Frustrations with vet - says TR method is wrong:(

Hi all,

I guess I'm looking for some encouragement and perhaps some mutual understanding. I just had a really frustrating conversation with my vet who said I should never be changing the dose after 4 days. She says you only change every 10 days minimum. I told I am following the TR method and belong to this forum. I also said that I'm being safe by taking min 4 BG per day. She said im micro managing my cat and changing the dose like that is wrong, basically that TR method is wrong She's not bothered if I take BG's often and says its unnessasary. She'd basically just supports a one day curve and then random spot checks and you stick with one dose for 10 days at a time. Her and her colleague would have been shoot without knowing tinka's BG which is just crazy. I told her I'm not comfortable doing that and I want to check 4 times a day so I have data and know what she's at before shooting. She seems to think that changing dose that often on TR method means we can't reliably see what affect the insulin is having as she says lots of things can affect BG outside of food and insulin so if you change that often the body doesn't have time to adjust.

Anyways I'm obviously not going to follow her advise. But I'm wondering why she has such an issue with me changing the dose every 6-8 cycles. I told her im changing it as per TR method as Tinkas nadirs are above 200 and under 300. Prior to this I did do about 7 days as she was new to nadirs under 200. See my updated SS. My point is im not being flippent and Im working hard to do TR method as I want best chance of remission for Tinka and it's just disappointing and frustrating getting told off by my vet. She was really annoyed at me. But it's my cat and I trust this forum and feel safe in what I have been doing and posting for advise here, I'm well supported so I'd rather stick to following TR and being on this forum then just randomly sitting at a dose for 10 days while tinkas BG gets out of control and I rarely monitor. That does not seem right to me. Has anyone else had similar issues with their vets? Do vets not know about the TR method?

I'm also switching from pred (steroids) to apoquel and my understanding was she wanted Tinka weaned of pred asap as that's what she said a few days ago but now today she tells me there's no rush to get her off pred and best to get itch under control. I agree with the latter but it is affecting her BG and she just says if Tinka needs higher doses of insulin that's fine. Well that's exactly why im doing TR method becayse she us currently requiring higher insulin levels as we've seen a big increase in her BG from the steroids. She says apoquel can take a week to a month to work so Tinka is now on both apoquel and steroid for coast few days. So now I have to increase the pred again apparently till she has no itch and then maintain dose then taper slowly which will take quite a while prob like 3 weeks. So that's rather disappointing too that she'll have to be on pred a while longer. Anyways if you've read this far thanks for the support!

 

I'm sorry your vet is making this so difficult. For now if my cat I would nod my head, agree with her, and follow TR. once your cat is tightly controlled or in remission you can show her the ss. That's what I would do anyhow.

 

What you experienced is very common unfortunately. We've all become good at nodding out heads like Elise mentioned above. The pred is a factor and all you can do is try to adjust the dose like you have been.

 

Thank you Tiff, thats is pretty much what I did just said ok sure on the phone and they have no interest in seeing my SS which is good now cause I don't want have to discuss further as I'm sticking with TR. Thats a good idea once Tinka is tightly controlled or in remission I'll show her Tinka's SS. What does your vet say about TR? Its not the first time I've had advise from her that I believe to be unsound. Wish I could work with a more supportive vet but at the end of the day I have a wonderfully supportive group here Thanks again!

 

Thanks Karen, good to know I'm not alone in this but sad to hear its all too common. Thank you for your support I really appreciate it!!

 

I won't bore you of details with Doodles diabetes journey and multiple vets. I'm not as good at nodding my head but getting there . All I can say is this forum has saved Doodles and the vets advise before hand lets just say...was a disaster. Hang in there.

 

Thanks Karen, I too struggle with nodding my head hence the frustration. Thats so encouraging to hear the forum has helped save Doodles! I've had such amazing support on here too and great advise, I feel very blessed to have found this forum and everyone on here. Makes up for the bad advise and lack of support from silly vets! Thanks for the support I appreciate it

 

Vets that don't know TR and aren't used to clients home testing are often worried about TR. I got past it with my vet by giving him a copy of the protocol (there's a copy in the TR sticky) and having an earnest conversation. I explained that I'd done my research and that I believed that TR was the best chance for remission and that I felt I could do it safely because I was home testing and that I really didn't have a choice because I believed it was best for my cat. He got on board after a few weeks and left the diabetes to me - mind you he was interested in our spreadsheet so he got to see for himself that it was safe. I think it helps vets to see that what you're doing is based on a study not just on the say so of some 'crazy internet cat people'.

If I needed to see someone other than his regular vet I adopted the nod and smile (through gritted teeth) routine.

