? 05/31 - Small Kitty amps 565 old strips pmps 306 +3 268 with New strips

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Photorecon, May 31, 2016.

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  1. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Slightly better this morning, still in the black but getting forward (for a morning test).

    What's less good is the sanitary file. Yesterday at my arrival there was urine on one
    of the two carpet, freshly cleaned from the same situation 2 days ago. Now, this morning,
    the other (and only one left) was also soaked with urine. I start to think there some UTI
    in the air. Don't know from who but looking at the litter box I see that one of my cats is
    urinating just a bit, tiny spots. Sounds like it's Big Brother has Small Kitty is always pushing
    a big load when high on SL.

    Do you think I can expect a big vet bill to have this investigated ? I start to be very
    short on cash flow.

    Hope it's not another brick falling on my head...

    Wish you a good day all with a very low SL with SS full of green.

    Sébastien


    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...497-bouncing-near-escape.158648/#post-1690531
     
  2. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    There are two problems...one is whichever kitty is peeing on the rug. Since you don't know which kitty for sure it could be SK because of the higher glucose levels or it could be BB for a number of reasons. Have you changed the brand of litter recently? I know you bought a new litter box a while ago. Does it have a cover? Some kitties do not like a covered box. Are the boxes kept clean? I am sure you clean them well, but when you are work the boxes could become over-filled. One of my kitties will not use a litter box if it has been used even once without cleaning. I have 3 litter boxes for 2 kitties and scoop them numerous times through the day. Sometimes overnight...maybe 6 hours without scooping...Tuxie will pee on the floor because the boxes all have "something" in them. Adding one more box may help with that.

    The other more pressing problem is whether there is a UTI going on. One problem is you are not sure which kitty is peeing outside the box and which kitty is only peeing small amounts. Without going to the vet it is a bit more difficult to tell if there is a UTI. If you are able to collect a urine sample from each kitty you can look at the samples. If they appear clouded then there may very well be an infection. I use the Chemstrips to test periodically. These are like the ketodiastix except they have more "squares" on the strip. You can get them with 5, 7 or 10 square strips. There is one square that shows whether there is blood present in the urine..even if you can't see it. This would usually indicate the presence of an infection of some sort. The 10 strips ones I bought cost me $63 Cdn for 100 strips, but even the 5 or 7 square would be fine.

    Of course even if you determine there is an infection you would still have to take your kitty to the vet and they would perform the same test there before giving antibiotics. My last urinalysis cost $59 Cdn (Manitoba) and that was with me providing the urine sample from home. It would cost more if they had to draw the sample there and an added fee if you wanted a urine culture done.
     
  3. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    The difficulty with providing a urine sample from home is that it's not sterile. As a result of the amount of bacteria that simply floats around in the air or on surfaces, you don't actually know if you have a clean sample. Unfortunately, the best way to get a sample is a cystocentesis followed by a culture and sensitivity (C & S) which will tell you what the bacteria is and what antibiotic it is sensitive to. The cystocentesis involves the vet drawing urine out of the bladder with a needle which is more expensive than a potentially contaminated urine sample.


     
  4. Elle & Squeak (GA)

    Elle & Squeak (GA) Member

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    The tiny spots of urine in the litter box would be a warning sign of a UTI for me. Squeak has had two UTIs this year (well, one UTI that needed two courses of treatment) and the first symptom I saw was those tiny balls of urine in her litter box. Quite soon after, there was visible blood in her urine. When it recurred, I noticed a couple of days of slightly more frequent urinating in slightly smaller amounts, then overnight one night she had blood in her urine again, so back to the vet we went.

    I had a urinalysis and urine culture done (the same process as Sienne described above) and it cost me $130 plus tax (located in Ontario). The culture is definitely worth it (in my opinion) as it will tell you what antibiotic is best to kill the bacteria - especially important in Squeak's case as she reacts very poorly to antibiotics, so I'd rather pinpoint what we need and get it right the first time!
     
  5. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Sebastien, I sure hope it's not a UTI but since SK has had them in the past, it is a good possibility that it is him again. They have discomfort with the UTI and associate the Litter box with the pain so they start to be outside the box. Hope you can have the vet investigate it.

    Have you gotten a ketone test lately, the last recorded one was on 5.26. Hope my strips arrive to you today.
     
  6. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Some of the problem is that Sebastian has two kitties. Sweet SK and civie BB as well as a chance of two separate problems. He is not positive which kitty is peeing on the carpet and which kitty is doing the small pee spots. I don't think he can afford to take both kitties in for cystocentesis and culture. His vet would possibly charge an office visit on top of the urine draw and culture.

