Going shopping wet food-Canada-Updated

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Missy, Feb 7, 2016.

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  1. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    Sorry for the amounts of new threads I have been starting, I just have so many questions.
    The transition to wet was easy everyone goes nuts for it. There has been some vomiting but I suspect some are snarfing down the food too fast(sumo is a long time snarf and barf type of guy) I am trying to get one in particular to loose weight so portion control is paramount I guess. I read the whole cat info site(nice site) So I am going to start off at 200 ish calories a day for the really fat cat and see from there. Sumo is getting more because he has wasted a bit and needs to make up muscle. We managed to find a 24 case of fancy feast liver and chicken but at 19 dollars this is getting a bit on the pricey side and inconvenient opening so many small cans. As I figure it I would need to feed about 10 cans a day for 4 cats. This would cost me aprrox 250 dollars a month!

    I am going monday to a bigger town that actually has stores. So down to my questions addressed to fellow Canadians(Quebec here) What brands offer big cans of low carb kitty food. I saw the chart listing the president choice foods but I am somewhat confused that different sizes have different ingredients. I am looking along the lines of big cans like Whiskas, PC, Friskies, Special kitty and the likes. I need to know a few flavors that are safe and economical. I know these are not super high quality but at some point I have to pick the lesser of two evils(dry vs wet). I have good quality low carb(15%) kibble coming for the healthy ones but I would like to minimize their intake of this and as I understand even low cost canned is better than any kibble. We do not have walmart type pet stores any where close to us. We can go to walmart, costco, food stores and JE mondou. We have specialty food places for animals with high end foods but it is just too expensive.

    Also any tips on calorie intake or nutrition is appreciated. So much to learn in a very small amount of time.
    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Ken & Tara

    Ken & Tara Member

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    Jan 31, 2016
    What I decided to do was look at Dr. Lisa's PDF of foods, and also Janet and Binky's list, pare them down to first choices, second choices, etc., then printed it out and keep it in my wallet so I'm prepared when I go to the stores.

    When you're at the stores, note which brands they carry, when you return home, investigate those brands for possibilities, so the next time you're shopping you are prepared with a list appropriate for the store. If what you normally buy is sold out, the wallet list is good for making a second choice on the fly.

    You'll need to learn what carbohydrates by difference is, Dr. Lisa explains. I used a spreadsheet quite a bit with sorting, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  3. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    @Ken & Tara Thanks for the link on dr.Lisa's PDF I had not seen that one. I understand a bit better what I am looking for in a food and what to avoid. I think I am over complicating things and rushing to get everything perfect. I did like the section on how to make food at home, sounds fun! Might try it out. We are lacking in stores around here but there is no shortage of butcher and farms, could be an option.
     
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  4. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    I found a food that seems ok and is quite affordable but not listed anywhere because it is a house brand. I would like someone else to give me their opinion as I am new to cat nutrition. It does not have grains as far as I can tell and using the online calculator it comes out to 1.7 wet matter carb and 7 dry matter carb( still not sure witch on I should focus on) Here are the stats:

    Meat by-products, sufficient water for processing, poultry by-products, animal liver, chicken, guar gum, salt, tricalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, added colour, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A supplement, biotin, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid), minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite), choline chloride, carrageenan, taurine.

    Crude protein (min.) 10.0%,

    crude fat (min.) 6.0%,

    crude fibre (max.) 1.5%,

    moisture (max.) 78.0%,

    ash (max.) 2.7%,

    taurine (min.) 0.05%


    Calorie content (ME Calculated): 1,188 kcal/kg or 185 kcal/can

    Thank for any insight
     
  5. Ferndoc

    Ferndoc Member

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    Dec 20, 2015
    The ingredients look good to me I do know some cats don't do well with carrageenan.
     
  6. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    I looked at all the cat food brands I could afford and none were free of carrageenan...Kind of dissapointing. The ones that did not have it were full of wheat, corn and the likes. I sure hope they take this out of pet food. I will still continue to hunt down new types that may be more local because I am not having good luck with big brands.
     
  7. Ferndoc

    Ferndoc Member

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I understand that. Currently my main food is the Petsmart house brand which I have mixed feelings about. I'm trying a few intermediate price ones as well but with 3 cats I'm not willing to pay $3 a can. I did get lucky and score 18 cans of Natural instinct duck for $0.75 a can today. They seem to think it tastes just fine.
     
