Info UK INFORMATION (Food, Insulin, Vit B12, and other 'need to know' stuff)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Elizabeth and Bertie, May 5, 2015.

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  1. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Welcome, UK Member. :bighug:
    Please know that diabetes is treatable!
    With good care a diabetic cat can often live as long and as happily as a non-diabetic. What's more, quite a lot of cats have the potential to go into 'remission' from their diabetes and become diet-controlled diabetics.

    THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO KNOW AND DO FIRST...
    This is a long post, and let's face it, you may not read it all, ;). So I'll briefly summarize the most important things here, and you can read on further for more detail. Let's get started...

    1. MAKE A HYPO KIT.
    Hypo may never happen to your kitty, but it's wise to be prepared in case you need to raise blood glucose in a hurry. You'll need some liquid glucose, syrup, or honey. And it would be good to have some high carb food in gravy. Get a few little tins of Gourmet Gold 'in gravy' food. High carb palatable treats are good too, such as Webbox 'Lick-e-licious' salmon cat treats.
    Also make sure you have plenty of test strips for your glucose meter. You don't want to run out in an emergency. See further down the page for how to deal with hypos...

    2. TEST FOR KETONES. Get some ketone test strips from a pharmacy and test your kitty's pee on a regular basis. Anything above a 'trace' result is a reason to talk to your vet ASAP.

    3. LEARN TO HOMETEST BLOOD GLUCOSE. 'Hometesting' may sound a bit daunting at first, but it saves lives and makes managing diabetes so much easier. Most people can do it. And most cats can be tested. It shouldn't hurt them. And they'll still love you. Honestly.
    Most of us use ordinary glucose meters made for humans.

    4. FEED AN APPROPRIATE LOW CARB DIET. If your cat is already on insulin learn to hometest before switching to low carb. (You may need to reduce the insulin to avoid hypo...) If your kitty is waiting to go onto insulin you can switch to low carb first. There's a link to a low carb food list further down the page.

    5. DOES YOUR KITTY HAVE NEUROPATHY? (Weak back legs?). It's caused by nerve damage. Supplements of methyl B12 can really help with healing.

    6. THE 'THREE KEYS' TO MANAGING DIABETES. In a nutshell, the three main keys to optimal diabetes management are;
    Hometesting of cat's blood glucose
    Appropriate low carb diet
    Insulin

    OK, that's the summary over. Let's look at things in more detail... :bookworm:
    When dealing with diabetes 'knowledge is power'. So it's a good idea to spend some time learning how to best manage your cat's condition. Further down the page there's info on urine and blood testing, blood glucose levels, insulin types, diet and treats, obtaining supplies, glucose meters, and other miscellaneous info.

    URINE TESTING
    KETONES: It is advisable to monitor all newly diagnosed diabetic kitties for ketones; and also to check again whenever the kitty seems unwell or is off her food.
    Ketones, (created when the body breaks down fat for energy) are dangerous for diabetics, and can lead to a life-threatening condition called DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). Fortunately, testing for ketones is simple, and just involves dipping the end of a ketone test strip into a drop of pee, timing it, and reading off the result. Anything above a 'trace' result is considered to be a reason to talk to your vet, ASAP.
    Crumpling clingfilm loosely in the litter tray (over the litter) is often a good way to catch a pee sample.
    'Ketostix' or 'Keto-Diastix' should be available from most pharmacies. 'Ketostix' test only for ketones, 'Keto-Diastix' test for ketones and for urine glucose. (The latter may be useful if you are not testing your cat's blood glucose at home. But it doesn't give 'real time' information about your cat's blood glucose. It only shows you how much glucose your kitty is excreting in her urine since the last time she peed.)

    Note: Be aware that not all ketones are registered by the ketone test strips. If you notice that your kitty's breath smells fruity or like acetone this can also indicate ketones.

    If your kitty has had DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis), or has previously tested positive for ketones, then you may wish to invest in a ketone blood test meter. This is more accurate then the urine test strips. Some UK folks recommend the the 'On Call GK Dual' ketone meter, available from Amazon.

    Some helpful info on urine testing from the Sugarpet website:
    http://www.sugarpet.net/urine.html
    - - - - - - - -

    HOMETESTING BLOOD GLUCOSE
    FDMB strongly recommend 'hometesting' (testing your cat's blood glucose at home).
    Once learned, hometesting can quickly become completely routine. However, while some people (and their cats) take to it like proverbial 'ducks to water', others do find it a little harder to get the hang of at first. Be patient. You will 'get it'! And most cats come to be just fine with the process - especially if they are rewarded with treats... ;)
    In a nutshell, testing typically involves pricking the outer edge of your cat's ear to get a teensy weensy drop of blood, transferring that blood to a test strip in a glucose meter (the end of the test strip will suck up the drop of blood from the edge of your cat's ear), and reading off the result on your glucose meter. Then reward your cat with a treat or a cuddle. Job done!

    FRUCTOSAMINE TESTS - Your vet will probably have done a fructosamine test on your kitty as part of the process of diagnosing the diabetes. It is very useful for this. But, once a kitty is on insulin the fructosamine is far less useful and can even be misleading. That is because it only gives an indication of 'average' blood glucose levels over the preceding couple of weeks. But it shows no detail at all, so doesn't tell us about the highs and lows along the way. This is why hometesting blood glucose on a regular basis is SO important...

    Want to give hometesting a try? Great! Scroll down the page for information on glucose meters in the UK.
    And you can get lots of advice about testing on the main forum. Just ask.



    IMPORTANT BLOOD GLUCOSE INFO FOR NEWCOMERS

    For newcomers to feline diabetes it is generally recommended here that NO insulin is given if the blood glucose is below 11 mmol/L as measured on a human glucose meter.
    If you're using the Alphatrak meter you may want to raise that number a tad.
    If it is just a little too low you can wait for 20 - 30 minutes without feeding to see if the blood glucose comes up high enough to give the shot.
    This initial 'no shot' number of 11 mmol/L is just to try to give some buffer of safety while you're learning to hometest blood glucose, and learning how the insulin is working in your cat's body.
    Note: If your cat has had ketones different advice may apply. Ask on the forum if you need more info.

    The normal blood glucose range for a non-diabetic cat is considered here to be around 2.7 to 6.6 on a human meter, or 3.6 to 8.3 on a pet meter such as Alphatrak. The numbers you aim for will depend on the insulin you're using, your experience, and your own cat's response to insulin. You may or may not be able to aim for numbers toward the lower end of the normal range while using insulin. Safety is key!


    HYPOGLYCEMIA
    Numbers below 2.7 on a human meter, or 3.6 on an Alphatrak can be considered potentially hypoglycemic; and if you see these numbers, or your cat's blood glucose is dropping fast toward these numbers, appropriate action must be taken to keep your cat's blood glucose at a safe level.

    Your 'Hypo Kit'
    You may well never need this, but it is really useful to put together some supplies in case you do need to deal with hypo.
    It is vital to ensure you have some source of simple sugar available, such as honey or liquid glucose. It's also good to have some high carb food such as the Gourmet Gold ‘in gravy’ foods here: UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit. (Make sure you get the 'gravy' ones, the 'pate' ones are low carb.) The gravy is the most useful bit; you can squish the food down with a spoon and scoop the gravy up.
    The Webbox 'Lick-e-Lix' liquid treats are also good. They vary in carb content but the highest carb are the yoghurt ones, of which the Chicken and Salmon seem easiest to obtain.
    Also be sure that you have plenty of spare test strips for your glucose meter, and maybe a spare battery too.

