7/23 Butternut PMPS=132 +1=205 +2=224 +4=260 +6=312 +8.5=269

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Dandelion, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    yesterday

    Looks like I'll be testing frequently tonight.
     
  2. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +5.5=68. my comfort zone has been breached due to speed of descent. gave 1 tsp of FF gravy and testing soon.

    he just pooped if that matters
     
  3. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +6=37
    He has eaten more food. Am I in Karo land?
     
  4. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    how do I get the 911 on the thread correctly?
     
  5. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +6.25=71 Food taking effect.
     
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  6. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

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    Good job getting Karo in him. I'd test again in 30 minutes. I'll take a look at your SS now.
     
  7. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    found the 911 tag.
     
  8. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are in Karo land. Give 1 tsp of gravy with a few drops of karo mixed in.

    I cannot stay up with you. @JeffJ @Bron and Sheba

    Go up to the top of this thread. In the right hand corner, you will see "edit thread." There will be a box where you will be able to click 911/?. Use the 911.
     
  9. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    haven't used Karo yet. Just FF gravy twice
     
  10. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    82 now @+6.25.
     
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  11. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

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    Are you doing TR or SLGS? Either way. Butternut is getting a reduction next cycle.

    82 is most likely the FF gravy talking then. Is 82 at +6.5 or?
     
  12. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    82 @ 6.25. right now. 15 minute intervals .. if I can wait. yikes

    TR, just started levemir 7/15
     
  13. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Crista, can you stay? I've already taken bedtime meds.

    I'm wondering if the 37 was a wonky strip. 68 to 37 in 15 minutes is a big drop.

    Your signature says "AT@ backup when bg low." Which meter are you using right now?
     
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  14. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Thanks for jumping into my thread. I had my alarm set for now and woke up in a panic an hour early for some reason. Glad I checked him
     
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  15. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    human meter now
     
  16. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Crista has it and will be up. Do you need me here Crista?
     
  17. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    he dropped 68 to 37 in half hour. still.... :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  18. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    no physical symptoms so far
     
  19. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My apologies. Was reading quickly.
     
  20. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    76 @ +6.5
     
  21. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    no worries.
     
  22. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Dear everyone that views this thread: Get a Freakin' Hypo Kit and keep it stocked! I'm blowing out my adrenals over this but with confidence... well, a little confidence.... coz I have the tools to respond.
     
  23. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +6.75=87
     
  24. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Red has to go to bed. I think Crista may have dropped.
    I can be on for the next 90 min (until 2am CST).

    Let's stay focused, you are doing fine.
    +6 is looking good.
     
  25. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Thanks. I'm focused. Just seeing my kit all over the counter and expressing gratitude and relief. testing again at top of the hour.
     
  26. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Good update. That will be a good test. That will be PMPS+7 right?

    I used to space Leo's tests to 20 minutes during issues - to give his ears a break. Is Butternut doing okay?
     
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  27. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    yes +7. Butternut is sound asleep and snoring. Per usual. o_O Purring too.

    I get samples from his paw pads.
     
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  28. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +7=92. Purring loudly, his usual. He loves HC
     
  29. AEHawkeye

    AEHawkeye Member

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    This was me last night! I haven’t read all the way through the thread yet, but sending purrs your way.
     
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  30. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    What a sweetie - giving purrs. I'm pretty sure all the sugar kittehs on the forum love HC. But karo and HC usually wear off fairly quickly.

    Now we are looking for 2 hours of decent numbers after the last food. A lot of times, they come up on the gravy/karo, then they drop again.
     
  31. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    We'll take 'em! Thank much.s
     
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  32. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Is testing every 30 minutes frequent enough now?
     
  33. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes. You could do a BG test at PMPS+7 - +20 or +30. If he starts to drop again, then reduce the time between tests.

    For example, if he was still at 37, then we would do 5 or 10 minute tests. But he is pretty high right now, and dreaming away.
     
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  34. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +7.5=109. He looks blissful.
     
  35. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for keeping the chart updated, it has made it much easier to help here.

    When was the last HC/karo - PMPS+???
     
  36. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, just seeing this tag now. I was only online briefly earlier to update Tuckers thread.
    I'm glad @JeffJ could stay with you.
     
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  37. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +5.5 then more @ +6. He's eaten quite a bit of the FF.
     
  38. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Please pull off the 911 tag from the subject - most people are sleeping anyhow, and Butternut is doing fine now.
    I would keep testing until +8. But frankly I doubt he will drop below 85 at this point.