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  8. Ken & Tara

    Ken & Tara Member

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    @Missy : I thought you might find this useful, "Pet Food Labels - General", perhaps I should say I found it informative.

    So, I wondered if my calculations would agree with your online calculator regarding carbohydrates on a dry matter basis. I calculated 9%. Maybe I made a mistake.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    The only large cans I have ever seen here in Ontario (Toronto area) have been Friskies and believe it or not they were being sold in Dollarama. I have a kibble addict sugar cat so didn't really check the label to see if it was a suitable formula of Friskies or not. I know there are Dollarama stores in Quebec but maybe not near you? I don't recall seeing large cans anywhere else but I wasn't looking as my canned food eaters are on Fancy Feast which is in tiny little cans.

    While carrageenan is not ideal, it's way down on the ingredient list on the food you found so it should be OK unless one of your clowder is sensitive to it.:)
     
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  10. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    I was looking at the wrong box and I think I might have not entered a value correctly. Did it again and I'm getting 1.7 wet matter and 8 dry matter.
    Manually I'm getting 10+6+1.5+78+2.7=98.2 100-98.2=1.8 wet matter 100-78=22 1.8/22=0.08x100=8 dry matter carb That is if my formula is correct and also my math, both could be wrong :)
     
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  11. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    After reading up on Carrageenan I am confused as to why this is in cat food..I hope they discontinue it at some point. Hoping there is not too much in there.
    I did go look at a dollar store but they had the weirdest brand I have ever seen and it looked terrible. I usually make a trek to a dollarama once a month to stock up on stuff, will look next time. I did look at friskies and bought some today at walmart but after reading many labels all the big cans had rice in them, is this a carb?
    The other one I bought today was O'select 374 gram can of chef's meal. It is the one from the ingredients above. I got 12 for 11.49! And this is the long ongoing promotion price that the lady said was pretty much permanent. So far everybody went nuts for it, well they go nuts for all soft food they are not difficult. They do sell it online for the same price and free shipping in Canada on 70$ of purchases. I hope it works out long term. They also had a chicken one in a big can but it has rice in it.
    https://www.mondou.com/en-CA/p-chefs-meal-wet-food-for-adult-cats/1018629-MASTER/1018633
    Might be an option for cash strapped multi-cat Canadians well at least for people in Quebec.
     
  12. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    The Friskies pates have a few flavors with a little rice in them, but it's so far down on the ingredient list that they are still considered low carb

    A lot of those O'select look pretty good looking at their ingredients....just avoid the flavors "In gravy" or "in sauce" and you're usually going to be OK
     
  13. Ken & Tara

    Ken & Tara Member

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    Jan 31, 2016
    Your numbers look correct to me. :cat: I checked my error and I had inadvertently rounded 1.8 to 2 (spreadsheet formatting). With correction, now I'm getting carbs of 8.18% dry matter basis.

    Some of the canned cat foods are as high as 30% carbs on that basis, so your choice is in the lower third.

    The option of homemade requires a grinder, kinda pricey for those.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  14. Randi & Max (GA)

    Randi & Max (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Missy. Welcome to FDMB. Where in Quebec are you? I am in Montreal and always did struggle with food choices here.
    I understand your concern about the cost. Fancy Feast was my favourite to use but it is pricey.
    Here are some choices
    Friskies, Special Kitty (walmart brand) presidents choice. I never used O'select whoch I guess is Mondu's brand. They are small cans right?
    Only look at pate/classic types, no gravy.
    How many kitties are you feeding?
     
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  15. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Thank you for the welcome.I am close to the US border in Lacolle. Yep fancy feast would come out to 200+ a month for my 4 kitties and that was being conservative with the portions. I must say fancy feast in generally a bit lower carbs but O'select is still in a safe range and seems better than friskies and special kitty. I could not find a big or medium can without wheat middlings(special kitty) rice (friskies,pc). The O'select comes in fancy feast sized cans, medium 156g and large 374g. There is many flavors in the small and med cans and the small cans look as good as fancy feast. You can get 24 small premium can for 11.49. I did not calculate all the values for all flavors yet but as an example the chicken and liver small can has no carrageenan or grains and round out to 5 percent dry matter carb, same a fancy feast.
    They is no review anywhere on the stuff but I did find a woman in Quebec that has been feeding this long term on a diabetic and he is now in remission. She has had no problems and their coats are shiny. I'm going to stick with it for a while and see. Some did not go crazy for special kitty or friskies but everyone loves O'select so far but my cats are not finicky.
     
