1/25 Asia AMPS 456, ultrasound results are in

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-11-5-58-vet-update-mostly-good-stuff.190111/

AMPS 456 Another bounce to the moon! I suspect this is a combination of things, mainly delayed stress from the vet combined with pain, probably a little depot instability as well with all these skipped shots and reduced shots recently. She wasn't purring much last night and seems to purring and happier this morning. She's sleeping by my pillow again since yesterday, which means she doesn't feel well. Hope to get ultrasound results sometime soon.

I forgot to post about the vet visit yesterday, another thing I liked, big difference from the ER situation ("oh, she looks so down" ) the vet saw her lowering her head and trying to hide. That has a medical jargon name, apparently, I forget what it is, but she asked if she has been doing that a lot and I told her no, this isn't a thing other than she doesn't want to be here, is scared, and she's trying to hide from you...and vet accepted that answer as being correct since I actually know my cat and she doesn't. Refreshing.

 

Nice to hear that Asia is a bit happier this morning and is purring for you.
I think every single cat I've had, with the exception of Allen, has hidden his head in my arm when at the vet's. I'm surprised the ER vet wouldn't recognize that as being a normal reaction.

 

Poor Asia has been through a lot recently, and so have you! Hope she relaxes and feels better today.

 

The only thing that surprises me about that vet is that he is gainfully employed!

 

Me too, she goes on a huge purr riot when we kiss her baldy tummy, she loves it!

 

I'm glad Asia is happier and purry this morning. I hope you get the results soon. Sending prayers.

 

Hoping for good news from the ultrasound results!

 

Thinking positive thoughts for the U/S results.
Our kitties sure don't like going to the vet!

 

Here’s a short video of this sad and hungry little meow meow from yesterday morning. This is what I was dealing with all night while she was fasting. How can you deny the adorable face and pathetic meows?

 

It's quite difficult. I face it on a daily basis with my civvie Keena. He KNOWS time so he goes and sits and stares at me for a good HOUR before their scheduled meal. If I dare to look at him, he gives these pathetic little meows "mommy? food?" while the other 3 cats are just fine. Keena is my version of the cow bell. I go in the kitchen, he meows "FOOD! FOOD!" and the other 3 cats come running..

 

Tugs at your heartstrings! Your mamabean loves you, dear Asia!

 

Aww! You have strong willpower to resist that.

 

Awwww....fasting is so hard on both the bean AND the kitty. Several years ago, our GA civvie Petey had to fast because he was having an emergency dental the next day. I couldn't stand it...I "went to bed" at about 8:00 that night because I was getting so upset about his pitiful pleas for food. Of course I also did not sleep a wink that night, either....

I'm glad she's happier this morning....I hope that carries through the day!

 

Such vets do boggle the mind!

 

Oh, gorgeous girl!
I hope the U/S results are good, Stacy...

 

Oh my. I would've folded. Dunno how you stayed strong.

 

OMG! How precious ... and those little squeaky meows!

 

Ah, she's so sweet!
Luckily the only times I've had to fast Boomer is prior to a dental.
Allen has to be fasted once a week in order to get meds to keep his calcium level in check.

 

Oh how cute!

 

Ultrasound results are back. Great news! Asia probably has a kidney infection! I know that doesn't sound like great news, and I know for humans it's a very painful condition, but it's great news for her because if it is an infection and we can clear it up, that means her kidney values that have shot through the roof recently might be artificially inflated and her CKD isn't quite as bad as we thought. She does have pancreatitis as well, it's been confirmed. Looks like IBD too, though largely asymptomatic as far as I can tell.

The worst part of this is I am going to have to pill her as zeniquin is the most effective antibiotic to reach the kidneys. Convenia is an option, but it doesn't have much success at getting in to the kidneys, so that will be a last ditch effort. This pilling thing is going to suck for both of us, and what an understatement that is. Please pile on all your tips and tricks, just to save you some effort: she doesn't care for treats, so no pill pockets and the like, I can't crush this up and there is no way she would eat it. Have pilled her before and the number one problem was she seemed adept at coughing it back up. She's amazingly skilled at getting out of a towel burrito and whips her head side to side, so aim and accuracy are a challenge to put it mildly.

Thanks for all the vines and thoughts, this has been a rough week, but I cried happy tears today when I heard this news!

 

Yay on the kidney infection being the culprit!

Have you tried a pill popper with a water chaser? Or put butter on the pill before pilling her so it can't come back up as easily?

 

Great news!

 

I haven't had success with the pill popper in the past, but I still have one and I'm going to try again. Also going to try to put the pill in a gelcap with butter on it. Thank you, Mandy!

