diabetes returned undetected after having been in remission. Her back legs were wobbly. She had trouble walking. She also has nystagmus, (jerky side to side eye movement). I had no insulin on had, so we rushed to ER. The symptoms subsided before the insulin injection. She tested negative for Ketones, thankfully. It occurred again during the first week back on insulin, only without the nystagmus and subsided within minutes of insulin injection. It’s been a month now and the symptoms have not returned, so one or even two episodes are not necessarily indicative of a permanent problem.

    The inner ear imbalance and the high blood glucose wobble were different. Both can be reversed, but it depends on whether there is scar tissue and damage in the case of inner ear problems and stroke, and whether the BG is controlled before Ketones can cause permanent damage.
     
  15. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Thank you Evie for your story about your hen
    Ciara has a growth in her ear canal the vet removed some of it 2 years ago but in Nov 2017 could not reach it when she tried again so she had an operation for nothing it is too late to refer her elsewhere now for a bigger op she said she is 15 and a half
    So i think that affects her balance she is not too bad today some days are worse than others
    She has been on antibiotics a lot this year for her ear and other things poor cat
    So sad about your little hen
    yes Ciaras back legs were wobbly from her diabetes in the beginning but this time the vet said its not that
    Glad your pussycat is better now
    Ciara is not too bad today but her number is high today as i managed to test for the first time it was 19.5
     
  16. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    I’m glad Ciara is having some better days. My vet said my hen was not in pain due to the inner ear scar that caused her imbalance. Once she got used to it, she was happy, eating and drinking and talkative. She did not seem stressed by the issue. It helps to know the are not necessarily in pain. They just think the rest of the world is cockeyed.

    Yes, thankfully Rusty can even jump up on and off chairs and to cat beds now. ❤️

    Hopefully with Ciara improving her BG level will help a lot too. It’s so much hard per when you can’t test frequently. You have to do a lot more guessing, which is stressful for you.
     
  17. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Glad Rusty is well
    I tested Ciara just before injection she was 23 so i have to keep an eye on her
    The maker of the meter said it would not be accurate for a cat
    I wonder how far out it might be
    Wish i had got a pet one now but thought this would be fine
     
  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I strongly encourage you to overcome that home testing barrier to keep your kitty safe. Many of us use a human meter instead of the vet-preferred pet meter. The vet meters will read higher than your human meter so Ciara's numbers would be very high on one of those.

    It's much less about the meter and much more about conquering the testing demon and being willing to use the spreadsheet we recommend here to track data and learn her responses to the insulin. I suspect that a lot of your worry stems from not knowing what's going on with her BG level and worrying about a hypo. Home testing solves that problem. Whether your vet agrees with or recommends home testing isn't an issue. You're Ciara's care giver and want to give her the best chance at feeling better. :)
     
  19. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thank you Chris i have started testing now but still not good at it
    She was 19.5 yesterday and 23 today so that would be awful on a pet meter scary

    I do not understand the spreadsheet at all or how the numbers work
    Thanks anyway
     
  20. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Stella, try reading the information in the link to understand how the spreadsheet works:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/
     
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  21. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    Wow, I thought the number you posted must have been something used in a foreign country. That’s scary low! I agree that the spreadsheet is intimidating and I used to do spreadsheets for a living. The abbreviations were the hardest for me. Here is a link to the definitions of those column titles: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

    You are short on time though and if you have to choose between the entering data on the spreadsheet and testing ore often, I’d choose testing. Before I found this group, I entered my own numbers on graph paper, with the time of day across the top and plotted the blood glucose values on the rows. It showed me what time of day the blood glucose was the highest and the lowest and I noted when I fed and when I gave insulin. It quickly showed me patterns. If you do not have time to create a graph or a spreadsheet, if you will write down what time you give insulin and the number of units and then what time you test and the numbers you get, I would be happy to create the spreadsheet for you and enter your data. If you don’t want to install google sheets, (the spreadsheet program for PC or app for ipad), I can just send you screen shots with the data entered for you to look at and I can upload it to the group if you want so they can look at it and help. You won’t have to do soreadsheets forever. You can do it for a while just tomsee what kind of effect the insulin and food are having on glucose and when. It will help you know how much to give and when and to time feeding, (unless Ciara is a grazer).
     
