can we go backwards?

Cinn is currently on 3 units 2x daily with Lantus .... his numbers are still all over the place, low normal to low 300's when he has 24/7 access to YA Zero MH and wet food 2 x daily, high 300's to 500's when he is on just an all wet food diet .. my vet wants me to increase his dose to 4 units .. i personally think the 3 units is too high a dose .. i want to take him backwards by either decreasing his dose by 1/2 units or take him off insulin for a week or two, leave him just on a 24/7 access to YA Zero with 2 wet feedings a day diet then restart him on the lantus but start at 1/2 unit and then increase from there if needed. my reason is .. when he was first diagnosed .. when i was testing ( before he was on insulin) he would test in 4-500 range just with wet food, once i put him and my other cats on YA Zero access, his numbers started to come down and the day he went to the vet for his first shot, he tested at 170 so i think i need to go back to that time and then restart him on the insulin but on a smaller dose then the 1 unit he was originally started on.

i already use the SLGS protocol because he does have access to the YA Zero but the vet has been increasing his doses in whole units, not half and she keeps insisting on a total wet diet for him but when ever i have him on all wet, his numbers are high and stay high .. the NS's were only when he had access to the YA Zero .. with the other cats in the house, to keep peace, i need a dry food they can all eat since 2 wont eat wet at all but will seek out paper or plastic to eat, 1 will actually eat it but only after not eating for a couple of days but pukes immediately afterwards then she wont touch it again for a few days but again pukes what she did eat, repeating a vicious circle and i cant keep him separated as the only room available is my bedroom but it gets wicked hot in there in summer as the only window opens on to the sunporch.

my question is can this be done? do i decrease 1/2 a unit every 10 days or can i just stop his dosage cold turkey and then restart him in 7-14 days?

do i try and discuss this with my vets again or just inform them i want to do this? .. i have tried to explain to them multiple time, 3 units is not working and i think its too high especially since he is on a very low carb dry as well as getting the low carb high protein wet food but they are insistent the dose is not enough and needs to be increased

 

First off, I would not increase by an entire unit. We only recommend that for kitties on very high doses (double digits). By going up a unit, you could easily miss the purrfect dose, and too much insulin can look like too little. We strongly recommend sticking to .25 unit doses for most cats, and if you read the SLGS guidelines, that's what is recommended there, too.

I agree with your vet about the all wet diet, but I can't argue with your experience, so I'm not going to push it. I guess YA is better than any other dry food.
What you say to your vet is up to you. If he/she is open minded, it's good to be upfront with them, but sometimes they think they know best and become very difficult if you disagree, so you'll have to go with what you think will work best when dealing with him/her. Just remember you need a vet to get insulin, and of course for other health issues, so try not to burn your bridges! Many of us here take the "nod and smile" approach, where we avoid discussing dosing as much as possible, and when unavoidable, we smile and nod at what the vet says, then go home and do what we feel is best.

I am going to ask some of our most experienced members to take a look at your SS and give you their thoughts on where you go from here.

 

yes i read that there but being semi new to the whole feline diabetes disease, i figured my vet should know more than i as the best way to treat him. the clinic has 2 lady docs and 1 man .. we have seen all 3, each one is sort of different .. 1 female is all for me home testing even with a human meter .... the other is ok with home testing but only wants me to use the AT2 meter and the man doc is old school and thinks all testing should be done in their office so i never know who i am getting until i show up for my appointments .. i have to admit with other health issues that i know how to treat and such but just need a script for the meds for it, i tend to zone out as they explain how to treat what ever it is then just smile and thank them .. go out pay the bill and go home and treat as i know how so i guess the nod and smile thing is like the same thing

 

Sadly, vets get about 5 hours of study on diabetes in vet school, and that covers both cats and dogs, which react very differently to the disease. Unless your vet has sought additional training or has a great deal of experience treating diabetes, you will find most of them do know know a great deal about it. Many have limited experience with owners that want to home test, as many people don't want to go to the bother and expense. When you make your appointments, can you possibly request to see the vet that encourages home testing? A human meter will save you a lot of money, and make it easier to follow the guidelines here, since they are written based on a human meter. We do have people here that use an AT successfully and don't wish to change, but it does add some challenges.

