04/09 Ella PMPS 374 +2 331

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by tpr, Apr 9, 2012.

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  1. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Here is the condo from yesterday.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68223

    We increased Ella's dose to 1.25 this evening and she is continuing to drop in the low blues. She was very hungry for food at +9.5 and I gave her half of an 1/8.
    I know I'm not supposed to feed her so close to the next shot but she was relentless and seemed nervous so I fed her. If the numbers are in the blues in the morning do I still shoot her at 1.25?
    I haven't slept a wink and will probably have to be up all day doing bg's as well. I absolutely can't stay up like this tomorrow evening as I have a very importnat meeting on Tuesday. Please help!
     
  2. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    stalling until there are more people on the board.
     
  3. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    I am here. My alarm just went off and I have to test shoot and feed. I'll be right back.
     
  4. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    Just tested and she's 120! She keeps going lower and lower and she wants food.
     
  5. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    Okay, I just looked at your spreadsheet. Since this is the lowest you've ever shot, I would do a BCS (one time reduced shot) because of the dropping numbers to 1.00 unit, just for this morning and then go ahead and feed her after the shoot. She will come up once you feed her, and the Lantus dose you are going to shoot now, will not start to have an effect until 2 hours from now. Questions before you shoot, are you going to be home today to monitor her, and do you have plenty of strips and food, both LC and HC?
     
  6. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    I have strips, LC but the HC I have is only 12%
    I am home today.
    I always feed before I shoot...is it best to do it the other way?

    Also I thought I shouldn't be shooting in a number that is decreasing?
     
  7. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    another thing to take into consideration is that I fed her half an 1/8 at 9.5. Maybe her true bg reading is lower?

    Thanks for being with me:)
     
  8. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    You can keeping stalling and waiting for a higher number if you want.

    You have three choices:
    1. You can shoot a reduced dose
    2. You can stall and wait for a rising number and then shoot the full dose
    3. You can skip the shot.

    I would do the first, but it's up to you.

    I will find some links for you to read about shooting low numbers.
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46005
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46003#p493398
     
  9. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    Thank you!

    if i take her bg again and she's dropping do i still give the reduced dose or wait?
     
  10. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    I have to log off to take a quick shower. I'll be back. It's good that she's hungry. She will come up after she eats.
     
  11. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    ok thanks!

    this is my last day off for monitoring so that's one of the reasons we were increasing the dose. i find this very stressful!
     
  12. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    I know it's stressful. The reason I said it was okay to shoot is because you will be around, for her, if she needs you, today. She isn't dropping that much, it is a very slow drop. If she was 250 and then 200 and then 150 and then 100, it would be a different story, but she is in a nice surf right now, it's just slowly going down. Have you shot, or tested again?
     
  13. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    yes I shot 1u and the last test was the same as pmps.
    i am exhausted as i haven't slept all night. i don't think i'm prepared to raise doses unless i'm going to be home to monitor and i def can be pulling all nighters before work all the time. she seems pretty happy right now. i should probably sleep but am afraid to.
     
  14. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    many thanks for your support this morning:)
     
  15. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    If she is still 120, and she ate some food, you can set an alarm and get an hour's sleep. That's what I do, when I have to monitor carefully, is set alarms, and sleep in segments.
    Good job shooting. I'm sure she'll be fine. Just remember that whatever time you shot this morning, your next shot will be 12 hours from then...unless she gets high numbers (like 300 or more), then you can shoot a little earlier. I would do a +11 this evening and see how she is doing. Post that number and ask for advice, if you want to shoot early tonight.

    Best of luck and have a good day.
     
  16. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    will try and catch so zzzz's but am a bit anxious....
    i'll feed her the rest of her breakfast in an hour

    Have a good day!
     
  17. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella (dosing advice in 1.5 hours)

    she was acutally 118 at 6:30am...but that could be a meter variance.
     
  18. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)

    not sure if this tidbit of info will help but Ella's glucose was 113 before her pancreatitis. Blood work was taken at the vet 3 weeks prior to the attack.
     
  19. worldtraveller

    worldtraveller Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)

    Hi Tamara!
    I can understand how nerve wrecking it is to shoot to a low number the first time! I think you made the right decision to shoot a lower dose since you are home monitoring her. Once you have done this a few times it will be less stressful!

