11/11 TERUMO SYRINGE/NEEDLE UPDATE!!!

Good Afternoon Lantus Land!!

I heard this rumor about Terumo insulin syringes being discontinued so I thought I'd go right to the source and ask Terumo. I called this morning and spoke with a Customer Service agent who told me, yes, "some" of their insulin syringes are being discontinued. He asked for the specific one I was concerned about and I gave him the following info:

Thinpro U100, 0.3cc, 31g, 3/8" needle, 0.5u markings AND also the product number off the box which is SS30M3109R

He said these are NOT being discontinued. (eta he was wrong).

I think it would be just fine if anyone else wanted to call and see if you get the same answer. Phone number is: 800.888.3786 and press "3" for Customer Support.

Eta: Elise called and got a different response. I called back and was told these syringes are not on the discontinue list. However, to be 100% certain, the agent I spoke with is contacting the Product Manager, Mark Goldstein, and will send his response to me via email as soon as he gets it. He said Mark would be the person with the most accurate info as he is involved in those decisions. More to follow.....

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Not Being Discontinued

Well bummer....I got an email from the product manager and he said they are being discontinued.

I have sent him a plea. We'll see what his response is.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

They will no longer be making the UTW needles many of us use for fluids either. Thrivingpets and others were buying them up so they can continue to sell those as long as possible. I need to see if they are also discontinuing the needles I use to test Max as they will likely be gone as well.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

This is NOT good news! I just called Terumo and was told that these syringes (ThinPro, 3/10cc, 3/8'' needle, 31 gauge, half-unit markings) are out of stock but will be back in stock in early Dec. After that, when the new supply is gone, they will be discontinued. BUMMER indeed! I am about to write to the product manager, too. Stay tuned!

Ella

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I'm glad you were able to get a response. I had emailed ahwile back, but never got a reply. I am bummed they are being discontinued because I really like them :sad:

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

The product manager's email is Marc dot goldberg at terumomedical dot com (remove spaces)

Go for it! The more we send, hopefully, they will listen. I haven't heard back from him yet but I also have his phone so that will be my next step.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

BOO!! I also sent an email. Will post the reply if I get one. Thanks for alerting me Marje.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I've not heard from him yet. A call might occur tomorrow. ;-)

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Aaaarrgghhh, not again. Syringe hell returns! :twisted:

We tried the Terumos and ended up going back to the monojets. Once we had the lighted magnifying lamp, magnifying visor and calipers, it made a lot of difference. And the last several boxes of monojets were back up to better quality.

I hope the manufacturers of the syringes are more responsive than those who did the greenie duck and pea pill pockets for cats! :YMSIGH:

Anne

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Thanks for the heads up. ADW still has them in stock and I just ordered several boxes. In addition I also e-mailed ADW to ask if they too would contact Terumo. They would add considerable weight to the effort to get Terumo to reconsider. If we all e-mailed ADW they may just add their 2 cents worth.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Thanks so much for letting us know, Marje. I just went and ordered a bunch, too. I think I will also send an e-mail.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

This morning I wrote (via e mail) to Terumo (Marc Goldberg) and to Customer Service at ADW. Thanks, Ann, for suggesting that we also write to ADW. They may have some clout.

Ella

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I just received this reply from Mr Goldberg. Not good news.

"We at Terumo appreciate your concern. Unfortunately, Terumo has concluded that it is not economically feasible to continue producing insulin syringes.

I wish you the best of luck finding suitable alternatives."

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

So much for customers who rely on your products!! :-x

p.s. I just got the same reply from Terumo. I wonder why it is no longer "economically" feasible to manufacture insulin syringes? Can it be because most human diabetics use the needles that come with their pens?

Ella

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

:cry: :cry: These needles can make the difference between getting a cat to cooperate taking fluids and not.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I got the same response from Mr. Goldberg today. Great idea, Ann. I'm going to email ADW.

