Pig 7/22 amps 377

Yesterday's

*Sigh*

Well, hindsight is 20/20. I wish now that I had given the 8u reduced dose since he decided to almost reach for red today... Good think he was not being overly ambitious. The good thing about the skip, though, is that now I can rest assured that the depot is basically reset. I hope, anyways.

Despite all of yesterday's excitement, he seems to be doing pretty well. His bladder is bigger today, but I expected that. He will not really want to move in really high numbers and especially in anything lower than a 70. I want to aim for 80-120. That is my goal, but seems he has a mind of his own at this point.

I want to look at incorporating some other proteins in his rotation. Probably a red meat and probably beef. I need it lower phos and the pork is one of the higher phos that RadCat offers, but he has been doing so fantastically well on it. His phos levels were fine, though, so I am not so sure this is as much as a worry as keeping his digestive tract going good and thus, him feeling good. He pees more frequently when he is feeling better..

We are going to start the green lipped muscles on the morrow and I sure hope they help him have less pain. After all that I have read, I feel like there is some real value to them. I am curious to see if they will improve upon his mobility. Right now, everything is geared towards this bladder, which seems to be affected by the whole body. ie. if he feels cruddy, he won't pee - if he is constipated he can't pee - and on and on...

Great days to all the beans and kittehs!

 

I am getting kind of nervous even on the reduced dose. He has dropped from 377 to 179 in just 5 hours. That is a 200pnt drop. The last time I saw movement like that on a dose was at 40uL and 4uR and the R had not been in rotation for quite a while.. I am toying with dropping him again, even though he has not earned it yet. I mean, this is the first cycle on this dose and he is dropping far and fast... @Wendy&Neko what do you think?

 

Sorry to miss the tags, been busy with a regatta all weekend and about to fall down from exhaustion.

Hold the course on the dose. Or reduce again if nervous, you can always go back up if needed. As you can see he is steadying out now. Often you can get fast drops like that after a skip.

 

I trust no one else's judgement like I trust yours. We will hold the dose and I will monitor carefully.

Thank you for the response! And no worries! You have to have a break for yourself sometimes! I hope you had fun!

Please, get some much needed rest!

 

It's probably good you skipped the dose. He took awhile to rise back, and you don't want a 4am hypo. Maybe this will be a lucky move and he will now be at 16.0 units!

I don't know what is the deal with "green lipped muscles" (mussels). Are they tastier or cheaper than regular cat food?

 

Well, Jeff... He may just be going to **shhhh, not too loud...** 14uL! He dropped really hard and fast and I think had he stayed in the blues, I would hold the dose like I literally just told Wendy I would... But, he is in greens already!! But, man.. He came down from 377 @ amps to 98 @ +8! And that is with food and snacks almost all day!

The good thing is this, his digestion has finally calmed and he is passing stools like a pro now!!

 

Well, Pig is crazy for the smell!

They have some very powerful anti-inflammatory properties and are supposed to work miracles on the joints. They add this stuff to the EZ Complete everyone raves about for this very reason. Let me find the link explaining it...

Just scroll till you see their heading … right here

 

14.0 !!! That will be great! Don't tell Pig yet. It took a long time for Leo - almost 2 years after SRT. Maybe Leo doesn't even have Acro anymore.

That is a pretty sharp drop for Pig, even with all the feeding. Heck, I'm just glad we don't have whole threads about poops this week.

Our kittehs are pretty happy on mostly canned food. The mussels look interesting.

 

Jeff.... A 78!!! Holy moly... Maybe I need to do 12uL instead!! Gotta run pick someone up from work... reply in more length soon!

 

So, luckily for you and us, his poos are really lining out!

I may pull him down to 13.5, just to be safe. To drop 300 points is a really strong drop for him. Typically he will trend in about a 50 point spread, not 300! I realize he had no insulin last night, but this tells me that reductions might have been working in the background while the other things were happening. Now, I feel like I really want to stay ahead of this train...

 

Pig came down real nice with that 16U. Let's hope that is the new dose.

It is possible Pig could go OTJ some day. I doubt it with Leo because of the SCL requiring daily prednisolone.

 

Do you think I should hold at 16 or pull down to 14... Not 13.5. I am tired. Lol

 

I think it a good idea to reduce to 14uL. Something feels right about this. If nothing else, it will keep him safe. I can always go back up as Wendy said. To drop so far so fast...

 

I really don't like hypos. Leo had a little one today. At least with 14.0 units, then Pig will be a little safer.

 

I really tend to agree with you. Besides, here is my loose reasoning. If he hit a 78 on the first cycle of a dose, by the time the dose matures then he will have earned another reduction anyways. I am not sure that even works that way, but it sounds good. I hope Wendy doesn't get frustrated with me... It just felt like the right thing to do.

 

If you don't mind posting - could you post which GLM supplement you purchased or are using?

