Am I looking at a bounce?

Hello everyone. Peter and I have been doing better recently; still adjusting to blood tests etc. I've fully switched him over to the low-carb prescribed dry food, though we hope to do a gradual transition to wet food soon. Right now though I'm concerned he may be "bouncing." We did an insulin increase Monday per instructions, and today is our curve day. He certainly has had high numbers all along, but they were getting a bit better, and we were seeing less symptoms (drinking less urgently, etc), but so far yesterday and today the numbers seem to be steadily high no matter what. He also seems a bit more lethargic to me, though I never know when I'm reading into his behavior because I'm nervous! Here are the numbers we have right now: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0

Let me know if you have any thoughts. I know this is still early days.

-Chelsea

 

Hello, Chelsea and Peter!

Nice to hear you are considering a gradual transition to a wet food. Another great thing is that you are testing Peter's BG at home.
What type of insulin are you using?
If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the same 2U dose for a couple of days. We will see then. The tricky thing about insulin is that too much insulin and too little insulin might look the same. Keep an eye on Peter's BG and wait a few days.

 

Thanks, sound like good advice to me. We are using ProZinc insulin. I would like to transition to wet food right away, but at least initially my vet really wants us to use prescription food. She is willing to prescribe the prescription wet food, which I'm sure would be better. Unfortunately money is very tight, and since the first bag of dry prescription food was donated to us, we really need to use that first. Hopefully we can start a gradual transition, and then eventually try him on fancy feast or something similar.

 

What is the dry food? There are very few lower carb dry brands and none are prescription. Now that you are testing, you can change him over to wet low carb, slowly if he has tummy troubles. Maybe 3/4 dry to 1/4 wet, slowly increasing the wet and decreasing the dry. It should make a big difference in his numbers.

It would also be helpful to get midcycle numbers ,between 5-7 hours after the shot. There is a possibility he is also dropping low midcycle and bouncing back up. You are using ProZinc, right?

I would be careful about letting him sit in these very high numbers. First advice is to change the food asap. We recommend 8 carbs. For example Purina DM dry is 13% carbs. Second, get some ketone tests. You want to be careful of ketones when his numbers are so high. Here is some info:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm

If he is dropping 50% or more at midcycle, then yes, he definitely could be bouncing.

 

You got some brilliant pieces of advice from Sue and Oliver

 

Yeah, its Purina DM. I'll head out and get some of the wet food today, and see if we can start that transition. We're doing a 5 test curve today since I'm home, and I can try to get a mid-day number tomorrow as well, but unfortunately during the week that isn't so much an option.

 

So I started him on half wet Purina DM last night, along with half dry, and I also for the last two injections have paid more attention to getting it right under the skin, as I wasn't sure whether I was doing it right. Happily, this morning's reading was a 492. Certainly not ideal, but still an 80 point drop from last night. He also just looks better this morning. Seems more perky. Hoping we're on a good trend now. Thanks everyone for the help!

 

Prettier color, right? Still very high. Did you get a ketone test?

I'd give the food change a cycle or two and if he is not in a lower range, consider an increase. Increasing during a food change is always a little scary (as the food will likely be bringing the numbers down) but you are testing and can monitor. Sitting in these high numbers is not good for him.

 

Just some ranges for reference.

We consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower 200s at preshot and in the 100s or lower at midcycle, but not under 40 which is hypo range. A cat, off insulin, generally ranges from 40-120. Anything above 300 is fairly high, especially if there is not much of a midcycle drop. We advise new diabetics not to shoot under 200 but to wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest to see if the number is sure rising, not falling.

Just checking - you are definitely testing before feeding, right?

 

The mid cycle test today brought him down to 329 at +7 hours (wasn't home for the 6 hour mark exactly). Yes, we are testing consistently twice a day before meals/shots at this point; I just can only do mid-cycle numbers generally on the weekends. I'm really wondering in addition to the food change, how much shooting with a better technique might be helping too. My vet had just said to shoot under the skin in the ruff of his fur. Now that I'm making sure to "tent" the skin and do just under, I think the dose might be getting to him more consistently. I did pick up some ketone strips, I just haven't had an opportunity to use one yet. I'll try to see if I can spot him on a litter box run at some point today... Overall though, he just looks so much better today than yesterday; more energy and personality.

 

I'd see if you could get a test around +9 too. Might fill out the picture.

 

Sooner you can get rid of that dry the better - my cats go super high on less than a teaspoon of the stuff and it lasts in their systems for over 24 hours.

 

I just have to chime in here..... While I most certainly do acknowledge that your vet is an educated person, he/she may not be giving you the best advice with your sugar kitty. My vet certainly didnt. The people here will guide you in the right direction. The prescription food you are using is still too high in carbs. I know this because I was doing exactly the same thing you are, same food, and it had the same results. My Samantha was bouncing, and we were not getting good numbers. As soon as I ditched the Rx foods, and switched to Fancy Feast Pate Sammy's numbers went down and became much more predictable.

The other bonus was my non diabetic cat (called a civvy "civilian" on this board) has lost a lot of his flab, and is behaving like a youngster again.

And the Fancy Feast pate is probably the most economical food you can feed too Its just a big win-win. Our cats love the Turkey and Giblets Pate, which is why you cant find a can of it in my town right now... I bought them ALL when they went on sale!

Take a deep breath and know it will all work out.

Linda