Bronx's hypo & arthritis thread pt 2

Hi all,

Noticed pee on the floor by the box and he seemed spacey at about +2, so I tested him and meter read "Lo" 4 times . Even though there is no way Adequan can cause BG to drop. the last time he hypo-ed on 3/18 was the last time he got an Adequan injection. He wasn't almost falling over like last time but did seem spacey. Also, wasn't so interested in high carb food either like the last time, but meter kept reading "Lo". I rubbed karo all over his tongue and finally got him up to 20. But then I tested him again and meter read 238, and then "Lo" again, and then "Hi"??? Bad strips? Bad meter? I tested myself and it read 287 (I am not diabetic). I don't have a backup meter, so opened up a new box of strips and tested myself and it read 118. Tested Bronx with the new strips and it was 20, and then 21. Since the last time this happened he went "Lo" again by the end of the cycle, I decided to bring him to vet for them to use their meter to confirm my testing and put him on a glucose drip, if needed. He was 40 on vet's meter, but that was definitely karo influenced. We both agreed to leave him there to get a glucose drip. She also said there is no way Adequan can do this, just so weird that same thing happened the last time I injected Adequan. That's why I made sure I was home today after the Adequan injection.

Please send vines for my Bronxie boy

 

Poor little Bronx. I am so glad you were home today and could get him to the vet. At what time did he get the Adequan injection? The coincidence is so odd. I know that getting rid of pain can impact blood sugar, but not to the extent you are seeing.

Tons of vines for your best pal.

 

At +11 in the pm cycle (1hr before his AMPS shot)

 

Sending prayers.

 

LOTS OF LOVE,LIGHT and HEALING!!! Your Guardian Angels are Definitely with BOTH of you!

 

Sending prayer vines your way.

 

Poor guy, I'm glad you were able to get him to treatment quickly. What a nightmare this must be! Hope he gets back on track soon - I'd sure want to know more about the Adequan before injecting it again! Have you given it to him other times without his BG dropping?

 

Thank goodness you were there and reacted fast.

 

Yes, many times. Just these last 2 times he went hypo (he gets an injection about every 2 weeks)

 

HUGE vines and (the power of) prayer I send... and keep sending <3

 

((( Paul and Bronx )))

I'm so glad you were home and able to get him to the vet. Hopefully, he won't have to be there long.

About your meter...
Right before the battery dies, meters will often give crazy/inconsistent results like what you were seeing today. As a precaution, you might want to change the battery.

Take care...

 

So sorry to hear about Bronx and that Adequan reaction. I'd definitely be suspicious of it now - very strange that he's had the same reaction x 2. I have many drug allergies - 11 so far - and I have no idea how/why they develop in humans...but be careful and see if there's a substitute. I've taken meds previously with no problem...then out of the blue would have a bad reaction to it - never will I take that again...so it is possible that he's has developed a sensitivity to it...just something to look into and ask the vet about. If it happens again, I'd definitely move to another medication.

 

The 3V 2032 battery reads 2.98V, so was probably OK. But I did just now put a new one in which reads 3.3V.

A good note to everyone, always have a spare battery for your meter. Or better yet, a spare meter!

 

Tons of prayers for Bronx and you. This is scary for you and we are all standing by hoping all is just fine with him.

 

Thoughts and prayers for sweet Bronx! You too!

And watch the battery in THAT meter too...(voice of frustrated experience...)

 

Just called the vet and he was 69 about an hour and a half ago (3pm EST), so they increased the dextrose drip a bit. Said he seems more alert and scoffed up the food they gave him. They will test him again at 5pm and they close at 7, so we should know the game plan for tonight when that test comes back.

Thanks for all the vines & prayers

 

You and Bronx are in my thoughts
*hug*
Hope his sugars get under control quick

 

Prayers. I hope your boy can come home tonight. I am so glad you caught this. I think the Adequan may just be a coincidence.

 

Just thinking "out loud"

I wonder if the Meloxicam is helping with the pain. I believe that pain can cause (some) them to have high(er) BG.

 

Thinking of you guys and sending more vines.