    Note: Glucose or honey rubbed onto the gums is the fastest way to raise blood glucose in an emergency.

    Emergency HYPO INSTRUCTIONS ~ see link immediately below:
    How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

    If you think your cat’s blood glucose is dropping too low please post on the forum, or call your vet for advice.


    INSULINS IN THE UK - and other diabetic supplies:

    Your vet might prescribe an insulin made for animals, or one made for humans.
    The ISFM (International Society of Feline Medicine) and the UK's RVC both recommend the use of longer-lasting insulins, Prozinc, Lantus/glargine, or Levemir/detemir, over lente insulins such as Caninsulin for new cases of feline diabetes. (Of these, Prozinc is the only longer-lasting insulin actually licensed for cats in the UK.)
    For more on the ISFM's and the RVC's guidelines on managing feline diabetes, please scroll to the 'USEFUL REFERENCE' info toward the end of this post.

    There are two insulins licensed for cats in the UK, Caninsulin, and Prozinc. If it turns out that a veterinary insulin isn't controlling the diabetes sufficiently well your vet is able, by law, to prescribe a human alternative. However, some vets are unwilling to prescribe a human alternative. And, despite the UK guidelines that the first insulin prescribed should be one that is licensed for cats , a teensy weensy minority of vets (who prefer to use human insulins) will actually prescribe a human insulin as the first choice.
    Attitudes between vets vary a lot when it comes to prescribing insulin for your cat...

    VETERINARY INSULINS
    Caninsulin
    and Prozinc are the the most commonly prescribed insulins for cats in the UK.

    The RVC has said the current guidelines are that all newly diagnosed cases be prescribed Prozinc, the only long-lasting insulin in the UK currently licensed for cats.
    Cats who are currently on Caninsulin and who are not doing well on it may benefit from switching to Prozinc (or one of the human insulins, such as Lantus or Levemir).

    The RVC's research found that Prozinc can drop the blood glucose more slowly and last longer in the cat's system; thereby giving overall better glycaemic control than Caninsulin. This can lead to improved clinical signs, and an increased chance of remission. (Recent research has proved what some of us have long observed - that Prozinc has similar remission rates to the human insulin, Lantus.)
    Even so, many vets still seem to prescribe Caninsulin. Prozinc has only been available in the UK for a couple of years, and old prescribing habits seem slow to change. Caregivers may need to be pro-active in specifically asking their vet for Prozinc.

    SYRINGES
    Caninsulin and Prozinc are U40 insulins; that means they have 40 units of insulin per ml of liquid. They are used with corresponding U40 syringes.
    Syringes are usually far cheaper to buy online than from your vet. You could use the Caninsulin or Prozinc branded syringes, but many UK'ers use the generic U40 syringes as they are very much cheaper. However, these are all 0.5ml which, while the same size as the Caninsulin syringes, are larger than the (0.3ml) Prozinc syringes.
    There are some generics made by VetUK, and there are also 'Sol-Vet' syringes, which cost a little more. (Some UK folks consider that the Sol-Vet U40's have clearer markings and sharper needles):
    VetUK U40 syringes: https://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-...nsulin-syringe-with-needle-box-of-100-p-11335
    Sol-Vet U40 syringes: https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/sol-m-u40-insulin-caninsulin-syringes-0-5ml
    https://www.viovet.co.uk/SOL-V-Insu...u-bmMgyt3OomMGToKpkmtKE0G7ktXXvhoCklAQAvD_BwE

    For basic information on using, handling and storing Caninsulin and Prozinc see the FDMB info stickies in the Caninsulin and Prozinc subforums (links below). You can also post in these forums for advice specific to your insulin. But if you need help quickly please post in the main health forum.

    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
    Caninsulin/Vetsulin subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

    BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS
    Prozinc/PZI subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/


    HUMAN INSULINS
    If a veterinary insulin is not producing good results in your cat your vet can, by law, prescribe insulin that is made for humans, such as Lantus/glargine or Levemir. These insulins can often produce longer, flatter, blood glucose curves than the veterinary insulins.

    The human insulins - Lantus/glargine and Levemir are U100, and have 100 units of insulin per ml. They are used with the corresponding U100 syringes.
    Most UK'ers use BD U100 syringes with half unit markings ('BD microfine + demi' syringes). The cheapest place to buy them currently (July 2019) is online at Alldaypharmacy:
    http://www.alldaypharmacy.co.uk/products/BD-Micro%2dFine-Demi-0.3ml-Syringe-0.3mm-(30G)-x-8mm-Box-of-100.html

    For basic info on Lantus and Levemir see the info stickies on the Lantus and Levemir forum. And you can also post on this forum for advice specific to your insulin.
    Lantus and Levemir subforum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

    UK BLOOD GLUCOSE METERS
    You can use a glucose meter made for pets or one made for humans. Both are fine. They do however 'read' the blood glucose slightly differently. It's important to be aware of this.

    The most popular human meter for kitties in the UK currently (March 2020) seems to be the SD Codefree. This has a reputation for being the cheapest to use. However, there is now a new meter made by the same manufacturer, the Gluco Navii. The new meter appears to have a couple of advantages over the SD Codefree. It takes a smaller blood sample, and is advertised as having improved accuracy.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/GlucoNavii-Blood-Glucose-Monitor-Starter/dp/B082MP5XN5/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=sd biosensor gluconavii&qid=1583674045&s=drugstore&sr=1-4
    Other popular human meters include the Accu Chek meters, and the One Touch Verio meters.
    The most popular pet meter is the Alphatrak. This is a nice meter but probably the most expensive to use.

    The main cost of testing is the test strips
    . The SD Codefree is currently the cheapest meter to use. The Alphatrak is probably the most expensive.

    Pet meters, such as Alphatrak, usually give slightly higher readings than human meters, and may give readings closer to those that you would see at your vet's clinic. They are typically more expensive to use than human meters. The GlucoRx Vet meter, from Wellnostics, is a cheaper alternative to the Alphatrak.
    If you use a PET meter please let people here know this if you are asking for advice. And add that you are using a pet meter to your 'signature'.

    Human meters usually give slightly lower readings than pet meters. And they may give a reading slightly lower than your vet might get. They are usually cheaper to run (sometimes much cheaper) than pet meters such as Alphatrak. Most people here currently use human meters.

    Note: All of the insulin dosing protocols used here were devised using data from human glucose meters. So an adjustment will need to be made if you are using a pet meter.
    - - - - - - -

    WHAT TO FEED A DIABETIC CAT?
    FDMB recommends that diabetic cats eat wet/canned/raw foods that have less than 10% calories from carbohydrates. (And some cats do best on carb levels in the region of 4% - 6%.). See below for a list of low carb UK foods.
    If your cat has other health issues, for example kidney disease, IBD, or pancreatitis, this may further affect your food choices.

    A note of caution about switching to a low carb diet...
    If your cat is already on insulin and is currently eating a higher carb food then we recommend that you only transition to lower carb food if you can hometest (test your cat’s blood glucose at home) and are able to monitor the effect of the change on your cat’s blood glucose.
    That’s because lowering the carb content of the diet can greatly reduce your cat’s blood glucose level, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced accordingly.
    Too much insulin can cause hypoglycaemia.

    If your cat has not yet started on insulin this is the perfect time to transition safely to low carb wet food. Be sure that your cat's blood glucose is properly tested after the diet change, so that any reduction in blood glucose can be taken into account when deciding the insulin dosage.

