03/01 Frankie AMBG 243; 349 +3

Frankie tested at 238 before food around 7am and 344 after food at 9am. I am still trying to figure our if I should start on insulin, or if the consensus is that she can be diet regulated. I have lantus ready to go, just need some advice.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Dan

Mel(Momma of Muse) will be along shortly to look and on you and give you some help. She has a lot of experience with diabetic cats as she has two right now. Good luck with Frankie.

Terri

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Hi Dan!

First let me say that I am not as experienced as other members, but I will give you my two cents, anyway.

It is hard to say without having any data. I suggest that you run a curve, or at least get food time, AMBG and PMBG, numbers and a +6 to see what Frankie's normal cycle without insulin is like. It is advisable to start with a very low dose and monitor closely for the first few days to see how your cat responds to insulin. The way dosing works, as far as I know, is that you hold a dose for at least 3 days and then adjust upward or downward depending on the nadir (+6, or 6 hours since eating.)

I see you don't have anything on your SS yet. Here are the directions for using the Spreadsheet. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130

But to answer your question, I would not give a shot until you know more about Frankie, and once you have some data on her, start with a very low dose (like 0.25u).

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Cortney is exactly right first we need to see what your girl will do on her own without insulin so we know if she has any function to her pancreas at all. Basically what I have done with all of mine (I adopted mine as untreated diabetics) is I run a curve before starting any insulin...or in simply terms I test them before food, then an hour after they eat, then wait another 2 hours and test again...If they have a sputtering or working pancreas they should spike with food, then the pancreas should kick in, and produce insulin on its own to counter the food and they should drop back down again.

While she is still in what we would consider diabetic numbers she really isn't that high compared to where most of us start out...Maxwell was 485 and Autumn was 528. So with that said I would not give today, but see if she has any of her own insulin production at all and then go from there, if she stays in the mid to high 200s I would start her on .25u and hold that dose for about 3-5 days, then either during that time get a lot of spot checks in or run a full curve on a day off.

I knw you have a lot on your plate right now with babies on the way and a young son so we will try to make this as painless as possible for all concerned.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Where should I continue to post to avoid confusion?

I haven't put in numbers on the SS because we have not started a dose yet. Here are the numbers I have from the past 3 days so far. I have been testing before feeding wet and about 2-3 hours after feeding wet.

02/26 PM: Before Meal 467, after meal 526

02/27 AM: Before Meal 285, After Meal 417; PM: Before Meal 314, After Meal 349 (Not sure how much she ate)

02/28 AM: Before Meal 238, After Meal 344

It is defiantly trending down so maybe we should wait?

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Give her one more day to see where she goes, but if she doesn't drop much lower than she is right now then I would start her on a very low dose of like .25 and hold it. With Lantus it takes about 3 days to fill the shed, basically it builds up time released crystals under the skin, but in the beginning only a few of those melt to bring down the BGs, so you have to find the balance of insulin going in and that which is available for the cat to use to bring down the BGs.

It helps to think of it like filling a funnel, if it isn't enough then the level at the top of the funnel drops, if it is too much the funnel overflows (hypo) but when you hit the right balance the level at the top of the funnel stays consistant, while there is still water flowing out the bottom...Make sense?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Dan, you can post the numbers to the SS even though she's not on insulin yet. When a cat is not on insulin, we say AMBG or PMBG (morning blood glucose and evening blood glucose) as opposed to AMPS or PMPS (morning pre-shot and evening pre-shot.)

You enter the date, and then the AMPS/AMBG value is the time you feed Frankie. +1 is an hour after food, all the way up to +11, which is 11 hours after food. PMPS, or PMBG, should be exactly 12 hours since breakfast. You write the value in the AMPS box, and thus begin record for the new cycle. Lantus is a 12 hour insulin, which is why we shoot twice a day, 12 hours apart. "U", which is the box after AMPS and PMPS refers to the units of insulin shot. If you are not shooting yet, you can just leave this box blank, or write NS (no shot.) We use the +number system because we are all in different time zones and feed at different times. Using +1 (1 hour since food/shot) lets us know that the value entered refers to one hour since breakfast.

For testing and feeding (whether shooting insulin or not) is as follows: Test, Shoot, (or don't shoot) and then Feed.

There is a section on the spreadsheet for remarks, too. In this section, you can write whatever notes you need to. You can take a look at mine, or anyone else's SS in our signatures, to get an idea of how it works. I've added sections for Breakfast and Dinner so I can keep track of what Kismet eats. This is optional

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Yes that makes sense. In the mean time, is the testing schedule I am keeping sufficient? Should I be testing her an hour after she eats and what if I place food and it takes her time to eat it? Should I bee separating her from Mollie when I feed? (I have been feeding them together since last night)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Oh and you can stay over here if you like, we aren't always terribly active throughout the day, but I do try to check in first thing in the morning and then again in the evenings.

The other thing is once you start insulin if you do, is pick a time that you are pretty sure you will be able to give the shots consistantly 12 hours apart, it isn't the end of the world if life happens and you have to shoot early or late but you want a time that works well MOST of the time to have them 12 hours apart.