    The very first time when Kitty had a low PS number (around 100) I actually skipped the shot, and there was no drama (=no steep hike) with Kitty's BGs even after that. The second the of the low PS number (92), I skipped again and even skipped the next morning and still Kitty's BG was "only" in 200's after 36 hours without insulin (this was just when we started the wet food diet)...

    Eventually I got quite "easy" about the low numbers that I actually ended up shooting the usual dose even though Kitty had earned a reduction the night before. Then his BG dropped to 32 at +1.5. (see Kitty's SS on March 18th) What happened then was that Kitty started to eat frantically. He had LC food + I also gave 4-5 spoons of HC food. There was no drama at all in the situation and I kept closely monitoring him until he was again in 70's at +3.5. Kitty himself was really cool - after eating he was just resting and sleeping. Luckily no hypo signs.

    You're doing all the right things and will be getting good support here at LL! perhaps her lower than usual BG is now a result of the new diet if she is sensitive to carbs. I keep my fingers crossed for you and Ella!
     
  20. worldtraveller

    worldtraveller Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)

    Just thought to copy one of my earlier posts on Kitty's story when he started on wet food only:

     
  21. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Thanks for the support and encouragment Mia!
    I've read your post about how kitty got OTJ and it's very inspriring!
    My biggest worry is not being home is she starts going hypo.

    I feel very lucky to have the support of everyone here:)
     
  22. worldtraveller

    worldtraveller Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    I remember how worried I was also if Kitty was going hypo when I was not at home. I chose the safe path and always reduced the dose or skipped completely if he had a low reading (well, except once :oops: ). Kitty is also free fed, meaning that I give 1-1,5 cans of Gourmet Gold (=Fancy Feast in the US) both in the morning and evening and he then eats when he wants. He's very good pacing the food through out the day.

    If you are at home and can monitor Ella, then handling the low numbers should be fine. It is important for you to get enough experience on Ella's curve and nadirs now after the new diet. You are doing just great! I hope that one day Ella's new diet will be enough to control her diabetes ;-)
     
  23. Laurie and Mr Tinkles

    Laurie and Mr Tinkles Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Good morning Tamara!

    I'm glad Dyana was here to help you this morning. :D

    Breathe....remember that these are good numbers, this is what you want to see! Also remember that you are in control with the food and your meter. Ella came down nice and easy, and you did fine with it. I would take a look at the links Dyana posted, and print them out. Familiarize yourself with how to handle low numbers, it helps when you know what to do ahead of time.

    It's great that Ella came down when you are able to be home to monitor her! Whenever you get your lowest PS ever (or a low PS) you should start out with a +1 and +2. I'll be watching for the +2.
     
  24. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    I hope the new diet will help control her as well:)
    There was a time, when we only had two cats, that Ella could free feed. She paced herself really well but now that we have four munchkins I can't leave the food out or they will eat her portion.

    I can't believe I'm still able to put sentences together. Thank goodness I'm not working today!
     
  25. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Hi Laurie,

    I'm very lucky that Dyana was available to help me this morning:) There didn't seem to be many people on the board at 5:45am and even though I've read the notes on how to shoot low I feel like I am not comfortable to make those decisions solely on my own right now. Obviously, there will be many times when I will need to do this and it's my responsibility to figure out how to keep Ella safe but I still feel really green. Over the last few weeks people have told me that they've been using lantus for a really long time and are still learing about it... so I know have a ways to go.

    Ella +2 196

    I'm going to try and catch a few zzzzz's. Will post back later.
     
  26. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    one thing that i'm wondering about is how quickly the food is working in her body. are her higher numbers at +1,+2 a result of the insulin wearing off or the carbs?

    also, looking at her data, is it safe to say that her nadir is between +8 and +9...although she kept getting lower until amps this morning so it's all quite confusing to me.
     
  27. Laurie and Mr Tinkles

    Laurie and Mr Tinkles Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2010
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    I saw the +2, sorry...I got called away before I could post. It's always best to get help the first few times you have a low preshot....it's much easier when someone walks you through it! I wasn't saying you should do it on your own....just to get familiar with the information. Dyana is usually on early in the morning, she knows what to do....we are fortunate that she is around to help the early morning folks (thanks Dyana!) However, if no one is on the board to help you, that info is important to have to help you decide what to do.