We are not vets here, but collectively we have thousands of hours of dealing with FD, many of us with multiple cats. We have people here that have done a great deal of study on the subject, and we get input from some people in the veterinary field on occasion. Contrary to what some vets have said, this isn't just a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet! We actually know what we're talking about, and many of us have had great success using the methods here and wish to share with others. I know it's a great leap of faith to put your trust in a bunch of people you've never met. Most of us felt the same in the beginning.

I would never tell you to ignore your vet, but I encourage you to educate yourself as much as possible, so you can make informed choices when treating your cat. I'm sure you would do the same if this was your child we were speaking of.

 

Starting over is not usually a good idea. It is better to look at how the current dose is doing and use that to guide you. I think you should go down to 2.75 units to start. Cinnamon has gone below 90 several limes on 3.0 units, which earned a dose reduction according to SLGS. We look at how low a dose is taking a kitty, not the high points.

 

I see you went with 3.0 units again today. I strongly suggest you reduce the dose. Just because a cat has high preshots numbers doesn't mean they aren't going low. Cinnie's preshot numbers are likely bounces. Neko earned her first reduction staring at 430, diving below 50, then back up by the next preshot time. I have seen cats with numbers over 500 do the same. I think 3.0 units is too high a dose.

 

sorry didnt see your reply until now .. my syringes have the 1/2 units so im guessing the 2.75 would be between 2-1/2 and 3? i gave him 3 units at 730pm this evening, i was 2 hours late arriving home from work so i can reduce his dose for his morning shot at 530am as i leave for work about 6am

 

i have tried to request her but the only days i have available for vet appointments are Saturdays due to my work schedule and she isnt always available on Saturdays. i already do use a human meter for daily testing and just use the AT2 meter for curves as a compromise with the vet as their in office software is only set up for the AT 2 meter readings. i wouldnt ignore the vet but like now they want another whole unit increase and my gut is telling me he needs less insulin so i will be reducing it as instructed here

 

Lantus should be given every 12 hours. Injecting 2 hours early is like a dose increase. No answers here--just to let you know. That is so hard when you get home that late and have to leave that early. Hopefully someone with experience can help.

You're so sweet to give Cinnamon a home after he was a stray for all that time. Hugs to you!

 

yes i know its every 12 hours and usually i am able to do that but there are some days we end up just working late or i am called out on an emergency in the middle of the night and dont get home until 8 or 9 am .. unfortunately i work in the utility/construction field so I have no set end time just an early consistent start time, march to november are the busiest times of the year for us.
he chose me as his human as did 4 of the other cats i have, i used to live in an area with many rental homes .. people moved all the time leaving their cats behind .. i always kept dry food available for them with plenty of fresh water and 3 times a week i would give them wet food with food grade diatomacious earth mixed in so they had some kind of internal parasite control, i worked with the local woman who was doing the TNR's in the neighborhood and would help her get the strays trapped so she could get them spayed and neutered

 

That is correct. Figure out where you think that point is and try to hit it each time you draw up the dose - consistency is more important than accuracy. Some people find it helpful to draw up a dose with colored liquid and keep it to compare to each time.

This is very important to be aware of, especially as there is no one there to monitor during the day. We do not recommend shooting this early, except in special instances. Your options here are to skip the shot and resume with the new, reduced dose at your usual evening shot time, or maybe do a greatly reduced shot, like 1/2 the normal amount, but even that is risky, as there is still depot from the 3 units in play. I know you are between a rock and a hard place here, but think carefully about it and do what you feel is safest for your cat.

One question: does Cinnamon have any history of ketones or DKA? In those cases, it is unwise to skip shots. If no history, then skipping is probably your best option.

 

no history of ketones or DKA .. weary of skipping the new dose as his AMPS is 451 but will do so just in case and start the new dose with the pm shot

 

We have a saying here: "Better too high for a day than too low for a moment." I think you made the right call.

 

The irregular hours make it hard with a sugar kitty. I didn't know if you knew or not. There is so much info to absorb at first, and it's hard to know who knows what.

Bless your heart for helping all those cats.

 

started new dose with PM dinner .. now i was informed at work at the end of the day today, we have to come in tomorrow at 400am, 3 hours earlier than normal, so i will be skipping the AM shot just hope it doesn't mess with his BG too much with just the 1 shot in 24 hours

 

That's a really long day for you. No fun!