You don't need to seperate them I feed all 14 of mine together...yes 14! only 2 are diabetic the rest are just plain nuts...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

I forgot to mention that it would be a good idea to change your subject line on your first post. Right now it says "Frankie AMPS 314," but since you are not shooting insulin, you would write AMBG instead. This way, we know Frankie is not currently receiving insulin.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Done :smile:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMPS 314

Right now your testing is simply gathering data so any test you get in whenever is fine, even if you are just sitting around in the evening cuddling with her, slip a test in. Once you start insulin then times become important. Over here we are a little more "relaxed" than the TR group, but in general you will want to always get preshots, a midcycle (somewhere between shots) just to see how they are trending, and a "lights out" or the last test of the day before turning out the lights to go to bed so you know she is safe overnight.

Then when time allows get a curve in to see if her dose needs to go up or down. Lantus is adjusted off the nadir or lowest point in the cycle, with Lantus most cats that is about +6 (6 hours after injection) but some cats nadir earlier and some later.

Now my Autumn's spreadsheet isn't a good example for a Lantus cat since she is on Levemir which while it is similiar it does work slightly different in that it has a later onset and a much later nadir, in Autumn's case usually right before her next shot is do.

The other word from the wise and trust me it is easier said than done in the beginning is don't react to a higher than usual preshot it is just one number, you will base all dose adjustments on the nadir, not the preshots.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Great, did you see my post on explaining how to use the spread sheet? If you can, go ahead and fill it in for the last few days that you've been testing.

Mel suggested that you run a curve. To run a curve, you get a test every 2 hours for one cycle. The cycle you choose doesn't matter, it can be either am or pm, though some cats tend to have lower numbers at night for some reason.

A curve works like this:

AMBG (the time you test right before feeding)
+2 --- two hours after breakfast
+4--- four hours after breakfast
+6--- six hours after breakfast
so on and so forth all the way up to the PMBG.

Lantus is a 12 hour insulin. For most cats, it onsets somewhere between 1-3 hours after the shot. Most cats, thus, are higher at +1/+2 that their pre-shot value because the insulin has not kicked in yet, and eating causes BG to spike. Most cats hit their nadir (the lowest point in their cycle) half way through (usually at +6). This is why we base the dose on the nadir. If your cat is below 50 at +6, she earns a reduction in the dose. That's why it is so important to get mid-cycle spot checks to see how Frankie responds to insulin. While most cats hit their lowest point at +6, every cat is different, and sometimes your kitty can change from day to day. Nadirs can occur anytime between +4 and +8 in some cats. Once you get some more data on Frankie, you will see where she usually drops lowest.

The reason you would want to run a curve before starting insulin is, as Mel pointed out, to see if Frankie's pancreas is working at all by itself. She should naturally follow a similar cycle as cats do on insulin. She should be a little higher just after eating, and then should gradually go down until the nadir, and then after the nadir, slowly go back up.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

SS Updated... Anything missing? How do I keep track of how much food shes eating when I feed them together? They like to try each other's food :lol: Right now I am feeding them 1/2 a can of Friskies Pate (non seafood versions) in the AM and PM. I will be feeding AM at 6, so I guess PM will be 6 as well, (Mollie will not like that as she starts begging around 3:30 and usually I give in around 4:30) but her normal time to eat is 5. I dont function at 5 AM, so 6 is going to have to work.... But it seems that if I start Insulin, I will have to test again in 6 hours, so if I give a shot at 6 pm I have to test at 12AM? I'm dead beat tired at 9, so I guess I'll have to set an alarm.... guess I will be getting my self used to the twin babies schedule sooner than I anticipated :sad:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I will stay up late tonight and run a curve on her. Again, I am needing to shift my focus to work as I haven't gotten anything done today and I am already behind. Thank you everyone, I'll check in periodically and reight before I start the curve (about 5pm MST).

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

In relaxed lantus, you don't have to do a lot of testing in the PM. You would just get the PMBG/PMPS value, and then one more test in before "lights out." It would be a good idea to get the +6 during the am cycle, though, if possible, or somewhere close to it (+4 or +5). If your cat is lower in the early part of the cycle, then you will want to feed her MC or HC (medium carb or high carb) food to get her numbers back up, because if she starts descending too quickly, she may be at risk for hypo. This is only a concern when they are on insulin, though. If you take a look at Kismet's SS, you will see that his BG started dipping early on in the cycle, I fed him to keep his numbers up until the nadir when he would naturally start to climb. As I said, if your cat goes below 50 at any point, then they earn a reduction in dose. Since you're not shooting yet, these are things you don't need to concern yourself with just yet. It's a steep learning curve, but that is why we shoot low and go slow :mrgreen:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Your SS looks great.

Since you're not on insulin yet, running a curve isn't imperative. If you need to get work done and sleep, no worries. Take care of yourself. The weekend is fast approaching, so if that is better for you, then perhaps wait to run your curve until you can. Then we can talk about insulin

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Tonight is actually best for me as my wife is out of town on business and once Jake goes to bed (about 7:30), the house is quite. I need to get caught up on work, so it will be a good time for me to do so.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Well I will tell you how it works at my house..Morning starts at 6:20 am...I stagger out of bed then, take dog out, test Autumn at 6:45am, after bring Sir Bark-a-Lot back in.. Then everyone eats at 7am and while Autumn is eating she gets her insulin. Now I'm home all day so I test at 1pm when everyone but the dog gets lunch, then test again at 6:45 pm feed everyone, give Autumn her insulin, then at 10pm I test one last time, set down frozen food for everyone and toddle off to bed.

