11/28 Gracie PMPS 208 +2 276 +3 280

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Marje and Gracie, Nov 28, 2015.

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  1. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Gracie’s ER Visit

    Sending many prayers today for Bron, Chris Farley, Tricia’s crew, Amy’s Dad, Elise’s Mom, DK, and any others in need and forgive me for any omissions....I am foggy brained.

    I just got off the phone with the ER doc who has also been talking to the oncologist. The great thing is the ER is the same place where the oncologist is and the oncologist owns the whole shebang so it really helps everyone can talk. They both agreed that if it was anyone else as the CG, they’d want to hospitalize Gracie but they know she’s better off at home where we will monitor her BG, urine, water consumption, ketones, and make sure she eats. They would also just be watching her but probably not checking her BG as much and I know Gracie would not eat for them. At all. We just need time for the antibiotic and chemo drug to really kick in.

    Gracie’s abdomen has a little more fluid today. Yesterday, she weighed 7 lbs 11 oz at the vet and at +2 last night, she weighed 8 lbs 4 oz. Yes...that much fluid. This morning, she weighs 8 lbs 5 oz and we hope to see it dropping as the chemo takes effect. Paws crossed. She is drinking a lot of water and is very lethargic but her eyes are bright when she sees us, she’s purring, and her “horns” are sticking out so I know she wants to fight this. I keep telling her it is just a hump. I held her for a very long time this morning and got a stinkeye so that’s promising.

    @Libby and Lucy you said you wished you could help and you can because I also read you said we can be more aggressive with the R dosing if she will eat. She’s not eating totally on her own but she lets me syringe feed her and she ate all her food @ +2 off my fingers. I increased her lev this morning and gave 0.4uR. I would love it if you could give me some help with the R and how much/how often I can give it. The vet said when it’s worn off, if she isn’t coming down, give more and judge it by how she did with the previous dose but don’t make big adjustments and, of course, monitor her. I almost gave 0.5u R this morning but with the dose increase on the lev and they cut the pred dose in half, I thought I should be careful. Any thoughts you or
    @Jill & Alex (GA) have would be a tremendous help. Thank you so much.

    Thank you for all your support and miracle L/L land prayers.
     
  2. knolet

    knolet Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2012
    Stopping by with tons of prayers, and vines, and hugs. Keep fighting Miss Gracie, I hope you feel better soon! and you too Marje :bighug:
     
  3. Suzi_S

    Suzi_S Well-Known Member

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    Sending much love and vines and prayers to you and little Gracie
     
  4. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Feb 14, 2011
    More prayers from us....I'm glad to see her BG has come down a tad. Every little bit must help. The ER folks are smart to know that you guys are awesome at taking care of her - I'm sure she will do much better at home surrounded by your love than in the hospital.
     
  5. MrZ

    MrZ Well-Known Member

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    (((( Marje ))))
    I'm so sorry Gracie is having these issues. Mega vines that the chemo will kick in soon and resolve the fluid in the stomach problem. So glad that Gracie's home - the best place she could possibly be. She's one strong baby girl and I know she'll fight hard for her Momma and dad.

    Continued prayers for you all from the Zekey camp.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  6. Doodles & Karen

    Doodles & Karen Well-Known Member

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    Jun 2, 2015
    So glad she is home as I see that having a much more positive affect on her recovery. Getting the stinkeye is certainly a good thing! Prayers he appy gets better and you get the help needed for her BG. :bighug::bighug:
     
  7. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    for the R, I would just keep giving it until it does something with the numbers. You don't have to worry about conflicting onsets or nadirs right now because at the moment the Lev isn't doing anything, so if you give some R and test at +2 and it hasn't touched her, give more. It does look like the 0.4 may have pulled her down a little bit, so maybe the answer is 0.4 or 0.5 but given as often as you need to.

    I remember Jojo saying that in this situation, pounding them with R can be safer than continuing to increase the Lantus/Lev because the R isn't forming a depot. If you increase the Lev dose too much or too fast, you could get into trouble when the infection/pain/whatever clears. If you give too much R, then you just have to fight that for a little while until the R wears off. This is more or less what they would do in the hospital except they would probably give glucose instead of food.

    Jill probably can add something since she has more experience dosing a sick cat. I'm sure she has a lot of notes on her SS too, if you have time to look at it. Jazzy and KK both went DOWN in dose when they were sick so I'm not a lot of help other than what I have seen others do.