    POPULAR FOODS
    Current favourites (July 2020) include: Nature's Menu, Butcher’s Classic, Sheba 'fine flakes', Lily’s Kitchen, Thrive complete; and from Zooplus: Smilla, Granatapet, Catz Finefood, Feringa, Macs, Animonda. (For more details on these foods click on 'UK Food List' link below.)

    POPULAR ONLINE SUPPLIERS include: Zooplus http://www.zooplus.co.uk/; Bitiba http://www.bitiba.co.uk/; Nature’s Menu http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/; Fetch (offshoot of Ocado): https://fetch.co.uk/

    UK FOOD LIST <<< click on link for a long list of foods
    Note: Be aware that some apparently low carb foods might still spike your cat's blood glucose levels. There are a number of possible reasons for this, but it may be due to a food intolerance (not uncommon).
    Sometimes, finding out what works for your cat will be a matter of 'trial and error'.


    LOW CARB CAT TREATS/REWARDS
    Many of the most popular commercial cat treats are laden with carbohydrates. Avoid if possible. :stop:
    Try to stick with treats that are entirely made from meat or fish. These are the lowest in carbohydrate.
    Popular freeze dried treats include; Thrive, Pet Munchies, HiLife 100% meat, Wilko freeze dried treats, Orijen freeze dried treats, Iams 'naturally' pure meat treats. Also from Zooplus; Zoolove 'cat snacks', Cosma snackies (avoid the Cosma ‘Thai’ treats as these contain rice.), Wild Freedom lamb lung or chicken hearts (chicken hearts are a great source of taurine too!), Purizon cat snacks.

    Another option is the semi-moist treats, often in stick form. These tend to be a bit higher in carbohydrate but should still be below 10% cals from carbs (often below 5%). Nature's Menu 95% meat treats, Waitrose 7 deli snack sticks, Tesco cat sticks, Asda tiger '6 Stix', Webbox 'tasty sticks'. And from Zooplus, Feringa meat/fish cat sticks, Feringa fish snacks, Tigeria cat sticks, Catessy cat sticks, Sanabelle tasty treats.

    Little pieces of plainly cooked or raw meat, or cooked fish, also make good treats. And some cats like a tiny piece of cheese or a lick of plain unsweetened yoghurt.


    Treats to hide tablets in - and make pill-giving easier;
    Nature's Menu soft 95% meat treats seem to be really good for this. Break off a piece, flatten, and mould around the pill. (If you find the treats too stiff or dry, just moisten with a touch of water.) Then follow with a couple of pieces of treat that have no pill inside to leave the cat on a 'happy' :rolleyes:.

    Tasty toppings to encourage kitty to eat:
    A sprinkle of something yummy on top of food can help transition a kitty to low carb wet foods, and can help to tempt a jaded appetite. Crushed freeze dried cat treats are really good for this (especially dried liver treats). Other options include a little bit of grated cheese, Engevita yeast flakes, and 'Fortiflora' probiotic.


    DRY FOOD

    We do not recommend dry food for cats.
    Firstly, almost all dry foods are far too high in carbohydrate. Secondly, dry foods are....um.....'dry'. Cats have a low thirst drive and may not get all the water they need on a dry diet.
    However, some cats come here 'addicted' to dry foods, and it can take time to transition them to low carb wet. In the meantime, it may be possible to transition them to a dry food that is lower in carbs than the one the kitty is currently eating.
    There are also some cats who seem determined to only eat dry food despite their caregiver's best efforts to convert them to wet. So these foods may also be suitable for these kitties.

    There are currently (May 2020) three dry kibble foods in the UK that are relatively low in carbohydrates (close to 10% cals from carbs or a bit above). These are: Porta 21 Sensible 'grain free' from Zooplus, and Thrive premium plus ('chicken' and 'chicken & turkey' flavours - NOT the fish flavour..)

    There is also Ziwi Peak air-dried cat food which is less than 10% calories from carbs. This is really dried meat with nutritional additives, so the texture is not like that of regular kibble.

    Be aware that, if switching to a lower carb food - even if that food is dry - it is still important to be monitoring the cat's blood glucose at home and reducing the insulin dose if necessary in order to avoid hypoglycemia.


    'CONVALESCENCE' FOODS - For when an older or sick kitty needs a little extra support.
    Liquivite is a liquid food for cats. The consistency is a bit like thick chicken soup. Many cats find it very palatable, especially if warmed. It is low in carbohydrates, and phosphorous, but also fairly low in calories. Very useful for helping kitties to stay nourished and hydrated. For more info see here: http://www.liquivite.co.uk/
    Gourmet Gold pates are quite high in calories have been used by some folks for getting extra calories into kitties, or for 'syringe feeding'. The food is smooth and quite easily mixed with water to make it into a good consistency for syringing. Miamor pates from Zooplus and Little Big Paw would probably do a similar job.


    Ingredients to avoid feeding my cat?
    Some things you may wish to be aware of:
    Cats with CRF/CKD may wish to avoid cranberry (acidifying) and dandelion (diuretic) . Thanks to Critter Mom for raising awareness of this.
    More info on this can be found on the Tanya CRF website:
    http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#cautions
    Allergies/intolerances: Beef, fish/salmon, chicken, grain and soya seem to be most common.
    Carageenan has been observed to affect some kitties. (And carageenan is known to be an inflammatory agent.)
    'Vegetable protein extract' is used in a number of cat foods and has been found to raise blood glucose in a minority of kitties, sometimes quite dramatically. ('VPE' may be made from soya or other vegetable protein). Felix 'As Good As It Looks' seems, historically, to have been the main culprit in this regard, but there are newer foods that also list this in their ingredients.
    Soya: Some folks choose to avoid this because of a possible link to thryoid problems. Dr Lisa Pierson of catinfo.org says;
    "Note that there is a negative relationship between soy and thyroid health. Given how common hyperthyroidism is in cats, I will not feed soy to any cat in my care.”
    www.catinfo.org
    - - - - - - -

    OTHER GENERAL INFO

    METHYL B12 FOR DIABETIC NEUROPATHY (weak back legs)
    Back leg weakness is fairly common in newly diagnosed diabetics and those who remain in high blood glucose levels. This can resolve entirely! Many people have found that supplementing methyl B12 (methylcobalamin) helps speed the healing process. (Although some cats will not recover completely unless they get into a healthier blood glucose range.)

    People in the US often use a methyl B12 supplement called 'Zobaline' specifically made for cats. And UK folks used to use that also, but it has now become expensive to import.
    One alternative is to use 'Dr's Best fully active B12' methylcobalamin. To equal the 3mg Zobaline dose you will need two of the Dr's Best capsules. Zobaline also contains a small amount of folic acid. And if you want to copy the Zobaline formula you can add the folic acid also. One drop of 'BioCare Vitasorb Folic Acid' liquid should contain the 200 mcg necessary (but check the product details beforehand to be sure).

    'Bodykind' is one place where both supplements are available:
    Folic acid: https://www.bodykind.com/product/81...id-folic-acid-15ml.aspx#ctl00_cpBody_contents
    Dr's Best B12: https://www.bodykind.com/product/4749-best-fully-active-b12-60-x-1500mcg-vegicaps.aspx?Referer=Froogle_Best-Fully-Active-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=price comparison&utm_campaign=Best-Fully-Active-B12-60-x-1500mcg-Vegicaps&gclid=CjwKEAjwps2_BRC5jduHor-h8xESJADGT-Lt7IdposUdW87VD_9f6kVU9lGGBcs984M-fsFHOpJdkxoCP3Tw_wcB#ctl00_cpBody_contents

    Methylcobalamin has no discernable taste, so can mix easily into a little bit of the cat's food. :cat:

    POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY - another possible cause of leg weakness...
    Some diabetic kitties can also become low on potassium, especially if they are peeing a lot. A blood test will be needed to see if the cat's potassium levels are low. If low, potassium can be supplemented. But this must be done carefully, under the guidance of your vet.