    Kudos to you on this low event. You handled it well, and your kitteh is safe - thanks to you!:bighug::bighug::bighug:

    Just looking at your chart, for everyday testing I would probably not test every hour, but would give him a break and do every 2 hours.:)

    Dandelion and Bron - I'm bailing out. I can see those ZZZZ's floating thru the hallway to my bed.
     
  39. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    It helps me review the event and see that he wasn't <50 for a long time and to see how he responds to what I've given him. I'll add notes later.

    I had an alarm set for +6 to check him but got up an hour early. Guardian Angels here.
     
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  40. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    thanks for staying up with us and your guidance is much appreciated. as far as testing, I was going to stick with +3, +6 etc but then he hit the blues and I had no idea where he'd go.
     
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  41. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Thanks to everyone that checked in and offered support and guidance. Much appreciated and I'll be back on for an assist re his reduction for next cycle that was mentioned up thread.

    Butternut is snor-purring and chasing gazelles in his sleep. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  42. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'll be around if you need me. When is the next test due?
     
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  43. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +8
     
  44. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    He's gone blue @ +8=115
     
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  45. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Butternut has earned a reduction down to 1.25 at the next shot.
    You haven't got which Dosing method you are following in your signature. Have you decided yet? You are certainly testing enough for TR.
    That's good. How long since Butternut has eaten any food?
     
  46. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +6 was the last and it was a good bit of FF
     
  47. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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  48. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    messed that up.

    TR but through yesterday and even during the night I was wondering if it's too aggressive for him due to his age. I don't know enough.

    he's new to levemir and didn't know where he'd go once he was in green and blue territory. I'd rather not test so frequently unless something is brewing
     
  49. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Levemir is a great insulin and it often has a later nadir than Lantus.
    Choose the method that will suit you and Butternut best.
    I think he will be safe now if it is 2 hours since he has eaten.
    He's had some lovely numbers since swapping to Levemir. He might bounce after these low numbers so don't be disappointed if he does. He looks as if he only bounces for a cycle which is good.
     
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  50. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    I want to continue with TR and stay on top of his progress with adequate testing. He needs to get better regulation and crossing my fingers Levemir will help, with lots of SS data to fortify decision-making. I even reviewed his chart before bed and had a hunch he was going to head south.

    1.25 u in the AM for Butternut.

    Thanks.
     
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  51. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    I'll check him again before I go to sleep. Thanks for staying with us. :)
     
  52. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It's only 5.30 pm for me here in Australia.
     
  53. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    A big congratulations on reducie and great job catching it!!
     
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  54. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Thanks. What a night!

    So, he's on the upswing and assuming it'll be even more @ AMPS in a few minutes, we're all good to go with an insulin reduction to 1.25 units? Should I change the thread title or make a a different one?

    He ate his morning meal. Nothing amiss with him
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    Reason for edit: double checking morning dose
  55. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Going for it. 1.25 for Butternut this morning. sorry for confusion. Tired
     
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  56. Crista & Ming

    Crista & Ming Well-Known Member

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    @JeffJ Thanks for helping Butternut last night! I don't know when it happened but I fell asleep even though I had planned to stay. I'm so glad Butternet went up. Gook luck on the reduced dose!
     
  57. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    No problem. We had a good team helping - from around the world!:bighug:

    @Bron and Sheba - thanks for helping when my eyes started drooping.:bighug:
     
  58. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Very good outcome and I appreciate all who watched the thread and chimed in with guidance and support. I could see the animal icons show up on his SS too. :) +3 coming up.

    His chart tipped me off. I reviewed it before bed and imagined possible scenarios based on a few days of data gathering. Somewhere in my brain I must have been disturbed - though not aware @ bedtime - because I didn't sleep well and woke @ +5 instead of +6 -- before the alarm and with my heart pounding. I checked him, fed him normal food because ... my gut told me to I guess and to try and smooth out the decent but he had a different plan. Fast food after that and tons of monitoring. For me there's a gold mine of information in those 3-4 hours of treatment and monitoring. Chart, test, know thy cat and trust thy gut.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    Reason for edit: spelling
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  59. AmandaE

    AmandaE Well-Known Member

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    Congrats and good luck with your reducie! Great catch last night and awesome job handling it :)
     
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  60. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

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    WOW! What an exciting night you had! I hope Nutty behaves himself today - nice going to the lagoon, but take it easy there Nutty - don't wear mama out with your antics :)
     
  61. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Almost chum for the sharks. :eek: He's sporting some pink now and sleeping off his carb hangover. I can leave the house for a bit! :woot:
     
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  62. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    ...then coo-coo-ca-choo, they find their way back to the big 'ol blue. Crush, Finding Nemo

    +9=141

    Reading threads and making my shopping list: Magnifying light. Calipers.
     
