From Lantus to Prozinc

Hello,

Moby has been pretty well regulated on Lantus until a couple months ago, which I outlined in the Feline Health Board.

Anything I should know about moving from Lantus to Prozinc? We're starting off at 0.25 units because Moby is incredibly sensitive to insulin.

Thank you for any words of wisdom!

 

Hi Marciegee and Moby! Welcome to our little forum! First thing to know is that we are a small but friendly forum. We're most active in the morning (maybe not quite so early as this...I'm up for work so I usually check in first in the morning) and evening. If you ever get an emergency, it's best to post both here and Health since it may not be seen here right away.

My gosh, I read that post on Health and it about broke my heart. I know you've got to be super stressed and scared for Moby. I've never seen something like that before, so I can't say whether this will help...but it's certainly worth a shot. I think 0.25 is a great starting dose. What syringes are you using? ProZinc is a u40 insulin so it takes different syringes. If you still have u100 syringes, that's fine. Just use them with this Conversion Chart. That might help to make it easier to give those smaller doses. It's totally up to you though...just make sure you're using that chart if you use u100 needles.

Have you read our Beginners Guide? It might help answer some questions you have. The big difference that I believe we have is that on ProZinc, we dose based on both preshots and nadirs. We don't have any specific dose to give in specific ranges...we base it on the cat's individual response to different doses. I know that tends to make people nervous since I believe on Lantus you have specific doses for specific numbers, right?

I don't have any other words of wisdom right now. We're here to help! Please let us know if you have any questions at all.

 

Welcome! I was too chicken to watch your video because it would have broken my heart to see it. We can certainly help you with ProZinc. If it seems to agree with Moby, I'd encourage you to try the U100 syringes with conversion chart as mentioned above because it makes small dose fractions easier.

 

Please do check out the protocol and beginner's guide. They are in blue in my signature. The biggest differences may be that ProZinc is considered an "in and out" insulin so it is usually out of the system by 12 hours, resulting in a smile shaped curved curve. But, as with everything in this sugar dance, every cat is different.

Let us know how we can help. I have no idea why the insulin would impact Moby at the time of the shot other than the insulin batch itself or contamination. Just hope a new insulin will help.

 

Hello! Thank you all for your welcome! I appreciate your words and kindness. We're definitely sticking to the U-100 syringes with the conversion chart. My husband just tested Moby about 30 minutes ago and he's at 44 at nadir, so it looks like we will need to cut his already miniscule dose in half, and I simply can't do that on the U-40. However, we printed out the conversion chart so we're always doing it correctly!

@Sue and Oliver (GA), I do have a question about the 'in and out'-ness of the insulin. Would you say Prozinc creates a shorter, deeper curve? I ask as Moby tends to dive very fast and very hard in the first few hours, his curves are very hard to get smooth.

 

ProZinc generally gives good duration (around 12 hours) but some cats will dive to a low number. If this turns out to be Moby's pattern you can try steering with food - ie., give a small snack around +3. BTW - don't judge the efficacy of ProZince by looking at my guy's SS. He could win the grand prize for unpredictability.

 

@Kris & Teasel Yep, we do give snacks, around every 3 hours. And oh, believe me, I won't judge on spreadsheets. I know how hard it is with these crazy, unpredictable kitties!

 

We are big on ECID - every cat is different. And ProZinc is harder to dose because you need to acquire data and see what patterns he has with it. If you look at other's spreadsheet, you'll see that the reactions are varied but each bean learns how to adapt the dose to fit their cat. (As Kris said, Teasel is probably our most variable kitty in terms of response.) But the nice thing about the insulin is that you can adapt to fit. We have people who have shot at 11/13 or 13/11 to work with consistently lower amps than pmps or vice versa. And some people use a sliding scale, adjusting the dose based on data. And some use food to bring up a cat who tends to have a fast onset. All are possibilities once you know your cat's patterns.

So we will encourage you to get as much data as you can. Today's data definitely shows a reduction is in order, and that you might use food to smooth out the onset. So maybe feed half his meal at amps and then the other half one or two hours later (or whenever you see the drop). Or 3/4 and 1/4.

ProZinc is a shorter deeper curve as there is no depot. So generally preshot, drop to nadir, back up to same range as last preshot within 12 hours. (That smile curve ). But again, some kitties don't read the manual.

 

Thank you, @Sue and Oliver (GA)! Husband just did another test and we're back up to 129, so we'll adjust accordingly. I'm rather used to the lingering Lantus, so this will be a bit of a learning curve for me! I think we'll give a smaller breakfast and a larger snack two hours after we do a morning shot to compensate. I really appreciate your insight! I just re-started a spreadsheet so we'll be gathering data for a while now!

 

Wow! Well at least we know for sure the insulin is working! I think the snacks are a good plan to help soften the curve some if needed.

 

Well, so far, so good! We're still struggling to find the appropriate dose, but we're not having twitch seizures, so that's a plus! We're also practicing injecting in the flank. Do you know if that affects how fast the insulin is absorbed?

 

There is a helpful picture and description on this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/injection-site-on-body.172526/

 

The jury is out. Some think site affects absorption and some don't. I think it depends on the cat as well.