Before when I was working away from home I got the am and pm preshots and then ran a full curve on the days off but would try for spot checks before leaving the house and again when I got home. As well as getting that last test before going to bed. The only real time you need the nadir is when looking to adjust the dose, so the rest of the midcycle tests can be when you can catch them just to see how they are trending, and actually sometimes tell you more than always trying for the nadir, like do they drop fast in the beginning and then surf or do they scoot back up quickly after +6 etc.

Now with TR they tend to test a lot and constantly try to catch the nadir but that is because they have a more aggressive protocol than we do here, which is why we start lower and raise slower. Over here we try for regulation first and then if the cat is responding well, then try for remission.

Regulation is considered to be preshots under 250 with a nadir around or below 100 but not lower than 40.
Remission is the cat staying in normal range 40-120 without insulin for 14 days.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Great. And if you can't get every 2 hours, that's okay, just get in as many tests as you can.

As far as keeping track of what Frankie eats, can you feed her separately? Are your kitties free fed (have access to food throughout the day?) One way to manage food intake is to take up the bowl an hour after feeding. Many lantus users don't allow free feeding, and instead, have timed snacks. If you're not around during the day to put out food, you can look into timed feeders or leaving out foodcycles (make frozen food in an ice cube tray.) Since insulin starts to wane after the nadir, most people on the board don't let their kitties have any food after the nadir.

As far as food goes, you just want to make sure that your cat eats at the AMPS and PMPS times, especially when on insulin. If your cat is free-fed, it is harder to ensure they eat when you want them to.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I am self employed and work from home, but often have appointments during the day (I usually set appointments starting at 9am). Sometimes I am out all day on appointments and sometimes I am working all day from home so my schedule is pretty volatile, but I should be able to manage it as Frankie does not seem that she will be in need of TR. After the babies are born My wife will be home and once Frankie and I are more comfortable with testing (and if needed, shooting) I will teach her what to do, although I am hopeful for a possible diet regulated kitty, or full remission by then. AND I can't wit to take her back in for a check up to show the vet... (I'll be nice). Do you think I will need a baby scale? I was thinking about getting one this weekend.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

They used to be free fed Dry Nutro Max Cat Indoor. And Mollie would have 1/2 a can of Friskies in the eve. They are now getting 1/2 a can each in the AM and again at PM, but I am leaving it out because they don't always finish it right away. I can separate Frankie (I was keeping her in the bathroom when I was feeding) But I felt it was stressing her out too much

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I work from home as well ...well sort of, right now changing professions so that I can be at home more, told the last job where to shove it a couple years back...lol

You really don't need to keep track of how much she is eating as long as she is eating, but keeping track of her weight is an excellent way to see if she is eating enough. Like I said I feed all of mine together, except for 4 that will scarf and barf everyone else's food.

A baby scale is great and you can have it serve double duty, keep track of the twins and Frankie all in one.

It also depends on how Mollie and Frankie eat, some cats are grazers and some are hoovers, all of mine are hooves so leftovers is an unknown word here thus the timed feedings here. But it is perfectly fine to leave food down for your girls, just want to pick it up two hours before shot times if you do need to go on insulin so you get a true number that isn't influenced by food.

With Autumn I have the alarms on my cell phone set for test times, but I don't sweat it if I'm away from home and miss one. My husband bless his heart would faint if he had to test and shoot...for a man with as many tattoos as he has you would think he would be better with needles.. :lol: But he is just too tender hearted when it comes to the furry babies (thus why we have 14), to be able to test and shoot. So that is up to me.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I'd like to add something to your, already overwhelming, amount of information. :lol:

It might be better on Frankie, if you break up her 2 large meals into 4 smaller meals. It seems that larger meals have a tendency to tax the, already not working well, pancreas. Just as human diabetics are instructed to eat multiple smaller meals, it helps kitties too. :thumbup The pancreas doesn't have to work as hard to counteract the food spikes. Since, right now, you are waiting to see how well her pancreas can work on it's own, it could really help her out. :smile: Might be something to consider. :smile:

Being as new as I am, I don't chime in much, except for the little things that I have learned, like testing and diet.

Big hugz! :YMHUG:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I also leave Kismet's food down throughout the day. He doesn't scarf it all at once, but usually eats at least half to 2/3 at AMPS and PMPS times. It is usually all gone by +5 though. As Mel said, you just want to make sure you don't get food influenced AM and PM numbers, and if you start insulin, want to make sure she has some food in her system when you shoot.

Good luck tonight with the curve! I am keeping my paws crossed that Frankie will be one of the lucky ones who can be regulated by low carb food alone. Even if she needs to go on insulin, it may just be for a short period of time. When Kismet was diagnosed in September, he was only on insulin for 2 weeks before going into remission. Just changing his food from dry kibble to Fancy Feast wet was enough to lower his BG to normal, healthy values. Unfortunately, his BG has gone back up recently and we've had to start him on insulin again. If Frankie ends up needing insulin, it doesn't mean that she will need to be on it forever. The important thing is just to make sure she is healthy and her BG values are as normal as possible, whether on the juice or off.

Do you have ketostix to test for ketones? That's another thing to add to your kit if you don't have them yet. I try to test Kismet at least once a week, or more often when I can. I wait for him to go into the litterbox and use a spoon to catch a sample of urine, but there are other methods you can use. It is more of a challenge when you have a multiple cat household. I don't know what the recs are for ketone testing in Relaxed Lantus, but in TR, they test frequently.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

This is possible, but it may not always be at the same time (I am trying to see what works for everyone here) I'm trying to also figure out how, if ever, we will be able to go on a vacation (since we have baby twins coming, probably never) I am fortunate enough to have an animal lover (addicted to rescues) as a neighbor, but I want to make sure this is manageable by someone, if we have to leave for a few days So far Frankie's doing well, so I'm not going to make any drastic changes ATM,

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Oh thanks Courtney yes you will want to be testing for ketones as well, although no higher than she is, I wouldn't expect her to have them.
The recipe for ketones is not enough insulin + not enough food + infection somewhere.

