? 1/15 Muffin PM Pre shot 124 , +1/137, +2/164, +3/159, +4/201

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Muffin and Marilyn, Jan 15, 2016.

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  1. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    Yesterday

    This is the second lowest AMPS reading I've gotten for Muffin. Hope I don't have a busy day!!
     
  2. Anne & Hyde (GA)

    Anne & Hyde (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2015
    Nice barely yellow PS. Surf safe for mama today, Muffin!!
     
  3. Lukewithcats

    Lukewithcats Member

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    Dec 19, 2015
    since you already fed him i would just shoot the 2.5 marilyn. The reason we would wait on feeding him is because feeding him will always raise his BG so waiting doesnt help if you feed. it takes 3 hours to get that food out his system, generally we want him to raise naturally without food so the number we shoot we know is safe as no food has been given yet which should help slow down a big drop.

    I assume you have had some time off so you can handle some lower numbers today if they come up. he should earn a reduction today if he goes low atleast.
     
  4. Lukewithcats

    Lukewithcats Member

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    after the last 2 shots he hasn't had a big drop so assuming atleast one of those shots was not a fur shot then hopefully his big drops after a shot are slowing down. all you can do it watch and see. just keep your eye on him today.

    If you are still having trouble with testing there are lots of people here who went through the same thing and can give you tips like heating the ears and using treats effectively. I was lucky that paw testing worked out so well but i was very lucky and it is not normal really. only a few of us switched to paw testing i think.
     
  5. Lukewithcats

    Lukewithcats Member

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    you should test if you haven't yet. its been awhile since the dose and the amps was fairly low.
     
  6. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    +2.5 / 368. Wow - from the food?
     
  7. Lukewithcats

    Lukewithcats Member

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    if it was his regular food then I don't think it would cause that by itself. Maybe a fur shot or he dropped low after the dose and has rebounded already or you just got a lucky low AMPS and he is still bouncing from yesterday or something I haven't thought of.

    Maybe someone with more experience can chime in. You should check him again in atleast an hour to see which way he is going then.
     
  8. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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  9. Lukewithcats

    Lukewithcats Member

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    well its good its gone down although at higher numbers the meter accuracy tends to be pretty bad so it could be in the margin of error but still a good sign. test again in an hour and see how it is then. after that you can probably relax on the testing some assuming no huge drop takes place.
     
  10. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    I think Muffin is likely still on the trampoline and bouncing, it can last up to 6 cycles, don't stress he is not in any immediate danger,it's Muffins liver reacting to those lows he saw on Jan 13, and dumping glucose into the blood stream because it thinks Muffin is in a crisis, even though the numbers are normal (this is an over simplification)

    here's the explanation from the new to the group sticky
    • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

    I think as Marje said yesterday the depot from the large doses of insulin have probably leveled off now, and that's why you are not seeing him drop so fast and low, and we are seeing the bounces. Do you know about the depot? read link here it explains it and will help you understand some of what you are seeing. Once the 6 cycles are up we will get a better idea of where this dose is actually taking Muffin, bear in mind he may clear the bounce earlier, and when some kitties clear bounces they can do it quite dramatically. I think some of the more experienced folk were of the opinion that the back to back reductions might have taken the dose a bit lower than Muffin might actually need, the feeling was that the low numbers you were seeing were being influenced by the depot from the larger dose he had been having up till then, but time will tell......

    Time to get you Patience Pants on and make the most of the Pokie Break.:)

    Keep up the good work:cat::cat::cat:
     
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  11. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    Just tested 124 and time for shot. He has not eaten for several hours. Go for usual dose??
     
  12. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    Nov 27, 2015
    Just tested 124 and time for shot. He has not eaten for several hours. Go for usual dose??
     
  13. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    just looking at your SS
     
  14. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Good news is that it appears that the bounce is breaking. Shooting will likely result in an active cycle. So are you ok to stay up, and monitor have you got HC supplies, syrup?

    With Lantus you have a couple of hours to get food in him because typically the insulin you shoot now won't start to work till somewhere between +2 and 3. I can't stay with you if you do shoot, so I don't want to encourage you to shoot, as it is the lowest pre shot you have seen so far.

    Can you stall for a bit and lets put out a call and see who might be about?
    @Marje and Gracie @julie & punkin (ga) @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko @Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
     
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  15. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Dont feed while you stall.
     
  16. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    Nov 27, 2015
    Well, I went for it - regular dose. I'll just start testing at +1 and hope for the best :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
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  17. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Great well done. I think it was the right thing to do.

    The +1 should give you an idea of where he is going if he is dropping of flat you will need to watch closely. I'm going to be about for about another 1/2 hour to hour. It's 4am over here.

    I hope he surfs for you.
     
  18. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Please be sure you do get that +1 and +2.

    It's all a learning process and you will pick up on the patterns as you go but when you see the numbers starting to come down,mid at all possible, it's a great idea to get a +10 or +11 because the 124 (while most likely is dropping) could be on the rise.

    I would be sure to feed him a good meal now...if you just shot.
     
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  19. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Hi Marilyn,
    The tests at +1 and +2 will often give you a heads-up with regard to how the cycle will play out. Normally, Lantus doesn't onset (begin to work) until after +2 and therefore the bg will normally rise until onset begins. If, however, your +1 and/or +2 readings are the same as or lower than PS, it means that the cycle will be active and you will want to stay on top of things until Muffin's bg begins to rise after he hits his nadir (the lowest number of the cycle). I have to be away from my computer for about an hour, but will check back to see how he is doing. You are doing great.

    Ella & Rusty

    p.s. I see that Marje posted just as I was getting ready to post. Glad we are all on the same page!
     
  20. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Marje and Ella. Been up with George it's 4 am and was just about to try and get some sleep before dawn. Didn't want to abandon Marilyn as it's her lowest Preshot.

    I can relax now I know she has some eyes on her
     
  21. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    Nov 27, 2015
    Thank you all. He just ate a pretty good meal. I'll keep a close eye on him to be sure!!
     
  22. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    +1 / 137 - so far so good!!
     
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  23. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    +2 / 164. Hope this is a good sign!!
     
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  24. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Lookin' good. I would test for a few more hours to see where he goes. If he drops sharply and you need to bring his bg up, feed him a little MC food (or your usual LC food with a few drops of syrup). I don't know what your feeding schedule is, but most diabetic cats do well with several small meals over the course of the day (or night) rather than 1 big meal. This keeps them on a more even track. Just feed your regular LC unless he drops too low. After nadir, go easy on the food--maybe just a snack at +9.
    You are doing just fine.

    Ella & Rusty
     
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  25. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    +3 / 159. How do I know what nadir is since his BG readings are all over the scale??
     
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  26. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Kitties don't always nadir at the same time. Some do, some don't. My Neko doesn't. Muffin seems to like to nadir in the first part of the cycle, at least if he's starting at a reasonably low enough number. Over time you'll get enough data to know when the nadir will likely be. If you see he's flat or rising in a cycle, then you know he's pretty much done dropping for that cycle.
     
  27. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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  28. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Looks like early cycle nadir again. And you can get to sleep. :)
     
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  29. Muffin and Marilyn

    Muffin and Marilyn Member

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    +5 / 246 - going to bed
     
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  30. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Good job, Marilyn. Thanks for checking on Muffin @Wendy&Neko . I wanted to stay up for Marilyn's next post, but was falling asleep at my desk around 12:30 A.M. eastern time so had to call it quits.

    Ella
     
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  31. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    nicely done!!
     
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