 

Paul, glad you were there and caught this, sending many many prayers your and Bronx way, so glad you could get him in quickly! I will say many more prayers and glad he gets to stay at vets till more stable

 

So glad you were home to help Bronx! I'd side-eye everything now, especially that meter. I bought a meter a while back because it was cheaper but the variance between readings didn't make me comfortable so I'm sticking to my more expensive meter that seems to give me consistent readings.

 

Sorry to hear, poor little guy has had a rough time lately. Is it possible they are using something new in conjunction with the Adequan that could be causing the reaction? I hope things turn around soon.

 

More vines for Bronx! Hope he'll be at home tonight, cuddling up and feeline good.

 

Sending lots of vines for Bronx!

 

I picked Bronx up at about 7p. His BG on the A/T meter at the vet was 40@+3, 68@+5 & 72@+7 while on a dextrose drip the entire time. They said he scoffed up 2 small cans of some sort of prescription food. On my meter when I got him home he was 120.

Seems tired, but otherwise ok He ain't getting a shot tonight!

Thanks again for all the vines & prayers

 

Awww kitty Glad he was better enough to come home with you.

 

I'm glad Bronx is home with you.

 

So glad Bronx is home! Sending more prayers and vines that he continues to improve!

 

Poor kitty! I’m glad he got to come home. I’m sure he’s much happier. Feel better soon handsome boy!

 

I’m glad Bronx is able to be at home tonight. Sending more vines for continued improvements.

 

Oh how scary. I'm glad Bronx is better now. I'm so glad you were home to check him and get him to the vet!
Keeping Bronx in my prayers.

 

Me and Nelli too <3

 

He looks worn out, Paul.
Gonna sleep good tonight... no doubt
Muah.

 

Yes, definitely worn out. Traumatic day for ole man Bronx

 

They drew blood to see if the kidneys were affected by the Meloxicam and will also do a T4 to see how the thyroid is. I didn't see any improvement with the 4-day trial of Meloxicam, so doubt I will restart that.

 

Yikes! What a scare. Sending strong and hearty spring green Midwestern vines to you both! Hope you guys get some good rest tonight.

 

Paul, what a scare you had today. I'm glad Bronx is home and resting. We are sending tons of special vines for him to feel better tomorrow. s for you.

 

Awww Handsome boy!!!

 

Yep he looks worn out, will say extra prayer for u guys

 

His favorite toy doubles as a pillow for him

 

Today he is back to his normal self

Gave him 1.5u of insulin today. His original dose was 1.5u back in 2016 and hasn't seen that dosage since. Amazing really since he was up to 37u of Lev with 5u of R at his worst about 2 yrs ago before the SRT in May of 2017.

 

Holy smokes!!!!! 37u wow

 

2017, pens lasted about 5 days :

 

I just couldn't imagine

 

@Wendy&Neko said it could still be from the SRT on your last hypo thread.

How is he feeling? When do you get the lab results?

Give Bronx scritches from Texas

 

Tomorrow, just ran kidney & T4 tests. Would love to know if the IGF-1 # dropped from the acro, but I think Wendy has said that number may not drop even after the tumor was successfully zapped?

 

Glad to see Bronx is OK. Thank goodness you caught this when you did. As the Mom of a once 16u twice daily cat, I have to salute you for your fortitude shooting 37u and R together. I don't know if I could have dealt with that. Bronx is obviously in good hands! Scritches for Bronx and hugs to you Paul!

 

You had full labs just a couple weeks ago right? All was ok?

Would low/high T levels influence his numbers this significantly? I know very little about Thyroid issues and only what I have read on Bronx's (and a few others) on Acro. Did he gave IAA also?

 

Thanks Linda! I got 50u syringes at that time so didn't have to use 2 syringes

 

Yes, all was pretty much ok. He did not have IAA but just trying to figure out why he is drinking so much more the last 6 months or so.

 

((((((Paul))))) I missed all this! I am so glad Bronx is home. You both must be spent! The sudden drops must be scary!

With Hypo T they drink a lot too and/ or with CKD. What is does the vet say about these sudden lower numbers?

 

Nausea? Stomach acid? Did you start a new supplement around that time? Labs look pretty darn good! So does the urinalysis.

I am excited for you guys.