    The higher numbers at +1 and+2 may be a food spike, or it may be the start of a bounce from the lovely blue numbers....her body isn't used to those numbers, so it would not surprise me to see her bounce. Let's see where she goes from here....can you get a +4 +3? (Sorry, meant +3!)

    I don't think her nadir is that clear yet....the numbers sliding down toward the end of the cycle may have been due to the dose increase. When things change (the food, the dose) it takes time for the changes to settle in....but some cats do react on the first cycle to an increase.
     
  28. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    G'morning Tamara.

    I'm going to be the outlier here. Since you are home, I'd have encouraged you to shoot your regular dose. Here are my thoughts on why. When you're shooting, you're not shooting the number you're seeing. (I know, that sounds weird.) Lantus takes about 2 hours to start working. So, the number you're actually looking at, is where Ella will be in 2 hrs. On top of that, you'll be feeding which, as you're seeing, has an effect on numbers. Finally, in some cases, a dose reduction doesn't have an effect in the current cycle -- it can be delayed until the next cycle since the shed may make up the difference. You'll have a better sense of that today. All of this information is discussed in greater detail in Libby's post that was included in Dyana's links.

    I'm also going to hazard a guess here. This is the first time that you're seeing a run of blue numbers. My hunch is that Ella is going to bounce. While I'm guessing this to be the case, it's a somewhat educated guess and as such, it would have been fine to shoot the full dose. (And the only way to know, though. is by 20/20 hindsight.)

    I also want to encourage you to not become sleep deprived! I'm certainly guilty of staying up late testing and it's always gratifying to see good numbers. I'd encourage you to pace yourself. Once you saw the cycle level off, I think it would have been safe for you to get some sleep.
     
  29. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    hello everyone,

    I just woke up to get the +4 and as such couldn't get the +3.
    +4 320

    Thanks for your responses. I am definitely sleep deprived and trying to take in all of the information. Sienne, your hunch was correct. She is bouncing from the blues. The only reason I stayed up last night is because I didn't know how low she was going to go. I could see that she was headed down gradually but it was my first time seeing her do this that I thought she might pop into the greens. At the time I didn't know the cycle was going to level off...that's how green I am :D

    Do I have enough data to know where she'll be in two hours? If you could guess from what she gave us last night, what would you think?

    Her poor ears are feeling delicate today and since she's in the pinks I'd rather not go crazy on her. Are there specific tests that I should do today?

    Laurie, I know you didn't intend for me to shoot on my own and I'm SO grateful that Dyana was there for me :D

    So where do we go from here?
     
  30. PeterDevonMocha

    PeterDevonMocha Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Hi guys .. no advice from me, so I'm glad others were able to help you out this morning .. I just wanted to give support and to tell you, you are doing great! I know it's stressful and making decisions like this can be very hard .. and do I remember the days of being to scared to sleep! But you'll learn .. like suggested above, set an alarm and grab a nap for 20 minutes or a half hour .. it will get easier!
     
  31. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Thanks your kind words PDM!!!
    I'm definitely used to hearing the alarms. Unfortunately, intermittent sleep makes me feel a bit like a zombie but I'll do what it takes to help her feel more comfortable. She's def not feeling great at the moment:(
     
  32. Laurie and Mr Tinkles

    Laurie and Mr Tinkles Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    That sure looks like a bounce. If I were you, I would go back to bed, catch up on sleep. How about a test somewhere between +7-+9 (if you are awake) and then get a +11, as Dyana suggested...you don't have a lot of +11s, and that's useful data.

    I'll peek in later.....FWIW, I think you did just fine getting the tests. I probably wouldn't have tested so often, but it's easy for someone with experience to not worry so much. ;-) You are gathering data and that will help your comfort level as you move forward.
     
  33. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Hi Laurie,

    I will test somewhere between 7-9 as well as +11.
    She's sleeping a lot today. I missed her in the litter box but put the stick in the urine ball she made. It showed high glucose and neg ketones (I know this may not be accurate but it did show high glucose which is true so I'm assuming it worked)
    Her breathing rate is a bit quicker than normal. Should we be worried about ketones in a bounce?
     
  34. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Also, it would be helpful to know what is considered to be levelling off. I'm assuming gradual decreases should not be a concern?
     
  35. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Well-Known Member

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    Mar 9, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Looks like you've had an exciting night/morning! What a difference the 0.25 unit makes huh?