 

well hopefully the early start means we will have an early day

 

so far yesterday and today's pmps readings have been low enough that he doesn't require a shot at dinner time

 

We usually recommend that you lower the dose a little to be able to shoot both AM and PM. Maybe try 2.5 u?

 

sorry didnt see this until now, should i start the 2.5 units in the AM since its now 2 hours past when he normally gets the PM shot?

 

Sounds like a plan. He might be high.

 

i would expect him to be with no PM shot as he was this morning for the AM shot

 

Exactly. Too high is much better than too low.

 

at pmps he was 78 now 4 hours later he is 392 .. i didnt give him a shot at 530pm today .. yesterday for both amps and pmps he was in 300's so he did get the reduced dose of 2.5 units at 530 am and 530pm should i reduce his dose again in the AM to 2.25 or keep it at 2.50 for now?

 

He's bouncing a lot. Whenever you get a run of NSs it's a sign that the dose is a bit too high. The best dosing decisions for Lantus are based on nadir values, not PSs. Unfortunately, you don't have a lot of data between PSs. In your first post in this thread you said you were using the SLGS protocol which requires a dose reduction whenever the BG drops below 90 and a full curve to be done once a week.

I suggest you drop down to 2.25 u next dose and try to fill in the gaps on your SS with data from +4 to +8. That doesn't mean an hourly test in the range just a +4 one day, a +5 the next and so on.

 

monday to fridays i dont have any way to get any readings between am and pm shot time as i work and live alone so there is nobody available to even get a reading while im at work. i give an am shot at 530am and im out the door by 615 am at the latest and i dont walk through the door until 5 pm or some times later depending on how long we work til

 

It's harder for sure with a challenging work schedule. Any extra tests you can get in the evening and on days off would be very helpful.

 

i have been getting some tests in after dinner and before bed ( when i dont fall asleep in front of the tv before my bedtime)

had a hypo scare this morning at 330am when i woke up to get ready for work .. he was low before i went to bed so i fed him 1/2 can of wet food but he was at 43 when i woke up a few hours later and did not want any food, other than that no other noticeable symptom .. i have a baby medicine dropper that i filled to the first line with karo and gave him 1 drop per minute for 5 minutes, then tested every 10 minutes, once he was in the 60s range, he started to gobble up breakfast and he was in high 90s within 30-40 minutes, now when i came home from work he was mid 300s and that is with the reduced dose of 2.25 units at pmps reading

 

at +3 pm reading he is now at 131 compared to 351 at 530pm (+12 pmps) he only ate about 1/2 - 3/4 of what he was fed .. ill be monitoring closely until bedtime so i dont have another hypo scare like this morning

 

just had another hypo episode took a while to get his numbers to go back up but after 2 hours they finally did now i can go to bed

 

With that 43, he's earned a reduction in dose.....Ignore the high numbers for now and reduce him to 2U

 

Good catch on those lows, good job testing. I agree with Chris. His new dose is now 2.0 units. Cinnie is responding well to the Lantus.

Did he show hypo symptoms tonight? We usually considerr below 50 the point to give high carbs.

 

the only symptom he shows is not wanting to eat .. he drinks water fine and wanders around the house following me, he jumps up on my bed or dresser fine, he is purring and otherwise acting almost normal you can tell he doesn't "feel" right, i am right now watching him and trying to get him to eat some high carb wet food as he tested high 60s at 530am but hardly ate what i fed him and his number started dropping again at 630am he was 65, at 730 he was 57, now at 830 he was 42 so syringe fed him some gravy from the high carb food ( he wont touch wet food if its anything but pate type food unless its human food) i am going to pack him in the carrier and run him to the vet just to be on the safe side at 9am as they open at 930 and it takes me 25 minutes to get there

 

so ran to vet, by the time i got there and they tested him, his numbers on their AT2 meter were at 88 ( never crossed my mind to test with my AT2 meter), she gave him an anti nausea shot as she said karo was probably upsetting his tummy as i thought it might be, she advised giving a tsp of high carb wet food or a few pieces of moist cat food, see how his numbers are using my AT 2 meter for today, if he stays under 300 skip the PM shot, if he goes 350 or above give him 1-1/2 units for PM shot, if PM shot is skipped, in the AM if he is 300 or higher give 2 units if under 300 give 1-1/2 units but she wants me to use my AT2 meter for testing.

she did notice he was tilting his head to eat some of the chunky wet food they gave him so checking his mouth, he has a hole in his right side bottom lip where his bottom fang actually pierced through the skin, said the tooth is crooked and angles outward a bit and its something he has had for a while as the skin is well healed, with his mouth closed the tooth fits right into the hole

 

Ouch on the mouth sore! I hope it's not infected. Getting that fixed may help him get regulated.