 

Hi Tanya,
I've changed vets so many times over the years, it's not even funny... all because they gave me the same kind of lectures and weren't open to learning anything new. Fortunately, I have FINALLY found a great vet who works with me. I have found that a lot of vets don't really know a lot about the daily management of diabetes. I swear, they must spend 5 minutes on this in Vet school. I know that vets need to know a LOT of things about a LOT of things, but diabetes management seems to slip by the wayside for a lot of vets I've met.

Flame had horrible diarrhea, non stop 8 years ago for months and months on end. The only thing the vets told me was... Oh, he must have IBD, maybe he has intestinal lymphoma, one even told me he might have FIP and was going to die! They gave me a bag of DRY Hills ZD food, a prescription for predinisone and Flagyl and sent me on my way. A few months later, due to this treatment, Flame became diabetic.

The vet that was treating him wanted to up his dose to 3 units because of 1 day of bad numbers, told me not to test so much also, and that raw food would kill my cat !! Fortunately, I found the FDMB because I'm convinced that dose would have just about killed him. A kind member nearby came and showed me how to test and give insulin, coached me, got me to get him off that horrible food and onto high quality, low carb food and guess what? The diarrhea was caused by a food allergy to grains and gluten the WHOLE time!! A week after I changed his food, his diarrhea stopped and never came back!
I came here daily to post and get advice and support and Flame went OTJ in 3 months that time!!
This board saved Flame's life!!

He is back on the juice now because of Pred use due to asthma so his diabetes came back.

So, no you are not alone. I think many of us have had bad experiences with vets. You are correct, Tinka is your cat.. you know your cat better than anyone. If necessary, you may have to change vets. I did, many times, until I found one I trusted. Bottom line is trust yourself and I believe with all my heart you can trust the people here! Keep doing what you're doing! You are a good mama!!

 

When Max started the dance I wasn't going to test. Then one day my vet handed me the needle while in his office and he created a monster tester. I sent him a weekly ss at first. Soon we didn't discuss insulin dosing at all with all Max's other issues. He showed his students that rotated through his office my ss. When I lost Max, not to diabetes, he sent me a note that nobody in his 30+ years of practice did as well at managing diabetes as I did. He's a rare bird, a boarded internal medicine vet without a big head or attitude. He's spoiled me should he retire as he and I were partners in Max's care.

 

Thank you for sharing your journey! Maybe I will try this with my vet in the near future. She was very adament on the phone today bascially telling me what I'm doing is stupid, saying I appreciate your research but its wrong and she hasn't even seen it. Hopefully a study will help her see that's its not just my own research but its based on studies. For today though I did the over the phone "sure ok" through gritted teeth too and now I'm going to keep doing what I was doing with TR Good to know I'm not alone in this seems all to common. Thanks for the advise and encouragement!

 

Wow Donna what an amazing journey you have had, made me teary just reading about it and how members on here came to coach and help you, its just so wonderful to have such caring folk on here! So wonderful to here how Flame has improved with diet changes and following advise on here. Tink is now on a raw food diet too and is loving it and picking up weight and her coat is shiny etc. Just need to figure out what is flaring the skin allergies. She was on science plan and royal canine in the past too. I'm convinced that and continuous vaccines and dewormers and pred have weaked her immune system. For now i'm using pred but hoping the apoquel will be effective on its on in the next few weeks. But I'd love to find a better vet, but we literally have one clinic where I live so I'd need to travel about an hour and a half to the nearest city. I'm looking there to find a good vet thats a vet dermatologist too and can do environmental and food allergy tests. Not sure how they'll be but I can only keep trying to find someone good and that is supportive of TR. Right now I'm trying to do find a novel raw food so I can try an elimination diet with tinka to see what foods she's allergic too. She's currently on rabbit and pork, nothing else added just protein, meat and bone, but I need a single protein so looking into that. Before she was on canned and before that kibble. So wondeful to hear you've found a great vet who works with you thats encouraging to hear there are some out there! So grateful for this forum too and so great to hear Flames journey on here!

 

Thanks for sharing your journey with Max Thats so awesome he used your SS to show others and that he gave you that great feedback. What a rare and wonderful find, great to hear there are some open minded and really caring vets out there! Hoping a can find one like this in the future too But either way if I don't I'm blessed that have you all on here, best support, thank you all!!

 

You are Tinka's caregriver 24/7 and you know Tinka better than anyone else so YOU have to be comfortable with how you handle the situation. If this were my vet, I'd ask her one question. Would she give insulin to a baby without first checking to make sure it was safe to do so? Anyone with any logic would never blindly dose a child with insulin and your cat is basically just that...the equivalent of a baby who needs insulin. My personal gauge of a medical professional's "expertise" is whether they dictate orders and refuse to consider other options or will work with you in partnership and in your case, your vet seems to think her way is the only way. How many diabetic cats has she treated/is she treating now? Most don't have that many and this isn't a one size fits all disease. I agree with Elise....simply nod and carry on as you deem appropriate. What you do at home is entirely up to you. In most cases, your vet is not going to be available 24/7 to deal with any emergencies that might occur as a result of her chosen method of treatment.