    Nice to see Ella cruising the Blues! This is good! I know its a bit scary at first, but the blues and greens are where you and Ella want to be :mrgreen:

    You are doing a great job! Hopefully you can catch some ZZzzzzzzzzz's today!

    Tanya
     
  36. Pip & Rupert

    Pip & Rupert Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    wow, Nice job!!! Ella is on a mission and making sure you don't get any sleep is part of it! I'm just getting used to the blue and green numbers and learning not to panic too much! It's really difficult isn't it? and the cats just sit there and look at you with that 'what the heck is YOUR problem?' look on their face.... Well done! glad it alll worked out well for you.
     
  37. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    this question is off topic but marjorie told me that if Ella was hungry I could give her boiled chicken as a snack it doesn't have carbs. I've never done this for a cat. Do I just boil in plain water?
     
  38. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    You are doing a great job with Ella. It really shows what a difference diet can make.

    I haven't boiled chicken before, but I you don't need to add any flavours so just poaching/boiling should be OK. I use Purebites freeze dried chicken treats which you can get in a lot of the pet stores. Get the ones from the dog section as they are larger and more economical and it's the same thing. Each poke gets a treat and for some reason the other cat thinks he deserves one too!

    Have a good sleep.
     
  39. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Thanks Wendy! Unfortunately she didn't take it, even when I put a tinge of her fav wet on it.
     
  40. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335

    nearly +8 and she is at 335. She's so hungry...poor girl and wouldn't go near the boiled chicken:(
    can i give her a wee snack at +9?
     
  41. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176

    Boiling or steaming chicken is easy -- it's like making chicken soup. The easiest/quickest way to do this is to put some water in a microwavable container cook it in there. Alternatively, just simmer a chicken breast in water. (Unlike with chicken soup, don't add any veggies.)
    Looking at last night, your PMPS to +3 was flat. Your +4, though, was a big drop. The drop continued to around +7. While the numbers were still decreasing, there wasn't the same amount of momentum. In fact, the blues, certainly from +8 on, were pretty flat. I would say that if you are seeing changes that are within 10 - 20%, I wouldn't worry too much unless you are in low numbers.

    I wish I could say that there is a "rule" as to what to look for in order to make this kind of determination. The reality is that it's an ECID (every cat is different) situation. The more data you have, the more you'll be able to see Ella's patterns. This was the first time you were seeing a largely blue cycle so getting the data you were able to get gives you a good baseline. The next time, you may have a better idea of what to expect.

    I don't know if you have enough data yet with respect to Ella and her being in the lower range of numbers. It's a process and you're making a good start.
     
  42. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts around levelling off with me. Hopefully it will put my mind at ease next time I am marathon testing.
    I shot at 6:40am this morning but would like to move the shot time back a bit so I have some breathing room tomorrow. Can I move it to 6:25 on the 15 minute rule?
    I don't think I can do half hour as I was25 minutes late in giving the shot this morning.
     
  43. Laurie and Mr Tinkles

    Laurie and Mr Tinkles Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335

    I think you can move by 15 minutes tonight and then the rest of the time tomorrow morning to get back on schedule, or you could move the 25 minutes all at once if you wanted to, especially if she's still high at PMPS. One question...you are still testing and feeding, then shooting 15 minutes later, right? If she is consistently eating the wet food, I don't think you need to wait to make sure she is going to eat, so you could shoot right after testing...I used to shoot while Mr Tinkles was eating.

    What do you use for testing treats? She won't eat freeze dried chicken?
     
  44. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335

    +11 432

    I will move tonights dose to 6:20 and then to 6:05am. I feel more comfortable making sure she has a good meal down before shooting as I don't have the capability to come home during the day or have someone check on her. I need to feel super comfortable knwoing that she is in a safe place when I leave. I'm wondering if people think we don't have enough data to know when she nadirs and or don't quite understand her patterns then perhaps 1.25u is too high to safely dose without supervision. Perhaps a fat 1?

    I don't know but I def don't want to be in panic mode all day at work. It's not good for my health.

    Please advise as to what dose would be good for her this evening.

    Thanks!
    ps. I gave an 1/8 of wet @ +9
     
  45. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335+11

    Tamara

    Wow...an exciting day!!!! Great numbers! You did a wonderful job. I'm so glad Dyana was there for you and Laurie, too. Lots of wisdom and experience with those two ladies.