  22. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thank God i have still got my Ciara but she is very thin and back legs are very bad so i want to try the vit b
    What is the best one and where should i get it from
    Also i have run out of needles for tomorrow they should have come today but didnot
    Can i reuse todays needle for one shot tomorrow and miss the other
    Whats the best idea i have kept two old needles and put the little cover onto them
    Thanks for advice
    Not seeing vet much as she had different ideas to me
     
  23. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    Oct 1, 2017
    One problem of reusing an insulin needle is contaminating your vial of insulin. Another problem is that needles are not as smooth and sharp after use, so the injection will be uncomfortable. If you are planning on buying a new bottle of insulin right away, then contamination is not an issue and you can get away with it. It is risky though. Have the used needles been stored in the refrigerator?
     
  24. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    Most pharmacies, here in the USA will sell you needles at the counter, even just one or two. I don’t know what your time zone is though and you may be headng out to work now and have no chance of finding a needle, now or at your lunch break, or whatever today holds for you. Any veterinary hospital should also sell you a couple of insulin needles if you take in the container or a sample of what you are using. Or a friend or relative with diabetes? If you totally can’t get a fresh needle, yes you can reuse it, but you will need to replace your vial of insulin within a few days to be safe. You can also do a search in this forum of this topic - reusing needles - and see what others are doing.
     
  25. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Zobaline which is found on Amazon is a common b12 used
     
  26. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks Evie
    I just put the needles into the fridge now
    It is late Sat night here and nowhere to even ask for needles tomorrow as its Sunday and we dont have them in our chemist shops anyway or anywhere
    I am using vetpen
    Caninsulin insulin
    I am in UK

    Would it be better to totally miss the days insulin i wonder?
     
  27. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks Janet i will get that from amazon
     
  28. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    It is not available on UK amazon
     
  29. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    On the US one it says does not ship to UK
    It must have another name here
     
  30. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You can use ones intended for humans as long as it has no sugars. Make sure it's b12 methylcobalamin
     
  31. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    I have looked at several on amazon and chosen this one nutri ark
    its seems ok its tablets but i hope i could hide them in her food
    upload_2018-9-30_1-50-15.png
     
  32. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    I wonder what dose i could give a skinny cat though?
     
  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Any extra gets peed out. Zobaline contains 3 mg (3000 mcg) and says to give 1 a day. Maybe crush 1.5 tablets twice a day or 1 tablet 3 times a day since this one is 1000 mcg. Your cat doesn't have any kidney issues, right?
     
  34. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks Janet i dont thinks she has any kidney problems but she has not had that bloodtest sinceApril
     
  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok. If she had ckd I'd say just do one a day. But otherwise it's fine.
     
  36. John Irene and TITAN

    John Irene and TITAN Member

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    Stella, how is the testing going? It really is the key to getting your cat well again. 19 or 20mmol/l is too high on a human meter. What one are you using? You can buy them in Boots or Lloyds chemists, but you have probably done that already. So you need to get good at testing, it can be done, and everyone here does it. We bribe our TITAN with freeze dried chicken treats.
    To get dosing advice from people here you have to get the spreadsheet going, so everyone can see your results. I have seen one instance of a member offering to do it for a newbie who said he just couldn't manage. I messed it up once,but got there in the end. You can click on the link in my signature to see Titans spreadsheet.
    Wobbly back legs can be caused by high blood glucose over a long period. Titan is a bit wobbly the vet gave him a jab of vit B12, and we have bought some tablets to follow up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  37. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    I have not been testing as i felt she was too poorly but will try to do it
    I got a human meter from amazon she is often 24 on it before injection
    She is walking better but falls over a lot
    StartedB12 but only 1500 a day maybe i need to do two capsules
     
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I would strongly encourage you to get back into a good testing routine. It's the only way to know what's going on with Ciara.
     
  39. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    I will try i am just so nervous about it but thanks
     
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't hurt them.
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We all understand those nerves. You'll be amazed at how routine it all becomes fairly quickly and those nerves will diminish greatly. If you aren't testing often or at all and are anxious about it that anxiety looms very large.
     
  42. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Should i double the amount if B12 i am only giving 1500 a day one cspdule as thats what they sat to use for a human
    I am too scared to up it but she is no better
     
  43. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    You can double the dose if your capsules are only 1500 mcg. Zobaline contains 3000 mcg. of B12 and is given once daily. Any excess is simply excreted in the urine anyway so difficult if not impossible to overdose.
     
  44. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Thank you so very much for that
    Will do so
     
  45. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe do one in the morning and one in the evening.
     