I am lucky to have found a vet who immediately had me testing but she didn't think I needed to test nearly as much as I do and I am not as test happy as some folks. I have a rare cat who has IAA which is a high dose condition and my vet had never faced that challenge before. A consult with a so called specialist in Texas also did nothing to improve the situation. Thanks to FDMB, our recent yearly vet visit got kudos from my vet as I have managed to get my girl down to 5.25u from a high of 16u twice daily and I am still hopeful she may drop a little more. In short, my vet has come to appreciate that my somewhat customized method keeps my girl safe and has lowered her insulin requirements by 2/3s.

 

You are doing an awesome job taking care of Tinka. Trust your gut about what's best for your sweet kitty and stick to your guns with the vet. The folks here are amazing.
Liz

 

Thanks so much for the encouragement I really appreciate it! I agree unfortunately my vet seems to have a its her way or the high way approach, but as you said and I agree its my cat and how I dose at home is entirely up to me. Thanks for sharing your journey, its so wonderul to hear of your girl's improvements and that how vet has come to appreciate what you're doing thats so great!

 

Thank you Liz I appreciate the support! Gona stick with my gut as I've been really pleased how things are going so far and amazed by the wonderful support and knowledge from everyone on here! Sucks to not have a supportive vet but I'm so grateful to have you all on this group and I feel confident that Tinka and I are both in good hands

 

Add me to the "nod head and smile" brigade!! We're on vet #5 due to the stupidity and hardheadedness of the vets around here....and she's over an hour away!!!

She's not familiar with TR either, and still thinks China would do better if I'd just feed "this special diabetic cat food they sell there", but I just say something like "I'll think about it" and come straight back here and listen to the real professionals!!

China has never been back to a vet for anything to do with her diabetes since we got the diagnosis (vet#1) and I found a vet willing to give me the script for Lantus (vet#3) . Her current vet knows she's diabetic (of course) and has done several dentals and nursed China through a bad URI, but when it comes to the diabetes, I don't want or seek out her approval or advice

ETA...I don't know how much "better" China could be doing other than going into remission!

 

I think my journey with my truly wonderful vet, is a little unusual. She urged me to home test, practically insisted that I do it. When I found this group and told her about it she was quiet. I showed her some pertinent information about TR, and she was interested. Since then, when she or I disagree with one another, the disagreeing one sometimes uses the enigmatic smile and quiet head nodding option. Mutual respect has saved us from what so many others here have gone through.

 

Thanks so much everyone its great to know I'm not alone in experiencing this and I'm really grateful to have all your support on this group, you all are an incredibly blessing! Thanks for all you

Thanks for sharing Chris, sounds like you have had quite the journey too!! At least we're not alone in this. I wont be taking diabetic advise from vet any longer either. I'll maybe show her tinka's SS at a later date to show her Tinka's success. But if she doesn't agree that fine i'm not going to be pushed into doing something I know is wrong. I want my baby safe and I feel very safe on this group and doing TR. You are one of the many people who have helped us from day one and I'm so grateful to you all!

 

Thanks so much everyone its great to know I'm not alone in experiencing this and I'm really grateful to have all your support on this group, you all are an incredibly blessing! Thanks for all you do, Tinka and I really appreciate it!

 

I'm late to the party, but I have to share my story. When Cinco was diagnosed, I knew nothing about FD. The vet that was treating him taught us how to give insulin and said to bring him back in a week for a curve. That went on for a couple of weeks, with her increasing the dose each time. Then Cinco got DKA and was very, very sick. The vet wanted to euthanize him, but he got stabilized and we brought him home. We struggled with his issues - he was so weak he couldn't get up to go to the lb and had urine scald on both his back legs. One day after a vet visit, where she again urged euthanization, we gave him his insulin and left for our bowling league. On the way there we talked about it and agreed that we would let him go the next day. When we got home, he was standing up in his cage and meowing! We took that as a sign he wanted to fight. A friend told me about her daughter and how she'd found this wonderful website full of knowledgeable, caring people who had helped her save her cat. The daughter, whose cat had crossed due to CKD, sent me her meter and supplies and told me how to do the spreadsheet, etc. I joined up and started following the advice I received here, and Cinco not only got better, but he went OTJ in a couple of months! I switched vets to UC Davis, the #1 vet school in the country, and went round and round with the Internal Medicine vet about how I was testing too much and letting him get too low. I managed to get an appointment with Dr. Richard Nelson, who at that time was the head of the department. He is a noted endocrinologist that does a lot of research on diabetes in cats and dogs (and he is acquainted with Jaque Rand, one of the authors of TR). He didn't seem many patients, in fact I think Cinco was his last before he retired. He examined Cinco, looked at the SS and told me I was doing a great job and to keep doing what I was doing. I made him tell the IM that, and although I could tell she disagreed, she never gave me a hard time again. I switched Cinco to another vet, anyway, who respects me and how hard I've always worked to take care of my cats. She never questioned anything I did regarding FD and wrote my scripts without batting an eye.

