01/05 Basil AMPS=95 +4=97 +7:45=104 +10=108

WCR: Lots of wailing (he LOVES to wail and howl) and playing during the night. He still sleeps--or rests from the exhaustion of sleeping--most of the day, but he plays a bit if you offer a toy and has all but stopped cruising the kitchen counters for food.

Something I would like to understand: When a kitty has nice solid numbers at a given dose, do you stay with that dose until BGs keep trying to go too low, or do you try a small reduction and see if the pancreas can learn to adjust to that? I have read a lot here, but I don't recall reading about that. Of course, my brain is rather full right now and it may have gone in but slipped out.

Have a purry day, everyone.

Yesterday's Condo

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

Great question!! And one I was going to ask this morning. Will check back to find out the answer.

Basil's numbers sure look good

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

HOLD THE DOSE!!! Unless the cat is running very high or very low-
No testing the pancreas !! Your cat is doing GREAT--Why mess with success??
It took me 2 yrs for Moonie to have an almost all green day!
Linda, you are forgetting our basic principles--Patience and consistancy!!
If you are asking because you are looking toward OTJ, I understand..But when it's time Basil will show you--OK?
You are doing great!
Basil is on 2.25U..What we do is work the cat down, using it's lowering numbers..Check Libby & Lucy's SS OK?

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

Well, hruummphh! I object!

I'm not forgetting patience or consistency. I just want to know. I keep hearing that Basil will show me, but I need to know what I am looking for!

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

The green numbers are the healing numbers, the longer Basil is in the green, the stronger the pancreas will get. Don't wanna rush anything and lose any of the great progress made! Basil will let you know when to dosecrease.

and this amps is a nice start! :smile:

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

I just have been looking at Lucy's ss and I still am not at all sure I understand what I am looking for. I see dosage lowering after just a few days with blues and greens.

I think you just have a typo, BTW, Roni but Basil is on 1.25U and has been for 22 cycles. I'm not complaining or lobbying. I just want to understand what the big picture is. What am I looking to see? In particular, I understand that most kitties who go into remission do so shortly after diagnosis. I want to stay on top of things, but need to know what I'm watching for!

Thanks for the help!

Fleapunk--simulpost. Thanks for joining in, but HOW will be let me know? (If ony he could just say, "OK. Ready to move down a notch.) :lol:

ETA: Oh, and if he is holding nice steady numbers, will he suddenly start going lower if his pancreas begins to contribute a little more to the process?

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

I wonder about all this too. Last year Fluffy suddenly went OTJ because someone told me he was ready to go OTJ (altho I had recently changed his food from dry to wet). His dose was not decreased before going OTJ. One day I just stopped giving him insulin and he was fine.

14 months later he is back on insulin and I am obviously hoping this is a quick stint.

Sorry to hijack your condo!!

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

Ugh, I sure can't comment as Shadoe is still going up in dose and she has still not had a single green!

All those green numbers look amazing! Basil's doing incredible. Keep it up Basil!

I sort of have a handle on how things work when you are going up in doses, but down ... that freaks me out because if I had nice green numbers on a dose I would sure not want to rush any decreases for fear of what would happen!

I should watch more careful on posts of kitties down in those nice greens; maybe there are other criteria relating to tests that are below 50 or something, but I really don't have a clue. Frankly the thought of such low numbers terrify me!

I just thought of all the times I get meds from the dr. They always say to you to take them all and don't stop just cuz you're feeling better. Stop too soon and the sick comes back.

Hopefully someone will come along and say a bit about the criteria for decreasing doses and by how much. I, for one, would be interested to know.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

Sorry for offending & misread...'Im not as young as I used to be...
Each time Basil reaches a bg in the 50's, a dose decrease would be indicated because he is a new bie...The dose is decreased by 0.25U in most cases, and we work down from there--So, Every cat is different and gets these decreases as their pancreas heals. Some cats do go into remission. We did not..But Moonie is happy & healthy..That's my main concern. Not many cats go OTJ quickly..It happens, but when it doesnt, the dosecrease need to be earned over time...
If a cat suddenly loses the need for insulin, the only place it would show is in the bgs..
If a cat goes off insulin too soon, it will be back here..That's the reason for the slow decreases.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

He'll let you know when he throws you a 38 by +2. :mrgreen: Seriously.....look at Basil's ss....see how the color scheme has gone from mostly pinks/yellows then mostly blue with smatterings of green, now he's mostly green with a smattering of blue. The mostly green means his pancreas is doing better by holding the lower numbers on this dose. He's doing great. :smile:

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

I'm not really offended, and I'm not even as young as you used to be, so no need to explain misreading. (I own approximately 72 pair of reading glasses.) I just didn't want someone else reading the thread and thinking he was up at 2.25.

I am/was just puzzled by all this, which is to be expected given my experience versus yours and that of many of the people here. What you said is helping me get it, though.

When you say a 50, do you mean as a PS value or a nadir value? Basil had one 51 and then returned to his more jolly 70s and 90s. LOL So I assume I am looking for 50s in more than one cycle?

We're ready to wait as long as it takes. Just getting ready.

Gayle, we were terrified too at first when we saw the greens. Then we realized--hey, that's what we're aiming for! Funny, isn't it?

Thanks, everyone!