    Obviously this is an advanced technique and shouldn't be followed by anyone else.
     
  8. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    ETA: I see Libby has already posted! LOL!

    (((Marge, Mike, & Gracie)))
    Many of us understand the physical and emotional toll you're going through. I wish I could offer hands on help, but I'm too far away. We're all rooting for Gracie! She's one of the luckiest kitties in the world to have you and Mike.

    I agree with Libby about being aggressive with R if Gracie will eat or you feel confident in your ability to get food into her (there's a difference). There were only a few times I felt I had to be more aggressive than usual using R when Alex was sick, but I was glad I did.
    As you already know, you never want the nadirs of the basal and bolus insulins to coincide. However, when the numbers are high that's not so much a concern any more. You can give R pretty much any time until you're seeing movement.

    That said, Alex's Lev onset was usually around +4, nadir around +8, and duration was usually 12 - 14 hours. Generally speaking, R would kick in about +2, she'd see an appreciable drop between +3 and +4, then for all practical purposes the immediate effects of R seemed to wane by +4 - +5. Given those facts, I could safely shoot R (if needed) between shot time and +4 as well as any time between +8 and the next shot.

    A couple examples from Alex's ss of some aggressive shooting with 0.1u doses of R:
    • 11/25/2012 - I shot R @AM+8 and @PMPS.
    • 11/26/2012 - The morning shot was skipped because of a vet appointment. I used R @Lev +18 and then again @Lev +23. Shot Lev @+24. I should have given her more R when I took the reading at PM Lev +9, but I just couldn't stay awake to monitor. You and Mike may be able to manage times like that with your tag team approach.
    • 08/05 & 06/2013 - Used R on yellow numbers. AM skipped shot. PMPS was @+22. Shot Lev and R at shot time. Shot Lev and R the next morning @+13.25.
    • 12/03/2013 - Shot R @AM+6.5. Shot Lev and R on a (+11)PMPS.
    Occasionally, I did shoot a bit higher doses of R (0.15u, 0.2u, and 0.25u) and it worked out, but could have easily resulted in creating a bounce. I felt the most comfortable and in control when shooting 0.1u R frequently. At first I would only use R on obviously high numbers, but once my comfort level increased I began lowering that threshold. You'll have to figure out what works best for you and Gracie.

    You're experienced with Lev and R. You "know your cat". You'll probably have to make Lev adjustments slowly while you're learning about how Gracie responds to the pred and chemo. Personally, I'd rather use R than worry about having to steer a low number event because of too much Lev on board with a cat that may not want to eat. The best advice I could give you regarding managing her diabetes is to use R as often as necessary (within the general guidelines).


    Suggestions made in this post are for Marje and Mike only.
    Incorporating a bolus insulin in addition to the basal insulin is an aggressive technique and shouldn't be attempted by others without discussion and guidance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  9. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    I've been thinking of you Marje, and Gracie all morning. :bighug::bighug:

    I don't know if it will help you at all, but I had to fine tune my R dosing last week when Neko was getting blacks. I created an R scale, based on both the R preshot and whether she was going up or down at the time of the shot. I have seen some people with acrokitties give R up to 4 times a day. Once right after L nadir and the other 6 hours later. I have no experience with that because Neko's onset and nadir for R are a little later so it's hard to fit it all in with the Lev action. And I see Libby just posted, yeah!

    Which chemo drop is Gracie taking? Did they tell what it's onset and nadir are! Paws all crossed here for action soon.
     
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  10. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    Thanks for the update, when you already have so much on your mind. You know we are all worrying about our Gracie.

    Are they giving her Chlorambucil/Leukeran? She hadn't started on that yet, had she?

    That vet obviously is very wise and not at all egotistic. Gracie is in much better hands at home, because you love her so, and she will be more comfortable in familiar surroundings. You are just as capable, probably more so, as any vet tech they could assign to her.

    I can't give any advice except to say remember to take care of you, so you can be in shape to take care of her. I'm so glad Mike is home with you now. I hope he'll be able to stay for a while. Scritches to Tobey, who must be so confused by all this.

    More vines and prayers on the express to Tucson.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  11. Anne & Zener GA

    Anne & Zener GA Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2011
    catvines.jpg
    Sending heaps of vines.