While we were at UCD, one of the third year vet students there told me that they get FIVE HOURS of training on diabetes - and that covers both cats and dogs! So you see, it's not surprising that most vets don't know a lot about it. They have to study a bunch of different diseases and conditions in multiple species. A typical vet probably doesn't have very many, if any, patients with FD, and even fewer whose owners get into it the way we do - sadly many people opt for euthanization rather than the hassle of treating. So now you are part of the Nod and Smile Brigade. Try to keep a good relationship with a vet, because you need that prescription for insulin, and you will need him or her for other issues, but don't volunteer any info about how Tinka's doing, except "she's great"!

 

I don't have much to chime in except to add that when you have a vet who is at least open to possibilities instead of being of the arrogant head-stuck-in- sand mindset, that's s big step in the right direction for everyone's progress.

And @Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey @Kathy and TiTi @Chris & China @Doodles & Karen : how wonderfully shared and stated, yes so true.

 

My story is very similar. I had a vet who, at first, wouldn't even test Squallie for diabetes when I told her I was pretty sure that was what he had. When she finally diagnosed him she put him on Vetsulin and had me bringing him in every couple of days so she could test hid bg. She didn't want me to home test, and when I pushed the issue she made me test by drawing blood with a syringe from a vein in his leg! I asked about ear testing and she told me it was too painful and not accurate. (Needless to say, I ignored this and started testing his ear on my own, using a human meter, which she also told me not to do!) She pushed me into buying some very expensive "prescription" food from her, because she said that was the only appropriate food for a diabetic cat. Of course, his bg rose and at one point she had him on 7 units twice a day! When I joined FDMB and realized how awful that "prescription" food was, I started feeding Fancy Feast Classics and his bg came down dramatically. If I had listened to her and not tested, Squallie would probably have died early on in his treatment when his bg dropped to 22. I am so glad I didn't listen to her! At a later visit I guessthey realized I hadn't been buying food from them because the first thing the receptionist asked was what was I feeding him and, not thinking about the consequences, I told her Fancy Feast; she raked me over the coals, right there at the reception desk, in front of all the other customers, then went off to tell the vet, who then raked me over the coals in the exam room! The vet said I was feeding him junk food, and was testing him way too much. She ended the conversation by telling me I was going to kill him.

I never went back.

I was lucky enough to find an awesome vet (farther away but so worth the travel) who lets me do my own thing with the diabetes treatment. He's there if I need him, but so far I haven't, and he's never actually treated Squall for his FD. He does have a hard time wrapping his head around the human meter, but he's finally come to terms with it, although I know it gives him the heebie-jeebies when he sees numbers below 100 on my ss, lol! I gave him a link to my ss so he can check it out any time he feels like it, and so he has quick access to it if I have a problem. I also sent him a link to the Roomp-Rand study, so he could better understand what I was doing.

If you can't get your vet on board with your treatment you will end up doing lots of biting your tongue and nodding your head, lol. I'm not much good at biting my tongue, so finding another vet was the best option for me.

 

Thank you Tricia for sharing your and Cinco's journey! Wow it made me so teary to hear how he was saved. What a wonderful group we have here I! Thank you for your support and advise. I will def try to maintain a relationship so I can keep getting the insulin but I won't share Tinka diabetes info anymore as unfortunately the vet is just not on board. It's really sad that they get so little training. Well at least we have such an informative forum here, I'm so happy to have found this amazing group

 

Aren't you in Canada?? Insulin is OTC there so you wouldn't need your vet for your insulin script either

 

Thank you for sharing your journey what a stressful time you went through and such awful advise. I'm so glad you found FDMB too and wonderful to hear how much it's helped Squallie. I hope I can find a better vet in time too!! Thanks for your support

 

Yes I'm in Canada! I actually think someone did mention this a while back on another thread. So I could just go the pharmacy and request Lantus for my cat without a script? That would be great the less I have to deal with my vet about the diabetes the better!

 

So true!!

 

Yes you can!!!

 

I am in BC and would just ask for a five pack of insulin cartridge at the pharmacy. I was surprised how much the pharmacist knew about Feline diabetes, she had a number of kitty clients. She is the one who got me the correct syringes and told me to buy cartridges instead of the vial.

