? Freckles--AMPS 65 +13 77 +14 70 +16 71 +18 108 +20 142 PMPS 227 +2.5 272

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Jan 12, 2018
  2. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Hi. I couldn't see Freckles ss, so I don't know what dose of insulin you're at. But it's good you didn't shoot the 65! Great call! A stall and shoot would be done without feeding. He's eaten so he'll miss amps today. But so much better safe and high than low and dangerous! Seniors should be around soon to advise on next steps. Just wanted to assure you, was good not to shoot! :bighug::bighug:
     
  3. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Thanks, Heidi. Can you explain the stall and shoot protocol for me? I'm a little bummed I fed her, and now can't shoot, but I'm not sad I didn't shoot. :) There really is so much to learn. I keep reading and reading and looking at spreadsheets. I'm learning more everyday and people are so helpful. It's so appreciated.

    Freckles is on 1u. Can you see the spreadsheet now?
     
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  4. Mandy & Rex (GA)

    Mandy & Rex (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi there. I think it was smart you skipped because you don't have much data yet, being new to the dance. What I suggest is you grab a +2 and another one later in the cycle to see what happens when you skip.

    Did you say you want to do TR? Please add that to your signature.
     
  5. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Yes Lannie, ss opens now. But as new lantus user you wouldn't be shooting under 150 pre shot yet anyhow. So with Freckles coming up so slow you would have still skipped. I'll let a senior explain more explicitly so you really understand properly, but basically you're waiting without food and re testing to see if kitty comes up high enough to shoot.
    Also I see your note on ss 're changing shot times. Time changes should be done in 15 minute increments (20 max) per cycle in order to keep the lantus as close to 12 Hour as possible. Since He didn't greet am shot, a senior can advise if ok to do pmps at whatever time you want new cycles. Please post your +2. Eating ok?:bighug:
     
  6. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    +2 70 and she ate well

    I was thinking the same thing about being able to fully move the shot time up tonight.
     
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  7. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Freckles isn't coming up very fast. Can you post your test as well so we can see how he's going without his shot? Do you free feed or timed? He ate well but I'd still keep food available. :)
     
  8. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    I'm not understanding your question.

    I'll keep the food available. I usually feed after AM shot, once or twice during the day--she lets me know when she's hungry, and then after PM shot.
     
  9. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    It looks like Freckles is having a good response to the food switch. Might be a good idea to find a lower dose that you can shoot consistently so the depot has a chance to stabilize and you have maximum insulin support to compliment the diet changes.
     
  10. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    I meant next test. Typed too fast. Lol. Like+3 or+4. o_O
    Also :bighug: for the gender error! Got HER now. :p
     
  11. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Total aside, but are you able to put her pic as your avatar? Would be great to see her!
     
  12. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    I climbed up on top of the bunk bed to get a quick photo. I think she was thoroughly annoyed. I'll have to update later with a better photo. She must be feeling really well. She hasn't gone up the bunk ladder in a month or two.
     
  13. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Amazing what a difference proper diet can make :cool:

    I agree with Stacy. Dial the dose back a bit to a level you can shoot every 12 hours consistently.

    BTW- since you skipped this morning, that AM+2 is actually a PM+14 ;)
     
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  14. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Yay! What a sweety! Energy is great! More activity also can bring bg lower, so keep checking when you can. ;)
     
  15. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Here I go, learning again. Thank you, Sandy.

    Should I try 0.5 next time, or a skinny 1?

    I'm going to call my vet and see if anyone there is familiar with TR. I have a hunch no one is. I was really disappointed in the lack of information they provided. They were glad I was ok to test at home, but they mostly just wanted me to call back in a week (next Monday) with my numbers. They sent me home with one page of feline diabetes info, some syringes, and that's about it.
     
  16. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Not quite right. On this forum, we say that the first time you see an under 150, you stop, do NOT feed, and post here for help on the options. Shooting under 150 might be a valid option. The options are all laid out on the Sticky Note on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers. You might want to give that one another read. And print it out to have handy, just in case you are faced with a situation where you don't have power or access to the internet.

    But since you did skip (which is one of the possible options), you can move your PMPS time to whatever is convenient to you.

    Do you think you could measure a 0.75 unit dose?
     
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  17. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Our syringes are marked by half units, so I think I could get pretty close.
     
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  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    And on the vet knowing TR, they might surprise you. My vet had heard about "some work done in Queensland Australia" and that was the extent of it. You can always print off or email the research paper contained in the Tight Regulation Sticky Note. Vets usually like to see that what you are following is peer reviewed and published research.
     
  19. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Mandy, you don't have much data yet, and you are still trying to figure out Freckles' patterns, so your choice to not shoot was likely the right one. Part of this is getting more data so you know onset and nadir for Freckles.