    That LBG is a fighter, she still has things to do!
     
  12. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    @Libby and Lucy and @Jill & Alex (GA) : thank you both tremendously. The 0.4u of R is helping her and I will leave her lev dose where it is....I did increase by 0.25u this morning because of the pred and the infection and the vet discussed with me the concerns over DKA if her glucose stays too high due & considering infection, etc. She will not eat any canned food on her own and that might be because I transitioned her to home cooked food which she really likes. But the home cooked doesn’t have quite as many calories so I syringe feed her one meal with more calories and then give her home cooked for another which she licks off my hand and has been doing pretty well. She’s very good with syringe feeding so I’m confident in my ability to get it into her....and I’d have to because the home cooked is almost no carbs.

    Gracie typically onsets at +4 and she used to be a long duration kitty on the lev but since the endoscopy, all of her patterns went out the window. We are convinced that the procedure has had long-term effects on her that have not been good. I can’t figure out why they would have affected her duration and her carb sensitivity but it’s been a challenge.

    I have been studying Alex’s SS since Gracie’s numbers started going up and looking at how you did the R, Jill. Alex seemed to have a better response to the R then Gracie is having now. I gave her 0.2uR yesterday morning and she came down and was flat but when she stopped, I thought it would be a good idea to give her 0.1u to hopefully keep her from going back up but she did anyway and man alive but that’s when all this other stuff started.

    She did get some movement on this dose of R so I’ll check her and if she heads back up, I actually wonder if I should give her 0.4 again because she’s been having some serious issues with her lev duration and once she heads up, she skyrockets. I should have given her R again when we got back from the vet but we were both exhausted and I wanted her to rest without me waking her up....and I am always fearful of not waking up when I’m that tired. Hated to leave her so high but .....

    @Wendy&Neko Well...I used to have an R scale but that went out the window with these never before seen numbers and so I’m starting over. Can you PM me your R scale please just so I can get an idea of what you’re doing or you could post it here, if you like...whatever is best.

    The chemo they started her on is cyclophosphamide because of her liver. It’s a little more liver-friendly. She may change that when we see her on Monday and see what her labs are but, for now, she wanted to be respectful of the liver issues...it’s a balancing act. They haven’t ruled out that the lymphoma might have spread to her liver but they’d have to do another U/S. One thing at a time, though.

    As Liz will attest to, Tobey is either in my lap if I sit down or he’s hollering at the top of his lungs. Gracie is in her “sick spot” .....we have these large niches in the dining room and one of the lower one has some pots and she likes to get behind them. That’s how we knew something was wrong when she got FD. But when we go to check on her, she lifts her head, gives a very weak but discernible “s’up?” and purrs. If we have to get her out to feed her, etc, Tobey sits with us. He misses his playmate being able to play.

    I’ve been using the AT just to be able to give the vets a number they “get”. Although, I have found that at those really high numbers, the AT is lower than the Micro. Go figure.

    Thank you all again.....once again, we couldn’t do this without you. :bighug:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  13. Anne & Hyde (GA)

    Anne & Hyde (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2015
    Wow, I am really impressed by the knowledge and support from board members!! C'mon Gracie everybody round the world is pulling for you!!
     
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  14. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2011
    Just checking on you . . . I'm glad you've got the best possible advice here on helping Gracie through this. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  15. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    Dear Marje, I just saw this and back tracked to read the previous condo. What chemo drug did she get? Are they sure thus is SC and not LC or intermediate? Prednisolone definitely lowers the immune system that leads to infections but it does help with lymphoma. It also makes them pee and drink. For some it increases the appetite. It did that for my Mandie but not for Tiffany. I would guess the fluid buildup is taking away her appetite. I hope she feels better real soon. It's so hard but you are doing everything possible for her and being at home must be comforting to her as well. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Prayers and vines are being sent your way.
     
  16. Paula

    Paula Well-Known Member

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    Apr 19, 2014
    More prayers for Miss Gracie. Feel better soon little Gracie.:bighug::bighug:
    :bighug::bighug::bighug: Marje, Mike & Tobey.
     
  17. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Send more healing vines to Gracie and hugs to Marje!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  18. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Marje what +hour are you at now and what's the latest BG reading?
     
  19. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    +7.5 and I’ll check her. I need to feed her anyway. BRB
     
  20. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I'll be here.
     