    I also agree with Sienne on shooting today....I would have given a full dose on time but the basic thing is you have to be comfortable with what you are doing and if you were not comfortable doing that (and I think
    Dyana sensed that), then you do what you are comfortable doing. So I think she steered you down the right path for your comfort. But normally, if we stall, you want to shoot the full dose.

    I would shoot the 1.25u again until she earns the reduction. If you are doing the SLGS still, then reduce her when she gets below 90. Normally on TR, we'd let them earn a reduction when they go below 50. She may
    earn that reduction when she clears this bounce and since we haven't seen alot of bounce from her yet, we don't know if she'll clear it quickly or not. Bounces "can" take up to six cycles to clear so don't get worried
    if she doesn't clear right away. I'll be up and on tonight to see what she does so don't worry about being alone.

    I'm a strong believer in +2 tests and I always got them on Gracie when she was on lantus even if she was high because you never know when they might decide to clear that bounce. If she's near or higher than her AMPS at the +2 test,
    then I'd just get a before bed and call it a night.

    This is all great. :D :D
     
  46. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335+11

    Hi Marjorie,

    Thanks for your post! None of us know for sure if 1.25u would have been safe to be given today as we didn't do it. There is no way that I can stay home tomorrow so I want to be confident that she will be ok on 1.25u. Do we think that...how certain can we be?
    Should we be increasing her dose on a rebound?

    I apologize for what may be perceived as difficult but I really want to be safe :D I also can't be up testing all night...I'm a wreck over here :sad:
     
  47. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella AMPS 118 (reduced dose to 1u)+1 176 +8 335+11

    so pmps..she is now 374 and that is quite the drop with 45 minutes. Are we sure about the 1.25?
     
  48. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Hi. I have not read all of the rest of your condo, today, but I did scan through it at lunchtime.
    The BCS dose this morning, was because you had never shot this low before. I think you are perfectly fine to shoot the regular dose of 1.25 tonight. Go for it.
     
  49. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

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    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    even if she has dropped in the last 45?
    the reulgar dose of 1.25 was a brand new one last night!
     
  50. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    I think she's high enough to give the regular dose. I'm sorry, if I'm being kind of vague. I really do feel for you. I have been there, and still feel the way you must now, at times. You kitty may have a late nadir. With a 374, I would shoot.
     
  51. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    It's fine to shoot the full 1.25u. The 374 is within the 20% of meter variance.
     
  52. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Remember, that you are going to feed her when you shoot, and the food will affect her BGs,
    and the Lantus dose will not have it's onset until about 2 hours from now.
     
  53. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    ok so i shot the 1.25u...i'm hoping that's what you meant.
     
  54. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Great. I'm guessing you were talking to me :oops: I would feed her, and then get a +2 to start off with this evening.
     
  55. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Thanks ladies! I'm on edge over here. I shot at the same time I did this morning so I guess I can only shoot at 6:25am tomorrow?!

    I stalled because I wanted eveyone to see the drop from +11 to PMPS.

    Dyana, Thanks again for your dosing advice this morning.
    I apologize if it seems like I'm doubting anyone...I'm just nervous. Today was the last day of my holidays and we don't fully know how Ella will react so leaving the house tomorrow will probably be stressful for me.

    I want to thank EVERYONE who came to my condo to give me advice and moral support over this very important weekend. Ella is now lapping up her wet food and the numbers she's presenting with are similar and even better than when she was on dry and 3 u's. She even seems happier, playful and more loving:)

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
     
  56. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Dyana!!!! I was just confused when you said regular dose...cause the 1.25 was new to me! In my mind, the regular dose was 1u cause that's what she was on for most of the weekend!
    You meant 1.25 u right?

    I'm the one that should be :oops:
     
  57. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Yes, 1.25 is the new regular dose, and the 1.00 this morning what what we call a BCS (one time temporarily reduced dose).
    I will be here for you in the morning. I usually log on around 5:30 to 5:45am EST.
    I'm sorry if I forget, so please remind me, do you have other cats in the house?
    I have two cats, and when I am nervous, I leave out extra food, for just in case.
    And, if I'm really nervous, then I will leave out some higher carb food, for the day.
    Do you have an automatic feeder, and/or do you freeze some food to let thaw out during the day for lunch time for Ella?
     
