Small victory!

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Sean & Rufus, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    It's his best number yet 334! 2hours after dose. I'm so excited!
     
  2. Bronx's dad (GA)

    Bronx's dad (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! Yellows are next... :cat:
     
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  3. MJW

    MJW Well-Known Member

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    Celebrate!!!
     
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  4. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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  5. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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  6. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    What is ss?
     
  7. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Spreadsheet. We all use one and attach a link in our signatures.
     
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  8. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Spreadsheet :cool:

    Click to be taken to directions
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
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  9. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Oh I see! Yes, I'm going to do it soon! I don't have his vets bg #'s and this was only my 4th test
     
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  10. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Are you going to start testing before and after every shot? You should really get into that habit as insulin needs change and you shooting blind can be scary. A bedtime test is also useful if you can’t get daytime tests.
     
  11. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Congrats on home testing and the lowest number!
     
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  12. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely is the plan! Just have had a hard time with getting his blood with the stupid lancet. Tried 15 times last nigh before I gave up. Tried about 10 times before insulin and gave up. I think (and hope) I have a good technique now.
     
  13. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    After a few tests the blood does pool to a bead much easier. I use a mini hot water bottle to warm his ear; put a pad of toilet paper behind his ear. Then I use the lancet device and press against the sweet spot and click. He’s got used to the clicking now and I find it easier than free hand.
     
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  14. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, no way am I free handing! I put a cotton ball back there and click. My lancet device sucks, and so does the new one I bought. When I pricked him the last time time today, there was the tinest speck of blood. Miniscule really. I thought why not and stuck the strip to it! Viola! I just need to remember to put the device at an angle and works much better.
     
  15. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    What kind of device do you use? I use accucheck Aviva. I looked at your ss. Don’t forget to always test before the shot.
     
  16. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I'm using an Alpha Trak2 meter, and the lancet device that came with it. Bought a new Relion lancent device. Both tell you push the lancet all the way down and the cock it and shoot. Problem is when I push down the lancet all the way, it won't come through the opening when depressed. I have to barely stick the lancet in there for it to be long enough.
     
  17. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Don’t know either of those. Did you decide against the human meter then?
     
  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I totally forgot about picking up a human meter today at walmart. I think it's a good idea to have both. These Alpha Trak2 test strips are over a dollar a piece! The Relion at walmart I think are 17 cents.
     
  19. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Good plan. Don’t buy one tho. I believe they are free when you buy strips. Ask when you’re getting it how to use the lancet device. Strips are over a dollar a piece in Canada no matter what meter. But our insulin is a lot cheaper. Although we use more strips than insulin :banghead:

    It’s also a good idea to pick one meter and stick with it.
     
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  20. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Rufus is up to 4.5 units of Lantus, and still not regulated. Ugh. MArks marine in Canada will be the place to buy from now on! I actually brought both lancet devices to Walgreens and asked for advice. I said I can't be this dumb, what am I doing wrong. Pharmasist looked at both and said, yeah something is not right. So weird. No good about strip prices in Canada!! All healthcare wherever you go is a scam. The ALpha trak is the same as a human Freestyle. Freestyle strips are about half the price, so why in the heck are the pet strips double?! Makes no sense except they are all greedy.
     
  21. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    I was given a Freestyle Lite from DCIN with some strips so am switching meters in a week's time when I run out of the Accu-check Aviva strips. Funnily enough - Abbott Diabetes is one of our clients at work - would be great if I could get free samples...will be keeping an ear open on that. I saw Freestyle Lite strips on a colleague's desk so was being nosy. I try and order my strips on eBay as the folks in the US sell on there and I can get them for less. Just got 200 strips for $122 so not toooo bad - 61c a strip.

    Good luck with the human meter....Freestyle might be better for you then if the strips are half the price?
     
  22. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    But the ReliOn from Walmart is even cheaper! 17 cents! I read on here that freestyle strips CAN be used MAYBE in the AlphaTrak but the coding can get messed up. The "hardware" is the same, the "software" is different. Maybe you could just drive over the border to Walmart and stock up on the ReliOn?!
     