  21. Tena and Curry(GA)

    Tena and Curry(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sending a heap of healing vines from your friends in Texas.
     
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  22. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Mike here. Marje is feeding Gracie. She is 411 on the AT and 434 on the Micro.
     
  23. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Good to know you're there, Mike.
    I'd go ahead and give her another 0.4u of R if she were mine.
     
  24. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Good to know YOU are here, Jill. Thank you :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    Okey doke....0.4uR coming up and I’ll test her at R+2 unless you think there is a reason to do it sooner.
     
  25. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    testing at +2 should be fine. :)
    Hope it pulls her down more for PMPS.
     
  26. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Me, too. We are going to run out really fast for food. Neither one of us has eaten and she’s resting....she could probably do with a two hour break but we’ll be back in an hour or so (gotta go to Whole Foods and get some more meat to make her food). I was thinking of people in the hospital and how they never get any rest for all the poking, prodding, checking of vitals and I am sure she feels that way. She is so awesome and her eyes have a spark so I know she knows we are trying to help her feel better.

    BBL but I”m watching thread if you need to contact me, I’ll get it on my phone.
     
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  27. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, please eat! You guys have to take care of yourselves, too!
    I'll be in and out. Home today (its raining and dreary) so I have Gracie's SS open on the 'puter. :)
     
  28. suki & crystal (GA)

    suki & crystal (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 4, 2014
    Continued vines and prayers for Gracie's recovery :bighug::bighug::bighug: and for her awesome beans :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  29. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Sounds great, Jill. Thank you.
     
  30. Anne & Zener GA

    Anne & Zener GA Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2011
    Yes, I will happily attest that Tobey is an excellent (and handsome) nursing assistant, a purrfect gentleman in every way. :) :) :) I will also attest to Gracie's strong spirit, she's a fighter and will definitely get over this hump. Hugs to you and Mike. :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
    Liz
     
  31. lovey11

    lovey11 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 6, 2013
    Hi Marge,

    I am sending prayers for Gracie for an excellent response to the treatment and to feel better. She has the best care. Sending prayers for you and Mike for wisdom and strength too.

    Catherine
     
  32. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:Piling on more vines, very happy to hear that you got the Stinkeye :)

    You keep on doing your part Gracie, fight LBG, the beans be doing the rest, they've got this.

    Tobey you are the sweetest non sugar cat ever :kiss:
     
  33. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:More vines and prayers. I'm glad you aren't alone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  34. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Thank you and @lovey11 so great to see you on the board!!! I hope you are all well!!

    Progress on the numbers!!! I never thought I’d be so happy to see a yellow number above renal threshold. Her weight is holding fairly steady so that’s good. Spoke with ER vet again this afternoon and she said she’s not worried about that small amount of weight as long as we see that Gracie is peeing. If Gracie is drinking a lot and not peeing and the weight goes up, then she’s retaining more fluid. She’s moving around the house a little.

    I’m so glad, once again, that we found this amazing place with amazing people to help.
     
  35. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! 260 @Lev+10 and R+2 !!!
     
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  36. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    wow!

    please don't bounce please don't bounce please don't bounce please don't bounce.
     
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  37. Michelle and Mannie (GA)

    Michelle and Mannie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hugs to you all, scritches and cuddles to our little fur-girl. Be well little one.
     
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  38. Marge, I can't help at all with any of this. Way beyond any experience I have. But I'm watching, praying, and learning.

    God bless Tobes. What a great "lil brother".
     
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  39. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    yes, please but.....remember, this is Gracie....although, before all this stuff, an R drop didn’t make her bounce like an L drop. Let’s hope that hasn’t changed.
     
  40. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Just having you all here...such a great relief. We have great vets but this stuff is really beyond what they normally do. Dr. W was very nervous yesterday about my using R but Dr. B knows we’ve been using it a long time. The ER vet was on board!
     
  41. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    and you have R to help thru the bounces...
    chin up! :)
     
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  42. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    I won’t test again until +11.5 which is one hour so we will be past her R nadir which is usually around +3.
     
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  43. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    More prayers and anti-bounce vines. Come on, Gracie. We are all behind you. More :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  44. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    yep, if she bounces you can deal with that. There's so much you can't control, but at least that is one thing you can help her with.
     