 

Well, I'd like to say your vet is wrong. (I think you're getting the gist.). My knee jerk reaction is to ask the vet to direct you to an article or other information on using a long-acting, depot type of insulin for a diabetic cat. Chances are, your vet is basing her choice of dosing on the use of a shorter acting, non-depot insulin (e.g., Novolin/Humulin N) or possibly on ProZinc. After your vet mumbles something about there not being any research, offer to share the article I've linked. These authors have several articles published in highly regarded veterinary journals regarding the use of the Tight Regulation Protocol. It's really hard for a vet to argue with science..

 

Yes, you absolutely CAN buy Lantus OTC here. Furthermore, at Shoppers Drug Mart you can get it at the 20% seniors' discount every Thursday, it's tax free AND you can collect Optimum points. If you're too young to get that discount, just go with an older friend or relative. Recently, I asked about this at Shoppers and found out that a pack of 5 Lantus cartridges which normally sells for $125 would only cost $100 with the discount, no tax. Hard to beat that deal! The unopened cartridges will last a very long time in your fridge.

 

In Manitoba anyway there is no senior's discount on any drugs such as insulin, only on testing supplies and syringes. I don't know if other provinces are different so best to check. I buy my insulin (Levemir) at Walmart since they are much cheaper than Shopper's. Best to ask and check out different pharmacies to get the best price.

 

Good to know.

 

In BC, I found the Safeway pharmacy the best price of insulin and diabetic supplies. Here, Shoppers prices are about 20% higher so the 20% off discount brings them in line with what the lowest price suppliers do every day. Definitely shop around.

 

Yahhh thats great news thank you!!!

 

Thank you thats great to know We have an IGA pharmarcy here (IGA took over the Safeway) so I'll try them first, else there's a Safeway in the next town over. How much do you pay for yours out of interest? I will def shop around thank you

 

Thanks so much for this article, its great to have good info to show the vet!

 

Thank you Kris thats great to know!! Where about are you based? Im in Banff, Alberta. I will def check out shoppers, safeway and rexall to compare prices. I really like the idea of the cartridges rather than one larger vial. We paid $136 plus 5% tax for our vial from the vet so I'm sure I can find it cheaper else where and I'm really glad I don't need to use the vets anymore!

 

Thank you for sharing thats good to know Walmart have good prices too, I'll def shop around. Yah for OTC

 

Thats so great you got such good service there. I really want to get the cartridges too instead of the vial. I'm so pleased I don't need a script! I'm quite surprised to be honest that its OTC. Is that because its for felines rather than humans? Good to know about syringes too as I'm currently getting those from the vets too. Do you use the ones for fine dosing? Would be great to get thosse and my needles for BG testing from the pharmacy. The less I have to deal with the vet and their higher prices the better

 

It's been a few years. Neko was on Levemir the last three years, and it cost a bit more than the Lantus. I only bought a Lantus vial once, and it was something like $79, then I went to the 5 pack of cartridges, which is 50% more insulin, and it was around $100. With no tax. It's OTC for both pets and humans, just a difference of payment I think.

Definitely shop around for the rest of the supplies. I got the BD Ultrafine II syringes (1/2 unit markings), the purple and yellow box, for around $36 at the Safeway pharmacy and it's more like $44 at Shoppers and some other pharmacies for the box of 100. Lancets were also a dollar cheaper at Safeway. Safeway here was bought by Sobeys. Costco and Real Canadian Superstore also have fairly good prices here, if you have those stores.

 

Thanks so much for this info Wendy Good to get an idea of costings. Will def ring around to compare here. I'd really like to get the cartriges they seem much more cost effective and practical too! Do you have to draw from them in a different way to the vials? Took us a while to get use to drawing from the vial, we tend to struggle with getting air in so usually have to take more out at a time then flick to remove bubbles then squeeze out excess insulin. Just wondering if there is much difference with the cartriges. Thanks again for your help!

 

The cartridges don't work on a vacuum system so you DO NOT inject air into them. Simply insert the needle and draw out the dose you need. It helps to keep bubbles to a minimum if you depress the plunger on the needle as hard as you can when inserting it into the cartridge.

 

Thank you thats really great info to know My vial has a system that when you draw out the insulin the bottom part keeps coming up to keep it compressed, so no air was ever in it. So we have similar technique we don't inject air in and try and keep the plunger tight. Not sure if thats right for a vial as I watched the video and they had air at the top of theirs I think but mine doesn't have any air in. I will def try to depress the plunger harder for the cartridge I'm sure this will help Thanks again!

 

I'm in Ottawa ON and things appear to vary province by province.

 

Thanks Kris I just checked my receipt from the vet and it was actually $58 for my 3ml vial, I remember him saying $136 though so I'm not sure what happened there. Either way the cartridges look cheaper I just saw online for 5 pack of lantus cartriges each 3ml is $112 so thats only $22 per 3ml cartridge that less than half the price of what I paid! Gona ring around shortly to see if I can get a better price in store too

 

The $136 was probably for the larger 10 mL vial. People here usually don't buy those because the insulin can lose its "oomph" well before the vial is finished. My vet sells a single 3 mL cartridge for $48. Shoppers Drug Mart charges $125 for a 5-pack without the discount, so $25 per cartridge.