 

Hi Bobbie. Yes, that's why I wanted to run T4. Kidney #s have been fine. Vet has no clue about low numbers suddenly. Tumor just died suddenly maybe? I may need to borrow your calipers soon

 

No nausea, no stomach acid. Don't think I started any new supplement. But it did coincide with him getting better & better with the BG #s and being regulated. He did drink a lot as a kitten, maybe he is just going back to normal after the acro affecting everything. For years he never touched the water bowl and I just gave him extra water in his food. Maybe he is just feeling normal again?

 

Holy cow. I though cc was bad getting 11 -12 units

 

I was just tossing out some thoughts.

Please post results when you know. Off to bed. Have a huge meeting early tomorrow morning but will try and check the forum around lunch time.

 

Thanks for checking in Lizzie. This place is not the same without Gizmo here

 

Whew...

 

Hi Paul - sorry to hear Bronx had another deep hypo. Like I said ~March 18, Leo's deep hypo took him about a week to recover. I hope Bronx recovers and you caught it in time.

We have a spare meter and battery - a small cost compared to the overall costs for Leo.

Bronx's insulin demand has dropped a lot since Jan 1.
Jan 1 = 9.5 units/dose
Apr 3 = 2.5 units/dose

I'm pretty surprised at the steep slope of Bronx's insulin usage drop. But also glad to see it.

Leo's SRT summary (3rd tab on his spreadsheet) - shows his insulin usage over time.
9/1/2016 - 18.0 units/dose peak, then SRT radiation
3/1/2019 - 2.0 unis/dose = currently lowest and trending slowly down

 

How is handsome Bronx hangin’ today

 

Hows bronx today

 

Happy to hear that Bronx is home!

 

Doing ok, sleeping a lot but that is probably the Gaba. BG #s are a bit higher than he has been used to but that is because I am being extremely cautious. Still no clue why he dropped so low the other day. Our kitties keep us on our toes, that's for sure!

 

Hi Jeff,

Yes a backup meter and backup battery is crucial along with plenty of test strips.

No clue why he is dropping so much so quickly all of a sudden?

 

Poor little guy has had some rough times recently. I think dad needs to buy him a nice gift

 

Glad he is doing better and they sure do 24 x7

 

I was looking at Bronx SS. Can I ask why he's taking 3 different meds for arthritis? I looked up Metacam for side effects Please read what it says https://animals.mom.me/side-effects-of-metacam-in-a-cat-12257258.html
In your info. you have listed 9 or 10 Herbal products & meds.
(I've been using Herbal products for over 50 yrs.) I haven't been following your Post so maybe there's some things I'm not aware of.
3 of the meds listed on his SS are for Inflammation & all have side effects. ( some of the side effects could be liver or Kidney failure.)
Aren't you concerned that all these different products might cause problems?

 

Go here..
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/bronxs-hypo-arthritis-thread.212092

Also, look at Bronx's labs on his SS. Kidney and liver values are good (last labs were about a month ago).

Bronx has Acro which causes bone growth and arthritis.

And here is a video of Bronx and why Paul is trying anything and every thing he can. It is a QOL issue.

 

Thank you Lizzie. (I can't even watch the video! I'm already crying! )
If it was me I'd wean him off all the stuff & give him the Charlotte's Web CBD oil 2 X's a day & see if it helps. My Vet said it's helping his dog with Arthritis.

Does Bronx have Neuropathy? Is he getting the Methyl B-12?
I feel so bad for Bronx & his dad!

 

Paul is using CBD and B12.

 

Poor little sweetie, he's so lucky to have you Paul.

 

We tried a 4-day trial of Medacam and ran kidney numbers after that to make sure they stayed in normal range which they did. However, did not see any improvement so will not continue the Medacam. Have tried other things but nothing has helped. Actually IM vet does not think Bronx is in pain, he bent/rubbed/squeezed Bronx's front limbs/shoulders and no growls or pulling away. IM thinks maybe the joints are just the way they are from the acro bony growth and he cannot support himself on his front paws from the years of abnormal growth. He has huge clubbed feet from the acro. I am actually gonna stop most of the joint meds and just use fish oil & tumeric golden paste and the Adequan . I still use CBD oil, but every time I increase that it seems that coincides with his constipation issues. I will continue to administer to confirm/deny my theory though. IM also said I am giving too many supplements but did say fish oil is good and suggested to continue the CBD oil.