Despite Mr. Goldbergs response, I encourage anyone who uses Terumos to email him. I'm going to call him. I thought that was a non customer service oriented response.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I know. There is another manufacturer that supposedly has similar needles. I've read all this on CRF lists and I've been too busy here to keep up with the latest. There was talk as to whether they are the same and if they will be discontinued as well. At one point it seemed like they might still make UTW but doubtful. I know Ian at thrivingpets did try another brand briefly that people didn't like but don't know the latest. If I find out anything more I will pass it on. With Tiffany I used the TW 19g because she wouldn't stay still long enough. They are still way better than the harpoons but I don't know their status.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Hi again,

I received a really helpful e mail from ADW's Customer Service Dept. They have been in close contact with Terumo since learning that the insulin syringes would be discontinued. ADW still has limited stock on hand and will get more, because Terumo has just sent them their final order. When that is gone, it is gone. However ADW has put together a list of syringes that have the "same" specs as the Terumo line and will work closely with customers to insure that their needs are met. They specifically said that they "do not want to see any lapses occur in a pet's treatment plan because of this situation".

This is true customer service, unlike the curt replies we have been getting from Terumo's Marc Goldberg!

Ella

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

That is encouraging, Ella. Thanks for sharing .

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Fantastic, Ella. When I spoke with Carol at ADW customer service, she wasn't that helpful when I asked her if there was a similar syringe.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

CRAP!!! I just ordered two boxes of the Terumos on Monday. Now I'm going back to order a five pack and HOPE they still have some!! I hate spending that much money at one time, but it's better than running out of a reliable syringe.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I think I got exactly the same response from ADW as Ella, so that's hopeful. Nothing yet from Terumo. I too was wondering if the use of pens/needles and pumps was the reason for the discontinuation of their syringes.

also after a Google search for Terumo Thinpro syringes, all the sites that listed them just had a link back to ADW. I couldn't find any sites (other than a wholesaler who wanted your business info) that carried them.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

ARGH!!! I didn't realize the fluids needles were also being discontinued! So now we have a fluids shortage AND can't get needles - that's frikken' crazy. I'm heading over to ThrivingPets to see if they have the 21g that we use....if so, I'll be stocking up. I am SO frustrated that taking proper care of my family is getting to be such a challenge. With the way diabetes is on the rise in this country, how is it not economical to produce them???

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

calvetsupply.com still has them and is cheaper than thrivingpets.com. I just emailed them to see if they know any more about this. I use the 25g for ear pricks and just got 2 boxes. The needles do have expiration dates so think about that if placing a large order. People in various areas are having major problems getting fluids as well and I just read again that the companies are restricting or not selling to vet supplies.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

Thank you, Elise! In my panic, I ordered some from Thriving Pets, then I saw your post. Fortunately I was able to cancel my Thriving Pets order and reorder from CalVet....saved me a nice little piece of change. I have to learn to keep my head about me and not panic like that!!

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I also wrote ADW, called Marc Goldberg (no reply yet), and ordered a bag of Easy Touch syringes from CALVET. I just want to see how they compare.

I don't have any micropipettes here right now. In the worst case scenario, if anyone finds another syringe that seems really awesome, I can always ask MJ for a micropipette and run some more experiments on dosing equivalents. Now that I've done it, another go round would go faster. But....let's see what we find out.

 

Re: 11/11 Terumo ThinPro Syringes Are Being Discontinued

I have both Terumo needles and syringes in the house, ordered sometime in 2014, and they all have 2018 expiration dates. So people should have a good bit a time to use them up.

When people are writing Terumo, maybe let them know you'd be willing to pay more for the product to keep it in supply? A company isn't going to produce a product at a loss just because customers want it. I'd definitely pay more for the fluid needles. I don't use their syringes myself, I have them because they are what the shelter had gotten for one of the fosters but I just didn't like them compared to the Monoject.

 

Well, ADW is officially out of stock. I placed an order for 4 boxes this morning and they just called to tell me they have to cancel my order. All of the syringes they were getting have been ordered. grr_red

 

I spoke with Mr. Goldberg just now. He said he has received a TON of emails and requested that, based on the info he gave me, we would discontinue the emails.

Insulin Syringes
He said the decision was made at the International level and was because the equipment used to manufacture these syringes is very old and absolutely must be upgraded. Considering that Terumo actually has a very small portion of the insulin syringe market, the cost of the equipment just doesn't justify their continued presence in this market. He said it was not a decision made lightly but they can no longer continue to use the equipment they have. They are just fulfilling backorders and will be done with that in Dec and then the plants will be permanently closed. He was very apologetic and when I asked if we sent letters to their corporate HQ would it help, he said it wouldn't. They are just not a major contributor to the insulin syringe market and the cost of the equipment doesn't justify it.