  16. Randi & Max (GA)

    Randi & Max (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    That's great to hear. Too bad the dollar is so bad. You could have gone into Plattsburgh to stock up but now is a really bad time. I used to go when the dollar was even.
    I will check out the Oselect too. My diabetic Max passed a few years ago but I still only feed grain free, low carb food to my other 4 cats.
    I was not fond of special kitty either.
     
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  17. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    For anybody that may visit this thread in the future the website values for the o'select chef's meal are not correct and with using the info on the can the dry matter carbs are at 2.72 and wet matter 0.6. That's pretty darn low! Great stuff cat's love it.
     
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  18. shakiigrrl

    shakiigrrl New Member

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    Feb 23, 2016
    Hi, (my first post here)
    Looking to change my newly diagnosed Suzy 10yrs old. Just starting the learn about this illness and figuring out what to do. We have gone over all the possibilities and we just can't affoard all the insulin and especially ALL the vet appointment a for retesting and monitoring...especially in the beginning. ( we also have 4 cats) So I have decided to make my girl and comfortable as possible and this starts with changing her food. Now the best I found online was a wet food called Bozita but that doesn't exist here in Canada... So I'm off to a discouraging start, now I see you talking about Fancy Feast and Oselect.... These are 2 can foods that are low in carbohydrates? Do you feed your cat 100% wet in this case? I am hoping to bring down her sugar levels and in turn this makes her feel better. I have been feeding them the Vetdiet senior kibble for about a year now and before that it was Authority (changed just because Authirity doesn't make the big format of senior food) which all cats need.
     
  19. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    Hello shakiigrll and welcome to the group. I am very new to all this myself but the people here are very nice and will always do their best to answer questions. I can very much relate to the money issue, it can get to be quite expensive at first. Changing foods can have a dramatic impact on the blood glucose levels and it would be very important to feed Suzy low carb foods. Unfortunatly kibble is very high in carb and you should try to transitions Suzy to wet food. Not all wet foods are low carb, those with sauce or gravy are very high. You want to avoid all grains and rice as well. There is a few flavors of O'select that are low carb and grain free and is very reasonable on price. There is many flavors in big brands that will do. If you want I can list you the O'select flavors tomorrow as I don't have my list on me right now. Searching this forum there is many topics about food and you will learn what to look for in a food.
    Don't be afraid to make a topic in the main health forum, people are really nice and will do their best to answer you.
     
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  20. shakiigrrl

    shakiigrrl New Member

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    Feb 23, 2016
    Tank you sonmuch for the reply.It is overwhelming but I am reading a lot and feel a little less alone about not jumping on the insulin resistance right away, as based on my vet she might be too far into the disease and he warned me it would be extremely expensive since she is really high and not much weight too lose therefore his opinion is that remission in her case would be very unlikely. So hard to accept but I just want her to be well and not suffer and bringing down her sugar even just a little could make her feel a little more comfortable.
     
  21. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    @shakiigrrl Since you are feeding vet diet kibble I assume you are in Quebec, I think that is exclusive to Mondou. The o'select line at mondou is very affordable especially since you have four cats like me. They have quantity specials and you get two times the calin points when you buy O'select. You can get 12 times 374 gram for 11.49$-24 times 156 grams for 11.49 or 24 fancy feast sized 85 grams for 11.49. The following list the foods that are low carb and grain free from lowest carb to highest but they are still in ok range for diabetic kitties. I calculated the value from the numbers on the can but I have contacted mondou to know the true values(waiting for response).

    Chef's meal 374g and 156g (this one is very low carb. I use it as a base for feeding but it is a bit bland so I mix half a 156g or a whole 85g of a tastier flavor in it. This way you save money because chef's meal comes in a big can and you limit how many small tastier can you use)
    Salmon filet 85g
    Seafood delight 85g
    Chicken feast 85g
    Turkey giblet 85g
    Whitefish tuna 85g
    Liver chicken 85g
    Beef feast 85g
    Chicken salmon 156g
    Turkey giblet 156g
    There are other flavors that seems ok but I have not bought them and have not calculated the carb for them.
    Whitefish tuna 156g
    Seafood dinner 156g