 

Have you seen the insulin ruler they refer to in the article? You can download on the link they provide (pasted below) looks really handy, I'm going to try it soon - http://www.diabetes-katzen.net/insulinruler.pdf
I haven't read the whole article yet, do you know if they actually refer to the protol as Tight Regulation? Thank you!

 

Thats good to know thank you, even without the discount that still more than half the price of what I way paying

 

You can only use that ruler with the BD syringes. Other brand syringe markings are not the same so the dosing using the ruler would not be as accurate.

 

Thanks for the info, thats a pity I think it would be helpful to have something for making fine dosing more accurate. These are the syringes I am currently using.

 

I've used those before and I found them to be good. I've used 3 or 4 different brands and never had a major issue with any of them - maybe I'm not as particular as some people are ...

 

So my hubby is at Safeway pharmacy in Canmore trying to buy the Lantus cartridges and apparently the vet says its a grey area to buy insulin without a script?? He's now calling our vet!! Clearly he does not know the law here in Canada.

 

So my hubby got turned away at the Safeway pharmacy after requesting Lantus for our cat! The said its a grey area and that he needs script so he rang our vets and apparently the vet tech couldn't find the details of what insulin Tinka is on, really? My hubby told the pharmacist exactly what we need the lantus cartridges which they had in stock. But he was in a total flap and basically refused to give it to my hubby without a script. Ridiculous. Hubby has just got to Shoppers drug mart now and was given the lantus cartriges with no questions asked! Thank you Shopppers

 

Good price from Shoppers too $114 for 5 x 3ml cartriges. No script needed. Thats way cheaper than my vet yah!

 

Glad you were able to finally get the insulin. In Manitoba I have bought Lantus from Shopper's, Superstore and Target (when they were still here) and Levemir from Shopper's and Walmart all without a prescription and without having to verify with my vet. How strange Safeway wouldn't sell it there.

 

Julie made a great video in the Sticky on Lantus/Levemir info and storage, showing how to draw from the vial vs. the pen. The cartridge is a pen refill, so it's like a pen but less "stuff" around it. It's about 2/3 of the way down this sticky note. It almost sounds like what you were getting from the vet was a cartridge. Does it look the same as what you got? Glad you got a source for a better price.

 

Thanks thats helpful to know I think the pharmacist was just a bit clueless, he'd probably never done it before. We live in a fairly small town but not thats small, I would have thought he may have at least known the laws. Anyways shoppers to the rescue, had really good and quick service there. The cartridges are much cheaper than what we got from the vet so thank you for all your help everyone! I couldn't get my needles there though as they didn't have any and they syringes were a different size and more expensive so I'll shop around for those.

 

Thank you for the sticky note, I looked at it a while back but thats when there was so much new info so was good to revisit it. Yes you are right it is not a vial that they gave me although they called it a vial and my receipt says its a vial its actually a cartrige refill. It is this one -


I haven't seen what the cartridge looks like yet hubby is on his way home, is it the same or does something go over it? Thanks for helping me source the cheaper cartridges

 

The cartridge hubby got should look exactly like the picture you posted.

 

Thank you, you are right he just back and the cartridges look exactly the same except I have 5 now for the price of two, what a deal These are the ones we got

 

Yep, those are them!!

It's great that you're out from under your vet's thumb now too.....You can get your insulin any time you need it and he can go fly a kite!!

 

Hee hee love this, thanks Chris

 

So today I get a voicemail from my vet, as Safeway pharmacy rang them last night when the young pharmacist thought I needed a script. So my vet rings me today to tell me I can't buy insulin without a script. Well yeah I can and I did from Shoppers thank you very much it's perfectly legal. Anyway then she precedes in the voicemail to tell me that I need to tell her how much insulin exactly I'm giving Tinka before she gives me a script and that she wants to stress again that I don't need to home test daily and she doesn't want me doing it. She says now today that BG testing daily on the ear can cause fibrosis or something like that on the ear where basically I would have damaged the veins in her ear so she won't be able to test Tinka properly in the future. Honestly she's so determined to put me off BG testing at home and taking any responsibility for Tinkas diabetes. Im just going to ignore this and move forward. Thought I'd just share this hilarity! I'm really happy with Tinka's progress on TR so far! The only higher numbers we've seen have been from reintroduction of steroids. But even on steroids we are getting things better controlled with TR and the amazing help from you!!

 

There are people here whose kitties have had their ears poked for years on end and seem to be doing just fine. And, hello?! you don't need a script for Lantus!