He said the best advice he can give is to stockpile as much as you can. He said their syringe with the product code SS30M3109 is the exact same syringe but it is sold to veterinarians and so you could possibly get your vet to order some as well for you but those are similarly being discontinued. He just thought that perhaps, between the two, it might give us some more availability until they are all sold out.

I asked if he might suggest a comparable insulin syringe in quality and he did not hesitate and said "BD Ultra Fine". He said he thinks BD makes excellent syringes (I always had so many bubbles with them but we were newbies....maybe it's time to revisit) but they don't make a 3/8". They make short needles (5/16") and long needles (1/2") but the 31g only come in short needles. He is not endorsing any specific company but it is just his personal opinion that BD makes a comparable insulin syringe.

Needles
I also asked if he could address the UTW needle issue and he did confirm they are no longer making them. But he said that the regular needles should be absolutely fine for those of us giving subq fluids. He said the outside diameter of the UTW and the Reg needles are exactly the same. They are ground the same; they have the same sharpness. He said the difference in the UTW and Reg needles is solely flow rate but if we are using LRS, Normosol, Saline, etc, we would see no difference in flow rate. Where the difference is seen is in higher viscosity fluids. He said the UTW does not equate for less pain for our kitties upon entry of the needle. They won't be able to tell the difference. So he said we should all be just fine using their regular needles.

Lastly, he said that they test their products for top performance through five years. So even if you purchase a product and the expiration date is two years out, you should be able to safely use it for five because they still get top performance at five years.

I know this is not what we wanted to hear about the syringes but I'd take his advice and get what you can. I also emailed ADW and got the same response as others so I emailed back and asked where the list is? When I get the list from them, or if someone else does, we can start sharing and see how it goes. I actually ordered several boxes of Terumo syringes so I'm hopefully not going to need them any time soon as long as they can fill the order. BUT, I'll be glad to start making some syringe comparisons if members want to let me know what they might recommend or like.

 

I just got a call from ADW, and my order, placed yesterday, will not be filled - they are all sold out and will not get more. Carol was the one that left the message, and she said to call and they would recommend alternative syringes. We used to use BD, but I seem to recall they don't make them with 1/2 unit markings. Am I mistaken about that?

 

The flow rate on a 19g needle will be much faster than a 21g needle but, according to Mr. Goldberg, the UTW vs TW should feel no different to the kitty.

I don't think they do have 0.5u markings....or if they do, I can't find them....but if you are using calipers, it doesn't matter.

 

I don't know, I think Mr Goldberg is trying to selling you something ;-) We have used the 19g and the 20g for 2 years now, they are the split between UTW and TW. The 19g looks thicker and bigger than the 20g. The 19g absolutely produces a reaction on Taz. I could get the 20g in without a reaction on Sophia and now Taz most of the time. The flow rate was about half the time with the 19g, which is why we used it on Taz for this long until she's just gotten too uncomfortable with the stick of with the 19g.

 

I used the BD Ultra Fine II syringes for Bear Man, and they came with 1/2 unit markings. It has been a few years, so I don't know if they still make them.

 

Most of the rest of the world uses BD syringes as they pretty much have a monopoly. And yes, they come in half unit markings. It's what I've always used.

 

This is so frustrating. Wendy, do you have a link to what you order?

 

Melanie

A 19g needle is bigger and thicker than a 20g needle and so, yes, a cat will feel it more. But the reason is because of the gauge of the needle, not whether it is UTW or not. The reason I believe what he said is when I gave my GA Sitka fluids the first time, I was given UTW 18g needles and she felt it. But she did not feel the 21g. So it's the needle size, not the wall thickness.

Thank you, Linda and Wendy! I missed it somehow. I do know the BDs are more expensive than Terumos...by quite a bit.

 

Here's the ADW link to the equivalent of what I get, although in Canada in comes in boxes of 100. Here's the one I get (although at the local pharmacy). BD 8mm. They are now selling shorter 6mm needle syringes, but I haven't tried the shorter needles yet.

 

I guess I lucked out with the syringes..I got my order delivered today(4 boxes). Wow, they ran out fast :shock:

 

For those of you who need needles for sub-q, another source is calvetsupply. They still have them in stock. He is suggesting excel as a possible replacement when the terumo are sold out.