    That is one reason I had suggested the chemstrips. With the chemstrips he could get a sample from each kitty..hopefully...and see if there if the chemstrip shows any blood in the urine, which is the indication that there may be an infection. The chemstrip 5 would show this, and should be cheaper than the chemstrip 10 that I paid $63/100. They are good for about 1 year as long as kept in the original container and closed tight. This is the same type of strip the vets use for the urinalysis and then they will use the microscope to look for bacteria if there is blood showing in the test. Of course the culture would have to be sent out to another lab.

    Just a thought on trying to keep things more affordable.


    ETA Although the cystocentesis is the gold standard for drawing urine for culture I have had two cultures done with samples from home and both were negative. I had them done for each kitty when they were diagnosed as a precaution even though there were no symptoms. Of course if you are paying the extra for a culture you would want a sterile sample.
     
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  7. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Is it possible to separate them until they pee to narrow it down as to who us doing what? Smokey won't use the boxes if there is anything in it. I'm constantly scooping 3 boxes all day. Today is a day they all get disinfected.
     
  8. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014

    That was one of the things I had mentioned on my earlier post:

    "Are the boxes kept clean? I am sure you clean them well, but when you are work the boxes could become over-filled. One of my kitties will not use a litter box if it has been used even once without cleaning. I have 3 litter boxes for 2 kitties and scoop them numerous times through the day. Sometimes overnight...maybe 6 hours without scooping...Tuxie will pee on the floor because the boxes all have "something" in them. Adding one more box may help with that. "

    Since Sebastian is not able to monitor during the day and has only a few hours in the evening, it might be hard to separate the kitties, without locking them up separate all day. That would come down to how his kitties would respond to that.
     
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  9. Elle & Squeak (GA)

    Elle & Squeak (GA) Member

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    I've never used the chem strips, but I do think they're probably the easiest way for Sebastien to sort out which kitty is having issues. I was home and noticed Squeak having problems - if I'd come home to the aftermath, I wouldn't likely have been able to tell who it was (I also have two cats). I definitely wouldn't want to have to take them both to the vet to figure it out!

    I felt the same way about the culture - it was already going to be costly, so I went with the cystocentesis so we didn't risk contamination in a free caught sample. It was enough to do it once - didn't want to do it twice!

    Hopefully you can figure out which cat it is, Sebastien.
     
  10. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    The Chemstrips or Multistix are the same idea as the ketodiastix...they just test for more than glucose and ketones:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That is a good idea so he can check both cats and not take the wrong cat to the vets.
     
  12. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks for your repy, very good ideas. I wasn't feeling well this morning so I called my boss asking if it would a problem arriving a little bit late. They set it as sick hours and said it wasn't a problem at all. Just before I was leaving I catched Small Kitty doing his job (the way it should). I had saren wrap nearby and was able to catch some sample. The little drop that could be retrieved (the rest has fallen inside showed no ketone in it.

    The only time I catched one of my cat doing this (peeing on carpet) was Big Brother. He's pretty discrete on
    going to the litter box so catching sample could be hard.

    Both little boxes are cleaned twice or more a day, every time I'm there. It's never ''over crowded''.
    What's strange is that this is something new and quantity is not small. Litter is a new brand, but they've
    used it before.

    Mary Ann or one of you mentioned the 125$ culture analysis. I remember something like that and
    it was 70$ consultation + 50$ gathering + 150$ for analysis. Not cheap.

    Also, I dont think Big Brother is over jalous about the attention given to his brother. I always take
    the time to put it on my knees and give him as much attention as possible.

    Not sure what to do.

    .
     
  13. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Isolation is kind a hard, the only closed room is the very small bathroom. They will scratch the door up until only wood is left.
    Litter boxes are ones with cover, same model, cleaned and they have used them before this is something that started something like
    3 weeks ago, when I bough the second litter box. It helped for a week but came back after. They are both in different rooms and
    used by both Small Kitty and Big Brother at the same level (there is one full the other empty). There is never more then one load
    of urine before cleaning, often one has not been used by the time of cleaning.

    .
     
  14. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Can these trips be found in regular drug stores ?
     
  15. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    You could try removing the cover from the litter box. Some kitties don't like covers, and even if they used them in the past, maybe trying some of the simplest trials would be easiest. Have you changed the brand of litter in the last while?
     
  16. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen them in regular drug stores here. Although a lot of the drug stores near me don't even carry the ketodiastix. I actually ordered mine from a Sports Medicine clinic connected to a walk-in clinic by my place. I probably could have ordered them from the drug store, but the people at the Sports Medicine Clinic were much nicer and more helpful, so I ordered from them.

    You can also order them online, but I like to see the expiry date before I pay so I ordered mine for local pickup.
     
  17. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is a concern. Your vet seems to like charging through the roof, so I am sure he would charge the office visit, plus the urine collection. urinalysis and culture which makes it totally overpriced.


