6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +9/72 +10/47 PMPS 114

Good afternoon! I just am finally getting around to posting.

Tarragon is all over the place today. We just got back from the vet for some another breathing treatment. The inhaler doesn't seem to be helping his asthma. While we were at the vet, I took in my spreadsheet along with his numbers from today. (The +8/99 is after we got in the door from the vet, which is unusually low for a vet visit) She is convinced that he is in a perpetual bounce with the pink numbers for preshots and thinks he is getting too much insulin. She wants me to either pull him off it completely for a few days and see or go to .5 U. What is anyone's thoughts on that? It totally goes against the protocol, but I feel like we are getting no where at the moment so the thought of starting fresh doesn't scare me like it should. She also said we need to start thinking about dental for him.

I hope you are all having a great Saturday!

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

Hi Melissa - Zoe's vet mentioned the same thing to me at one point - like you, I dont know what to think. I know she needs a dental and that might make a huge difference in her insulin requirements. Dental is the next thing for us to do.......probably in July.

What kind of changes did you make in Tarragon's asthma treatment?

Have a great weekend!!!

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

Hi Melissa,

As for dental, does Tarragon have any other conditions (I don't know much about feline asthma) that might preclude him from being a good candidate for anesthesia? (such as CRF?) Sometimes, dental issues can cause an increase in BGs. I don't think it's written anywhere scientific, but historically here in LL, many kitties have needed much lower doses after getting a dental cleaning.

As for starting over with the dose- has Tarragon ever had ketones? Do you have ketodiastix? My very inexpert opinion is that were Tarragon my kitty, I'd be wondering about bumping the dose up to a fat 2.0U.

good luck!
Cyn

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

Tarragon hadn't had any asthma problems since last Sept, prediagnosis of FD, so we weren't treating him with anything. A couple of weeks ago he started in with the cough since our ceiling fans are now on. We took him in, they did a breathing treatment and put him on flovent. Last night and all morning, he was coughing and couldn't get his breathe so we went in for another breathing treatment. She is putting him on singulair to see if that will help.

The dental is going to have to wait until July or Aug, but that will definitely be next on the list. He shouldn't have any problem with the anesthesia. He has never tested positive for ketones and I do have some on hand. I test him when he gets really high or really low and it has always been good.

I was already thinking about giving him a dose increase depending on what today showed. Now that he has hit a 99 at +8 I'm not so sure. Especially since that was right when we got home from the vet and he is usually about 100 higher from a vet visit. We will see what +10 brings.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

not an expert either, but if tarragon were mine, i'd also be increasing the dose by .25. are you able to get any numbers closer to +5-+7 during the week, either during the day or at night?

and if you can afford the dental and the asthma doesn't prevent it, that would probably be a good thing to do.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

If I forget to ask - please let me know how the singular works for Tarragon.....I'm always interested in treatments for Feline Asthma.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

My guess is that your vet thinks Tarragon is experiencing chronic Somogyi rebound. The problem is that there is very limited research to support this phenomenon and no research documenting it's existence with long acting (e.g., Lantus) insulin in cats. The original research was done on humans in 1938. Since then, no one has been able to reliably replicate the findings. At best, the existence of Somogyi is controversial. Vets deal with this by stopping or reducing insulin.

Given the green today, I'd wait to see what the numbers closer to PMPS look like before increasing Tarragon's dose. If he's not much lower than the 99, I'd thnik about increasing.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

Melissa: I'm glad to see Tarragon's numbers coming down. Sending him healing vines for the asthma...POOR BOY!! I bet it scared you both.

I saw a vet who told me the EXACT same thing about Gracie but also threw in the words that I was "killing" her. After some discussion, she then said I should at least take her down to .5u. I didn't do it then but
a little later, Gracie earned reductions to .5u (in fact, she has done it three times) and she didn't do a darn thing on it....high numbers the whole time. I think vets always go for the "Somogyi" smoking gun.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +2/334 +4/194 +6/149 +8/99 Thou

Thanks everyone. That makes me feel much better. I was not planning on cutting out the insulin, but they scare the carp out of you and make you think you are killing your baby.

Just when all that is said, we have had an eventful couple of hours.
+9.5/55
+9.75/51
+10/47
+10.25/53
+10.5/67
+10.75/82
+11/101

I rode it out and didn't give him any food wanting to see what that break point was. He actually earned a reduction. However, I am thinking about keeping him at 2. Any thoughts on that? I know if I don't give him the reduction when he earns it, I can't go back and give it to him until he earns it again. However, i was so close to increasing that I'm not sure if decreasing is the way to go.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +8/99 +9/72 +9.5/55 +10/47 +10.5

That's an interesting number that late in the cycle. Looks like he has been holding his reductions. I can see why you are hesitant to give one....about 11 days on this dose and his first green. 47 is close to 50 with meter variance :lol: :lol:
Your call but you are correct; if you do not take this reduction, you lose it. And you will need to be extra vigilant because now you know what he can do on this dose.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +8/99 +9/72 +9.5/55 +10/47 +10.5

I'm about as confused as I can get right now. He went to the vet between +6 and +8 and I tested his +8 right when we got in the door. He was stressed at the vet, as always so I was expecting a very high number and got that 99.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +8/99 +9/72 +9.5/55 +10/47 +10.5

Maybe he gets "anti vet stress" :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +8/99 +9/72 +9.5/55 +10/47 +10.5

I wish! :lol: He is usually HI on the meter after the vet.

 

Re: 6/25 Tarragon AMPS +371 +8/99 +9/72 +9.5/55 +10/47 +10.5

Hi Melissa.....Sorry to hear that Tarragon is still having breathing difficulties. I know it can take flovent a few weeks to work. I would give Curry a 1 puff of Albuterol to open her airways a bit and then the 2 puffs of Flovent. Have not used Singular. Hope that works for Tarragon.

Also, if he is coughing there might be a little more inflammation which might cause an increase in the glucose as well.


Feel better Tarragon.

 

Some cat's numbers actually drop in response to stress. Go figure!

If you are not going to reduce, there is another option that's noted in the Tilly Protocol:

If you do not want to reduce yet, then you can use the below 50 on 3 occasions option.

 

Thanks Sienne. I went ahead with his normal 2 U tonight. I will go with the 3 times.

 

Hi guys - nice numbers today for Tarragon, and and interesting condo all around. been that route with my vet too...

 

Hey Melissa and Tarragon! I'm sorry the little buddy has had asthma issues....hopefully those get worked out soon. But since the kitties can read and all, Tarragon knew you were contemplating increasing the dose and decided to let you know what he thought about that!

 

Sorry to hear that your little rubber kitty has been bouncing all over the place. I'm glad Sienne jumped in with some rationale b/c I'd be curious to see why your vet would deviate from the protocol.

Hugs to you!

 

The vet is speaking in general terms and doesnt have any patients who do home testing. I know she is just used to dealing with patients who only test every month or so when they bring them in for it. She called last night after coming to this board and we discussed the protocol. She understands where I am coming from and is anxious to try this out.