    Just a side note, since you didn't shoot, that 65 technically an "AMBG".

    In the future, when you see a lower preshot number that you aren't used to, don't feed and retest in 20 mins. You want to see if the previous insulin shot is wearing off, and BG numbers are rising naturally. When you stall, don't feed, then test again, you can get a better idea of where Freckles might be heading, which can affect your decision to shoot full dose, partial dose or not at all. And of course, if you get a lower than usual preshot number, you can always post here for help (stall and don't feed), a more experienced person may be able to guide you with the decision.
     
  20. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    you are welcome.
    When did you complete the transition to all low carb wet?
     
  21. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Oops, I'm a slow typer, I didn't see this...I thought if no shot, you refer to it as AMBG, sorry, my bad.
     
  22. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    I second the notebook idea. It's very handy to print out some of those stickies like: how to handle low numbers, TR protocol, the Tilly's papers on TR etc. It's easy to review them when you need to and this board was down for several hours once when Asia went in to lime green numbers, so it's great for those situations as well.

    If you have questions on the way things are written in them, just ask, but it's good to have a working knowledge of what is written there and learn it as best you can. Lots of people are here to help and advise when something gets tricky, but I always found it helpful to my learning to attempt to answer my own question and then ask if I'm on the right track.

    Freckles is a cutie pie, even when annoyed you're bothering her in the bunk! ;)
     
  23. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Thats not wrong as it implies what the BG was at +12 and that there was no shot. You can see that on BKs ss when he was on OTJ trial.
    Speaking for myself, being that Freckles is using insulin, the +14 lets folks quickly know what kind of duration is going on. Important info:cool:
     
  24. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    The day we got her blood test results--Wednesday, January 10th.
     
  25. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    I called the vets--the tech on the phone asked 3 of the Doctors, and none of them were immediately familiar with TR. But maybe they just don't know that terminology. I asked if I could email the journal article for one of them to look over and then one of the doctors will call me back later today. I'll get another BG in about 20 minutes.
     
  26. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    I think Wendy’s recommendation to try .75u is solid. Try your best to measure between the lines. That will be your .75. The important thing is to try and be consistent.

    BTW, what was BG at time of dx?
     
  27. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    The buzzword is "tight regulation" maybe the acronym doesn't mean anything to them. I would think many vets have at least heard the terminology, doubt many are familiar with the protocol. Tight regulation was originally a very successful human diabetes study, by the way, and they developed this version of it for cats.
     
  28. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    500 something. I'll try to remember to ask for it when I speak with the vet. I'm sure it was extra high because Freckles hates her crate, hates car rides, and hates the vet.

    Very interesting!
     
  29. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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  30. Kathy and TiTi

    Kathy and TiTi Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Lannie McVern, Freckles hates her crate, hates car rides, and hates the vet./QUOTE]

    Well, yea, but other than that she felt great, right?;)
     
  31. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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  32. Mandy & Rex (GA)

    Mandy & Rex (GA) Well-Known Member

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    When you test at PS time, if it's still not high, don't feed and post for advice.
     
  33. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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  34. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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  35. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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  36. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    PMPS 227. What should I shoot?
     
  37. Mandy & Rex (GA)

    Mandy & Rex (GA) Well-Known Member

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    0.75u as recommended by the pros.
     
  38. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Good deal. Now yesterday, after her PM shot, she dropped about 100 points in two hours. I was then made aware that I should have kept checking her. What kind of drop warrants that?
     
  39. Mandy & Rex (GA)

    Mandy & Rex (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I was told if the +2 or +3 is the same or lower than the PS number, then it could be an active cycle.

    How often do you feed? You could feed earlier in the cycle to encourage surfing.
     
  40. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    The only real defined feeding times are just after the shots. She usually eats once or twice between them during the day, depending on her appetite.
     
  41. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Well done. :cool:

    Grab a +2 and if it is the same or lower than your PMPS check again at +3.
     
  42. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    It is recommended to test/feed/shoot in that order. Always a good idea to make sure they are eating before you give a shot, because if they don’t want to eat it can get you into trouble.

    Excited to see your +2, looking good so far, Freckles :cat:
     
  43. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    I wrote that wrong. We test, make sure she's well into her food, and then shoot. In the mornings she's following us around trying to convince us to give her food. So far we've managed to resist until after her BG test.
     
  44. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Jan 12, 2018
    +2.5 272 Unless those wiser than I think otherwise, I'm going to call it good for the day. Thank you Stacy, Sandy, Mandy, Christie, Heidi and Wendy. You make this much less daunting.
     
  45. Mandy & Rex (GA)

    Mandy & Rex (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You and Freckles should be fine. :)
    Good night!
     
  46. LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles

    LeeAnn (Lannie)& Freckles Member

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    Good night, Mandy.:)
     
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