? 07/11 - Small Kitty amps 85 pmps 302 +2.5 376 - Low Number Preshot

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Photorecon

Photorecon

Very Active Member
Good morning,

Don't think if it's related, but yesterday and this morning I started looking at
Small Kitty and saying : ''That start to look like a real cat''. Weight is perfect at 5kg,
no bones are visible, no curvature in the back, able to climb near the top of a 10 feet
net, jumping on top of the fridge... And even better, there hasn't been any red for 5 days.

I'm always hesitant on letter the Lantus pool come down, but security first. With his
new tendency to bent downward more food has been given and will be available but
no shot this morning.

Isn't this nice or what ??

Good day all, boss need more overtime, again.

Yesterday :
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-pmps-274-best-amps-ever.161052/#post-1721748
 
What a great sight and I so wish you were able to shoot that number because you shoot low to stay low with Lantus but, as you said safety first and if you can't monitor you did the right thing. SK is looking good. :cat:
 
Since you are following SLGS that AMPS was at a reduction level. Did you feed before shooting at +1? If you did that higher +1 number would have been food influenced. Now that SK is hitting lower numbers it is a much different approach than when he was in those high numbers before. If you are getting low PS readings DO NOT FEED and retest in 20 or 30 minutes after the first test to make sure the number is rising without food before deciding if you are going to shoot. With not being able to test during the day, you want to make sure SK is not going to drop too low.
 
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Tuxedo Mom said:
Since you are following SLGS that AMPS was at a reduction level. Did you feed before shooting at +1? If you did that higher +1 number would have been food influenced. Now that SK is hitting lower numbers it is a much different approach than when he was in those high numbers before. If you are getting low PS readings DO NOT FEED and retest in 20 minutes after the first test to make sure the number is rising without food before deciding if you are going to shoot. With not being able to test during the day, you want to make sure SK is not going to drop too low.
Click to expand...
Good catch Mary Ann, I did not even look at the SS because Sebastien said he was skipping the shot. :confused:
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Since you are following SLGS that AMPS was at a reduction level. Did you feed before shooting at +1? If you did that higher +1 number would have been food influenced. Now that SK is hitting lower numbers it is a much different approach than when he was in those high numbers before. If you are getting low PS readings DO NOT FEED and retest in 20 minutes after the first test to make sure the number is rising without food before deciding if you are going to shoot. With not being able to test during the day, you want to make sure SK is not going to drop too low.
Click to expand...

I'm a new learner to low numbers. I wanted to raise the GL so I could shoot and not run in an hypo so I did feed + some extra. That did the trick, raised to 191. Woun't this food stay in the blood stream ?

The problem now is that I did the shot but ''re-pump'' to know if there was blood. The ''re-pump'' brought liquid back.... Didn't try to shoot this back in.

Another first, didn't know what that was an the needle was already out. Kept thing as is. I used the bottom of the tent technique and put the needle deep.

Might I have shot anything ??
 
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FROM THE STICKY FOR SLGS METHOD:

"
If the preshot number is near usual preshot numbers:
  • Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.
We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90, so there is no need to push a cat into numbers lower than that."

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/


The problem is that if you feed SK and retake the reading shortly afterwards it will be food influenced. Now that SK is hitting lower numbers and starting at lower levels the approach may need to be redesigned. With not being able to monitor during the day, you want to make sure that SK does not go too low. Perhaps you could add this as a question in your title.

I don't know why you did a "re-pump" after shooting the insulin. If you are ever questioning whether you are hitting a capillary or vein you would draw back on the syringe BEFORE injecting and then inject the contents of the syringe, although if you are doing the tenting method there really shouldn't be a problem, since you only want to get the injection under the skin. There is a possibility that you might have drawn out some of the insulin from the injection site. The numbers at PMPS could be higher from a bounce OR from a fur-hot or partial fur shot.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
If you are ever questioning whether you are hitting a capillary or vein you would draw back on the syringe BEFORE injecting and then inject the contents of the syringe
Click to expand...