I luckily ordered 5 boxes of insulin syringes that have been shipped to me as well although I have not received them yet.

 

Thanks, Wendy. Yikes on the price. That's $10 more a box than the terumos. I really like the in between length on the terumos but guess I'll go back to the short needle.

 

I got an order confirmation on Wed., but no shipping confirmation yet.

 

Hi guys,
ADW called me this afternoon, too, to tell me that they are now sold out of the Terumo 3/10cc 31-gauge syringes. (I had ordered a 5-pack yesterday.) They have received the last shipment and there won't be any more. Their stock just flew off the shelves! We had a long conversation about replacement syringes, which they were prepared to recommend (the customer care person and I; the manager was also there and joined the conversation). They still have the Terumo 1/2 cc, 31 gauge syringes, but I told them that the barrel would be different (they confirmed this) and that since I gave such a small dose, that would entail re-doing all of my caliper calculations. (This amazed them: "what dose do you give?" ".75 of a unit". "Oh my; we understand your problem"). So I thanked them and said that I needed to do some research on the other choices and that when I ran out of my current supply of Terumos, I would return to ADW and order something else.

These people were very sympathetic. I could tell that they were swamped, yet they took the time to try to help. This company is a keeper!

I have a box of BDs that I purchased a year or two ago when I was giving up on Monojects. I'll take another look at them.

Good luck to us all!!

Ella

 

Like Wendy, I use BD, except I like the 6mm better- however, they are almost 20.00 at Bartell's Drug- so I alternate with WalMart Relion's, $12.00. Both have bubble problems, also the Relion syringe I do believe holds less insulin than the BD's, so I wish I had compared the doses in both before switching back and forth... :roll:

 

Ruth

It is better to stick withi one syringe because of the sringe inacurracies. There can be quite a difference between syringes especially if the barrels are a different diameter.

THanks, Ella....did they give you a list of what they think is comparable?

 

They offered to send an UltiCare syringe as a replacement. I think it was this one:
http://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/ulticare-u-100-vetrx-half-unit-insulin-syringes_5739_1.htm

But we didn't really get that far, since I did not want to order at this time. They did not have a list, but the Customer Service Dept. was really busy--almost chaotic, from the sound of things.

I think I'll try the BD syringe Wendy recommends and maybe order a box of the UltiCare (the price of a box of UltiCare VetRx is similar to Terumo, but there are only 60 syringes in the box).

Ella

 

I went through the syringes at ADW last night and made a SS for comparisons. A couple of different ones look promising. Be careful not all come in boxes of 100, some are 90 and some are 60.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wyMdxfjs2-floXNYy1CHWA1Xovp7xSpBtqBWIyRoMjA/edit#gid=0

 

Ann, Google says we need permission to access this file. I think you need to change a setting.

Can't wait to see it!

Ella

 

Sorry! I keep forgetting that sharing isn't automatic. Try it again now.

 

Yep, it works fine! It will be a big help! Many thanks!!

Ella

 

Thank you for putting together the spreadsheet Ann.
I'm so glad to see that there are some options for us out there.

 

Ann...you are awesome!!! Thank you so much for doing this. I did order a pack of 10 of the Easy Touch from Cal Vet. I'll let you all know when I get them, how they compare.

 

I thought it might be a while before Carol at ADW had time. It would be great if anyone who has used any of these could give a review of them. I'll include any comments in the notes section.

 

Ann

Here is BD's insulin syringe description page for any details you need on their products.

 

I added the link. I wish they had shown the 8mm (5/16") needle in the comparison picture w/ the 6mm and the 1/2". I zoomed up the picture of the box and couldn't see "U-100" anywhere, nor did the ADW page specify and I don't see it on the BD page either. They probably are, but I would double check.

I'd also like to know if they have gotten any better about getting rid of bubbles. When I first started it was impossible to get rid of bubbles with them.

I think the ones that say "no dead space" might be promising, Vet's Choice and the Easy Touch from CalVet..

 

Here is a syringe comparison chart on the BD website. Look at the second row down.

ETA: And their selection guide for U-100 syringes.

 

Great chart, Wendy.

I would advise anyone buying BD to go with the 8mm. I've always wondered even if that size, which is 5/16", does not provide as good absorption as a 1/2" needle but the 1/2" needles can make it easier to do fur shots. That's why I always liked the Terumo needles...in between a short and long needle. I think a 6mm length would be challenging to get through into the cat's subq layer really well.