 

Oh Lizzie! I think you might be really interested in trying this GLM out. Not only is it a nutritional powerhouse, but seriously, it might just be the thing you need to get Gizmo's appetite up.

I run allergy tests on the boys with any new thing before I fully add it to the regime. We have never had an issue, but better safe than sorry. So, I let Pig taste it last night and he quite literally freaked out over the smell of it! In fact, so much so that I had to move it from all my other supplements because he could smell it through the jar and was trying to break the jar open, violently so. Well, so Pig liking to eat things is not that big of news. But, here is what it. My Tail has a very good appetite, as long as it is what he likes. As in, he hates raw and quite a few other things besides and opts for the cans over anything. Actually, he will not touch several proteins in cans such as fish, beef, or turkey. He hates them. He wants chicken. He will eat the Fowl ball, but that is only because the turkey is so well hidden. He did not even like the Tiki Cat chicken and quail! It was too close to real meat... Anyways, enough rambling.

So, I put my finger with a bit of this GLM powder on it in front of Tail's face and this picky cat goes WILD for it. As in, he tried to bite my finger and chased me across the house trying to get at my hand because he thought I had more of it! Apparently, it has an incredibly appetizing smell! And then, of course, all the benefits it comes with. Not to mention, being a source of bioavailable fat, it will help with passing stools without clogging up in their systems. MCTs make me nervous...

I found this on Chewy.com for about $17.00 and its a decent sized tub for the dosage amount. The link to Super Snouts Pure Green Lipped Muscle Powder is Here....

If you decide to try it, I really hope he likes it as much as these boys do. They are ravenous for it.

Now, I need to go snuff out your link to the Cerenia tabs, because $17 for 4 is a bit much from Chewy...

 

Thanks for the GLM info.

kvsupply.com

I just ordered 3 boxes of 24mg. Total (including shipping) $47.46 = $15.82/box (of course the more boxes the less because of the flat shipping fee).

 

Still a lot better than Chewy.com on pricing! Thank you!!

 

Plus, chewy does not offer the 24mg. It would be a nightmare trying to get the right dose off a 16mg.... Thank you! You are the best!

 

Hmmm. Shellfish - I worry about phosphorus in it.

Did a quick search - I have no idea how to calculate if this is a high amount but I fear so.

http://www.nurturedseafood.com/nz-greenshell-mussels/attributes/nutritious/

 

How much are you giving? Gizmo get 6mg.

The pills tend to crumble when trying to quarter. Put the whole pill in the freezer for about 10-20 min before trying to cut. I use a pill cutter to cut in half and a very, very sharp exacto-knife to cut the 1/2 into 1/4.

 

Chewy has the 24mg. It looks like they honor the free shipping over $49 (even combining food and RX).

 

No.. I tend to agree with you and I do want to air on the side of caution. However, I do know that this is an additive in the EZ Complete premix and that premix is supposedly totally safe even for the most advanced stages of kidney disease. I am very curious now as to what the dosage and amount of GLM is that would provide benefit, but retain lower phos numbers...

Here is what the EZ complete run down says:

And on GLM:

However, I am going to dig a bit deeper and ask some questions to see if I can find some better answers about this...

 

The vet put Pig on 12mg, but that is a tad high per the 2mg/1kg of body weight dosage needed to be therapeutic. Well, actually, that is a bit low now that I run the numbers again. I did notice they crumble. Mine actually completely fell apart. This is a great tip, the freezer!

 

You are like the internet detective... I searched this all over chewy and could not find it. I have no sleep right now. Its final's week and that is my excuse I am sticking to..

 

Will you pass it along? I love the benefits of the GLM's - it looks amazing. I was using Cosaquin made from Shellfish and Gizmos Phos jumped at the next BW so I discontinued. I did call the company and ask them about it (actually talked with someone in the lab ) and they reassured me that there was no phosphorus but the jump was significant enough that I just couldn't risk it.

Not my tip - just passing it along. It doesn't solve the entire issue but it does help. The 24mg pills are a bit bigger than the 16mg so that helps too.

I hope the week goes quickly and you get some rest. Good luck on your finals

 

Absolutely! I think the difference here (not sure yet) is the use of the shell just as the difference in the use of bone/egg shell. I believe cosaquin makes their product a lot like a humans collagen supplement is made and of course, that would sky rocket the phos! I cannot believe the company told you there is none in it. Sounds fishy, pardon the pun.. But, I did some research on the egg yolk and while it is higher in phos. it is not a detriment in the amounts that are needed to give and I am thinking that the GLM is going to be about the same way. My main concern here is that if you add two phos contents to a diet, that will act in a cumulative way to increase the overall level of phos in the diet. I will know more here soon... These are just my preliminary ideas..

Is he not on Adequan? I do believe you would be overly pleased with the results and with a very small risk to kidneys. I think almost none. I do have an insert on it here somewhere... found it and uploaded it.