  45. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Doing a happy dance for yellow
     
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  46. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Woohoo for yellow! [​IMG] [​IMG] I'll PM you what I used for a dosing scale. I know Neko and Gracie sometimes have similar cycles (Soul Sistas) but the circumstances of the blacks are quite different so not sure how much is applicable. I had to do some more R after the high numbers to take care of bounces too. :bighug:
     
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  47. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    i'm so glad to see Mike is home now.
    Gracie is young , has so much spunk, she CAN beat this! else she couldn't negate that Lupita!
    just loading up the cargo plane full of prayers and every kind of vines......
    wish I were closer......to help......
     
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  48. carfurby (GA)

    carfurby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    I'm glad Gracie is home with you. Sending more prayers and hugs. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  49. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Marje, Mike, Gracie, and Tobey,
    Edward, Rusty and I are sending the strongest, most beautiful vines to Gracie. She is a trooper and she will get through this. I'm so glad that Libby, Jill, Wendy, Tricia and others with experience with chemo and R can help you get Gracie's dose fine-tuned.
    Sorry that we can't be of any medical help, but you know that we are thinking about Gracie and her wonderful beans and my Other Best Boy, Tobey, and sending prayers and strength to you all.

    Hugs and scritches,

    Ella, Edward, Rusty
     
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  50. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    PMPS 208 (0.75u) no R
    Looking good! Now, will she or won't she bounce?
    Whatchagonnado Miss Gracie? :cool:
     
  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Sooooo much better for PMPS!!! Thank you @Jill & Alex (GA) and @Libby and Lucy for the nudge at +7.5. And yes...what IS she going to do?

    I’m thinking we will test at +2 just so she has a break and can get some rest time in; I don’t want her rising like crazy because she has nadired with R and also likely lev (altho who knows yet) but she needs rest and healing time.

    Also thinking that if she is headed up but it’s not too bad yet, give 0.1UR? Any other thoughts/ideas if she’s going up faster? When she was more predictable, she would often see nice cycles the ones after I used R but those were to control bounces and we’re looking at different stuff now. I don’t want to let the numbers get out of hand.

    Can’t tell you how very much I appreciate the help and brainstorming with this because I’ve never had to deal with such high numbers with her or her being sick like this. And because I’m tired, i’m afraid I’ll miss some important thing i should be doing.

    Prayers for Fred.......
     
  52. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    If she's headed up, shooting a little R is the way to go.
    How about if we see where she is @+2?
     
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  53. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Will do...just didn’t want to keep you up late but I know you can be a night owl ....thankfully :):)

    See you in 2.
     
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  54. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree with Jill, let's see what she does. Trying to guess just makes things harder.

    Do you think she is feeling any better? Just curious.
     
  55. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Sounds great. Oh gee....I’m falling back into my bad newbie habits :banghead::banghead:;)

    She’s still lethargic and gets in her “sick spot” and sleeps but when we check on her, she acknowledges us and purrs. When I take her out to test her or feed her, her eyes are bright and have that sassy attitude in them. She doesn’t seem to be in any pain or discomfort...I think she just doesn’t feel good. She is doing great with the feeding by syringe and also licking food off my fingers enthusiastically but she won’t lick it off her plate for more than a few bites. I don’t care as long as she shows interest in eating.
     
  56. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm happy to hear she's eating! I'm a firm believer in getting the normal amount of food into kitty daily... if at all possible. Alex would often lick quarter-sized dollops of food off the back of my hand. I guess my hand made a better plate. I didn't care... as long as she ate! LOL!

    I'll check in periodically between now and +2 in case you want any help.
    Try to get some rest if you can. You might be up later tonight...
     
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  57. Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

    Suzanne & Cobb(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Oh goodness...I'm just doing my periodic check-in. What a day for you, Mike and LBG!

    Sending lots of healing vines and prayers your way, Marje!
     
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  58. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Anti bounce vines.
     
  59. Anne & Zener GA

    Anne & Zener GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    bounce-cat.jpg
    Don't get any ideas LBG!
     
  60. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    You all are so funny!!! Not sure yet if this is a bounce or it’s just the end of her lev.

    I’m thinking 0.1u R. Any takers?
     
  61. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hmmm, if I was sure that was a bounce I would say 0.1 sounds good (I think the 0.4u was too much, do you? Or at least with the dropping numbers today it was). I'm not sure that's what it is, though.

    hang on, looking at SS...
     