Last time I do that, I would never have tough fluid would come back. When shooting on flat skin on the neck there was always resistance, never had
liquid coming back. :(
 
Photorecon said:
Last time I do that, I would never have tough fluid would come back. When shooting on flat skin on the neck there was always resistance, never had
liquid coming back. :(
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There are" layers" of fluids in the skin. This is why you get a blister when you burn yourself. The upper layer of skin becomes inflammed and the fluids below rise up and form a blister. So in reality you can't say for sure if what you drew back up was body fluid or insulin, but in the future best just not to do that ;)
 
Remember Sebastien.....since you shot late this morning, you'll want to shoot late at PMPS too

If you can, get a +11 and post it....sometimes it's OK to shoot early if the number is high enough

You can work your way back to your normal schedule 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes once a day

so if you shoot at 6, you'd wait to shoot tonight until 6:45pm, 6:30am tomorrow, 6:15pm tomorrow night then back on schedule OR

shoot at 6:30pm tonight, 6:30am tomorrow morning and 6pm tomorrow night
 
I've been reading the guide on SLGS (had read it before) and there is something that go my attention :

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Under MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA one symptom that is mentioned is :
-Sudden ravenous hunger

This where came the reflex I have to feed right away, Small Kitty jump on the counter and
will throw everything on his path to get food. This is why I feed asap.

Guide says : Try feeding first

When the guide talk about low number, is it low for the specific cat or low like below 60 ?
 
Photorecon said:
I've been reading the guide on SLGS (had read it before) and there is something that go my attention :

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Under MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA one symptom that is mentioned is :
-Sudden ravenous hunger

This where came the reflex I have to feed right away, Small Kitty jump on the counter and
will throw everything on his path to get food. This is why I feed asap.

Guide says : Try feeding first

When the guide talk about low number, is it low for the specific cat or low like below 60 ?
Click to expand...



Some kitties have symptoms and others won't. My Tuxie gets VERY hungry if his numbers get low, while Maxie shows no signs even when she got to 1.8 (32US) on an AT2 pet meter. :eek: :eek: This is why testing is so important. SK may give you warnings with excessive hunger, but you can't always rely on that.

On the more aggressive TR protocol you do not want the numbers to get below 68 (3.8 mmol/L) on a pet meter. The earlier in the cycle the numbers are near 68 the more vigilant you have to be. Although there is no specific cut off number for a pet meter when using SLGS the "accepted" lowest level is 90 (5 mmol). I believe you are following SLGS since you cannot test during the day on work days.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Some kitties have symptoms and others won't. My Tuxie gets VERY hungry if his numbers get low, while Maxie shows no signs even when she got to 1.8 (32US) on an AT2 pet meter. :eek: :eek: This is why testing is so important. SK may give you warnings with excessive hunger, but you can't always rely on that.

On the more aggressive TR protocol you do not want the numbers to get below 68 (3.8 mmol/L) on a pet meter. The earlier in the cycle the numbers are near 68 the more vigilant you have to be. Although there is no specific cut off number for a pet meter when using SLGS the "accepted" lowest level is 90 (5 mmol). I believe you are following SLGS since you cannot test during the day on work days.
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Thanks you Mary Ann, 5 is actually my no shoot line (Big Brother maintains himself at this level :))
But I will wait 1h without food next time and see if he's rising.
 
If after waiting 1h and testing with a big drop of blood you still get a low result ? Is extra feeding
a good strategy to compensate if you have to leave without a shot ? When I leave it's for a full day.

No ambiguity for now, pmps 302. The shot I had doubt about this morning must have work.

Tricky those low numbers... ;)
 
Photorecon said:
If after waiting 1h and testing with a big drop of blood you still get a low result ? Is extra feeding
a good strategy to compensate if you have to leave without a shot ? When I leave it's for a full day.

Tricky those low numbers... ;)
Click to expand...


There are different strategies. Depending how low the number is you could give a token shot...maybe 1/2 of the usual dose. You could feed MC and leave HC in the feeders. Or you could just skip the shot. Since SK is new to these low numbers you really don't know what is happening during the day. The only other thing you could try is to have the fellow who took care of SK when you were away on the weekend come in a do a test and leave extra food. It is just tricky right now because there is no one to monitor SK during the day so you don't know how low he might have gone,
 
Chris & China said:
Remember Sebastien.....since you shot late this morning, you'll want to shoot late at PMPS too

If you can, get a +11 and post it....sometimes it's OK to shoot early if the number is high enough

You can work your way back to your normal schedule 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes once a day

so if you shoot at 6, you'd wait to shoot tonight until 6:45pm, 6:30am tomorrow, 6:15pm tomorrow night then back on schedule OR

shoot at 6:30pm tonight, 6:30am tomorrow morning and 6pm tomorrow night
Click to expand...