 

Prayers and crossed paws for treatable infection and feeling better soon!

 

Wonderful news!!! I know you are so relieved. Isn't there any other way other than an U/S to discern a kidney infection? They are expensive.

 

Congrats! I'll take happy tears any day! I was going to suggest a piller. If you have had problems before, it might not be the right size. Maybe try again and describe any problems you might have.

I watched your video several times today. I'm so glad you got good news and can manage through this. Yay! Now, please pass the Kleenex!

 

Great news! Happy for you and kitty

 

The vet said they usually show up in urine cultures, but I've read on here that isn't always the case. Here's the sad bit, she had a UTI before and another suspected one this past September, but culture came back negative. I have since wondered if it were indeed a kidney infection instead and asked my vet if that would explain some things like the suddenly high kidney values. My vet assured me she would have more symptoms if it were. Well guess what? She has one now and I think a good many of her symptoms are more related to pancreatitis than anything else. And she's still purring and happy to see me. Cats really do hide pain well.

 

That's good news!
We've had a heck of a time pilling Allen as well! Put it as far back in her mouth as you can get it. Follow with some water (I use room temperature water). If she froths/drools after then next time put a bit of butter on her mouth right after the water; it will help take the taste away and encourage her to swallow so that the taste leaves her mouth.
Good luck!

 

Ooooooooo mmmmmmmm geeeeee that face!!! So happy for your results (never thought I would congratulate someone on a kidney infection) love those lil moos.

 

Wonderful news!
Pills are so difficult. We gave up trying with Rusty: he got Convenia. Hoping for pill success for you and Asia.

 

Pilling success! It worked! Holy guacamole!

Used tiny gel cap smothered in butter and a pill popper. She had no idea what was coming, so I suspect it won't go as easily tomorrow, but who cares right now, it worked today!!!

Thank you all for the tips.

 

Great news that its "only" a kidney infection

 

I'm glad it is a kidney infection and not something worse. I hope you can get the pills in her. I've had success putting it in the side of the mouth and pushing it down past the tongue. They can't spit it back out that way. Of course follow with some food or water to make sure it goes down.

 

That a girl Asia!!!!

I am happy that it is something treatable and I hope she continues to put up with the pilling.

 

Loving this whole thread! That video made my heart melt and brought such a smile to my face!!

So happy to hear the diagnosis - that’s definitely better news than it could have been. Yay! Poor girl - cats really are too good at hiding pain!

So glad the first pilling went so well! Fingers crossed it continues to - Darwin has really surprised me as well! (Though some days are better than others!)

 

I think the gelcap is the biggest difference, I had never heard that trick before. If they can't taste it, and maybe it's not such a fight to spit it out? I'm not assuming every time will be as easy as tonight, but at least I know it's possible! I also think she's feeling bad because I didn't get as much fight as I expected.

 

@Marje and Gracie what would you recommend as a good "I'm on abx" amount for probiotics? I'm using the one you use.

 

I use the Renew Life Ultimate Critical Care that is, I believe, 50b CFU and use 1/2 cap bid. I’m sure you know but I”m posting for others.....be sure you separate the probiotic in time from the a/b by a couple hours.

 

Mine is the ultimate flora 15 billion, did I get the wrong one? Or do you just use that one for daily and the ultimate critical care for use with antibiotics?

 

Correct.....the 15b is what I use for daily maintenance and I up it substantially to the critical care for use with antibiotics.

Zeniquin and Baytril are from the same class of antibiotics. My vet always uses Baytril for kidney infections but using Zeniquin is the same.....just a different name, really, since they are both fluoroquinolone antibiotics. They are the best drugs for kidney infections; however, you cannot give them short term as most antibiotics. They need to be given at the very least for four weeks for a kidney infection but six weeks is better. The kitty then has to be off them for a full week before you can see if the infection has resolved (usually via ultrasound).

I know it’s going to take more to keep her happy with the pilling, etc, but I’m glad you got a dx that you can work with.

 

Yay for a treatable kidney infection! And yay for successful pilling! Here is the Piller I just bought and I really like it better than the the one with just a plunger.

 

Thanks, I will order the critical care.

Now I see why I wasn't a fan of Baytril. Meh.

It says don't give within 2 hours of aluminum, that would be her p binders, so I should leave them out of the foods 2 hours either side of the antibiotics? I'm giving at PMPS, so she doesn't get food 2 hours before anyway.

 

Ha! I ordered that one earlier today, you put water in it as well? I thought it was a handy idea to get it all done in one motion, but I'm concerned with her apirtating the water, so that needs to go in from the side, but I'm not sure I could get the pill in from the side.