    CARB CALCULATORS - calculating 'percentage of calories from carbs'
    If you're considering a food that isn't on the food list, or the food you've bought seems to have different data to that same food on the list, then you can easily calculate the percentage of calories from carbs yourself. You just need to look at the label and get the %'s for protein, fat, ash, fibre, and moisture. Then you can use either of these calculators.
    Online calculator from 'Balance IT':
    https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/index.php?

    Calculator created by FDMB member 'Hellolucy':If you click on the link below you can open with Google sheets and save a copy for your own use.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view

    DRY MATTER CALCULATOR
    http://fnae.org/dmb.html?inputboxm=77&inputboxi=1.7&button.x=75&button.y=21&button=Click
    Some things are best compared on a dry matter basis; phosphorous for example (for cats with kidney disease.) This 'dry matter calculator' is a useful tool for this; and could also be useful for comparing fat content (especially for those pancreatitis kitties who’ve been found to benefit from lower fat intake).

    GETTING SUPPORT
    UK Feline Diabetes Support Group (Facebook).
    This is a really friendly and helpful little community of UK folks with diabetic kitties. It is a great place to chat (and occasionally laugh) with other UK folks, or to find the latest info on food and/or supplies in the UK, or to get advice/support with injecting, or with testing blood glucose.
    Note: The group is completely independent and is not directly affiliated to any other group.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/196780940826285

    USEFUL REFERENCE INFORMATION ON MANAGING FELINE DIABETES
    The full international ISFM guidelines on managing feline diabetes are here:
    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X15571880

    UK-specific info from the Royal Veterinary College is here: 'Guide to feline diabetes. Diagnosis and treatment guidelines of the RVC Diabetic Remission Clinic'.
    https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-animal/documents/feline-diabetes-guide.pdf


    GETTING A CAT USED TO INJECTIONS OR HOMETESTING
    Many cats are fine from the outset with insulin injections and/or hometesting. Establishing a routine, and the use of rewards, can help a lot. Many people will just give the cat her insulin injection while she's eating a meal, for example, and all is fine.
    But for some sensitive cats it can be helpful to deliberately build positive associations to make the process easier and more comfortable, even 'pleasurable'...
    For cats who enjoy food or treats it's possible to use the pleasure association of food to make the injections easier. This really good little video shows the principles of 'desensitisation and counter-conditioning':





     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
    Reason for edit: Adding RVC info
  2. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    @Elizabeth and Bertie this is a really fantastic resource that you have drawn up for us UKers. It must have taken you a fair while to draw it all together and I for one and very thankful that you done this.

    Thank you very much :bighug:
     
  3. Amy Dobson

    Amy Dobson Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2015
    Awesome, what fantastic resources! Thank you from me and Murphy too!
     
    Oksana and Elizabeth and Bertie like this.
  4. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    @Elizabeth and Bertie
    Just came across this thread of yours, some fantastic links, will be a godsend when placing my next food order with zooplus for George.
    Thank you for taking the time to put this together.

    ps George and I live in Spain now, we moved from Camberley, not a million miles from you and Bertie.:cat::cat::cat:
     
  5. Sushi The Cat

    Sushi The Cat Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    @Elizabeth and Bertie
    This is precious, Elizabeth!! I can't thank you enough!! Particularly for the dry food, since my cat is giving us a hard time after a couple of months on exclusive wet... He now refuses it...
    But thanks to you I am already on the hunt for Ziwipeaks! It won't hurt to try!!

    Lots of love and thank yous!
    Sara
    :bighug:
     
  6. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Bumping up this post for any new UK members...
    .
     
  7. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    @Elizabeth and Bertie

    Eliz, now that things with Murinka have calmed down a bit, I continue to do my research as far as food is concerned. Your list is super great, unfortunately the composition of the same product sold in my country slightly differs and some time even more than slightly.
    I am still testing what she likes to eat, I have to find more sorts of food because she can get easily bored with just one type ...

    Would you be please so nice and let me know what formula did you use to calculate your list? I googled something but sometimes I get the same result and sometimes not. I think I will have to build up my own list specific for the Czech republic which Im of course willing to share if someone else from this part of the country appears here:)
    This great tool http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html often gives N/A values :(
    The formula I somehow figured out but not sure is correct: 100 - (%protein+fat+fiber+moisture+ash) = %carb but I want to now % calories from carb. I found somewhere that 1g of carbs means cca 4 cal. My question is: analytic analysis refers to what quantity of food? If I read analytic analysis on the etiquette, it means analytic analysis of 100 g or does it refer to the actual weight of the pouch (sometimes 85g ..) Maybe it's crystal clear but I simply can't figure it out:confused:.

    Thank you!
    Helena
     
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  8. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Helena @Helena & Murinka ,

    The formula I use calculates the 'percentage of calories that come from carbohydrates'. That's the comparison figure we usually use here.
    It is a similar formula to the online Scheyderweb calculator, but also has a tiny extra calculation at the end.

    The formula is this
    First add up the food %'s for protein, fat, fibre, ash and moisture. And deduct that from 100%. That will give you the percentage of carbs by weight.

    Then you calculate the calories:
    Protein x 3.5 = ?
    Fat x 8.5 = ?
    Carb x 3.5 = ?
    And add up those results. That gives the 'total calories per 100g' of food.

    Finally, to get the 'percentage of calories from carbs' you do this.
    Divide the 'number of calories from carbs per 100g' by the 'total calories per 100g', and then multiply by 100. That figure should be the 'percentage of calories from carbs.

    I do have a rather ancient Excel spreadsheet that does my calculations for me. And I will gladly email it to you. Just PM me your email address if you'd like it. :)

    (Alternatively, you can use the Scheyderweb online calculator to get the nutrient values per 100g of food, and then just do the last calculation above.)

    Oh, do aware that sometimes the food labelling is wonky. If protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture add up to more than 100% the calculation won't work...

    Helena, which foods are labelled differently to the UK foods? Maybe the formula has just been updated and I need to update that on my list...

    Eliz
     
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  9. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Helena!

    I see Murinka has a 3.7!!! :D
    .
     
  10. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Eliz, thanks a lot, it would be great to have your excel sheet, I will PM you.

    Re the different composition, I checked once again (MAC's pouches concretely) and it looks like I was mistaken, the composition looks the same but the problem is that often the food has different names here and it's difficult to find out whether it is actually really the same.
     
  11. herman_and_weasel

    herman_and_weasel New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2016
    This is such a great resource. I was trying to find out what to feed Herman, my bengal cat, who has a super-complex medical history. He is on prozinc twice a day (I also check his sugars twice a day). I have been feeding him Hills m/d, but I think my vet will promote products they stock in-house, so was trying to find alternatives.
     
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  12. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Just for your info there is a company called Bitiba.co.uk that although seem to be under the same umbrella as Zooplus, are selling their pet supplies at a slightly less cost ..... the only difference seems to be that their minimum order is £39 and not £29 as is the case with Zooplus. Delivery was just as prompt.
     
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  13. Helena & Murinka

    Helena & Murinka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Eliz, I come back to my impression that the composition of some food may vary from country to country.