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  23. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Long way to the border for me. I’m in Toronto. Still a citizen of the UK so crossing the border from Canada for me is a hassle
     
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  24. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Well, the joy didn't last long. 511 at pmps :(
     
  25. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    What did the others say about the dosing? I thought I read in your condo that it was thought to be too much too soon. Hasn’t he only just been diagnosed?
     
  26. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Well I didn't get a real good answer. I'm really confused by all of the too much part. He was on 4 units for almost 3 weeks, but only periodic checks that were all high 400's or low 500's. Yesterday vet wanted to go to 5 and 5. I said 4.5 and 4.5 and she okayed that. I'm still super confused about is he getting TOO much, and if I should be going to a lower dose. My vet would lose her mind, but it seems people here think that we went too fast with changing the dosing. Maybe I'll ask again on here peoples thoughts. I (we) really do need more data to see what's going on. My thing is, if he's on 4.5 and it's high, could he only be needing say 3 units and it's artificially high? But how would I know if it was? I'm really lost. Trying to read all the stickies here, but it's like I'm past the point of no return?
     
  27. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    A starting dose like that is way too high. Usual starting dose is much less than that. My cat started on 0.5u and we have worked up over several weeks to current 2.75u. On SLGS we increase no more than 0.25u at a time. My vet kept wanting increases too as he saw the high numbers over 500. The vet was wrong.

    IF this was my cat I would drop down to 1u; test every preshot morning and evening. Do a curve every weekend and make dose increases based on the lowest number you get. That is the protocol for SLGS. Have you read the two stickies on SLGS and TR protocols? I’d say that’s useful info to read.

    Maybe some more experienced ones will chime in as I think you need good advice. I believe it was mentioned by a few in your condo called “Confused” that 4u was too high a starting dose.

    @Jill & Alex (GA)
    @Wendy&Neko
    @Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Can any one of you help with dosing advice? Can she drop right back? It looks like newly diagnosed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  28. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Oh and I was on 2u twice daily to start and I decided to ignore vet and drop right back to 0.5u. Think of it this way. A General Practioner doctor knows very little about gynecology. The GP has a broad understanding of many things but specialized in none. Same with a vet. Not many are specialized in feline diabetes.
     
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  29. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    No he wasn't started at 4. He was started at 1 back in November! We went from 1 and 1 to 2 and 1, then 2 and 2, then 3 and 2, then 3 and 3, then 4 and 4, and now this. He was diagnosed November 21, 2017.
    I would love to "start over" and do slgs but he's been going on this for a long time, I don't know if it'll hurt him to start all over. Know what I mean? I might just go to a specialist and see what they say.
     
  30. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Right. I mentioned to the vet that going to a specialist might be a good idea. She said, maybe, maybe not. It's just frustrating that he's on such a "high" dose and the number seem to be getting worse.
     
  31. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    The thing was is he was diagnosed at 430ish I think. Went on 1 and 1. Next week he was 390ish. Went to 2 and 1. Next week was 400's went to 2 and 2. Then 3 and 2, then 3 and 3 and then 4 and 4. All the while only having his number checked once per week and going off of that 1 number. I can see what a huge mistake that was. Vet said normally don't check at home because of not wanting to bother kitty more that already, and I thought yes that's good because I have no desire to collect blood! Now that I see how easy it is, I really wish I could have started the SLGS to begin with :(
     
  32. MJW

    MJW Well-Known Member

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    He got a convenia shot? Is he fighting a urinary tract infection? That will raise BG.
     
  33. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    She thought she saw something and sent it off to be cultured and wanted to do the antibiotics as a precaution. Came back negative though. He does kinda have an upper respitory thing going on.
     
  34. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    You’re won’t get a specialist who knows more than the people on this forum.
     
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  35. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Going up 1u at a time is a lot. Usually 0.25 -0.5 and both am and pm shot should be the same.

    I tagged some people to see if they can let you know if they think starting over will work for you.
     
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  36. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is a tremoundous amount of knowledge here. I just want to see the specialist because of the other issues going on. Just to lay it all out and see what their thoughts are. And like I said, I really haven't seen a reply about starting all over at 1 and 1. I could be asking the wrong way, or maybe people haven't read it yet to respond to, or maybe they just don't know the answers. The only replies I have seen was to start doing more testing and to start a spreadsheet.
     