  62. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    That's what I think I'd do, most because you don't know yet if it's a bounce. You've also got the complication of NDW, which I always find to be worse with larger increases.

    Did you guys get any sleep last night? Just wondering how "fresh" you are for tonight.
     
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  63. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Thanks, Libby. Not sure how helpful the SS is right now. She hasn’t had any “normal” patterns since her endoscopy. Could be a bounce starting or could be lev duration is done. For a long time, it was evident that it was the end of the lev and she’d start back down by +3. I’d love that to be the case here and see what the lev can do but I also don’t want her back in the really bad color that shall not be named.

    I do think the 0.4u might have been a tad much since she was pretty flat.

    Not much sleep last night. I didn’t get back from ER until well after midnight and then I still had a couple feedings to be sure she got calories. Finally laid down at 1:30 and Mike got home at 3:30 and then I heard her moving around so I got up and slept on the floor by her so I could check on her. Got up at 5:30 to give her some SE/aloe vera and never could get back to sleep.

    Mike is also tired but he did get about 7 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
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  64. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm not super confident that she won't start to drop even without R. Would waiting an hour be an option? Then you'll know if she's bouncing.
     
  65. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hmmm, I'm not sure a bounce has started.
    Given that you're both tired and it's not clear she'll zoom... how do you feel about testing again in an hour?
    If she's definitely starting a bounce, I like the 0.1u dose of R idea. 0.4u seems like it was a tad too much.

    ETA: GMTA! :D
     
  66. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Sure...we can test her in an hour. I added some info about that above....how she used to be in the old days.

    Mike will likely be up until 1 anyway and that would be R+4.

    Yes...GMTA...how funny to read Libby’s and then start typing, then see Jill’s.

    Will be back in an hour.
     
  67. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Even post endoscopy she has shown some action on the second cycle of an increase. I'm just worried if you are tired and she does that and/or the meds start kicking in. I often notice second day of AB is where it starts to really work. So a third chiming in for a wait.
     
  68. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I also think that if you need some rest, 200s isn't a terrible place to leave her for a while. I think giving more R toward the end of the cycle is probably more important than giving it now. I know giving R at the very beginning of a bounce is ideal, but you have to be realistic about what you can do.
     
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  69. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    We’re totally on board with all of that. I’d love to see her come back down on her own. You all are awesome...trust you explicitly.
     
  70. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Very true but waking up enough to draw an R dose at 5 or 5:30 a.m. isn’t my shining hour. I just do not want to see her in some of the numbers she’s been in lately and never has before. Of course, as Wendy said, the a/b is kicking in and this is a pretty high lev dose for her.

    Gotta feed her. We’ll test at +3 and decide. Thank you!!!!!
     
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  71. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I hear you, I wouldn't want to draw up 0.1u of R at 5 in the morning either! I don't want you to lose control of the numbers, either by them being too high or too low. I also know what it's like to be too exhausted to trust myself. I know you would do anything for Gracie, but try not to push yourself to the point where your body says "no way, I'm done."
     
  72. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Good conversation going on here! Remember to pace yourself or you'll burn out and shut down.
     
  73. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Well that's where I was last night for sure. I figured even with R she wouldn't move much but I also knew I'd not feel comfy shooting R and not testing and we both needed to try and rest.

    I can draw 0.1u tonight before I go to bed.....
     
    Jill & Alex (GA) likes this.
  74. I was going to ask a dumb question but you just answered it.
    "Can you draw up a dose of R beforehand so you're not sleepwalking when you try it at 5am?" ;)
     
  75. mariko

    mariko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Sending more vines.
    I hope you get some rest tonight.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  76. Suzi_S

    Suzi_S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    I'm sending some more vines as well.

    Can I just say you all are amazing people!!!!
     
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  77. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    :p:p:p:p 280 @ +3. What a crack up our girl is!
     
  78. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    i'll be in the car tomorrow for 13 plus hours.....
    will be praying for you and others most of that time......
     
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  79. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    She does have a sense of humor! Looks like a vote for sleep to me.
     
  80. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    She knows we're all waiting for her to zoom! Ha!

    Marje, I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable suggesting R at this moment in time. So many variables have changed to be certain of anything she may or may not do. Personally, I'd want to see a zoom before suggesting more R.
     
  81. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm not comfortable with that either. This seems like a good time to get some rest.
     