    I found that Sheba Fine Flakes might have a bit different composition in countries like Germany, Austria or Czech republic where it's called Delicatesse in Gelee, than in UK.
    Well Im not 100% sure that it's the same product but I believe so.
    Here's the link to the UK site https://www.uk.sheba.com/products/favourites/fines-flakes-in-jelly-poultry-collection-12x85g-pouch
    Here's the link to the German site of the product https://www.sheba.de/produkte/genus...gelee-geflugel-variation-8x85g-portionsbeutel

    And unfortunately according to the UK site, it looks that they changed a bit the composition in comparison to your list as well :(
    Why manufacturers just can't stick to their composition?!
     
  14. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Helena,
    Thanks for that info. :)

    Yes, that would make life a lot easier for us!
    Mogs @Critter Mom sent me a message to say that the UK formula has changed. So I need to look into that and update the info on the UK list. Will try to do that today if possible.... :bighug:

    Eliz
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Eliz - there's a mismatch between the as fed analysis on the website and the values on the actual packs for the new version of Sheba in the UK.

    Sorry I can't be of more help with this right now; it's too painful. Very bad times here.


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Oh, thanks for that Mogs.

    And please know that we're holding you very tightly in our hearts... :bighug::bighug::bighug: xxx
    .
     
  17. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Bit of a heads up, Lily's Kitchen refreshed their whole cat range in September. WARNING: they haven't flushed through the supply chain yet!

    It seems that carbs have come down across the board (please do not take my advice here - but my amateur sleuthing based on the website figures suggest that even the non-organic range now fits the bill except Lamb?) and the big tins have been discontinued.

    Edit: marketing release - http://www.lilyskitchen.co.uk/compl...e=Facebook&utm_medium=Sophie&utm_campaign=Cat

    Edit x2: I wonder if one can tell by the new heart-shaped packaging?
     
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  18. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thank you for this info! :bighug:
    And yes, things seem to be in a state of flux with LK at the moment (I'll rather miss those large tins....:rolleyes:)... Will update the list with the new foods shortly (and also update/add some other foods too....) x
    .
     
  19. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Just had a delivery - Organic Chicken Dinner (changed recipe by the looks of it).

    Coming out at 0% carbs. Protein - 9.5%, Fat 6%, Ash 2.2%, Fibres 0.3%, Moisture 82%.

    Not sure much change in terms of the ingredients - it's still chicken 30%, Pork 12%, Beef 10%, Fish 4%, Carrots and Minerals.

    Oh here's a big change - 85g trays now instead of 100g!
     
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  20. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Sky loves Lily's Kitchen so that may be my food of choice for her now. The food list is a really good resource so thanks for putting it together :)
     
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  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Watch out for Lily's Kitchen foods that contain carrageenan (it's an inflammatory agent).


    Mogs
    .
     
  22. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Thanks Critter Mom - didn't realise that. It's an absolute minefield!
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    And then some. I bitterly regret taking vets' word for what was good to feed my little ones instead of educating myself about cat nutrition. When one starts looking at what goes into some foods it makes one's heart sink (and many Rx foods are some of the worst offenders).


    Mogs
    .
     
  24. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Great info about foods.
    I still make my own and somehow resist commercial food for Rocky. After doing it for so long I find it easy although I have to admit that it requires a lot of planning.
    So I buy mince turkey thigh (it is the cheapest meat), sometimes lamb or beef and often we have wild meat, add to it specially prepared egg shell powder and a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar which helps with absorption of calcium, add taurine supplement, vitamin B complex, various oils or fats, egg yolk, some herbs and a little bit of psyllium husk powder. In addition to that I give Rocky fresh offal like kidney, liver and heart (from wild rabbit and pheasant etc) often as I freeze small portions. I make a batch for a week, freeze daily portions and make little portions in the ice cube tray and freeze them to be used as feed at night dispensed frozen in an automated feeder so by the time he needs to eat his midnight meal it is defrosted but not spoiled.
    Somehow in my head I have the idea that raw food is best. Of course sometimes I worry about bacteria contamination. But if we consider what they eat in the wild - there is more bacteria there, many times I found just a remain of a mouse or bird with the rest being consumed by Rocky.
    I remember my discussion with the vet about cat's diet - she insisted that I feed him dry diabetic so I asked her to show me the ingredients. I told her that wheat, corn, soy and vegetable protein has no place in cat's diet and firmly refused to buy prescription food. She kept saying she had good results with that food! Over my body, I want best for Rocky.
    If somebody does make their own food could you please share your ideas.

    Marlena:cat:
     
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  25. Sootyca

    Sootyca Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    I tried to switch my two to raw food but they were having none of it! I think if I have any kittens in the future I will have them on raw.

    Nearly got caught out buying treats today - was going to buy the Festive treats by Lily's kitchen. Looking at ingredients is now becoming second nature. Was very surprised that potato was listed as the highest ingredient! They went back on the shelf.

    Sky doesn't really like treats but I want to give her something to act as a reward for when she has her bloods taken - she really doesn't like it (not helped by the fact that she isn't bleeding easily so has to be done multiple times).
     
  26. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    I think I'm incredibly lucky with Rocky when it comes to food. He eats absolutely everything and never refused any food so switching him to raw was no problem at all! But I do hear about difficulties others have and there are cats which are finicky eaters - very difficult.
    For treats I often use cooked shrimps! They are quite convenient because you keep them in the freezer and take one or two when needed, you can run one under tap hot water and you have a treat! Cooked chicken is good too (you can also keep small pieces frozen and take one when needed) or Nature's Menu has good treats but they are a bit smelly.
    With regards to blood testing I find the only way I can get blood from Rocky is to use a small plastic bottle filled with very warm water and massage his ear with it for about a minute. My vet just lance without warming the ear but then she has to squeeze the ear to get some blood but when I try this Rocky is not happy.
     
  27. Max99

    Max99 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Thank you for this information and links! My cat has always been on dry food (she has hypoallergenic food) and I didn't know about cats having a low thirst drive. I'm going to ask the vet next time I go about possibly swapping to another food.
     
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  28. Max99

    Max99 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Hello,

    I have to prick my cat a few times also before enough blood comes out to take the test. I don't know if she'll like treats but I've always been under the impression she can't have them (before being diabetic) as she has food and skin allergies. She does love being brushed though, so today I started brushing her just after I'd taken a glucose sample. I'm hoping this will help with her. Would this be something that may help with your cat Sky if she doesn't respond to the treats?
     
  29. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I use these for treats, http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/...a_cat_snacks/cosma_snacks_single_tubes/283431

    They have no additives, preservatives, 100% meat, they are either chicken/rabbit/fish/tuna. Depending on what your kitty is allergic to, they may not be a problem.
     
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  30. jroyston

    jroyston New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Thank you so much for all that work you`ve done ! I`ve had so much trouble getting my cat to eat the "regular" diabetic food/pate/dietary food. He`s been on a diet for about 9 months now and the carb details aren`t explained on the boxes nor packs. Or at least not so I can translate them. Now he will be able to get some tasty food and, hopefully, I will be able to get his weight down. I`ve had so much trouble finding out the details and info you have provided! Thank you again!
     
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  31. Fiona1

    Fiona1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2018
    Thanks so much! Just done 2 big orders online :)
     
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  32. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Original post updated to remove some out of date info; and to include some basic info on UK insulins and other supplies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  33. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Maybe this is useful. Since HappyKitty closed down, I've found another website where you can order MAC's heart and liver + lamb and turkey. The latter is the favourite with my cat. Zooplus has other MAC flavours but not these ones. Also, the price on this website is better than it was on HappyKitty and Zooplus. https://www.zoo-bio.co.uk/
     
  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thanks for that suggestion, Iryna. :bighug:
    Looks like Zoo-bio have quite a few foods that aren't available on Zooplus. Will start doing some carb calculations and see if there are other foods that we can add to the list.