 

OMG Time to find a real vet. One of my kitties, who will never go into remission ( other health issues) had had his ears poked over 7 THOUSAND times in the last 2+ years, with NO medical issues and he actually comes to the test mat and purrs while I do his testing. His reward of course is a bit of LC treat and he is very food oriented, but it works well for us. The first vet I saw ( very short time) said no home testing and lots of other bad advice. My second vet was not a big advocate of home testing but over the last 2 years has become much more pro=active about suggesting home testing after she saw how well BG levels could be tracked when seeing the spreadsheets for my two FD kitties. Sorry but a vet is like a GP doctor. They know a little bit about a lot of conditions. The people on here know a LOT of FD and some of the other conditions that follow FD.

 

Wow! Are you sure this woman actually has a degree in veterinary medicine, lol?!? Time to find a new vet!

 

Your vet is definitely on a power trip and far too out of touch with reality to be trusted with feline diabetes. The only "scarred" spot on my girl's ear is from some idiot not knowing what they were doing testing her at the ER hospital when she was first diagnosed. Otherwise her ears are as pristine as they were before her diagnosis. Like Mary Ann's furkids, my girl often comes to get me at test time and if she doesn't come get me, she comes when I call her and then purrs through her testing and she just get pets and kisses for doing so! Personally I'd have a hard time not responding to a message like that but then I have very low tolerance for arrogance and stupidity especially on the part of so called medical professionals.

 

IMO, this is all the justification you need. You hold the syringe, you get to make any final decisions. You have the power to over-ride both your vet's advice as well as any advice you get here that you don't feel comfortable with.

Oh and your vet would be horrified at the number of times my Ivana used to get poked - I think her record was over 20 times in one 24hr period, and it was usually around 8-10 times every day

 

Well George's ears are just fine, my vet can't see any scars, and we have yet another kitty who purrs all the way through his tests, he's OTJ now, but I still test daily as I want to be sure that I am on top of things should anything cause him to come out of remission.

You can minimize bruising by applying gentle firm pressure, with a cold wet cotton pad and by avoiding hitting the vein, we aim for the capillaries in the sweet spot.

 

Thank you everyone for the encouragement Tinka has responded so well to her BG home tests. Her ears look perfect, no marks. She purrs during her test too. I warm her ear up before with a little mini rice pack. She enjoys the attention and barely feels the prick and she always gets a LC treat after It's just ridiculous that my vet is so clueless! She'd rather have me shoot blind risking my cat dieing from a potential hypo or holding a dose that's too low for days on end risking developing ketones then hv me gently prick my cats ear. I'm too annoyed at her to even bother responding to her power trip. I have my insulin now and I don't need a script and I hv all that I need to home test and keep my baby safe Not going to bother discussing things with her. Our practise is so unfortunately so small it's just a handful of vets at the practise. We are planning to move west to a bigger city later this year so hopefully I'll find someone better! Iv dealth with one other vet at my practise a few times and again he didn't encourage much home testing but I told him I test at least 4 times a day and he didn't argue. I also told him about Tinkas values and my spreadsheet a few weeks back and he seemed fine about it. He was surprised I was able to find dose But he did say I don't need to home test much and I can shoot in the PM without testing her a BG which I obviously don't agree with. But he at least didn't hv the power trip going. Maybe I'll try deal with him next time but I think I'll just avoid discussions with them as much as possible and just keep moving forward with Tinka with all your help! So grateful for this amazing group, thank you!

 

If I have to take China in for something else, I start the conversation by saying "she's on X units of Lantus and her blood glucose usually runs between X and Y"...that way I'm keeping the vet informed without seeking her advice or opinion (and if she gives it to me anyway....well.....you know.....LOL)

 

Good advise thanks Chris!! Ha ha this made me chuckle, thanks for sharing

 

A picture says a thousand words...or none at all, lol!

 

Tanya wish you lived closer... i am just south of red deer... my vets rock... i share my SS link with them... they have said more then once i know more about my cat now then they do and have actually clapped for me when i start explaining stuff for them... not sarcastic seriously clapping... and Costco i just found out today is $95 for the 5x 3ml cartridges and the pharmacist there had no issues when we said it was for our kitty... in fact he told us that it was good we had said it was for our kitty... cause if you dont tell them... they place it on your acct under your name.. and then it shows up if you were to get hurt that you are on insulin... if you cannot talk in the hospital and they pull up your file they will assume you or your DH are the ones on the insulin... just a heads up in case it was placed under either of your names and not kitties name.. i agree with everyone here .. nod and ignore and look for a better vet if you can

 

My cat's vet didn't understand why I test a few times a day until he ended up with a diabetic cat of his own. And because he wasn't testing, Dolly had a hypo incident and was in a coma for 3 days. She is ok now and now he understands why I test.