    When you caught SK peeing was it larger amounts (as usual) or just small dots? Usually with a UTI a kitty will go to the litter box many times one after the other and only pee a teeny amount.


    Does BB only pee on the one carpet?? Is it a small mat or a fixed carpet? Sometimes there is still a lingering odour of urine even if the mat/carpet has been cleaned. I use a mix of vinegar and water to clean small accidents, otherwise the kitties "think" it is okay to use that spot. If the area BB pees on is a small mat you could try removing it all together.
     
  18. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016

    https://www.dufortlavigne.com/, should arrive this week or early next week. They are located in Montreal.

    Challenge will be to get urine from BB, he's not used to have this kind of thing done.
     
  19. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    both are small carpets, like the ones you put in front of entrance in houses. Last time I cleaned one I powdered it with
    baby power to remove the smell. One that I just cleaned last week-end has been sprayed with vinegar to kill the smell.
    I will put aircleaner spay on it to remove the vinegar smell. I'll see if this make it.
     
  20. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    He pees on 2 carpets. One in front of the litter box and another next to the rear door, 3 feet away from the second litter box (in a different room).
     
  21. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014

    You can do the same "trick" with the saran wrap with BB. It can be difficult, but I am sure you will manage.


    You could try removing the mat altogether and see if that helps. You could put something else there if you have it. I had one small mat that I cleaned and sterilized and used vinegar and sprayed with lysol and more and one of my kitties still peed on it. When I finally put a new one there it stopped. Sometimes there is still an odour that we can't smell, but since kitties have such a keen sense of smell they can.


    ETA The mat near the litter box could be replaced with some clear plastic. like you would use for putting up insulation. If BB still pees on that it is much easier to clean.
     
  22. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Could this be a distress call more than a malign act ?

    .
     
  23. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    When a kitty pees inappropriately, first I look at things that might have changed...new litter, dirty litter box, etc. Then I consider some sort of health issue next. If health issues are ruled out, then it could be a behaviour problem.
     
  24. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    At one time I was so tired that I put an aluminium pan, it was kept clean but not very aesthetically nice.

    Right now I've put the inside of a travel case found in garbage :)

    Better then an aluminium pan :cat:
     
  25. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is certainly inventive. :)

    ETA My son's 2 kitties are both females. When he first had them the litter boxes were quite small and they would pee over the edge. I gave him a sheet of plastic..you could even open up a large garbage bag...and it made it easier to clean. Once he bought larger boxes he did not have the problem any more
     
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  26. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That's a good idea with the garbage bag. My cats are so big that a litter box was too small. I bought a great big plastic bin that you would store sweaters in. This gave them both so much more room in the box.
     
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  27. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is a great idea with the plastic bin. I need to add one more box and I am sure I have a plastic bin in storage I could use.
     
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  28. Elle & Squeak (GA)

    Elle & Squeak (GA) Member

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    I went the plastic bin route too. We got a tall Rubbermaid with a lid and cut a door in it. No more pee leaking out the seam between the tray and the hood of the litter box - certainly makes my life easier!

    Prior to the new box, we used a plastic boot tray under the litter box to catch any leaks.
     
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  29. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    I would like to say thanks to all who responding, these are very constructive suggestion, I'll go ahead
    with the tricks and test.

    Now is one think that is completely confusing me on a very different matter.

    I always had to use Freedom Lite strips because I could not afford the Alpha Trak II ones.
    There was always some in reserve but the reserve of 25 ran dry. I ordered a new batch 2 weeks
    ago from a company in the US that was not coming in. I called them to ask what was going on.
    They said that they were no longer shipping for free internationally so nothing was shipped.

    The reason I was keeping ATII strips was to calibrate my meter using Freedom Lite strips. Usually
    the results were never the same with the code on the AT2 bottle, I always had to adjust the
    meter with a code that would give the same results using the testing solution.

    Today I received a new batch of Freedom Lite strips, I did the same coding test taking as a reference
    the balanced results given with the AT2 strips. The results were all different then my previous experience.
    Usually I just had to set the meter one notch up to get the mid point result, all I was getting were higher
    results tonight.

    So I did was Mary Ann had told she is doing and set the meter to the code found on the AT2 bottle
    of strips... It gave me something that was still higher with the testing solution but on Small Kitty
    results were different but on the good way : 306

    Like I had done before, I tested on Big Brother, my other cat. Last time I tested him result was 7.1,
    now with the Alapha Trac II, using the Freedom Lite strips I got 5.1.

    Can a set of strips be completely different from one batch to another ? This batch comes from India,
    the other ones needing calibration from the US.

    .
     