    Eliz x
     
  35. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    @Elizabeth and Bertie @Jill & Alex (GA) Could this information be made into a sticky so that the information could be found more easily? It would be so helpful to refer new members from the UK to all this, and also to inform present UK members of resources they may not be aware of.
     
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  36. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    More stickys aren't going to happen. Robert prefers us to add info to existing stickys or add as articles in the Health Links/FAQ section of the message board.

    That said, this same info has been available since 2015 in the INDEX: Health Links/FAQs ----> scroll down to the "Food/Feeding" section ----> UK Diabetic Cat Food (includes some supplies) and UK Cat Food List.

    However, in an effort to make it more visible, I could add add a section for country-specific information to the INDEX: Health Links/FAQs and then rename and link the UK Diabetic Cat Food List to something like "UK Diabetic Food List, Insulin, and Supplies". This would allow a space for the same to be done for other countries if someone wants to tackle the project.

    What do you think? Or do you have a better idea?
     
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  37. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Thanks very much for the response, Jill. I don't have a better idea, and I guess I missed or forgot about the UK section in the FAQs, sorry about that. I do think that it might be helpful if you did change the name from UK Diabetic Cat Food List to UK Diabetic Food List, Insulin, and Supplies, since it provides more info than food. That is an excellent idea. Then, as you said, it would allow space for other countries, if/when a similar project went forward.
    There is so much wonderful information here on the board, sometimes I really have to look to see where I read that information. I probably need to just pretend I am brand new again and start over, then do it again and again.
     
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  38. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Finding info has been a problem which is why I made a rough working copy of an Index in the Health Links/FAQs Forum. I thought it might help members find general info. It still needs a lot of work. Hoping to fine tune it this Fall.
     
  39. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Just a thought a lot of the info is useful for other eurEuroE members, I get stocks from UK as I've not been able to find them here in Spain. I direct our European members to relevant sites when I see them having trouble getting hold of stuff, they don't often think to look under the UK list. Perhaps there could be some way of highlighting that the info found here may also be useful to them?
     
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  40. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Thanks so much for this information, we had our SS calculating the Wet and Dry carb % as per the Scheyderweb calculator, but hadn't realised the need to then apply those multipliers to the values and do the rest of the calculations!
    All fixed up now, and quite surprised / shocked by the results of the food that we have been feeding our Dusty!
     
  41. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Hi all, we are new to the FDMB, and being from the UK thought we'd drop in to say hi :)

    We would like to get Dusty some B12 to help with her hind-leg weakness (suspect caused by high BG for prolonged period), and wondered where other UK folks sourced it?
    She's had one shot at the vets (at my request) but we don't really want to be taking her there every time for it, and we would be happy to do it at home (after all, we're already having to do insulin anyway!)
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
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  42. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Thanks for that question, Schmill (which I think has since been answered in another thread?). Because of your question I've now added some info on B12 to the first post in this thread to make it easier for other UK folks to find.
     
  43. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Hi.
    Just a question about human glucose monitors.
    My cat sox has just recently been diagnosed and have a freestyle freedom lite glucose monitor at home (had 2 readings so far one of 18.8 and 12.4 over 2days) and just wondering if this monitor is adiquade to use.
    Thank you for any information you can give.
     
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  44. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Becki. Welcome! I’m sure your meter is fine. Just be aware that human meters will read a bit lower than a pet specific meter. Most of us use them though because pet meter test strips are way too expensive! Please come and start your own thread so we can better explain and answer any other questions you may have
     
  45. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Thank you I will do. How do you start a new thread?
     
  46. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
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  47. SONICsteff

    SONICsteff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Hey!

    Our old man, who’s 14 in March, has just been diagnosed with diabetes. We’ve been given his insulin and injections, but we’ve also been given some Hills m/d dry and wet food for him.

    He’s been on Lily’s Kitchen and Thrive for the past two weeks and I see they rank well on the food list for low carbs, am I okay to just continue with his current healthier and cheaper diet, as opposed to starting him on then wheat filled Hills stuff?

    Any advice for a new Feline Diabetes Mum would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks.
     
  48. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    If there a low carb food it should be fine for you to continue with them.
    My vet tried to recommend the Purina special diet from them but I feed mine the butcher's tinned food as it's around 7% carbs and started insulin in November and just had 2 weeks with out insulin and staying fine on just the food.
     
  49. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Hi! You really don't need special prescription food to treat a diabetic cat, in fact shop-bought brands are often lower in carbs and therefore more appropriate. Vets are under pressure to sell prescription foods as they (probably) get a percentage of profits from the company, but Lily's Kitchen or Thrive are good bets. There are plenty of other options too, from supermarkets, pet superstores or online suppliers that you can buy from, as per the list.

    So yes, I'd continue with the existing diet and ask the vet to take the Hill's back for a refund. Good decision!
     
  50. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi, are you testing your kitty's blood glucose at home? For a kitty already on insulin it's really important to only switch to lower carb diet if you are hometesting, can monitor the effect of the diet change on the kitty's blood glucose, and can reduce the insulin as necessary.
    Reducing the carb content in the diet can reduce the blood glucose a lot in some kitties, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced also so as to avoid hypoglycemia. For a cat switching from dry food to low carb wet food the insulin dose may need to be reduced by one to two units, or even more...

    If you've switched from Hill's MD to Lily's and Thrive since starting insulin, that's quite a BIG reduction in carb content.... Please do keep a close eye on your kitty. And please, if you're not already doing so, do try to learn to hometest his blood glucose at home. It's really not nearly as hard as it sounds and we can help you learn to do it. Just post on the main health forum if you'd like more info. We're here to help. :bighug:

    Eliz
     
  51. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    My cat is on Mac, Thrive complete, Granata Pet and once a week I bake in the foil chicken breast for her. The other, non-diabetic cat is on Bozita, which is also a low carb food but a little higher in % carb than the above mentioned, 7%. Maybe you could try some of these for choice and variety. As for Lily's Kitchen, I decided to not buy their food when I heard there's carrageenan in there, it can cause gastrointestinal issues.

    I have a small question. Looking for tasty chicken or turkey canned food (because my cat eats too much cattle - lamb, veal, beef), low carb and no jelly. Any recommendations? Thank you
     
  52. SONICsteff

    SONICsteff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Hi, thanks so much for all your feedback. It’s so appreciated!

    He’s been on thrive and Lilly’s kitchen for two weeks and only started insulting yesterday. I would assume as the blood glucose curve was only conducted yesterday that his insulin levels - 1uniy twice a day - were calculated based off his current diet. Would you think this would be okay?

    We’re not home testing, but I’m thinking about starting. My only concern is I don’t want to upset or hurt him! Is it painless for them?

    Thanks.
     
  53. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes you should be ok with 1u on a lowish carb diet if a curve was only done yesterday, but we don't actually know what numbers the curve showed so it's not possible to be 100% certain. Can you ask the vet to email you a copy of the curve results? That would be very illuminating!
    Do start home testing - it won't hurt him and if you do so correctly and give him treats after the test for being a good boy, he will come to associate the test with a reward and see it as a positive thing. And it will give you peace of mind knowing that a pre-shot number is actually high enough to give insulin. These are early days for you and there's a lot to learn, but once you've got your head round the basics the whole thing becomes much more manageable. What insulin are you using? I'm guessing it's Caninsulin? There's a beginners guide here that you'll probably find very useful if you haven't seen it already:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/
     
  54. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Hoping to start home testing my cat this weekend and I noticed that some people recommend having a cream or gel to provide pain relief for their ear. Anyone got any UK recommendations?
     