 

Yes...it’s a pain to balance out all those meds and keep the appropriate ones separate from each other. When I had to do that, I made a printed schedule with check boxes because I’m OCD haha. But it helped us keep it straight because Mike was helping give the meds as well.

 

Me too! I write it in my log, I try to put it in my SS but it's annoying and tricky to do on the iPad, I can only add on to the end of a sentence and not in the middle if it gets too long. I also have little pill boxes with 4 slots for morning, noon, evening, bed and then I know if I forgot one. And of course, I have an absurd amount of reminders set on my phone.

 

Ah! What a lovely girl she is!
I really love Asia's eyes.
Stacy, I sincerely hope that Asia will feel better

 

That video about did me in. I don't know how you resisted her.

I am very OCD. When I was treating four elderly cats with cancer and multiple other issues, I had a spreadsheet for each of them, printed out, with their meds and doses listed, and I filled in the times I gave them. That way, DH knew what had been given and what needed to be done if he should have to take over, and I was less likely to forget something (a real danger). We even had a hand-written notebook for BG readings we kept with our testing and shooting supplies, so everything was recorded immediately, and then I transferred it to the SS when I had time. Recordkeeping was a huge issue for us, but I do think I would have gone completely insane without it.

This whole dance is so overwhelming. I found something very comforting in having records of everything.

Vines and prayers and many s sent your way.

 

I try to give Girlie pills this way - but I'm nowhere near as successful as the woman in the video!

 

It doesn't look it would hold the pill and water at the same time, but I haven't tried it.

 

I checked Wedgewood and if I'm correct Zeniquin is Marbofloxain. They make it a few ways other than a pill. The paste might be easier to get into Asia. Comes in different flavors and I would think a paste would be very difficult to spit out . It does come in only one dosage but they also make it in a chew treat so there are other options besides the pill.
Worth looking in to.

If pilling is the only option I had to pill Ming and got Wedgewoods tiny tabs and I would put a little cream cheese around the pill and pop it in his mouth. Never spit it out and I think it was simply the thick consistency of cream cheese. Not to mention he loves the flavor of cream cheese so he didn't object

Marbofloxacin oral paste

to Asia

 

YAY!!

 

I saw a vet tech do the water chaser trick at the clinic. I'd never heard of it before.

 

What great news that you have found something treatable to blame for Asia's problems! Fantastic news!
It's kind of scary it takes an ultrasound to diagnose a kidney infection.
Orbax (same class as Zeniquin) gave Yum liquid poo. I fought it off with S. boulardii and canned pumpkin.

 

I just deleted my nice pilling write up because I didn't check the video. My vet taught me to use my ring finger to open the jaws, gives a little more flexibility of the thumb and forefinger to get a little further back in the throat. If it is on the very back of the tongue they have trouble getting it spit out. Let go but gently hold her mouth closed and rub the throat a bit. A bit of water also helps the pills go down so I usually tried to do it after he just had a drink. I would be worried a bit about aspirating water if injecting it into the mouth as well with any force.

I used liquid zenequiun from the vet, Jack was always so hungry he didn't notice. When he got pickier with fuds, any medication made him turn his nose up to the laced food.

Glad it is something easily treatable and hopefully Asia doesn't mind too much and starts feeling better soon.

 

Your little potato bug cracked me up with her sweet meows but how sad!

 

Thank you, Tricia!

I’m the same way, I would lose my mind without my notebook, SS and my handwritten log. More than several times, I’ve entered data incorrectly on my SS and I arrive at a +11 when it’s still 2 hours until shot time! Thankfully, I can just check in my log, find the mistake and correct it. The SS is great for me because I can see visual patterns that would be nearly impossible to see in my log, but my log is extremely accurate because I write everything down the moment it happens.

My notebook is an invaluable tool as well because I have all of her records and info right in front of me. Even though the vets have the same info, they don’t always remember or have it in front of them, and I can save a lot of time and ward off potential mistakes by finding it myself. Was on the phone with the vet yesterday and since the results from the culture weren’t in, she prescribed antibiotics based on what the last culture was susceptible too, I had that info for her, in my handy notebook.

 

Thanks, Darrah. They always make it look easy in the videos! Using a cat that is used to it or doesn’t mind as much helps. We need full burrito, Asia does the crazy front paw stuff.