Did you give insulin Friday or Saturday morning? There is nothin in the units cell of the spreadsheet.

Some people find high carb wet food works better than karo, for their cat. Karo/corn syrup can cause problems for kitties with corn allergies. My Neko was the opposite. She couldn't eat wheat which many of the gravy high carb wet foods have in them, so I had to search for a high carb wet food with carbs from potatoes. Or use karo, or maple syrup or honey.

Of course your vet wants you to use the AT. Do you buy the strips from her? My get used a human meter in the office so I never got the pressure to use the AT, but many here have, it is so pricy. Which is why people use the human meter. That plus our dosing methods were created using human meters. You could always continue to use the human meter, and just use the AT when you need to report numbers to the vet.

Consistent dosing, based on the nadir or low point is better than figuring out how much insulin to give based on the preshot. 2.25 units is too much insulin because of those lows.

 

not a mouth sore .. its just a spot on the lip where at some point in his past his tooth poked a hole through the lip .. like an ear piercing and with his mouth closed the tooth just slips right in to it like an earring

no did not give a shot either thursday, friday or today in the AM .. thursday and friday mornings i had to be at work both days before the 12 hour cycle was up but friday morning he had his first hypo episode that took me 30-40 minutes to get his numbers into the 90s before i could leave for work, i did a +10 test thursday and fri at 330am which i put in the previous days cells and noted it in the remarks area .. i have a friend who is camping near by and was able to come by about noon to test him friday for me and i forgot to add that number to his SS. He did get a PM shot friday and at about 10pm is when his numbers started going way down and i was up until midnight getting them back up where i could go to bed but when i got up this AM, he was low again and has been staying low when testing with the Prime meter.

i get the strips on Amazon and yes the vet in the office today is the one who wants me to use the AT2 meter as their software is set up for that meter. i plan to continue using the human meter but she suggested using the AT2 meter for today since on my meter the numbers are reading below normal range but on the At2 meter they are not ..
he doesn't seem to have a nadir or low point .. when i have been able to get mid cycle readings his numbers are usually the highest at +6 not the lowest

my main concern right now is his lack of appetite and the fact here it is 2pm and even after eating some high carb wet food both here and at vets his numbers at 130pm were only 100 on the At2 meter and 75 on the Prime meter so unless they suddenly spike in the next 4 hours to above 350, doesn't seem likely, looks like he wont be getting a PM shot

 

at +10 (330pm) he tested at 121 on the AT2 and 87 with the Prime meter

 

at pmps (+12, 530pm) he tested 155 with the prime meter and 204 with the AT2 meter so no shot tonight .. im thinking even tho the vet wants him to have 2 units in the AM if he is 300 or higher and 1-1/2 units if he is under 300, i am thinking that he should get 1-1/2 units even if he is over 300

 

Actually, if when you were home he was 42 and you syringe fed him some gravy, then took him to the vet, it's totally expected that he'd be at 88 on the AT by then....the high carb gravy kicked in plus the stress of going to the vet explain that, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the "he was OK at the vet" issue

All the tests you've gotten since then are pretty comparable too....the human meter is always going to read lower than the AT, but ALL meters are allowed a 20% variance so those numbers look right to me...and probably pretty darn accurate!!

I agree that if he's still not eating well, you'd best skip tonight.....if he's over 200 in the morning, you might try going with 1.5 for a few days and then let's see how he's doing

Eat your food Cinnamon!! It's good for you!!!