  82. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Oh I definitely have no intention of giving her R now. I laughed when I got that number and told Mike “no R now”.

    But, I can pull up a small dose and we can check her at +9 or +10 and give 0.1u if she’s gone back up.....just something to keep her out of pink or worse. Or....we can sleep.

    If she holds to the craziness of the past few weeks, she’ll come down for a while and might even look good at +9 and then be much higher at AMPS. So I could give the R then instead.

    I’ve got just a few things to do (finish making her more food) and I’m headed to bed. Mike will feed her the next two times and test her before he comes to bed.

    Thank you all so much for being there especially this late at night. If you have any general thoughts, that would be great. I’m thinking if she’s above pink (can’t bear to say the other ones) in the morning, I should probably give her 0.3 or 0.4uR but only if she’s really high. If she’s just pink, I could scale down to 0.1u.
     
  83. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Gracie cracks me up! :rolleyes:

    Sounds to me like you have a good plan in place! I hope both of you can get some good sleep tonight.
    Will catch up to you tomorrow.
    Night-night!
     
  84. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    So many times she's done that to us!

    Hope you all rest as well. Thank you all again so very much.

    Wow....longest condo we've had since the early days. Never stop learning!
     
  85. Deanna & Billie

    Deanna & Billie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Sending many more vines for sweet Gracie, and for you and Mike, and Tobey too!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug: I hope you all get some rest tonight, and I hope tomorrow is a better day for LBG.
     
  86. If I remember the routine correctly, this is about the time we'd send the newbie to bed, Marje! ;)
    Sleep well. (you too Mike!)
    Prayers for Gracie, scritches to Tobes from me and Polly.
     
  87. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You're welcome! :)
    I did have a few flashbacks to the old days tonight... ha-ha!
     
  88. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Nah, neither one of them are newbies. They know what they're doing and would be just fine without us. It's just a little harder when it's your own kitty. It's nice to have other experienced eyes standing by.
    And on that note, I bid you all a good night! :D
     
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  89. Asrael

    Asrael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    So glad she is home with you and you guys are able to care for her! Sending vines and light that she starts to feel better soon :)
     
  90. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    in the words of the old days, ni-ni Marje and Mike.

    zzzzzzzzz.....
     
  91. suki & crystal (GA)

    suki & crystal (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2014
    Do you know I'm totally lost on all the medical side of things but I am in awe of how you and Mike are coping with this unfolding crisis. Gracie has the most amazing beans any kitty could wish for. :bighug::bighug::bighug: sleep tight.
     
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  92. Anne & Zener GA

    Anne & Zener GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    I haven't seen ni ni in a condo in so long... :bighug:

    Here's to a good healing sleep for all tonight.
     
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  93. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    It is so good to wake up and see yellow numbers for Gracie!
     
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  94. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Ditto with what Suki said! Healing vines to Gracie and hugs to you and Mike :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  95. Rachel & Chyna (GA)

    Rachel & Chyna (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    What a busy night for you all! I've been keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, with healing vines and kisses to sweet LBG:kiss:. I hope you got some rest last night:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  96. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Always fun to wake up to chit-chat on the condo :joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful: Great comments.

    @Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) yup...those were some good old days! We had fun and helped a lot of people. We were a great team!!! (Still are).

    Thanks, Jill....you are so correct. It is harder when it’s your own kitty and when you add fatigue to the mix. It’s more than nice...it is awesome to have experienced eyes helping out. Mike is great help with the lev dosing but he :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting: when it comes to R dosing so it’s a great thing for me to be able to bounce things off smarter heads than mine under this situation of sick kitty and ridiculously high numbers (and shooting R differently than I normally would).

    Love you for this, Libby. I almost said “ni ni” before I clicked off but Mike was trying to mix up her food to syringe her so I just left it.

    I really appreciate everyone’s prayers and help and the great input from Jill, Libby, and Wendy.

    On to today’s condo.
     
  97. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Thank you. The positive is we have a lot of experience caring for sick kitties over the years so have learned a lot. What we haven’t done is have a sick diabetic kitty which puts a whole new spin on it. So thankful for L/L Land.
     
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  98. Paula

    Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Tons more healing vines for LBG. :bighug::bighug::bighug: to you, Mike and Tobey.
     
  99. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Thank you Paula!!!:bighug::bighug:
     
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