  46. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Yes thats what i will do
    Thanks again
     
  47. georgecat

    georgecat New Member

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    May 22, 2018
    Don't get discouraged about taking over and regulating the insulin dosage and giving the B12 (methyl). It takes time and gets easier (for you) each day. Ciara would much rather have you take care of her than the vet. The neuropathy (wobbly back legs) will improve once the BG numbers are being managed. George had hind leg issues, at one point was dragging his hind legs (for a few weeks). He is so much better now, after several months. I give him B12 and D Mannose in soln. ( dissolve 1 tab and a scant 1/4 teaspoon of Mannose) in a tiny bit of water and give it to him in a syringe. You can mix it in the food also. The D Mannose (cranberry extract) is to prevent any UTI (urinary tract infection). He had blood in urine, hard time peeing or peeing anywhere. The cranberry works wonders.
     
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  48. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    I have been giving Ciara two b12 each day for a few weeks now but not much improvement in her legs so far
    Where can I get the other item please
    Thank you
    Stella
     
  49. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Can I get that mannose online and can I add it to her food some days she does not wee for ages other she wees oftener
     
  50. georgecat

    georgecat New Member

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    May 22, 2018
    It will take awhile for the neuropathy to heal... it took us several months and getting the BG in acceptable ranges (otherwise the body will break down the hind leg muscles for energy as
    it can't break down the sugar in the blood). I bought Mannose - D at Mothers Market, try any health food store. Yes you can buy it online. Some vets even sell it.
     
  51. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Mannose d seems to be in tablet form
    Is it capsules and if so how much would I give per day
     
  52. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    D
    Do you think Lantud insulin is much better for cats
     
  53. georgecat

    georgecat New Member

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    In case you haven't read this thread...it explains Neuropathy/ weak hind legs . http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/

    Mannose D comes in powder and tabs/capsules. I give about 1/4 teaspoon. this is not for neuropathy, rather for IBD issues.

    As far as which insulin is better for Ciara, hard to tell. It would be helpful for you to start up a spreadsheet and post it.
    There are lots of helpful threads in various forums here to guide you along the way.
    Once you start taking her BG numbers (a learning process but it gets easier within a day/days) and post data, it will be helpful for the experienced members here to guide you with dosing, etc and Ciara will be a much happier cat!
     
  54. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thanks
    I know I should test her often but took five goes before I got blood from her ear the other day so I only test about once a week which is oftener than my vet did before.
    I hate pestering the poor cat with that needle thing she does not like it
    I do need to order more of them too and the strips
    Will do that and see how I go but not sure I can do it
     
  55. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    I am doing well now testing thanks to help from Hazel she kept telling me to do it and messaging me for numbers so I had to do it lol
    I am quite good at it now my problem now is Ciara does not always want to eat before her injection but eats through the day
    She was 18.1 tonight but I have not given insulin yet as she is too sleepy waiting for her to eat first
     
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  56. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Which in
    Which insulin?

    It would be helpful if you could set up a signature. Click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, insulin type, food you're feeding and any other health concerns and medications. Then save.
     
  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Congratulations on doing the at home testing! She does need a meal onboard before you give Caninsulin because it can start acting quickly. Aside from that there's no reason not to let her graze freely through the day. It's best to remove all food in the two hours before you do a pre shot BG test.
     
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  58. Evie Corso

    Evie Corso Member

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    Soo glad to hear you are not intimidated about testing now! Kudos to Hazel for pestering you! I agree with Kris. Grazing is fine, but not in the few hours before the next meal and shot, if she won’t eat for you at shot time.
     
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  59. John Irene and TITAN

    John Irene and TITAN Member

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    Well done for getting on top of the testing!!!!
     
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  60. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Thank you all for your comments
     
  61. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Ciara wants food the minute she wakes she calls loudly for it so I have to give it then
    My testing is after that as I sometimes can’t get up early so she gets injection about 12 noon today it was 1.20 pm waiting for her to eat before it
    She had eaten at ten but that was before testing she would not like to be tested before her breakfast
    Difficult to jump the times around by two hours
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Is this what you did for your signature?

    • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
    • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
    • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
     
  63. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Apr 12, 2018
    Yes Kris that’s what I did but it kept telling me I had too many lines
     
  64. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Try not using the return key. Just separate your items with a "/" and keep it one stream of typing.
     
  65. Stella and Ciara

    Stella and Ciara Member

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    Thanks Kris that worked
     
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