  63. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Gone green @ +10.5. Gave 2 tsp of his regular LC food 15 min before +10 to hold him until meal time@ PMPS. Will test +11 and post. He wants his food... our schedule is wonky while we figure this out.
    I've got testing anxiety today. :nailbiting:
     
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  64. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Need to figure out his meals better so I can let him cruise through those two hours before PMPS without eating.

    Potential for a lowest PMPS and will need some guidance again.
     
  65. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    He's 112 @+11.5
     
  66. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Actually his normal food is zero carb - raw. So prior to +10 that's what he ate. He used to eat both raw and LC canned without issue but now the 3% is problematic. Rethinking food choices too.
     
  67. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    That's a good nadir, even though it was real late in the cycle.
    That 112 is pretty low for pre-shot (based on his running pre-shot averages). I don't like skipping doses. But I also don't like 2am "evenings".

    If it was me, and he is still in that BG range, I would skip the dose or do a half dose. That will drain some of the depot.

    If you stand back from the chart and look at doses, he is on a good trend to lower doses overall - from 2.0/2.5 to 1.25. A good trend.
     
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  68. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    no stall then shoot? I"m ok with a half dose too. He didn't bounce today like I expected him to and on less insulin.

    .625 units. o_O
     
  69. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Holy smokes - you have good eyeballs to get that dose! Maybe 0.5F (fat) is what most call it. You will need to do BG monitoring tonight.
     
  70. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    You could stall if you want, but I think his depot is pretty full at this point. The 2am sessions are tough on cats and humans.
     
  71. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    he popped up! PMPS=132
     
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  72. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Does the .5F dose still stand? He'll be eating now and around 10
     
  73. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    The 132 would be his lowest recent-history preshot. I think 0.5F is better.
     
  74. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    .5FAT it is! Awesome. should I get up and test at his nighttime nadir hour besides testing up to bed which is PMPS+3?
     
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  75. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    You probably know I'm pretty conservative. Some others try to keep their cat in lower numbers. So it depends on your goals.

    To me a perfect medium is twofold:
    1) the cat is getting in the dark green/blue for nadir to get past the renal threshold - on a regular basis
    2) the human can get decent rest

    Many owners are on 18-20 hour BG monitoring. Maybe perfect numbers for their cat, but health impacts to the human.

    ....test at his nighttime nadir hour besides testing up to bed which is PMPS+3
    The testing tonight depends on his BG descent. For example, if he is 110 at PMPS+3, then more testing will be needed.
     
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  76. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    I agree with your logic. Im willing to go without much sleep to get him into his groove then hopefully we can cruise but I also don't want to have another hypo event like last night, which I was lucky to catch early. I'll keep an eye on him tonight and post results as I test.
    He just ate with gusto.

    Appreciate your help on this! :)
     
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  77. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Thx. I don't discount the other objectives for diabetic cats. And I admire many people for getting near perfect regulation with their cats. It makes them very healthy diabetics. But it truly is an 18 hour a day job to get there.

    For example, Jamie is BellasMom. She has done a stellar job with Bella. I truly admire her perseverence, and so does Bella! But if you browse thru the chart, that is a 20 hour monitoring job that is happening. Frankly I forecast that Bella will very soon be OTJ (Off the Juice). It doesn't always happen though.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-23-bella-amps-126-2-65-3-68-5-70-pmps-140-2-96.217197/
     
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  78. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Dec 22, 2015
    +4=260. He gets a meal now. I'll do a +6 next.

    Is .5F butternut's new dose until the data says otherwise or was the reduction @PMPS for tonight only?
     
  79. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    That was tonight only. Per the TR protocol, the reduction is 0.25. Let's get Butternut on the new 1.25 dose for the standard 6-10 cycles (3-5 days). Then we can see how he is responding to that reduction.

    I wish he was higher at PMPS preshot today. Anyhow, the depot will get partly drained from tonight. Sorry I am so late to respond.
     
  80. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    +6=312.
    Guess it's safe to sleep for awhile. Thanks for your response about his dose.
     
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  81. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    Dec 22, 2015
    +8.5=269. He's up so I checked his bg. His curve is backwards. o_O

    He just threw up some spit and I didn't find any piles of barfed food around the house to explain his drop.. He's not a pukey cat for the most part so will be watching that today. Normal and seems to want some food now that he's cleaned his pipes. Purring.
     
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  82. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Some cats puke if they didn't get food for awhile. Leo used to puke regularly around 3am - mostly bile.
     
  83. Dandelion

    Dandelion Member

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    oh yeah, I have other pukers. Soggy hairballs in the AM, so much fun. ;)
     
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