 

Hi Everyone - I was just wondering what the needle of choice has been to replace the Terumos? My son-in-law's cat also has diabetes & I'm wondering if there was ever a consensus decision?

 

You can still get the terumo from ADW. I recently bought several boxes.

 

I have been using these UltiCare U-100 VetRx HALF UNIT Insulin Syringes 31g 3/10cc 5/16. As I am new to this, does the manufacturer really make a difference?

 

Thanks Elise, but my son-in-law just got an email today that they are no longer available. I called (3x just to make sure) & customer service confirmed this. So - the party's definitely over. They don't use calipers, so I'm thinking the BD would be the closest match for them with the 1/2 unit markings? And I'm thinking as Marje said, the 8mm is the best closest size???

I don't know about the Ulticare, I've only ever use the terumo. I know that syringes are all different, though, some with more bubbles than others, some with a greater capacity than others. Marje did a great post on comparing syringes some time back. I also see that Ann's got a great chart up there - CalVet's easytouch may be a winner, too

Now what to do over the fluid needles!!! Yikes!!!

 

They were gone and then back. Weird. You can get the sub-q ones from calvetsupply

 

Boy do the brands you use matter. When I switched it took me at least a week to find a dose. The syringes can vary by as much as .5 of a unit. My old ones had a hub and it was impossible to know how much insulin was in it.

 

I've been using these syringes from ADW for a while now and not had any problems.

Item No. 8326301001 - Ultilet Glucose Lancets Classic 30G 100/bx

 

Good to know, & thanks for the CalVet suggestion for sub-q needles, Elise. I think I'll stay with the terumo & give up the 1/2 unit markings with the 1/2cc syringes. I know these syringes & can use my calipers to help with the dosing.

 

That is what I was thinking of doing until I got lucky. The box I'm using has the o mark off in over half anyways.

 

I bought a bag of Easy Touch syringes from Calvet. They are not good. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

 

That was a lucky break, Elisa - i had a box like that, too. Did you go back to the Terumos, Marje?

 

It was lucky. I happened to read here that ADW had them again. I felt silly buying so many boxes but now glad that I did. Marje bought a lot the first time they we heard they were being discontinued. I hope you find some that you like as well. I sort of think I'd use the ones without 1/2 unit markings. I started with the Relions and liked that I didn't get the bubbles I get with the terumo said but the unknown in the hub was crazy making and likely added to a year of bouncing even using calipers. Good luck.

 

I agree that if you are using calipers that the half unit markings aren't necessary, but you'll have to readjust your calipers if you go to a 1/2cc syringe. W/ the 1/2cc syringes the barrel is wider so the markings are close together. The same caliper setting would give more insulin. I stocked up too, but I think that when I run out I'll try the 30 gauge needles in the .3cc size.

Are all Terumo syringes being discontinued or just the "31G 3/10cc 3/8" ? Great tip on the sub-q needles from CalVet! I order a bag of the SOL-M Insulin U40 Syringe with HALF UNIT markings - .3 cc with 30 x 1/2 needle to try out. Slightly larger needle, but it is .3cc and has half unit markings. Tess is burning through the Terumos w/ using R as well.

 

have any of you done a google search for terumo 31G 3/10cc 3/8?
I just did.... and several places claim to have them....
I just ordered 4 more boxes.

 

Are they the ones with 1/2 unit markings? ADW had the others last time I checked.

 

yes.
... waiting to see if I get an error email.... but it went thru.... and is already showing up on my credit card....

the second place on google looked like they had them too.... just have to call and ask the price it says....

 

here we go... they need to update the website......

We apologize but the Terumo Thinpro Insulin Syringe 31G 3/10cc 3/8" 100/bx, is no longer available. We do have this item available in the sizes listed below. Please let us know if you would like to substitute this item for any of the sizes provided. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact our customer service department.

28G 1cc 1/2" 100/bx

29G 1/2cc 1/2" 100/bx

29G 1cc 1/2" 100/bx

30G 1/2cc 3/8" 100/bx

31G 1/2cc 3/8" 100/bx

31G 1cc 3/8" 100/bx

 

now I have an email telling me I just need to fax in the prescription ( which I never had to before)
so I'll call them tomorrow and find out...and if so... I'll do it.