Usually around here if the cat isn't running in super high numbers (over 300) we don't test for them that often, with the range that Frankie is in right now if you can catch her in the LB once a week you should be good to go. Especially if she has all 5Ps in place (purring, peeing, pooping, playing and preening). If she starts acting off in any way or stops eating you will want to test for ketones more often.

Speaking of poking a kitty...time to go poke Autumn

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Not yet... on the list

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

If you have an animal lover and a rescue addict living next door just teach them to test and shoot if you need to, many of us either travel with the diabetic kitty or hire a pet sitter and they do fine with twice a day testing and shots. What a lot of folks do is lower the dose slightly when away so there is no risk of the kitty going too low.

With 15 animals here vacation is merely a distant dream...lol or as we call it...an evening at the movies...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I try to catch Lucian every day for ketone testing, only because he has run so high. I rarely get it every day, but I try. I usually manage every other day.

I'm lucky, Lucian always 'goes' with his back to the door of the littler box, so I just keep the lid off now and sneak up behind him and put the strip into the urine stream. Once he's started going, he can't very well 'turn it off', so I get the test. :thumbup

But I have to make sure I 'hear' him going, if I jump the gun, he'll bail! :lol:

That was one of the 1st things I went for, when he wouldn't eat this morning, with him being almost 500. Of course, 500 hasn't been abnormal for him, he is unregulated and came home from the vet at over 700. He's been a tough one. :sad: But we're working on it. cat_pet_icon

Vacation? What's that? :lol: Being unemployed at the moment, I guess I'm ON vacation. :lol: Lord knows, it will probably be years before I have to worry about that.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Back from store.... I have Karo Syrup, FF with Gravy (i figure the gravy lovers was overkill) for Hypo Treatment if needed. I also got some ketostix and a 6 pack of Michelob Ultra for tonight I also stocked up on the non seafood Friskies Pate as it was on sale... totally forgot the sunflower seeds I need for my quitting smoking adventure (no cigs since 1/1/13, started with 4mg gum, now on the patch and working my way down the steps) But Gah!! I need my seeds man!! @-)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

You are a brave man...a pregnant wife, a new sugarcat, and quitting smoking!!! Good luck with that one, I was just about there on the smoking last summer than everything went to h*ll in a handbasket when my 17 year old best boy kitty got dxed with cancer, lost him on Nov 14th, lost my mom on Black Friday after Thanksgiving but got the call she was failing the same night we said goodbye to Onyx, and then just lost my mom's sister the day before Valentine's day so right back to smoking a pack a day. <sigh>

The patch works great if you can use it, I can't I get big red welts that last for days since they changed over to the clear plastic ones, when I quit many years ago I used the patch but then they were flesh colored and more like the bandaid material. Can't drink beer either, but never met a bottle of whiskey I didn't like :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

When I quit, I used the electronic (e-cigs). There are several different brands, but I like the infinitis the best. It's real nicotine, and the vapor looks like real smoke, too.

You sure do have a lot on your plate. My dear grandfather had a great expression for how all chaos happens at once: "the wind blew, and the sh** blew, and I couldn't see for a month or two" :lol: When Kismet was dx, we had a LOT going on too. And now since he has come back from remission, it has been another s***storm. ohmygod_smile

Hope you get your sunflower seeds! My crutch was lollipops.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I guess I just like to keep things interesting ;-)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

At least the babies are a cause for celebration... And it's good chaos :lol: wow, I read in your other thread that your vet recommended putting Frankie down. I am so glad you found us and are giving her a fighting chance! I guess another item to add to your to-do list is find another vet. There are quite a few lantus users in Arizona, so maybe someone can recommend someone to you.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

The Vet recommended extremely expensive hospitalization and/or coming in daily for tests and extremely expensive DRY food they have on their shelf (DM). I had to make the call whether to spend thousands of dollars on my cat or put her down. With twins on the way, the costs were out of the question.... soo glad I waited and did the research and founf you guys

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

She just tested at 250 and she is eating 1/2 can of Friskies.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I'm pretty sure you are going to need to start her on insulin since she just isn't dropping low enough on her own, and the sooner we get her down into those normal numbers the better the chance of her going into remission. Since you are already planning on being up with her tonight, if you want to start her tonight I would start her at no more than .25 or .5u or wait for tomorrow morning and start her then whichever works best for you.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Tonight is best for me... I just had to run out and get lancettes.... Should I test her again before I do this?

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

You can just so you have a starting point for her, and use that as your pmps number but maybe make a note in the comments of when she ate last inreference to to when you shoot. So if she ate at 6pm for example, and you shoot at say 7pm then in the notes put ate 1/2 can of friskies an hour before pmps test.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Just wanted to make sure you know she got a shot of Covenia at the Vet on Saturday. The vet said it is a long lasting antibiotic, so I don't know if that would affect the advice of starting injection. I am really nervous, so I would like confirmation on the .25 dose and if I should test her again before and when I should test her again

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

316

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Answered you in PM but yes that does make a difference, lets hold off a couple more days and see if she will continue to drop on her own since she is still trending downward.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Edited my comment. Lucian was on both within 2 days of each other, Insulin on the 1st day and Convenia on the 2nd. That's worrisome. :sad:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

When/If we do shots, I', planning on 6 am, 6 pm It's the most logical for our schedule

Right now we are holding for a few days and testing because of the covenia...per the SS I tested her at +1, so I'll test at +3 and +5... does that make sense? or should I test aqgain at +2 and then do +4 and +6?