  30. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    When using FS Lite strips with AT2 meter...you would put a FS Lite strip in the AT2 meter and test with the AT2 control test solution. You will NEVER get identical results, even if you do three or four tests in a row but the strips are considered "calibrated" if they fall into the test solution range listed on the AT2 strip container. On mine that range is 5.5-10.27 mmol (100-185 US).

    Strips can vary from one batch to another, which is why I do a control test solution test each container of FS Lite strips I open. I don't know why the strips would be coming from India though :oops: Is there any reason you are not buying the FS Lite strips where you live??
     
  31. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Purchased on EBay, here at the drug store it would be around 100$ On Ebay it was 45$ free shipping. I got 9.7 with testing solution, same coding as on the AT2 bottle. This is with this code that I got test results above on both my cats.
     
  32. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Am I gonna be banned from FDMB cause of irresponsible behavior ? (with my previous of coding)

    Witch was initially working when calibrated on the prevous FL strips batch, was giving 4.1
     
  33. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    OK..here I get 100 FS Lite strips for $65 Cdn, sometimes for $55 Cdn so I don't buy on line. If you got 9.7 using the control test solution that is within the acceptable range as listed on the AT2 strip container when using the test solution.

    It could well be that you were changing the codes before when you should not have been. As I said before you use the same code as listed on the AT2 strip container and do not try to "fine tune" it or it could give incorrect values.

    The forum does not advise people to use FS Lite strips with the AT2 meter. However there are quite a number of people who do, but you must take the correct steps and do side by side comparisons with AT2 strips and FS Lite strips..preferably with the same blood drop and always use the control test solution.


    ETA Abbott does have some of their FS Lite strips made at their plant in India.
     
  34. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sebastian

    I just noticed you said you got Freedom Lite strips not FreeStyle Lite strips. I do not think the Freedom Lite strips work the same as the FS Lite strips :eek:


    I know you can use FS Lite strips in a Freedom Lite meter, but I have no idea how they work with the AT2 meter
     
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  35. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    What I dont understand is that I had done these side by side test, pictures to to prove it, and the results
    were the just far by 1.4. Tests were done with test solution AND blood. I ordered AT2 strips, they should arrive in 2 weeks.

    Ex : AT2 Stript with his own strip coded 37 gave 21.1 Same AT2 meter set at 38 with Free Style Lite strips gave 20.2

    Dont get it...
     
  36. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    No it's FreeStyle Lite.
     
  37. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good catch Mary Ann.
     
  38. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Those results are basically the same. But do not try to "fine tune" the coding any more than it is.


    Oh good. I have no idea about the Freedom Lite strips.
     
  39. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Sebastian since you have more strips could you do another test on both SK and BB tonight, That would give some indication how the new strips are matching up. :)
     
  40. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    I won't, that for sure.... Still, initially the setup was fine, it went sideways ...
     
  41. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    That can be done, although I've scrap 5 in figuring out what was wrong + 2 on previous Kitty test.

    Should I set it here, on this overcrowded post ?
     
  42. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    It is still part of today's posting so you could post here.
     
  43. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks to all, sorry to take so much ''antenna time'' :blackeye:. I'll post a +3 test, that a good idea you have
    Mary Ann.
     
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  44. Photorecon

    Photorecon Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
    Comparative test between BB and SK will have to be for tomorrow, Big Brother is not cooperating.
    Got to take him by surprise, when he's expecting what's coming he fights.

    Small Kitty, on the other hand is probably way better then we tough : 268

    Not bad at all, just good enough to go sleep :)
     
  45. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is looking VERY good. [​IMG]
     
  46. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2011
    Take a look here for some information on urinary tract health.http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth and same vet who had posted here on FDMB made some comments here.

    As far as the peeing goes, I'd get rid of the little rugs that have been peed on. Chances are good that there is still some odor there - baby powder won't do anything to get rid of it - and it's attracting the cats. Removing the lid is another good suggestion. I tried the procedure on this site on one of our mattresses that the cats had peed on several times and it worked amazingly well. However, I then covered the mattress with a waterproof cover and haven't let the cats back into that bedroom so I can't say for certain that they aren't still attracted to it. To my nose it got everything out of the mattress, though.

    What are the costs of human glucometer strips, Sebastien? In the US they cost 1/4 of AT strips - as in I could buy 4 human meter strips for the cost of 1 AT strip. Even with having to get a new glucometer, the savings is huge when one switches to a human meter. All of our documents list numbers in human meters. I'd think that would be one obvious way you could save significantly. I'd look online for somewhere that you can order a generic glucometer and strips and have them sent to Canada. Here in the US we can order from AmericanDiabetesWholesale.com, but I know they don't ship to Canada. What about this site?

    The concern about mixing strips and glucometers is that it raises doubt about accuracy.
     
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