Yes... All I need to do is split it. I left my other half in the fridge and I think the moisture made in moving it from fridge to counter might have contributed.

Oh my goodness, thank you! The last week is always the worst! But, I will get it done and more besides... There is no other choice! I have to get this degree so I can go and get my cat training certification..

 

@Bronx's dad is/was using the same with no phos increase in bw so it may have increased due to something else. It was Nutramax Cosequin which is used by several here. Reputable company so I wont discredit them. They have published customer service numbers and were very responsive when I called.

He was but eventually the doses made him nauseated. A lot of stuff made him not feel well. I am now thinking it was all due to the anemia and if he hadn't been anemic he would have tolerated other stuff much better. I really didn't see much improvement when he was on it. He is doing so much better now that his HCT is in the "normal" range.

Why he is anemic - who knows.. It is a mystery.

Not sure if you saw my update the last time I took Gizmo to the vet - he pee'ed in the carrier on the way home and there was -0- blood (not even a tint of discoloration). Have not done another U/S but was very thrilled that there seems to be no more blood in the bladder/urine.

 

I sent the company (Super Snouts) an email requesting the phosphorus in one scoup/250mg (daily dose).

Check out their website. They have lots of stuff including hemp/cbd oil and products.
https://supersnoutshempcompany.com

They even have hemp/CBD products but I don't think it would be good for diabetic kitty
https://supersnoutshempcompany.com/...l-soft-chews-thc-free-full-spectrum-5mg-chew/

Active ingredients per HEMP+JOINT CHEW:
PCR Hemp Actives (Water Soluble)………….5mg
Green Lipped Mussel………..300mg

Inactive ingredients: Water, Coconut Glycerin, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Beef Liver powder, Flaxseed Oil, Sunflower Lecithin, Tapioca Starch, Natural Flavor (from oregano, flaxseeds and plums), Natural Mixed Tocopherols.

 

Sorry... Stuck at work...

Oh! No! I have not had the chance to cruise the board that much lately. School keeps me pretty busy!! But, that is absolutely AMAZING! How wonderful!

So, do you think that this means those urinary issues have passed? Maybe the 'blob' dissolved somehow.

I say this because I asked my vet about Pig's thought to be clot in his bladder. She said it is not a worry as the acidic environment of the bladder would eventually dissolve any clots that may be present. However, Dr. Fidel did say to keep a watch on it in case it dislodged, but nothing about it dissolving.

I asked the one of the founders of FoodFurLife about the GLM and this was her response:

Which answered my question, but didn't answer my question. I asked another:

Maybe I am missing the point... ???

Except, I have heard the ideal range to shoot for is .7-.8 with 1% being on the high end...

I also inquired about the egg yolk and received basically the same answer. That the quantities given are not enough to be bothered with and that the risks outweigh the benefits. I will say, I've been giving Pig the yolk since about a month prior to SRT and his phos levels actually came down since the last labs... So, there is that...

 

Man... That's a bummer on those chews. I bet Pig would love those!

 

I had emailed FFL about the phos in the EZ egg yolk

This is the response

The amount of minerals relevant to CKD in the recommended amount of egg yolk (1/4 teaspoon of powder twice a day) are:

Phos 14mg
Calcium 4mg
Sodium 2mg
Potassium 3mg

I then replied and asked
Is 14mg of phosphorus high or low? Lol. I admit that all these calculations and trying to figure out carb % completely confuse me. His Phosphorus level is currently in the normal range (yay) but it has taken me almost a year to get it down and I really don't want to defeat my progress.

FFL response
The 14mg of phosphorus the egg yolk adds is quite a marginal amount. The benefits of the egg yolk FAR outweigh that little bit of phosphorus. We are contacted frequently with this question about egg yolk, as there are apparently many people that simply repeat what they've heard: "Egg yolk is high in phosphorus and shouldn't be fed to cats with CKD." Except what they're missing is we're not feeding an entire yolk! This little bit of yolk and phosphorus has little impact. Carolina and I (co-founders of Food Fur Life) both feed yolk to our CKD cats for both hairball prevention and to help prevent constipation (as the yolk benefits motility and transit time, often a problem in CKD cats). It has not impacted their kidney values.

I hope this helps,

Laurie

 

Yes, Laurie is who I spoke too. Apparently they do get this asked very often. I have seen a couple posts in regards to the egg and its always the same answer.

With that said, I totally get the hesitancy on the phos levels. But, if you look to Pig's labs, his phosphorous did come down, even with the addition of egg yolk. Maybe, the amount is so small that the addition really is very marginal.

I have a question logged to an Admin on the CKD group about the GLM. Hopefully, she will have a response soon. However, I have been told she uses Moxxor and that is full of GLM...

I have one more outlet to ask. I will find out how this works...

But, no worries... The calculations confuse the poo out of me, too...