    I wish there was more flavors and less seafood ones. You might want to limit the fish and seafood because they can cause urinary problems long term and they are addictive to kitties :)
    Many other brands will do as well. Fancy feast pate are good but end up very expensive for 4 cats. But if you only use them to flavor the chef's meal it's not too bad. I also buy special kitty savory grill 374 gram from walmart. There might be ok flavors as well in special kitty but in big cans it's the only one without wheat.
    If you must feed kibble because of a kibble addict I suggest changing types. I still give kibble to one cat that is not diabetic because he is having a hard time switching over to 100% wet. My diabetic cat and the other fat one thankfully cannot jump very high so I leave the kibble out on a counter. The lowest carb kibble you can find in quebec that is somewhat affordable is Go fit and free by petcurean, it is about 15 percent carb. For diabetics we try to give as low as possible but below 10 is acceptable. The vet diet you are feeding now is about 42%. Vet diet also makes the high protein one that is 18 percent but it is fish based.
    I also could not afford insulin right away(but if things get worse we might have to) We did try glyburide, it is a pill. Many do not recomend this as it forces the pancreas to work harder and might prevent remission. If you do give glyburide please do home testing. They could drop low and as I understand it is very hard to reverse a hypo episode on this pill. We gave glyburide for 2-3 weeks and did diet changes and in the last couple of days his blood sugar is almost normal so I don't feel comfortable giving it. Testing at home is crucial or you might end up with an emergency situation. But if kitty is still eating good I would switch it to wet as soon as possible, it cannot hurt.
    Hope your little kitty feels better soon. Give her all your love and do your best. It can be overwhelming at first I know.
    Keep me update and feel free to ask me questions, I am new as well and trying to figure everything out.
     
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    @shakiigrrl

    Hi shakiigrrl and welcome to FDMB. Glad to hear you are going to change Suzy's diet and that could have a dramatic impact on her BG levels so doing this before introducing insulin or any other treatment is a good start. If however your cat's BG is very high and you do not treat very soon, you are running the risk of diabetic ketoacidosis which can be fatal and getting a cat through DKA will mean major vet bills and considerable time and effort on your part. Untreated diabetes causes the body to feed off itself because the cat can't use the food they eat to get the energy their body needs. That's why there is weight loss. There have been a lot of kitties in really bad shape brought back to a good quality of health with appropriate care. How much weight has your kitty lost?

    I'm not sure what your vet means by that statement. The dose of insulin required to regulate a cat does not depend on how high their reading at the vet's office is. It depends on how their body reacts to the insulin and the only way to figure that out is to start with a very small dose of insulin and home test your cat to see how low that small dose takes their BG. You then increase or decrease the dose based on your home readings. Whatever your cat's readings were in the vet's office, it's a good bet they were elevated possibly by as much as 5 or even 10 mmol. Do you know what the reading was at the vet?

    If you decide to try insulin and the vet prescribes anything over 1 unit to start, please check in here before giving the insulin. We often find vets prescribing too much insulin and that can be very dangerous too! While the initial expense for insulin may seem high, the amount of insulin you get will last for a long time. At a hefty normal dose of one of the higher priced insulins, the cost would be in the neighbourhood of $11-$15/month. If like most cats, your cat needed tiny doses, the cost could be even lower. The major cost is in testing but if you choose to learn to home test we can recommend an economical meter and strips and this will also mean you will not have to pay the vet to do the monitoring so in the long run, it's far cheaper to treat and test your cat at home.

    Please feel free to start your own thread with any questions you might have. You'll get more responses that way to your specific concerns. Here's a link to where you can do that. We'd love to help you help your kitty. Hope to see you around! :)
     
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  23. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    I must add that my kitty is doing ok now. Changing his food seems to have helped him quite a bit. He has been in normal ranges for days. If he starts going up again we are going on insulin, I do not want to mess around with this glyburide anymore. Yes it does cost a bit to get the insulin but it will last pretty long and as Mrworfmen's mom mentioned it probably comes out to 15 dollars a month. Glyburide is about the same price per month or even more expensive. At 0.625mg a day a 16 day supply was 10 dollars and this is the lowest dose possible. Testing is pretty expensive but I found a guy in montreal on ebay that sells strips for 50 percent off what the pharmacy sells them( I love this guy) I can give you the link if you want. Pill or insulin home testing is very important.
    I would also be curious as to what the number where at the vet. They can go much higher there because of stress. How much weight has kitty lost? Feed her many small meals a day of soft food, add warm water to it if she prefers.
    Keep us updated
     
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  24. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    @Missy So glad to hear Sumo is staying in normal ranges. Sometimes all it takes is getting kitty onto a good low carb diet. Perhaps the Glyburide helped it along but I'm betting most of the drop was food related. Fingers crossed he keeps trucking along in the normal ranges.