  55. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi, well done for wanting to hometest!
    In the US Neosoprin is used by some folks, but there is no equivalent to that in the UK (I think it has antibiotic properties, and we can't buy 'over the counter' antibiotics here).
    I have heard of some UK folks using Emla cream, which is a topical anaesthetic, but its use (by people on feline diabetes forums) is not widespread. That may be because most cats don't find testing painful anyway. They may find it 'odd' at first, because it's a new thing. But there are very few nerve endings in the edge of the ear. It's not at all like us pricking one of our sensitive finger tips. My cat actually doesn't notice me pricking his ear if he's got a few crumbled treats in front of him to hoover up.

    Something that is used more by folks, especially if the cat has dark ears (making the blood harder to see), is a teensy weensy smear of Vaseline on the outer edge of the ear, just enough to make the fur look a wee bit greasy. It stops the blood disappearing into the fur, and enables it to form into a nice little 'bead' that sits on top of the fur. This can make it less likely that we need to prick the ear more than once...or twice...
    I used Vaseline for probably the first month that I was testing Bertie, until I realised that we just didn't seem to need it any more. The ears actually bleed more easily over time! Strange but true....

    As soon as you've got enough blood on your test strip (and as soon as you have a free hand or two) it's a good idea to put a little pressure where you've pricked the ear, just for a few seconds. You can press a little bit of folded tissue or a bit of cotton wool on the ear, or just lightly pinch between finger and thumb. This stops any residual bleeding, and in theory reduces bruising. In reality, very few cats seem to have any problems from having their ears pricked.

    Eliz
     
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  56. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Thanks for the advice, I bought a small tub of Vaseline this afternoon. Just waiting for the home test kit to arrive in the next few days now.
     
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  57. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    I'm sure that everyone is probably already aware of this but just in case I thought I'd add that Wilko do their own version of the Hi Life freeze dried chicken breast or duck breast treats. Their packs are only £1 and you get more in them as well (17g as opposed to Hi Life's 10g).
     
  58. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    No, didn't know that. Will add that info to the first post. Thank you very much! :cat:
     
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  59. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    You're welcome! Just trying to do my bit to repay all the kindness and information that people on here have given me. :)
     
  60. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Is it these? Does your cat like them? I must give them a go, they seem a lot cheaper than Thrive!

    https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-natural-chicken-breast-cat-treat-17g/p/0471628
     
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  61. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    And that's exactly what this board is all about and how it is constantly being built upon to provide an absolute treasure trove of cat knowledge. Some people have been here for years, others weeks, but the collective experiences that everyone adds all the time makes this place pretty much unique, I reckon :)
     
  62. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
  63. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes do! You can also crumble one or two up and put on the top of food if a cat is having an "off" day for eating - most cats love these freeze-dried things.
     
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  64. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Great tip, thanks!
     
  65. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Just tried him with a couple to see if he'll eat them. He did but he found it a little difficult as poor thing doesn't have many teeth. I'll probably have to break them up like I've been doing with the chunks in the butcher's classic food.
     
  66. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    That's ok - some of the chunks are quite big and I think they'd need to be broken up for most cats.
     
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  67. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    I've had these for my cats and they all seem to go down a treat with them all
     
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  68. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    @ Elizabeth and Bertie,

    Elizabeth, do you feed your cats any Mac food? They've changed their food (cans) so now it's much higher in % carbs than before. I wanted to make sure I didn't make any mistakes in calculating so decided to ask you. I used your old spreadsheet because it has a carbs calculator.

    MAC - Heart and Liver - used to be 0.4% - now 10.3 --- 10.8 protein, 7.2 fat, 0.5 fibre, 2.4 ash, 76 moisture
    MAC - Duck turkey chicken - used to be 1.2% - now 7.1%
    MAC - Beef and chicken hearts - 1.9% - this is the only one that remains the same, the rest are all higher
    MAC - Lamb turkey - used to be 2% - now 5.8%

    Bozita (packs in jelly) is also now higher, it used to be 6.1% if memory serves me well.. now it's 9.6% --- protein 7.5, fat 5, fibre 0.5, ash 2, moisture 83

    Mac catfood has been the only quality truly low-carb food that my cat would eat (reluctantly but she ate it), anything in higher % carbs would push her BG up. I'm worried now because I don't know what to feed her.
     
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  69. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Iryna,
    Gosh, if those carb counts have increased to that degree that is really sad! :(
    A couple of things, just to double check...
    Did you get the data from Zooplus or from the product label itself (Zooplus data can be a bit wonky sometimes...)?
    Or could my old SS calculator - if you're using that - not be working properly for some reason (maybe the formula got corrupted somehow)?

    Another member here, @hellolucy , has recently made a really good Google doc carb calculator which may be much better than my ancient SS. If you click on the link below you will get the option to open in Google drive and then save a copy.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view

    Eliz
     
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  70. Vintry

    Vintry Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    @ Elizabeth,

    Thank you for the link. I've input the figures and on her calculator it's only 1% less so pretty much the same. I've also checked the labels on zooplus and yes, they are accurate, they corresponf to the food you order. Then I went to my garage where I keep all the catfood (I stock up in advance), checked the labels on the cans from the recently arrived order and compared them to older ones. They look exactly the same but the % on the label are different! What a waste of money..

    MAC veal and turkey - old - protein 10.6, fat 6.9, fiber 0.3, ash 1.9, moisture 80 - 1.1% on both calculators
    MAC veal and turkey - new - protein 10.6, fat 7.1, fiber 0.5, ash 2.2, moisture 78 - 5.4% on new calculator, 5.7% on the old calculator

    So guys, whatever you are feeding your diabetic cat, please be careful and check the labels again. Especially if you, like me have been feeding the same food for a long time and no longer bother to make sure it's still low-carb.

    Elizabeth, the spreadsheet probably needs to be updated. If you need help with food label info, I can provide it from the actual cans I have at home to make sure the information is accurate. Let me know. I know a lot of people buy Bozita packs but their food is now 9.2% :( So it's not just MAC. Granata Pet's fish and liver ragout used to be 1.6% but now it's 4.6%, but they at least changed the label picture, which was enough to prompt me to check the %. I got suspicious about MAC only because my cat stopped eating it (so I assume the taste has changed too) and her BG wouldnt go down for days. Now I've figured out why.
     
  71. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Iryna, any info you have from the cans you have at home would be great to have! Do please PM me with that and I'll update those on the list.

    The food list is almost constantly in a process of being updated, I probably spend at least a couple of hours a week on it, sometimes many more, going through the brands currently on the list, and searching for new foods to add... But there are so many foods (coming onto the market, having names changed, being discontinued, having recipes changed...) that some information is inevitably out of date at any given time. So any data you can send me about specific foods where you know the data has changed would be really good to have.
    Thank you so much for your help! :bighug:

    Eliz
     
  72. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    @Vintry @Elizabeth and Bertie
    For reference I incorporated a carb-calculator spreadsheet into Dustys SS (linked below), mainly so that I could keep track of the levels in the various foods that we had available to her.
    Feel free if you want to grab the sheet and use it for your own purposes.
    White columns (A-H) are inputs (also column Q for any comments), blue columns are autocalculated.
    Rows are then coloured based on the "% cals from carbs" value.
    "Food Data (wet)" and "Food Data (dry)" operate the same, I just wanted to keep the two separate :)
    Feel free if you want to grab a copy of either sheet and use it - Also thanks for the reminder, I should recheck our current food!
     