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I saw Mel's answer and was surprised. Vet started Lucian on insulin and gave him Convenia the next day. Hope it doesn't cause a problem with my boy.

My testing times change about every day, although I try to get a +6 between shots. But I know your trying to get data, so any time should be fine I would think. You're running a curve right? They are usually every 2 hrs. I doubt it would matter much if you went 1,3,5,7,9 or 2,4,6,8.

Whatcha think Mel?

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

While she isn't on insulin there is really no set time to test, it is all just data to see how she is doing on her own. If she doesn't go below 250 by this Saturday I would go ahead and start her on a very low dose...but you are going to want to start her right at her normal shot time to make it the easiest on you all, otherwise you have to move her back slowly. Once you do, if you do you will want to test, feed and shoot all within about 15 minutes of each other.

Like with Autumn her shot time is 7am so I test at 6:45, get the food ready for the zoo, and then while everyone is eating shoot. Autumn doesn't even look up because her face is buried in the dish. So if you are planning on Frankie's shot times to be 6a/6p you will want to test her at 5:45, get the shot ready, feed her and shoot while she is eating. As low as she is I don't think I would start her on anymore than .25u. If that isn't enough we can always take her up, but you can't get it back out of the cat if its too much once it is shot.

To shoot a .25u you just have to kind of eyeball it half-way inbetween the .5u and the zero line. The very first line, closest to the needle is the zero line.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Okay... This curve I am running... is testing til +6 going to be enough? Otherwise I might as well wait until tomorrow to run a curve. I should be home most of the day, or only need to run out an hour an a half at most.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

She has already been below 250 this morning (238) I don't know if that matters, but just wanted to bring it up in case it does.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

OT.... does this forum have a mobile device app? I have Tapatalk, but I can find it there... Just wondering because I'm going to be running around the house the rest of the eve and wanted to be able to check in.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

That is still close enough to 250 given that all meters have a +/- of 20% but that does show she is still trending downward that is why I say to give her until the weekend to see if she comes down further.

In case no one has said, normal for a cat on a human meter is 40-120 so as long as she is still higher than 120 she is still in diabetic numbers, the 250ish is the renal threshhold or where she starts spilling sugar into her urine, also above that is where organ damage over the long term can begin to happen, so we don't want to leave her up there for very long. But organ damage isn't going to happen overnight either so she can be up there for a little while, so she can hopefully clear the infection, you and her can get use to testing and the diet change can take hold. That way we will have a better idea where to start her so hopefully she doesn't drop too low on you, and make for a very long hypo watch.

I tend to like to err on the side of caution whenever possible. I would rather she be high for a little longer than too low for a moment. High numbers kill slowly, too low can kill quickly.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Not that I know of but then again, I'm not smart phone savy...hey I'm lucky to be able to check my own email on a desktop...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Do I have to have a test strip plugged in to check the last time and BG level? or is there a way to turn it on without a strip in there? I'm using the Relion Confirm

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

You should be able to just turn on the meter I don't have the confirm I have the Micro but on the Micro it is the button with the single line that you hold down to turn on the meter without a strip in it. My other meter is the Bayer Contour and on it, it is the M (memory) button.

It should tell you in the booklet that came with the meter how to just turn it on without a strip. Let me see if I can find out for you too, I think I know a couple of folks that use the confirm just got to see if I can get ahold of them

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

My relion prime has the center button with the line, to turn it on.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Found it...hold both the up and down arrow until you hear a beep that turns it on, if you continue to hold them you will enter set up so let go after you hear the beep.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Sorry, I was playing legos with Jake until he went to bed. Just tested 299 at +3. Next test will be at +5

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Thank you!! I wanted to check times for my book log

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Hey Dan, I use the ReliOn Prime, too, which has the cheapest strips available on the market ($9 a bottle of 50). It's very user friendly, too. To turn it on, all you have to do is insert the strip. To review past readings, all you need to do is press the center button and use the arrows on either side to scroll the data. It also records the average numbers for the past two weeks. Nifty. I hope your curve goes well! Are you shooting tonight? If you are, it will be PMPS, not PMBG

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

No problem if I don't know I usually do know where to find most answers..or at least someone I think might, and then if all else fails Google is my friend.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I have the confirm... there are only two buttons on the side and when I hold both it goes into set mode, no matter how fast I release them after the beep... Reading directions now... LOL when in doubt.

I am not shooting tonight because of the Covina shot on Saturday.... the plan ATM is to watch her numbers trend until Saturday, if not consistently below 250 or better then shoot low (0.25)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Google can be your friend or your worst enemy :twisted: I need to trun off the pregnancy forums on my wifes pooter :razz:

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Sounds like a good idea. Just so you know, when you shoot the first time, you might want to run another curve or get more spot checks to see how Frankie responds to the insulin. Any time there is a new dose, or if insulin is being shot for the fist time, close monitoring is a good idea so you can determine if the dose is too high or too low. This does get easier the longer you do it. I know it's very overwhelming at first, and time consuming, but once you get the hang of it, it all becomes second nature. You are doing an incredible job and learning very quickly! Frankie is lucky to have a Daddy like you.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

Sounds like a plan to me. Better to error on the side of caution. And that will give you both a chance to get into a pattern with testing as well. With as much as you have on your plate baby steps will make it easier on everyone.