  58. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    We have four cats so I can't leave out food but i can isolate in the bedroom.
    I don't have an auto feeder but i heard that i can just leave food out with an ice cube!?
    I will make sure I log on when your there but my shooting time will be 6:20 so do I just give you my +11?
     
  59. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Yes, your +11 will be good.
    I have been doing this a long time, but I still try to get a +11 or so, to compare to my +12, so I (think I) know how the cycle will go for the day, when I am going to be at work all day long and not around to monitor.
     
  60. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    Tamara....

    Good job! I'm glad Dyana and Sienne were here to help you. I'm working from home and was on a conference call. I'll check in for your +2 in case they need to get to bed. We'll just keep shuffling you back and forth :lol: But we're all on the same page and discuss things when we need to so don't worry.

    I know you are frightened about leaving Ella tomorrow. Let's just take it a cycle at a time and see what she needs. It's good that you can isolate her with food there for her.

    You're doing great. Take a deep breath and try to relax until the +2.
     
  61. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 (big drop in 45 minutes) pls read!

    thanks!

    quick question: i did her pmps bg at 6:15 but didn't shoot until 6:40...is my pmps still 6:15pm?
     
  62. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Tamara

    Sorry...gee..where did the time go!

    Do you mean you tested at 6:15 but didnt shoot until 6:40 without retesting ? If that is the case, I would put your PMPS as 6:40 since that's when you shot.

    Can you do a +4 or will you be in bed?
     
  63. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    well i was planning on going to bed by 10:40pm but i can set an alarm.
    I'm planning on moving my shot time to 6:25 tomorrow using the 15 minute change in dosing rule. I usaully feed 10-15 minutes after the bg reading so I'll be testing at 6:10am. Does that mean that my +11 is at 5:10am?
    Just want to be sure i have the right data for Dyana
     
  64. mybuddybinks

    mybuddybinks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    WOW...You and Ella are doing wonderfully!! :D :D :D

    celi & binks

    [​IMG]
     
  65. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Hi Tamara,
    Sorry to take so long to drop by Ella's condo today. You did fine and I know that all will be OK tomorrow when you go back to work.

    Most of us test, feed, and shoot within 10 minutes or so. It is helpful to give the shot while the kitty is eating. Her head will be in her bowl and the food will occupy her. With the numbers you have been seeing, I would not be too concerned about Ella dropping too fast or too far. Dyana already mentioned that at AMPS you are not shooting the bg number you just recorded, you are anticipating where Ella's bgs will be in about 2 hours, because the insulin you shoot at AMPS will not begin to kick in until after +2. Generally you will see a rise in bg at +1 (the influence of the food combined with the fact that the insulin has not yet kicked in). Your +2 number should, in an "optimal" cycle, be about the same as AMPS. If it is lower, leave out some MC food as part of the food you leave for her. Get an "out the door" test and try not to worry. :smile:

    I know that it is scary, but you have learned a lot about Ella this long weekend and it will be OK.

    Get a good night's sleep. You've earned it!

    Ella & Rusty
     
  66. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Thanks for your moral support and advice Ella!
    What is MC food?

    Thanks for the hip hip hooray celi and binks!
     
  67. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Tamara:

    Ella is right....it's better to test/feed/shoot pretty close together. Any reason to test so much earlier than the rest of the process? The "+" times are the times lapsed since the last shot. It's confusing when you are making up for stalled time because, since you shot at 6:40 tonight, normally the +11 would be 5:40 tomorrow morning. In this case, I'd just call your +11 an hour before you shoot.

    MC is medium carb food which is in the 10-15% range of calories from carbs.

    See how much you're learning? :D :D
     
  68. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Re: 04/09 Ella PMPS 374 +2 331 +4 353

    +4= 353

    she ate at +1,+2,+3

    ni ni~
     
  69. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    NIght, Tamara!!!!! She just wants a bouncey bounce tonight.
     
  70. tpr

    tpr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    I let her eat her whole meal before shooting to ensure her belly is full...makes me feel better about her leaving.
     
  71. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    tamara, i'm just getting on today, but i want to say you're doing great. all of us were nervous at the beginning. it's ok.

    so tomorrow when you get up, you might consider if you're going to feel better leaving her in a bedroom with a spare litter box and some food she can graze on. you don't have to, but we know you've got the 3 other cats and can't leave food our for her.

    just consider which way are you going to be able to be sane at work?
     
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