  37. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I did order some new syringes that have a .5 mark. Went to walgreens and walmart today to buy some and they both said they aren't stocked because humans use only 1 unit mark ones. How would you dose a .25? Need a maginfying glass :)
     
  38. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you I appreciate that!
     
  39. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Just keep asking. You’ll get a response.
     
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  40. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Also - start a new condo every day. You get more eyes that way. Go to the previous day’s condo, copy the link and paste into a new one and title the condo 1/20 Rufus AMPS then his am number.
     
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  41. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Juliet! You've been really helpful. I appreciate it.
     
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  42. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Anytime. Sorry I can’t help with dosing. It’s a struggle we are all on. But keep asking the same questions til you get an answer.
     
  43. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    4.5u is a good deal of insulin.

    Are you able to get an overnight test or two? Right now you are missing half the picture.

    You may want to give free-hand poking a try....you just may surprise yourself.

    It’s really important to find a dose you can shoot consistently every 12 hours. Lantus likes consistency. Different doses every cycle leads to wonky numbers, which is the last thing you need.

    Since you have 2 consecutive cycles of 4.5u under your belt, hold that dose for now and focus on finding out what’s going on with his BG during the times you aren’t looking.

    Always get a test before you shoot - for safety sake.
    Get at least one mid cycle test in for each cycle ; if you can grab more tests all the better. In this way a truer picture of where this dose is taking him will emerge.
    If you can string together 6-8 cycles at 4.5u you will know which way the dose should go.

    The numbers will be your guide
     
  44. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    If you, like me need your sleep and cannot set an alarm to get overnight tests (boy I certainly do not do this) - then get a +2 and a bedtime test (maybe at +4) in during the evening. That is my compromise as I am unable to do the overnight alarm setting business. I would definitely try and get a curve in possibly next weekend - test every two hours over a 12 hour period. The vet may well ask you to bring him in for the day to do this but you can do it yourself and save yourself the money and Rufus the stress of the vet visit. Sandy is right - you are missing a big chunk of the picture. I know I miss a lot when I am out at work all day.
     
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  45. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    No, we suggested getting more data first, to decide if and how this dose needs to be changed. Some cats need a lot more insulin. Rufus is a big boy, he may need more insulin. Going back to the beginning is now the best choice right now, especially if it ends up he needs this amount of insulin or more. Getting more data on this dose first would be better. I agree with Sandy's approach. Get a couple days more data, then we can figure out where to go next.

    For what it's worth, both Sandy's kitty and mine ended up on much more than 4.5 units. Some cats max out at 0.25 units. ECID - each cat is different. It's a saying and very true.
     
  46. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Thanks for jumping in. I wasn’t sure everything that had been previously said.
     
  47. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    We always keep dosing for at least a week. We were on 4, then we went to 5. I told the vet I wanted to scale back for a week to see if 4.5 will work, so only did the 5 for 1 day.
     
  48. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I plan on getting more tests in. I'm just worried at this point if he was getting TOO much insulin and if that is why numbers aren't improving, and how would I know if he's getting too much. In fact, they appear to be getting worse.
     
  49. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Well, the good news (haha) is I'm unemployed right now, so waking up in the middle of the night won't be too big of an issue, but I'm definelty not a night owl. I'll work on getting more night numbers.
     
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  50. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Increases are usually done in .5 or .25 u not a whole unit at a time.
     
  51. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Try and get a curve done. Don’t forget your 1/20 new condo.
     
  52. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know that I now. I have no idea how a .25 would be done, but I've been eyeballing these 4.5 doses. New half mark syringes are on order.
     
  53. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    New condo started. I was going to get lots of data today, but might have had a fur shot :(
     
  54. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Same here. Think I did a fur shot too. Get the data anyways. Te the .25 dosing - count how many drops are in 1u - I get four. So fill syringe to the unit mark - in your case 5u and squeeze out two drops and there is your 4.5. Squeeze out three drops for 4.25. Measure how many drops YOU get in a unit first and go from there. That’s what I did. Even with half unit syringes that I use it’s still hard to eyeball those .25u
     
  55. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    story of my life lately. So what happens if they miss a shot? Have always wondered about that.
     
  56. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Nothing. They just ride high for the cycle. Nothing you can do about it.
     
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