 

I will get another test once im home from babysitting the grands but i did skip his PM shot tonight .. his belly was making a lot of gurgling sounds so hopefully that means he will be getting hungry and start eating like normal

 

took a before bed reading at +5 ( 1030pm) on the AT2 meter he was 199 and with the Prime he was 164, so numbers went down with AT2 meter but went up with the Prime from the +12 pmps number he tested with ... with him going hypo 2 days in a row, makes me nervous even giving him the 1.5 units if he is under 300, as the vet suggested, especially since he still is not eating like normal but she said some cats don't bounce back to normal for a day or 2 after going hypo, i just dont want him to go hypo again because he isn't eating a good meal.

i did notice one thing, he is now drinking just as much water as my other cats are but he isnt peeing all that often and when he does go, he leaves big puddles on the pee pads which now has a normal yellow color and pee smell ( before it looked almost clear and hardly any odor at all), like he is waiting or holding it until his bladder is completely full before he goes.

 

ok .. alarm didnt go off, i overslept and didnt wake up until almost 930 am so he obviously didn't get a morning shot but he most likely didn't need one at 530 am because at 930am (4 hours late) with the AT2 meter he tested at 165 and with the Prime he was 130 .. i fed him 2 -3oz cans of FF classic/chunky chicken he is eating it slowly and so far has only eaten about 1/4-1/2 of 1 can he isn't attacking or scarfing it down like its his last meal, i will set my kitchen timer so i can get a test at 1230pm

 

at +3 (1230pm ) he tested 253 with the AT2 and 201 with the Prime .. he only ate about 1/2 - 3/4 of 1-3oz can of FF .. im concerned with his lack of appetite and he seems very blah .. he hangs out near me and is purring and such but he just seems to sleep a lot .. he is drinking water but with multiple pets and water sources i cant gauge how much he himself is drinking, as i mentioned above i noticed he seems to be drinking about as much as my other cats (only basing that on how often i see them going to the water bowls and how long they spend drinking from them), he isnt peeing in the litter boxes but on the pee pads they sit on or in other spots he goes that i cant put a litter box in that spot, the puddles are larger then normal and today they have a medium yellow color to them and he isnt peeing as often as he did .. i am wondering if i should make a wet food smoothie for him and syringe feed him to get some food and fluids into him .. i did the pinch test and he isnt dehydrated

running him to the e-vet is not feasible as they are an hour away and my bank account, after yesterdays visit to his regular vet, is now on E

 

pmps with the AT2 meter is 199 with the Prime it is 151 so no shot tonight .... i have to be at work 3 hours before normal, so i wont be giving him one in the morning .. he definitely doesn't feel well, maybe a possible UTI? i called vet and left a heads up VM as well as sent them an email detailing everything since he had the 1st hypo episode so its fresh for them and i will be calling in the am just to give a heads up as well in case they didn't check VM or email before he arrives, my daughter is going to pick him up in the morning and drop him off between 830 and 9am and with luck i will be out of work before they close to pick him up.
he is purring and following me around but i noticed if he is in the living room with me he is shivering in my arms when i am holding him, its colder in that room because of the AC so i have him in my bedroom with just a fan on low speed, that's why i think he may have a UTI or some other infection causing a fever but don't have a way to take his temp to see. made him a wet food smoothie but he didn't drink very much, he goes to the water bowl and only drinks a little bit then walks away .. did the pinch test again but his skin goes back to normal right away so he appears to at least be hydrated enough. i feel so helpless with not being able to make him comfortable and i did call the e-vet but they don't do any kind of payment plan so they are unable to see him unless i can find some way to pay for the visit if i bring him in .. they suggested calling some of the traveling vets who do home visits but only 3 available in this area, 2 dont do payment plans and 1 is not available.

 

We usually suggest shooting the scheduled dose if they're above 150 (on a human meter) so I think you could have shot tonight if you were able to test tonight. It's important to learn to shoot those lower numbers because that's when Lantus works best.

This thread is getting pretty long so I'd suggest starting a new one. We generally start a new thread every day here with the date, cats name and AMPS # in the subject line....then as the day goes on and you get other tests, you "Edit" the subject line to add the new test results.

That way people who are scanning the board can quickly see how everyone is doing and reply to the ones that might need help sooner ....and if your post has a question in it, you can use the ? prefix in the subject line too and that lets us know your post includes a question. Once it's answered, you can remove the ?

 

with him not feeling well and the 151 on the Prime meter i didn't want to take a chance of him going hypo on me again since he isn't eating all that much as he went hypo thursday night/friday morning with getting the 2.25u dose and he was in the high 200's when he was given his PM dose. i also have to be at work for 4am so he wouldn't be able to get an AM dose as he would be getting it 2 to 2-1/2 hours before the 12 hour cycle is up ..

i will start a new post tomorrow and link it to this one after i bring him home from the vets after work

 

Here's hoping for a good vet appointment tomorrow. There are lots of suggestions on how to get food into a kitty in this post on Stimulating a Kitty's Appetite.