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  73. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Oh, thanks! Will take a look at that. :)
     
  74. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Does anyone know of any cream or ointment that I could use on Little B's back? He's been scratching at the shaved area between his shoulder blades and making it bleed. The vet isn't sure at the moment if it's just the itchiness of the hair growing back or possibly the insulin. In the meantime she's suggested using Sudacrem on it but I read online that it contains ingredients that are toxic to cats. Has anyone else used Sudacrem or knows if it's safe? If not, any other suggestions?
     
  75. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2018
    Hopefully you've had some sort of answer to this by now, but we (personally) tend to avoid any human creams "just in case". I was advised that a simple olive oil massage can help prevent itching, and we've actually resorted to a stretch bandage recent to try and prevent Dusty from scratching (we used 3M Vetrap which works nicely)
     
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  76. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Hi, I got some answers on facebook but the problem's cleared up anyway. Thanks for taking the time to respond though.
     
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  77. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    How do you work out the percentage of calories from carbs? Tried to follow the instructions in the first post about dividing by total calories and times by 100 but where do you get the total calories from?

    Trying to work it out for a food not on the list and I'm so confused.
     
  78. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Lauren, the Scheydeweb calculator (in the link) will calculate total calories. So, it's possible to start out using the Scheyderweb calculator and then just go one stage further if you want to calculate 'percentage of calories' from carbs.
    Alternatively, you can use HelloLucy's calculator which should do the entire calculation for you:
    If you want to do the whole calculation manually the formula is this:
    From the label data (or manufacturer's website) add up the percentages for protein, fat, ash, fibre and moisture.
    Deduct that total from 100% and that will give you the carb percentage of the food by weight.
    Then you have percentages by weight for protein, fat, carbs, ash, fibre, and moisture.

    Multiply the protein and carb %'s x 3.5
    Multiply the fat % by 8.5
    That will give you the calories from each of those per 100g.
    Add those up to give you total calories per 100g.

    Divide the 'calories from carbs' per 100g by the 'total calories' per 100g, and then multiply by 100.
    That should give you the 'percentage of calories' from carbs.

    Eliz
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  79. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Okay thanks for the info.
     
  80. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Sorry Eliz but I can't get that google drive calculator to work on my laptop and I'm still confused by your explanation of how to do it manually. Could you give me an example at all?
     
  81. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Lauren, it might be simplest if you just use the Scheyderweb online calculator. It will give you a ballpark figure. Then, if you want to convert the result to a 'percentage of calories from carbs' basis just use the formula below:
    The Scheyderweb calculator uses a slightly different formula to the standard calculation (multiplies fat by 8.7 instead of the usual 8.5), but it's 'good enough' for general purposes.

    Food labelling isn't that accurate anyway. And our calculations are only ever going to be, at best, 'a good guesstimate' of the values.
    THE most important thing is how any food affects our own cat's blood glucose. That is what matters the most.

    Eliz
     
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  82. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Okay I'll just use that calculator then. Thanks for getting back to me.
     
  83. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Can anyone recommend something for loose stools?

    Since I had to change Little B from Butcher's Classic to Felix, he's been having bouts of loose stools. I tried changing his food again but he won't eat anything other than Felix at the moment. So I was wondering if I could give him anything else to try and resolve the loose stools. I know that some people on here have suggested plain pumpkin to others in the past but as far as I'm aware, it's not available over here unless it's Halloween!

    So any other suggestions?

    ( I am on a low income, so it couldn't be anything too expensive)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  84. Georgiana & Perlutz

    Georgiana & Perlutz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    You could try slippery elm bark powder. It's been recommended by few here on FDMB and worked for my lil guy. I open the capsules and sprinkle a tiny bit on his food then mix it well, others make a jelly/paste by mixing it with (hot?) water. Just have a search for slippery elm bark (or SEB) here on the forum, it's quite popular :)
     
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  85. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    I'll have a look thanks. I've also been told that there a couple of places I might be able to get pumpkin from so I will look for that as well. :)
     
  86. Kate & Toby

    Kate & Toby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2019
    @Elizabeth and Bertie I have read the above regarding the U40 syringes and I am still unsure.

    Originally we were using Caninsulin and had the Sol Vet syringes, when we switched to Prozinc I was issued with Boehringer Ingelheim U40 Syringes, I still have loads of the Sol Vet ones left, can I use these with Prozinc?

    Thank you in advance. And thank you again for the amazing information in this Sticky
     
  87. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Kate, you can use any U40 syringes with Prozinc. (Caninsulin and Prozinc are both U40 insulins and so can use the same syringes.) :)

    ...And thank you so much for your kind comment. That's really sweet of you. :bighug:
     
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  88. kalypso

    kalypso Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Hello Elizabeth and Bertie!
    Thank you a lot for the great information!
    Just wondering where you got the typical analysis for leonardo cans.
    Both in the site and zooplus, I get: protein 10%, fat 5%, ash 2%, fibre 0.3%, moisture 80%,
    which is the same for all flavors and makes 10.9 %Kcals from carbs (using this excel https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NOyUfaKxNa580Wnz-0c0_kRQgvlMJgnu/view)
    Was there a change in the recipe? Am I missing something?
     
  89. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello, and thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
    Aha, yes, the data for the foods has changed, as you rightly say, and now comes out at 10.9% cals from carbs, sadly...
    My guess, given the listed ingredients of the product, is the data may be wrong (it happens sometimes...)
    I have now removed Leonardo cans from the UK list.

    Thanks again!
    Eliz
     
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  90. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  91. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  92. Paolo’s family team

    Paolo’s family team New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2019
    Thank you very much for this uk information it is much appreciated and will help us find the right wet low carb food x
     
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  93. kalypso

    kalypso Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Hello again Elizabeth and Bertie!
    I have bought granatapet symphonie no 5, thinking it was 4,51 % Kcals from carbs but I see on your list it's 8,4 % and am alarmed!
    In my calculation I use values protein 10 %, fat content 4,6 %, crude ash 2 %, raw fibre 0,4 %, moisture content 82 %, which are as stated on the can.
    However, I see that you use different values, which are the same as on granatapet site: protein 10,1 %, fat content 5,3 %, crude ash 2,2 %, crude fibre 0,3 %, moisture content 80 %. I see that the cans look slightly different on the site, so I assume they changed the recipe? What a pitty! I guess I am safe with the ones I have though to assume they are 4,51 %.
     
  94. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Looking for recommendations for probiotics that are okay for diabetic cats.

    Unfortunately Little B is having another bout of loose stools and pumpkin hasn't really helped this time. His vet has suggested trying him on some probiotics and the only one I really know is Fortiflora. However that is far too expensive for me so I could do with some other suggestions. I have found some by simply supplements (see link below) but I don't know if all probiotics are suitable for a cat with his condition so I thought I'd check here.

    This is one I have found:

    https://www.simplysupplements.co.uk/vitapaws/cat-supplements/digestiaid-plus-cats
     
  95. GraceCyrus

    GraceCyrus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    This is priceless information, thank you so much.
     
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  96. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
  97. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Hi @Elizabeth and Bertie, just thought I'd let you know that VetUK have reduced the price of their U40 syringes and are currently selling a box of 100 syringes for £10. Thought it might be useful for anyone struggling to get them from their vet or just struggling financially like me.
     
  98. GraceCyrus

    GraceCyrus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Is there a ointment in the UK we can use on the ears, I can't source neosporin or an alternative here.
     
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  99. Cherish4

    Cherish4 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    A lot of people use Vaseline here in the UK. Usually you put a little on the ear before you do the test.
     
  100. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
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