So when are the twins due? Hey at least you have experience with bottle feeding I saw the baby pictures of Frankie and Molly. I have two bottle babies here as well just mine are tuxes. And both of mine were still borns that we revived. Did have a litter of 6 all still born and all made it, just Duvessa and Myrrdin are the only ones I kept. Momma was a feral that chose to have her babies in the middle of a spring blizzard poor wee mites where frozen stiff, and we scooped them up and rushed them inside warmed them with towels that we kept putting in the dryer and used a blow dryer on them.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

I am just hoping her trends continue, Mommy is out of town, so I'm taking Jake to a B-day Party on Saturday and there is supposed to be a Science Event at the Sea Life Aquarium after that Jake would be really hurt if we didn't go to that. Sunday, I will have to do inspections so it's looking like Monday will be the 1st time I can shoot unless it comes to emergency. I could do Saturday PM, but would I be up all night, or just till the +6?

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

that is very similar to how I found these girls... Appraisal inspection Mid August, 110 degrees and sticky. rough neighborhood, no mama cats in site, home backed to major street and sleazy restaurant... Went to measure the front side and almost stepped on what I thought was a rat (Frankie) Mollie was a foot away...Eyes still shut, umbilical cords still attached... I was going to take them to the shelter, but I fell in love

Twins are due in Mid July... Identical, and probably boys... so that will make 3. Jacob Daniel is our 5 1/2 year old, and the names we have for the twins are Wyatt Anthony and Mason William.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

The sooner you can start, the better. You don't have to do a curve the fist time you shoot, but you will want to get either a +1 or +2, and something close to mid cycle. I rarely test after +6 (if he is in safe numbers) because it means he is starting to climb. The only reason we test so much early in the cycle is to make sure they are in safe numbers and don't drop too low. If you start with a very low dose like .25u, it really shouldn't be a problem, and you can always leave out food which will help keep bg levels up or surfing (staying fairly consistent, within 10 pts). You should be able to shoot on Saturday if you can get a couple of tests in.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250

There is really no way to know because it would depend on how she responds to the insulin, I've seen cats that get no action right away and then I've seen them do like my girl did today drop from 400s to 50 in a cycle, or even as my previous sugarcat go from high 300s to 32 in 3 hours That is why we usually unless you are a night bird suggest starting on a day when you will be up and around to monitor.

She will be fine until Monday if you need to wait until then to start insulin. Jake is a priority too,so take the little man to his party and to the aquarium and start Frankie on monday is you need to.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

I'm defiantly not a night Owl.... starting to fade as it is and it's only 9...I'll probably stay up til 10 for test and then set an alarm for 12 so I get a +5 and +7. I do want to start her asap when we determine that we need to, so if it's Sunday, then I inspect Monday.... I have 3 reports to finish tomorrow though which means 'll be home all day, so I don't know if that is too early, but tomorrow would be ideal

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

I think you should be fine to start tomorrow if you can get a couple of cycle checks before you leave for the party. You're also going to want to determine a good time for you to shoot and feed, because you're going to have to shoot/feed every 12 hours the same time every day. So, if you decide to shoot/feed at 6am, you will need to shoot/feed at 6pm. See what Mel thinks, but I think you should be fine to go ahead and start.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Party is on Saturday... I think the party is at 12...but I need to confirm... Watching family guy to pass time... So I'm on tablet

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

If you will be home all day tomorrow then lets shoot for getting her started then, as I will be around all day tomorrow as well so I can help watch for her. That way you will have some data on her before the party on Saturday. What I usually do when I first start a cat on insulin is get my preshot, then a +3, +6 and +9 kind of a mini curve that usually tells me about where their onset is, were nadir is likely to be as well as how fast they are going to go back up.

Now tomorrow night after about 4pm to about 7pm I won't be here, tomorrow is payday and kitty food stock up etc. But I will try to check in several times in the evening to see how she is doing. Weekends can be pretty dicey too on how much I'm around but again since I will know we have a kitty new to insulin on the board I will try to check in as much as possible just to keep an eye on you both.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

My goodness Dan, you have a lot going on this weekend, plus needing to wait to see how the Convenia pans out. A lot on your plate for sure.

Sounds like a great time with the young man.

I'm sure kitty won't mind a day or 2 until things get settled. cat_pet_icon

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Or we can wait and start Monday its your choice....it isn't going to do any harm to wait a couple more days to get her started. My little Autumn went 10+ months before I adopted her and started her on insulin and she is still trying hard to go into remission, and she was way higher in the beginning than Frankie so you make the call...Either tomorrow or Monday.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

I will be around tomorrow night. I don't have as much experience as Mel, but I can check in and be here for you if you need someone on. I've dealt with low numbers enough to know what to do, so if Mel thinks it's okay, I am more than happy to check in and help out if you need someone.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Cortney no offense and I do appreciate the offer to watch out for Dan and Frankie but lets let Dan make the call...he knows his schedule better than we do...Either way is fine, what matters most is what he is the most comfortable doing right now. Frankie will be fine until Monday if that works better for his schedule, or he can start tomorrow and we can tag team keeping an eye out for him if that works better.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

No offense taken. Was just offering to help if he decides to shoot tomorrow.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

We should probably wait until Monday... Weekend s are stupid crazy for me and I typically around most of the day.. If not... In and out, but I control my weekday schedule... Weekends are out of my hands, or I have a day full of inspections... Sorry for any typos....