    One word of caution......depending on the meter you are using, there have been some "counterfeit" strips for some meters (not necessarily yours) in the past so just be sure the guy selling strips at half price is legit!
     
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  25. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    @MrWorfMen's Mom Me too! He stayed under 8 yesterday and under 6 today! Yeah I think the food did more than the pill ever did or maybe it gave his pancreas a wake up call,lol. His little pancreas had had enough of that high carb kibble that's for sure. I am crossing my fingers he stays like this.

    Yeah I saw people were selling counterfeit strip and I was worried this was the case. He has 100 percent positive reviews on ebay so I'm going to order some to see. Do you know how to tell if they are counterfeit? Can you call the manifacturer to confirm the batch number or something?
     
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Quite honestly, I just saw a notation about this on the internet somewhere and it might have been for some obsolete or US meter we don't even have here. Just wanted you to be cautious. You know, better safe than sorry! They mentioned that the readings were not accurate on the counterfeit strips and the only way to really check things out would be to test the same sample from Sumo with his strips and the store bought ones and see if the readings are within 15%. On the same drop of blood I'd expect they should come in at less than 15% difference in comparison. If you do this, get the bead of blood from Sumo's ear on your finger nail 'cause chances are good he ain't gonna sit still while you putz with changing strips in the meter. ;) You can safely test from your finger nail but just make sure you wash your hands before testing to avoid any contamination of the sample.

    I certainly hope you have found an honest bargain! Also check the expiry date on the strips. While nothing expires on exactly the date it states on the package like an off switch, if they are too old, that could be a problem. :)
     
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  27. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    Found a guide on the glucometer I am using on their site talking about counterfeit strips. I know what to look for and will for sure do the comparison like you mentioned. The seller on ebay has better expiration dates than the ones I got at my local pharmacy, they expire in 2017 and the one I got are only good for another 4 months. I live in a very rural area and I don't think many people are diabetic around here or use the meter I have. I have to admit his prices seem to good to be true.
     
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  28. Janelle

    Janelle Member

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    Jan 21, 2016
    Hi all! Tested my cats sugar w new test strips. Code on bottle is 37 for cats, but old strip code was 38. For those stips, vet tech advised me to set code on alpha track 2 meter to 08. Not sure what code to use for new test strips w code 37! When I tested cats sugar just now it read 24! Have never gotten a reading that low, and my cat is acting very normal! No signs of distress! He is eating now. Should I test his blood again later? Does anyone know what code should be for strips that say 37 for cats on the vial ? This has never happened to me before! My cat Trooper was diagnosed as diabetic in late Jan. This is my first post! Im sorry if I did something wrong or posted in wrong place!
     
  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Go Sumo! Fingers and paws crossed here, too.


    Mogs
     
  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Janelle, 24 is dangerously low. You need to give your cat some honey or karo STRAIGHT AWAY and test again in 15 minutes. Monitor clinical signs very carefully. I'm going to start a new thread for you on Feline Health. I will post the link here shortly.


    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/



    Mogs
     
  31. Missy

    Missy Member

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    Feb 3, 2016
    @Janelle Are you in Canada? Are you mesuring in mmol or mg/dl? 24 would be pretty high in mmol but very low in mg/dl. Don't give kitty syrup if it is in mmol. If you are in mg/dl please do as Critter mom suggested.
     
  32. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    @Missy - very good question about which units.

    @Janelle - Missy is right. If you are measuring in mmol/L then that would be a high number. If you are measuring in mg/dL 24 is very low and you need to intervene to raise blood glucose level.

    I have posted a 911 alert thread for you to be on the safe side. Here is the link:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...bers-24-on-alphatrak-help-needed-asap.153275/


    I have asked for members to help you. Please can you click the link above to go to the new thread and check for replies from members trying to assist you.



    Mogs
    .
     
  33. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Hi Janelle. I will help you out. Let us know which measure you are using or where you are located so we will know what to advice!
    You are not alone!
     
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  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok Janelle, Just read through your first post. You need to be sure your meter is set to code 37. I assume you are using an AlphaTrak2 meter. Where are you located? And don't worry about posting in the wrong place. We will help you!
     
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  35. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Once you get the meter set to code you need to test again to get a more accurate reading. To set the code you need to insert a strip and when the code 38 pops onto the screen, hit the M or C buttons to change it to 37.
     
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