 

I really hope it doesn’t come to that, I ordered some extra heavy duty probiotics that will be here on Sunday, I hope that keeps it at bay. She had that sort of reaction before to this antibiotic. The liquid chaser is really important because some meds can actually eat away at the esophagus if they sit there too long. I also thing it’s sad, expensive, and stressful that the only way to properly diagnose a kidney infection is with an ultrasound. I’m assuming they aren’t all that common, but Asia being her age with CKD and diabetes has a perfect condition set for it. You know how they use a needed to collect a sterile urine sample from their bladder? They can also do that to their kidney to diagnose a kidney infection. I’ll take the ultrasound over that any day, sounds painful and much more risky.

 

This one’s a head thrasher, as soon as I go for the jaw to pry it open, that is her response “no, no, this is not okay, you mustn’t” I think I caught her quite by surprise last night and as well she was feeling crappy enough that she had less fight than she usually would. They have pilled her at the vet before and have said to me “wow, she is really strong, I wasn’t expecting that at her age”.

I considered liquid, but this is a serious infection and any time you compound a pill into a liquid, the dose is never very precise, I have recent proof of that the one time I gave her liquid cerenia. As well, she tends to spit and drool with liquids, no matter how “yummy” they supposedly are, so I never know if it’s all getting to where it should be going.

Thanks for the tips and support. I hope you are doing okay, Wes.

 

Thanks, Michelle, I considered having it compounded too, but for so many reasons, if I can get this pill down, it is the best option and chance she will have at conquering this infection. The butter helped and is probably similar to the cream cheese trick. Asia’s just not very food motivated so it makes all these things a little more annoying.

 

I gave her a wee bit of pumpkin to assuage my guilt “well, if you’re really that hungry” but... I knew she wouldn’t eat it and she didn’t. Fasting kitties is cruel and unusual punishment. And double that when they are so cute and pleading. If I fasted Toki I might not feel so sorry, because her reaction would be something like “look hooman, feed me now, or I chomps your toes!”

 

I understand. The longest I ever had to fast Gracie was six hours for a specfPL. My anesthesiologist is not one who likes them fasted more than 3-4 hours before the procedure.

 

With time and advanced planning on my side, I would push for a compromise. For anesthesia, it’s one thing because there have been lots of studies to support a shorter fast, but for ultrasound, not so much (though I did find one, a human one). If she has to have another one and I know they are just looking at her kidneys, I’m going to haggle a bit for a much shorter fast.

 

Great idea especially since you are building a relationship with this vet.

 

They do. Tounsi was dying of a thromboembolism (FATE) and I didn't see that he was in pain for a whole day. My huge regret and guilt about his death was missing that.

I always go for stealth rather than strength. I've been lucky to have easy pillers (Bagha and Quintus), but I also had Tounsi (impossible to pill but thankfully greedy) and my stepmom's old Fripouille, pill spitter extraordinaire.

Here are what my tips are:

• as with everything else "uncomfortable", make pilling a part of a larger, more pleasant process: chin scratch, cuddle, head scratch, whatever. The idea is to have an overall pleasant experience with a "meh wtf?" moment in the middle and that continues being pleasant afterwards. Fripouille's human would let her run away afterwards. I kind of held her there and continued petting. Within a week or so she was much more relaxed.
• aim to stick the pill in the throat on the palate side rather than tongue. much harder to spit it out if it's not on your tongue but already in your throat.
• go for speed: open, pill, close, rub throat and continue scritches, all that in less than 1.5 second (not kidding)
• once pill is in, close mouth, rub throat, and generally cuddle-hold rest of head if you can
• I hold the pill between my thumb and forefinger, gently push the jaw open with my middle finger, then lunge inside and push the pill in with my index
• tilt head back before opening jaw, holding it with the other hand -- this is where you want to be fast if you have a wriggler like Fripouille and Tounsi, and where stealth helps: if you're rubbing and scritching the head already, the moment you seize it and pull it back is less obvious. I also rub chin-throat if that makes the cat pull its head back on its own.
• exposure therapy: at first Tounsi just wouldn't let me hold his head. So what I did was multiple times a day, I would scritch/pet his head and briefly seize his head and let go and continue scritching ("nah you didn't see anything, did I do anything?"); little by little he started minding less because it was a gesture with "no consequence"

Last but not least, you can use clicker training to teach a cat (even an old one) to let you hold its head and tilt it back, even pill it, for example. But that takes work upfront, before you actually need to pill the uncooperative cat.

Hope there's something helpful for you in here!

 

I'm glad the butter worked!! I forgot that my IM vet mentioned butter too along with the cream cheese as a way to "coat" the pills.
Looks like Asia's numbers are coming down
Have a great weekend and lots of chin scritches to Asia from me