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Then Monday it is, and I'm sure between Myself, Courtney and Jesse (Cedric's mom) you will have plenty of experienced eyes to keep you both safe and get you off to a great start

I know exactly what you mean about crazy weekends ...my husband is a bass player in a local band so if they are gigging my weekends are upside down and completely nuts. Much better to start when you have plenty of time just in case she decides to dive super low, nothing worse than having to go on a hypo watch and feeling pressured to be somewhere else as well. I don't expect her to, but rather be safe than sorry.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Mel and Dan,

Please forgive me if I am interfering at all. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, or contradict any advice you offer to Dan. That's why I keep deferring to you and qualifying my advice as just that, advice. I guess I thought it would be okay for me to chime in since you said everyone in RL are equals and there are no experts. I am not trying to tell Dan what to do, or interfere at all with the plan of action that he decides on. I just want to help, and if I can be of service, I am more than happy to help when I can. If you're not comfortable with this, or don't think I have enough experience, I will hang back and only offer support. I wasn't trying to pressure him into shooting tomorrow, so I apologize if it comes across that way. I read that you weren't going to be around for a few hours, so I thought I'd offer to fill in while you were out if he decided to shoot. That's all... just trying to help.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

I posted in the TR condo you have there, Dan.

I actually agree with Courtney that you should start insulin sooner rather than later. The longer a cat is at these numbers, the greater chance they become more insulin resistant. Especially since you don't really know how long she has been diabetic. We have a saying in FDMB...Every Cat Is Different ..ECID and Frankie might react differently to being at these numbers then another cat would.

I left you additional info on the TR condo.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

I'm, pretty experienced in forums for research on a particular topic... All advice that is given is taken into consideration and then I compile my plan of action based on my comfort with the situation, my expertise on the subject (slim to none here), the availability of resources and time. Everyone here has good input and I do not make snap decisions. I want to make the best decision for Frankie. Based on what I have learned so far, and the way her numbers are tracking... and a lot has to do with the way she is looking and acting (complete 180 from DX) I am comfortable waiting until I can for sure be around to monitor the injection. A plan to test her again around 12 am and based on the curve I have seen so far, it looks like she will be in the 240 to 250 range. There is no food around to spike right now. I gave her 2 small fd chicken pieces after test, but that's about what I give her after each test. I imagine by AMBG she will be in the low 200s if the trend continues. (Being a real estate appraiser, I look at trends daily, so I am using some trending experience). Everyone has been of great help and no one should feel like they are over stepping their bounds here. I spoke to several friends who are either diabetic, have diabetic children or animals and I know the consequences of making snap decisions here. I need to analyse every aspect, timing, trending, comfort of patient and provider, respects of my other loved ones, etc.... nothing here is being done without full comprehension....

The fact is, My baby is still alive, she is thriving and I owe it all to you all!! So don't sweat it

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

BTW, +5 Test was 270

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Hey Dan,
There's no big all rush, seriously. Waiting until Monday if that's the best day that you will be around to monitor and watch her on the first day of insulin is wise. Do what feels best for you and your schedules.

There is no right time, this sooner rather than later is silly. For someone to suggest you must start immediately is foolhardy, and I doubt that anyone here started their cat on insulin on a day when they'd be in and out, unable to be around to monitor the initial reaction to insulin. Three days, that's all. Wait if you feel the need.

For sure nobody knows how long their cat's been a diabetic, and a 3 day wait will not make a big difference in any insulin resistance.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

What do you mean.... it was the day after Halloween when she ate all Jakes candy right? J/K :lol: Here's the deal I can start her tomorrow and I can be around all day to monitor, or I test through the weekend and see what her numbers do, but no way can I shoot on Saturday or Sunday because I would not be around to monitor her first injection. Monday would be the soonest after tomorrow....Also... I have Ketone tests, but I have now idea how I'm going to get a reliable sample... I never know when she is going to the bathroom. We have a litter box upstairs and downstairs. I would have to keep her in the bathroom to keep her in one litter box.... I guess I could just check on her every 15 minutes... but holy He** thats going to wreak havoc on the fact that I have 3 reports to finish tomorrow... mind you all 3 have been put off because of this and are late ATM... If I lose my source of income this is all futile...

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Damn that halloween candy!! :lol: Glad you can keep your sense of humor, it helps.

Hopefully, the world won't end between now and Monday. :lol:

I'm 'shopping', trying to find vitamins for my Lucian. Helps me stay awake for 1 more test.

I don't normally do this, but his numbers have been whacky tonight, due to an apparent upset tummy that messed up his schedule this morning, so I just don't want to risk it.

Have a good night!

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Still not sure if everyone making the recommendation to go sooner than later has considered the covenia shot on 2/23. I'd like to get some feed back here.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Sometimes, it's all we got.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Gee, I thought that was the biggest reason to wait, to see if the antibiotic clearing up the infection, would reduce her BG levels?

You just happen to have a ton of stuff you need to do over the weekend on top of it. I dunno, being only 8 weeks in, there's too much I haven't learned yet. :sad: Wish I could help more.

