Bunny was 385 before food

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Bunster, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    Hi, Bunny has gone a year with no insulin, but due to her needing allergy shots we started noticing her drinking a lot so we started testing her more often and her numbers were in the 200’s about 5 hours after eating breakfast so today we decided to test first and it was 385...as I remember, that is quite high?
    ....
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is high. It could be the steroid she needs for her allergies that brought her out of remission. If that's the case I wouldn't wait too long to give insulin. I've read here many times that catching it early can be helpful in getting her BG under control quickly.
     
  3. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    We plan on starting today, I’m here to relearn everything, such a wonderful group!
     
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  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We're here to help!
     
  5. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    Can someone set me straight on this? If eating raises her numbers, and she is at 385 before she eats, then insulin will actually help her digest and use the food she eats and also lower her numbers? I’m trying to get an overall picture of everything...we will test her again before this evenings feeding and shot....thanks for everything!
     
  6. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Basically yes. Eating does cause a spike in numbers usually. You’ll see that up to about +2 (2 hours after shot). The insulin should help bring numbers down after that. Prozinc usually creates a smile curve...high in the morning and evening dipping lower throughout the day.
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Insulin is involved in getting the glucose from her digested food into her bloodstream where it gets sent to all the cells in her body to provide energy. When her pancreas isn't making enough insulin of its own - or none - the glucose from her food stays in her bloodstream giving a high reading when you test BG. Also, because her cells aren't getting the glucose they need she's literally starving and her appetite will increase. Her body will find other energy sources from its fat and muscle tissue so she'll lose weight. The extra glucose in her bloodstream will be excreted in her urine and that pulls a lot of water with it so she'll pee often and a lot. Giving insulin corrects the insulin deficit in her body. That's the very simple outline of what goes on. :)
     
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  8. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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  9. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    This morning preshot, prefood she was 409... we are only giving her 1 unit every12 hours and will adjust it as I understand only after 3 cycles of high numbers. She has already responded to the insulin, more active, less hungry, less hanging at the water bowl and less peeing. I’m going to attempt to make a chart like everyone has so I’m easier to understand :)...thank you all again!
     
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  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You'll also want to set up a spreadsheet so you can keep track of the numbers you get. here is the link to that in case you don't still have your old one:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    If you do still have your old one, you can use that and just add new dates.

    As a reminder, you'll want to get a test or two in the middle of the cycle (usually around +4 to +7) whenever you can to see the impact of the insulin so you know if the dose is appropriate and safe or not.
     
  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Sorry she's our of remission. I know first hand what a bummer that is.
     
  12. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    We tested her at +6 ( no food for two hours) and she was 185 This morning amps before food she was 384...

    Do I need to take her food up before I test her mid cycle? Thank you for the link!
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No you don't have to take food away before the mid cycle test. You want to see how her BG responds to the dose under normal circumstances. The no food for 2 hours before the pre shot test is so you know the dose is safe relative to the non food influenced BG.
     
  14. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    My husband is also involved in this, he gives the shots and he keeps asking if hernumbers are still too high, amps she was 384, +6 she was 185 then pmps she was 275....I understand the 3 cycle thing and upping her dose in small amounts, but are these numbers good or bad?

    I’m attempting to get the spreadsheet now...
     
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  15. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Heading in the right direction for sure.
     
  16. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    I think I got the spreadsheet added..I need to fill it out next..
     
  17. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Your SS is loaded and I can see it!

    Her numbers aren't bad...especially so early in the game. You might be able to move the shot up to 1.25 if you can do that? She could definitely stand to come down some.

    Remind us, what do you feed? And do you test for ketones?
     
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  18. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    She eats Fancy feast classic pate and nibbles a bit on her sisters royal canin dry SO food but not enough to worry about, she prefers wet, oh and she eats plain yogurt once a day. and yes I test for Ketones also, so far nothing shows up on the strip

    the syringes we use are U40 and it will be a task to go up .25 but we know we may have to soon so we will work it out..