I was late by 30min this morning so I'll hold the dose on haft an hour. Then 6h15 tomorrow and we should be back on track. :)
 
I want to make sure your spreadsheet reflects what really happened this morning.

I think you tested at +12 and got an 85. You fed SK and an hour later he was at 191 and then you shot 2.5u.

Is that correct?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I want to make sure your spreadsheet reflects what really happened this morning.

I think you tested at +12 and got an 85. You fed SK and an hour later he was at 191 and then you shot 2.5u.

Is that correct?
Click to expand...

You got it right, I tested at +12, got the 85 and had my mind setup to skip the am dose and feed.
Eating took no less then 5min.
1 hour later, at +1 decided to test again, got the 191, went ahead with the shot witch I wasn't sure worked.
Then I left with MC food Small Kitty took right away and put some more MC in the feeder.

12 : test 85 - Feeding
+1 : Test 191 - Shot - More feeding

Then had to go.
 
Sounds there is something Small Kitty didn't like

+2.5 376

We get used pretty quickly to low numbers... :)

*BTW, Bobbie, Tested for Ketone today : 0.4, sounds we're safe
 
ok - so to get it correctly in the spreadsheet, you want it to look like this:

amps column
12=85
13=191

You're always counting from the last shot, so a +1 is not 1 hour after the time you usually shoot, but it is only +1 when it is one hour after you've given the shot.

I would add a note in the comments section on the right that you fed at +12 this morning.

So is that
Photorecon said:
+2.5 376
Click to expand...
really 2.5 hours after tonight's shot? And was today's cycle 12 hours in between the time he got the morning shot and the time he got the pm shot?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
ok - so to get it correctly in the spreadsheet, you want it to look like this:

amps column
12=85
13=191

You're always counting from the last shot, so a +1 is not 1 hour after the time you usually shoot, but it is only +1 when it is one hour after you've given the shot.

I would add a note in the comments section on the right that you fed at +12 this morning.

So is that

really 2.5 hours after tonight's shot? And was today's cycle 12 hours in between the time he got the morning shot and the time he got the pm shot?
Click to expand...
That's right, 74 increase 2.5h after shot in a 12h cycle. Feeding at 12. Small Kitty is surprising...
julie & punkin (ga) said:
You're always counting from the last shot, so a +1 is not 1 hour after the time you usually shoot, but it is only +1 when it is one hour after you've given the shot.
Click to expand...

That means that the test result get precedence over the field ''U'' or the dose ? You put the dose from the 3rd row to where ever there is room on your SS ? Even if it's not lined up with the other dates ? I first tested at 6 (as usual)=amps row at 85. Then tested at 7, so this is now +1, this is why the row labeled +1 has 191 in it.
 
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Your preshot test ALWAYS goes under AMPS or PMPS columns. Your dose column doesn't need a time because you'll put the time in the preshot column. Right now it shows +1 2.5 in the dose column - but that wasn't +1, it was +13. You shot 13 hours after the last shot, not one hour after the last shot.

Look at Punkin's spreadsheet here and notice what I did on 03/30/11 at pmps. That tells everyone what numbers I got and when, and the last number is the one that I shot.

If I'm not making sense, @Marje and Gracie would likely be willing to fix it for you.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Your preshot test ALWAYS goes under AMPS or PMPS columns. Your dose column doesn't need a time because you'll put the time in the preshot column. Right now it shows +1 2.5 in the dose column - but that wasn't +1, it was +13. You shot 13 hours after the last shot, not one hour after the last shot.

Look at Punkin's spreadsheet here and notice what I did on 03/30/11 at pmps. That tells everyone what numbers I got and when, and the last number is the one that I shot.

If I'm not making sense, @Marje and Gracie would likely be willing to fix it for you.
Click to expand...

Think I got it, will correct it tomorrow following your example. I don't know if you're a teacher but you're good at explaining.
I just have more difficulties at understanding things, when first introduced.

Thanks a lot Julie, will have a good night of sleep and make the correction. It's important to have a clear picture of what's
really happening for further adjustment.

Good night to you, wish you good rest.
 
We're picky about the spreadsheets only so that no one makes an error in helping someone. It helps protect kitties if everyone is recording information following the same format.

And you're working in a second language here - you do fabulously, Sebastien!!

Sounds great - it's late for you. Hope you sleep well!
 
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