I generally stick to being a 'cheering section'. :lol: About all I can help with is testing and diet, the newbee stuff.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Some are thinking that it may have not been a UTI after all.... Idk.... what I do know is I'm testing in 20 mins and crawling in bed... I hate being up this late... I am not a coffee person, my poison is diet coke, but if I drink now, I'd be cracked out all night @-)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

272... so probably start dose tomorrow morning 6 am? Oie 5:30 is not looking good...

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

I have another hour yet :sad:

Mel is usually on about 8am EST, I know she's an hr different from me, which is EST. That would be her 7am. Don't know what the difference is between you two. But I would suggest you have someone around to answer any questions you might have.

Get some rest. I-) I-) I-)

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Well, to address the Convenia thing..... I think people who had issues saw the bad reaction within a few days, say like an allergy, but yours was a week ago, so if no big issues by now, it may be OK.
Here's the deal according to Dr. Lisa's site... I love her site.
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia

http://www.drugs.com/vet/convenia.html

There's a facebook page with many posts on how some animals were affected.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Convenia ... 7391502152

There's plenty to find on the topic, and even one of my cats was given convenia shot after her dental, and I freaked about that, but she was perfectly fine.... after a week, I think you should be OK, but have the vet file marked NO CONVENIA and NO METACAM

About starting insulin....with Lantus and Levemir, there's the shed to fill so the first day may be a non-event, but that's not a guarantee, so I think I'd want to be around to monitor, test and track how it's going. I would want to see how my cat reacts, if at all.
So I would wait until I would be around to watch my cat, and test to see if there is a reaction to my starting dose.

If you want to start tomorrow, that's fine. I would not worry about the time because it takes a few hours for the cat to react to a shot, and if you have any questions, you can post in Health and there's usually people around who can help.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

If there is no reaction today and there is tomorrow I have a huge problem in being able to monitor her. Getting ready for AMPS or BG... Depending on what I decide.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Dan

Neither of my 2 diabetics were started on insulin immediately Maxwell has been in remission for over 2 years and Autumn who went 10+ months before she began treatment because I adopted them both as an untreated diabetic....If Monday is better for you then that is when to start. Both of mine were adopted as diabetics when their original owners elected to euthanize rather than treat.

As Blue and I both have said 3 days one way or the other isn't going to matter...what is going to matter is that you are around to monitor because we have no idea how she is going to react to that first shot, and starting on a day when you need to be in and out isn't the day to do it.

Courtney, I repeatedly thanked you for your offer to help...But I did feel that you being a bit pushy about when Dan needed to start insulin after he explained what all was on his plate...I was simply giving him his options and allowing him to make the call as to when he wanted to begin. You weren't stepping on anyone's toes and I appreciate your offer to help should he decide to start on a day that I may not be around to help him.

So again Dan it is your call...whenever you are the most comfortable to start the insulin is fine...Frankie will be fine as well as long as she is still eating and drinking with all 5 of her Ps in place (peeing, pooping, preening, Playing, & purring).

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

She tested at 243 this morning. I know that it looks like she has flattened out. I am still seeing improvement in her physical attributes. I have again decided to wait until Monday to shoot because I am afraid that toady may be a non event day while the Lantus Depots... If that happens then the active cycle may be on Saturday or Sunday which I will not be able to monitor closely. If I take the weekend and get all my fieldwork and family commitments done, I will be home most of the 1st part of next week and then I will be able to monitor if the is active right away, or depots and has an active cycle the next day or two. I think this is better for both mine and Frankie's stress levels too. The improvements I have seen are 180 from where she was and I don't think 2 days of her getting used to the new diet and testing (routine) are going to hurt one bit. Thanks and I will keep everyone updated on her numbers as I will continue to test as I have been (before and +2 to +3 after meals). 5 P's are all there

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

You and you alone know what is best for you and Frankie. And we will be right here when you are ready to get her started. I do agree that a couple more days isn't going to hurt one bit, as long as she is still improving and getting into the new routine of things.

I know I am always more comfortable in starting insulin on a day when I know I have nothing better to do than stare at my cat. Especially with no higher than she is, now if she was say where my Autumn started out when I got her at 528 and already having moderate ketones I would be pushing you harder to get her on insulin asap, because Autumn truly was a disaster waiting to happen in fact I am still surprised that she survived long enough to find her way into my heart and home.

The only thing I would like to see you add to the routine over the weekend since you are waiting until Monday to start her, is try to get a couple ketone tests in...I don't expect her to be throwing ketones but better to check those as well than have her headed for DKA, and because every cat is different some are more prone to them than others..So might as well add that to the routine while you are getting everything in place. Again better to error on the side of caution just to be safe.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3

Mel, I do believe you were the one who suggested that he shoot today. I never told him when to shoot... I said the sooner the better, and if he wanted to start today, that it should be okay. Go back and reread the thread... I never pushed him to shoot today. When I offered to help today, if he decided to shoot, I was responding to the above quoted post by you. Let's just be clear about this... somewhere, you misconstrued my words. Nowhere did I tell Dan what to do!

Dan, I wish you all the best on whatever you decide to. There are a lot of people here who are willing to help you, and will support whatever decisions you make.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

I will try to put her in the box and cat some pee to run a test of two. I don't know when she is in the box most of the time, but When I have some time, I'll stick her in a clean box and see if I can catch some in some tin foil.

 

Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314 PMBG 250; 316 +1; 299 +3; 270 +5

Tested at 349 +3