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

Beautiful AMPS for Basil today... Yay!!!
Does your schedule permit a +4 and/or +6 checks either in the AM or PM? Those hours will show drops if his pancreas is
starting to function...and doescreases are given if the kitty goes under 50. Gradually, you work down the dose scale by .25u increments as was said previously....we see if the numbers stay steady with the doscrease and wait for the next under 50 BG to get the next dosecrease.. Mid-cycle tests are so important for that reason....Basil is doing very, very well!! Keep up the great work!!

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

No solid answer, but great question and love reading the answers (helps us all learn :smile: )

I believe Jackie's last answer is the one I remember seeing happen with other kitties. Low number early in the cycle and time for dosecrease.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

We can do both in the am, and comfortably do a +4 in the pm. But there are three adults here and if we need a +6PM, we'll arrange it.

Keeping in mind that Basil is getting a little grumpy about being bothered with the procedure, which would be most beneficial:

AM+6 and PM+4
AM+4 and AM +6
PM+4 and PM+6

Or are you thinking that having all four for one day would be a really good thing?

Pencils down! Quiz is over. Hand in your papers. :lol:

 

Re: 01/05 Basil +4=97

Got the AM+4.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil +4=97

surfin'.... :mrgreen:

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

I'm sorry Lydia...I am a testing freak...so I say YES to all of the above...LOLOLOL.
but I know that it isn't always practical...and I realize that it's difficult to gauge sometimes where the nadir is on some
kitties. But, if you test at +4 and +6, you will see the pattern maybe....(you will faint if you see Shadow's SS I guess. I need an intravenous hookup... :shock: ) I have found that he begins to drop at +6 and reaches nadir some days at +8.

If it's any consolation, Shadow is a perfect specimen when it comes to getting the frequent tests. Raja who is OTJ for over a month now is a real pain. Her ear no longer bleeds the way it used to and sometimes I have to chase her around in order to give her a surprise test! She really acts insulted if I try to test her, so if they are feeling better, it's my thought that they don't want to play this game anymore....KWIM? Basil is obviously feeling better so YOU should not be bothered anymore...as far as HE is concerned...

It's all about tracking the numbers...more data=more understanding. Get frequent tests during any cycle and you will see the waves -- the rises and peaks in the cycle and how the insulin is working. All this so you won't need it anymore! :mrgreen:

 

Re: 01/05 Basil AMPS=95

"I just have been looking at Lucy's ss and I still am not at all sure I understand what I am looking for. I see dosage lowering after just a few days with blues and greens."

Newly diagnosed kitties get a dose reduction if the BG falls below 50. Older diabetic kitties get a dose reduction if the BG falls below 40. Jill posted this a few weeks ago.

In looking at Lucy's SS you will see the dose reductions did not always hold and the dose had to be increased again. And yes, some newly diagnosed kitties go OTJ rather quickly. Lucy was diabetic for 19 months before she went OTJ. There is no hard fast rule. Good luck, get as many spot checks as you can and you will begin to understand what the numbers are saying. I have always been told a before bed check is very important.

They (the sugarcats) all have their own schedule. Basil will let you know when he is ready. Hope this helps.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil +7:45=104 +10=108

Posting two new results at once.

I came home after being out a couple of hours to find cat vomit and both cats hanging around the kitchen as if to say feed me now, dope. Alas, the way I found the vomit was through the sounds of the dog eating it. ohmygod_smile
I immediately tested Basil and he was at 128, so I don't think he was the vomiter. Although yesterday, he did seem to be having a hairball irritation.

Who knows? Not me, AND THE KATZ AIN'T SAYIN.

 

Re: 01/05 Basil PMPS=102

Basil was very hungry tonight so I fed him a little extra, not sure if he was the vomit kitty or not.

 

There is another answer to your question that might be more what you're looking for. There are actually TWO basic ways to earn a dose reduction. One is to go under 50 (nadir or preshot doesn't matter, any time during the cycle). The other way is seen more commonly when a cat is on a very small dose and almost ready to to OTJ, but sometimes we're able to use it in other cases too.

from http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

"When the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a healthy cat and stays under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week, attempt to reduce the dose."

So once a cat has been in pretty much all green (or a little low blue) for a week, you can try reducing the dose to see if it holds. Some cats can hold this type of decrease, some can't. Like I said, this is usually seen in cats on low doses, but Kathy/Kitty is doing this now from a higher dose, and Bob/Arnie, and I think there are others.

Does that help?

Basil is doing GREAT, I would try to get at least one spot check every night in case he is hitting 40's-50's and we don't know it. We can see from 1/2 that this dose is capable of taking him to that range.

 

That's a really interesting answer, Libby. Thank you very much. In fact, it makes me realize that the link you sent me really is something I should read repeatedly. I've read just about everything here (and elsewhere) multiple times, but I think when you are new, some stuff doesn't stick at all--in particular those items you think just are not "for me." When I came here, my concern was to get Basil into some kind of predictable, decent BG numbers. With the help of the wonderful folks here and the support of my vet, we are now in a new place, where I can afford the luxury of worrying about how far Basil might go--like OTJ!

Thank you all again. I can't say it enough.

 

Interesting SS -- slightly inverted curves. I look forward to seeing where Basil goes. I am not suggesting this is the case with Basil but sometimes an inverted curve could suggest a decrease -- I don't see that with Basil yet, not enough evidence. If it were my kitty I would hold the dose longer, get some night time spot checks and compile more data.