 

Just ran the kidney numbers again on Tuesday, all looks good along with a T4 which is also normal

 

I thought it may have been Neuropathy and tried a stronger Zobaline equivalent and there was no improvement. And his BG#s have been great the last 3 months which in itself would've shown walking improvement if it was neuropathy.

 

I give CC adequan twice a week quite often when she's limping.

 

I think my adequan vial is filled with insulin instead almost afraid to use it again.

 

FYI - things like hyaluronic acid and Duralactin take a few weeks before you see any improvements. You also need to give just one thing a trial for a while, then try something else. Too much at once is not good, and you won't be able to tell which one is working. Treating arthritis is a three pronged approach. Something for the joints (Adequan, hyaluronic acid), something for inflammation (fish oil, Duralactin is stronger), and something for pain. Neko didn't growl or pull away either, but she moved a lot better and interacted more when the pain was addressed. I'll continue my broken record - try acupuncture.

 

It's interesting because I think ccs numbers are slightly elevated after adequan

 

Maybe lower the dose of adequan.

 

I am using U-40 syringes and vet confirmed my conversion is correct 16cc in a U40 syringe = .40ml

 

Are there any side effects? What about Cosequin side effects?

 

At the time I was giving it to Gizmo i thought so also (with him) but he had so much going on I would be pressed to say absolutely it was the Adequan. It didn't seem to make much of a difference (I think he was on it for ~2 months) so I just discontinued.

 

Remember Gizmo's phos shot up after I started Cosequin. Again, hard to say if that was the cause but he did come down a bit after I discontinued. Bronx's phos level is good and you have been giving him Cosequin - correct?

 

Wait a sec... How much does he weigh? Cc is 16 lbs and the dose is 3.2 ml. Do you mean 1.6 ml?

@jayla-n-Drevon

 

Yes, but not every day lately.

 

I meant 16units in a U40 syringe = .4ml. He is 22lbs and was prescribed .4ml every 3 weeks but I use it about every 2 weeks

 

Oooh ok

 

I have no idea on the conversion but here is the condo where we discussed Gizmo's dosing (etc.)

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...pmps-193-2-143-3-120-4-118-vet-update.180196/

 

I did some research and also confirmed using the water test with using both syringes. Conversion ratio is 2.5 from a U100 to a U40 syringe. (100/40=2.5) A 0.4ml dose would be 40/2.5=16u in a U40 syringe. Vet also said that was correct.

 

Thanks @LizzieInTexas, Muah.

 

IMHO... This is a good plan. Muah,

 

I use it twice a week or she limps like your guy. She still walks stiff but doesn't limp as much.

 

It is my understanding that Adaquin cannot be overdosed?

 

Peace

 

How much do you give? Sub-Q? CC's weight?

 

Muah... to Bronx too!

 

The walking / front leg issue - is not neuropathy. Leo has the same issue, brought on by Acromegaly growth. B12 has not resolved it for Leo either. We traded comments on this, in another earlier Bronx thread.

Leo's version is a bit less, but he has the bowed front legs and walks similar to Bronx. Our poor kittehs. I help Leo get up on a chair or on the couch when he wants. He can do it, but does not like to. Now he is more comfortable going to his floor bed in the kitchen.

 

I don't think CBD Oil would cause constipation. But a lot of meds or supplements might interact & cause it.

I'm very conservative with all meds, even herbal. I've been using Paws Charlotte's WEB CBD oil for over 4 years, It helped my cat with cancer to continue eating & he remained active for over a year till the melanoma spread to his lungs
Not all CBD oil is effective. My vet talked to Cornell University & they told him they tested a lot of brands & some didn't even contain cannabidiol ! The two brands they recommended are Paws by Charlotte's WEB https://www.charlottesweb.com/dog-cbd-oil
And Ellevet Feline https://ellevetsciences.com/products/feline-oil My Vet is using CBD for his dogs arthritis He said in a months time he sees an improvement.

I personally feel CBD OIL is great. If I could afford it I'd take it myself. It's helping my cats with eating & just feeling better. I recently increased from a few drops 3 times a week to 8 drops every day. My Ravan's BG has continued to drop. I think it's from the CBD OIL.

I wish you the best of Luck with Bronx. I understand that you're trying the best you can to help him. I feel that Less sometimes works better. than more.

I wonder if acupuncture would help? Or even chiropractic adjustments?