    Just to remind anyone reading this, we had her regulated nicely until she overdosed on insulin last March( we weren't home testing and just following our vets advice) and after her seizure her numbers stayed normal for almost a year, then we had to break down and give her an allergy shot so we knew to start checking her again more often..
     
  19. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good! Right, thank you for the reminder...my memory is really bad. :) It would be super helpful to add that info to your signature if you could...that way we'll all remember each time we see you post that this isn't your first rodeo and that she'd had remission before.

    Just do the best you can with the 0.25. It's more important that you're consistent from shot to shot than that you are perfectly at 0.25. It might help to get one syringe and pull some colored water into it at about what you think 1.25 would be, then just use that to measure future shots against. That way, you know you're giving the same amount and it's close to 1.25.
     
  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Good job testing and getting that ss going.
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree with trying 1.25 u.
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    One thing to note on second rodeos is that you need to be much more aggressive with dosing than the first time. It is much harder to get a cat into remission the second time (first hand experience over here :(). So I would go with the increase as soon as you can, and then not stay at one dose for very long unless the numbers require it. 3-6 cycles and then increase again. You might also consider getting the U100's so you can feel comfortable with measuring smaller increases.

    Also, any kibble can be too much kibble. BG increases have been measured on even just a few pieces - folks sometimes use them when their cat is going too low too fast. I'm wondering if we can help you find a food for your other kitty that might be safer for both of them? The SO is for urinary issues, right?
     
  23. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    My other kitty has crystals or is prone to them, I do encourage her (Muffy) to eat all the fancy feast she wants, I would love to find a food that is good for everyone..I have a third cat that we rescued as a stray and she tends to goggle and throw up immediately...so it's a juggling act here :)
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My cat was on RC Urinary SO wet food for a very long time leading up to his FD diagnosis. I switched him to low carb wet food immediately after and I add extra water to all his wet food meals. He hasn't have a bout of cystitis since - different from crystals, I know, but I think the extra water is beneficial for a variety of urinary issues.
     
  25. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I haven't dealt with crystals myself, but I've read several other people report the same as Kris - adding extra water to a healthy wet food is sufficient for most cats.

    You could also consider Nature's Variety Instinct Raw if they will eat raw - it has blueberries which help with UT issues. If I remember right, Primal has blueberries and cranberries in their frozen raw as well (I'm out of that right now so I can't double check).

    You could also post on the Main forum and I'm sure folks would chime in with their experiences to give you some more ideas of what might work.
     
  26. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    If I could find a low carb wet food that is also good for Lucy's tendancy to throw up
     
  27. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Do you know why she throws up? What makes it better or worse?
     
  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Struvite crystals I assume? Dr. Lisa has some info on them on this page: http://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/. Generally speaking, a water rich diet should help. You could certainly give it a try and see if it helps if you feel comfortable with it.
     
  29. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    when we first rescued her she came with 4 kittens, after a few months she removed all her fur so the vet gave her a dose of hormones which helped, she has separation issues so I try to give her lots of attention, she will eat too fast or too much and throw it up..I give her tiny amounts at a time which helps but not 100%.
     
  30. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if a timed feeder would help - then it would slow down how much she can eat at a time and free you up a bit at the same time. I wonder how she might do on some CBD as well to help with the anxiety and also settle her stomach a bit. Is there any wet food that your current dry-food kitty likes? Knowing what she likes might help us recommend something that's similar but low carb.
     
  31. Bunster

    Bunster Member

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    she likes raw chicken, beef, and fancy feast..she eats the royal canin so too..where can I get CBD?..maybe I need it more LOL...
     
  32. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You could make the raw meat her main diet if you add a few supplements. There is a recipe on catinfo.org, or you can by the pre-mix on foodfurlife.com and just stir in with the raw meat.

    I’m on my phone so sharing links is hard right now. You could google Charlottes Web CBD for the version loads of folks use. And it’s good (and legal) for humans as well, so help yourself! :D
     
  33. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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