I agree with Chris that some insulin would have been a good idea. Inappetance/not eating enough plus not enough insulin plus possible infection is a bad combination and can lead to DKA. Are you able to test him for ketones?

 

not able to test for ketones as he urinates on pee pads and old towels but very rarely in a litter box, plus he wont pee in front of me or at least he never has ... if im in the bathroom where he normally goes and he comes in to go .. he will go into the bedroom and go next to the litter box instead, vet believes its a behavior issue from being a stray for so long combined with most likely being borderline diabetic all or most of his life, living outdoors the symptoms didn't show, until he was forced to be an indoor kitty and then became stressed with tapeworms. vet will test for ketones when he goes in tomorrow

tried getting him to eat using human cooked chicken breast, even cooked a plain hamburger crumbled up in to small bits, have the baby food meats he wont even touch those, tried parm cheese and even some shredded mozz cheese which is his favorite, he ate 3 pieces and walked away, did the baby medicine syringe feeding with a wet food smoothie warmed up, again he only ate a tiny bit ( 1.875 ml x 2 amount) before just letting it run out the side of his mouth and then trying to fight me so not wanting to upset or stress him out more, i stopped for 1 hour and tried again, same thing .. ate a little then started fighting me on it

 

Some kitties really go for the Liver Shake.

 

Hi , I am so sorry you are going through this with your kitty. When Bubba had a bad GI upset and would not eat ( which is just not like him as he always eats! ) I got some of the Liver shake syringed into him (Wendy posted it above) Some kitties will eat it own their own, so hope yours is one of those kitties but if not, it is easy to syringe feed into them and then maybe he will start eating on his own. That is what happened with Bubba. Sending hugs and fingers and paw crossed for you and Cinnamon.

 

will have to get the ingredients tomorrow if the vet doesnt give an appetite stimulant as stores here roll up the side walks between 9 and 10pm .. we dont even have a wal mart that is open all night

 

just did a before bed test with both meters, good thing i didn't give him his PM shot .. with no insulin since Friday evening with the AT2 he is at 114 and with the Prime he is 83 now this has me really worried, going to make some gravy wet food smoothie, warm it up and try to syringe feed him that so i don't wake up and find a hypo cat at 230am again, made me a basket case all day at work

 

Try baby food also. Just make sure it is all meat and nothing else added. That was something Bubba would eat on his own when off his feed.

 

When did you change his diet to LC wet food only?

 

Cinnamon crossed the Rainbow Bridge this morning on his way to the vet, ultrasound showed he had been bleeding internally but source of bleeding could not be determined, vet believes something ruptured and may have been putting pressure on his intestines, prior to the rupture, blocking him from passing digested food as they were full and his bowel was empty
I am devastated as he was my heart-cat

 

I didnt

 

I am so sorry to hear that, my heart goes out to you. Sincere condolences to you, know that Cinnamon is at peace and is watching over you with love.

 

I am so sorry for your loss. Fly free sweet Cinnamon.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

Oh, I am sooooooo very sorry to be reading this about Cinnamon. Sending you lots of hugs and vines of strength and healing.

Fly high Cinnamon, land softly.

 

I'm so sorry you've lost your kitty. Sending you the peace of knowing he's not suffering.

 

I am so so sorryit was Cinnamon's time to go.
Fly free Cinnie - send your momma sign when you've made it to the Bridge. He goes in good company today.

 

I am so very sorry about your sweet, beloved Cinnamon. Our thoughts and prayers are with you....

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

I am so saddened to hear that your sweet Cinnamon has crossed the Bridge. You were a wonderful mama and gave him a good life after all he went through. He knew love and comfort, thanks to you. He will live on forever in your heart and watch over you from the Bridge until you meet again.

Fly free, Cinnamon, and land softly.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.
Fly Free Cinnamon

 

I'm sorry for your loss.

Fly free and land softly sweet Cinnie

 

Sorry to hear about your heart cat, Cinnamon. You were a wonderful cat momma.

 

Just saw this. I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

Sorry to hear this news...you were a good mama. Fly free Cinnamon