 

Thanks so much for sharing this info! My hubby told the pharmacist at shoppers it was for our vet but then she out his name on the bottle. I'll ask him to tell her to change it to Tinka ad I def don't want hubby been given insulin when he doesn't need it in case of s hospital situation. That's so wonderful to hear about your vets!!! If u don't mind me asking what is the name of the practise and vet? That is a pretty long drive for me from Banff but def something to consider. Thanks again!

 

https://www.facebook.com/innisfailvet/

Innisfail Veterinary Services.... and Dr Micheal and Dr Andrew are the two i work with... but they are all good there from the receptionist and up...

 

Wow what a treat insulin price. Costco here is $390 for a box of five pens.

 

Tha

Thank you so much!!

 

Hello,

I'm going to chime in on this.
Most of the folks on here know my kitty Willow and her crazy story along with my defiance in listening to any of the vets advise.
In a nutshell our vet cost me $12k in vet bills in under a month time and three different vets all told me to put her down. Not only did I prove all of them wrong, Willow is setting right next to me! The instructions they gave me was to shoot our cat twice a day, no need to check her blood and come and see us in a few months. It was not until I noticed problems with our cat in the first week did I start to educate myself to this disease. I was referred to this group and learned so much more. I called a friend who is a great doctor and he told me that with humans before they can even start to take insulin they have to be educated or the doctor could lose their license. Yet a vet? No liability.

Vets only get a total of 4 hours of training in dealing with diabetic animals, two for cats and two for dogs and this is done during their schooling. If you watch any of the YouTube videos on the guy who is suppose to be the leading trainer for vets in diabetic dogs and cats you will completely lose it and want to punch the guy out. Most vets don't have the time or training to advise you on your cat. I have yet to meet a vet with the knowledge I currently have learned over the past year and I'm not a vet. This knowledge came by way of dealing with Willow and there is sooooo much more I need to learn.

The folks on here are battle tested! There have been times I have disagreed with some of them only because I know my cat better then anyone else. Take a look at Willows SS from last year and you will see scary numbers. Even today we battle with her and either getting into our other HC cat food or not eating. This then causes her bg to go high or too low as she has been doing this lately. Here we go,with the ups and downs on her insulin dose.

Do what you must to keep your cat safe. Cats are the only known animals that can reverse this. If you ask your vet if this is possible they will either say maybe or if it's not done within a year it is not going to happen. Yet their are members on here that their cat has reversed this after a year.
I will trust the folks on here over any of the vets I have had to deal with. This is not saying to discount all vets, I have learned to keep asking questions and get my second opinions from this group.

Your not alone with your frustration, at least they have not cost you a lot of money yet.

 

Wow what a journey you have been on too! Thank you for sharing and I'm so glad willow is with you today! I agree this group is amazing and I def feel so grateful to have found this group and the advise is far better than anything my vet knows! Thank you for the encouragement

 

Like others, if you look at Gabby's SS, you'll see I was a testaholic. I had no problems with getting blood from her ear -- and I tested on one ear only.

As for your vet making statements about what can happen to your cat's ear, my response to any medical professional is always, "Can you direct me to an article that you like on that subject. I'd really like to understand and learn more." If they can't think of a reference, I ask that they send me an e-mail me the citation. (This usually gets a response about needing to be able to access a veterinary library. And then I tell them I do have access to both a medical and vet library which shuts them up.) And if you do need access to research articles, send me a PM because I really do have access to a very large university and veterinary library system.

 

I can feel the envy of the USA members when they read about the price of insulin in Canada! And no prescription needed! I'm lucky: I live near the border and can just go over to buy Lev. at the Shoppers Drug Mart in Cornwall, ON. No questions asked. I was invited to join Shopper's Optimum discount program, and when I told them I lived in the US, they said, no problem, they had just issued a card to a New Zealander!

I now have a wonderful vet who leaves Rusty's diabetes treatment up to me. But that was not always the case. I shot my first diabetic cat, Stu, "blind" (no testing!) for 4 years (but he was on one of the older, in-and-out insulins, not a "depot" insulin like Lantus). When Stu was switched to Lantus because the other insulin had been discontinued, my vet at the time treated it as if it were the older type of insulin. Stu's dose was raised by 1 or 2 units every week until he was up to 7 Units twice a day and crashed. That's when I found the FDMB and learned how to test. This wonderful group of people saved Stu's life.

I see that syringes cost much more in Canada than in the US! (trade-off for the insulin?) I also see that you are using Monoject syringes. You should be aware that Monojects--if they are not perfect--have a problem that could cause you to give more insulin than you think you are. Several years ago I addressed this problem in a Google Doc. Here is a link.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Sy-_ED9Vi_119OVGEF71zZ0PM6op2R_07oz578xaWU/edit

Tinka is a lucky kitty to have you for her momabean!

Ella & Rusty

 

That's terrible, about the Monoject syringes! You'd think they would change the design so that wouldn't be a risk, seems very dangerous to me!