1/12/20 Zoot AMBG 84 PMBG 65 OTJ Trial Day 2

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Cinnie Cole, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    Back to a more normal reading. After yesterday's insanity I am hoping for a better day today. Finger's crossed.
     
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  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I hope he stays in green numbers for you today without any insulin aboard.
     
  3. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Interesting turn of events! I hope Zoot is one of those 'light switch' cats! Suddenly the pancreas just comes back to life!! Wouldn't that be fabulous? I know I'd love to see that :)

    Have a great day Cinnie!
     
  4. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    We are hoping he can will do okay and he is way more stable today. It is interesting that his +3 is lower than AMPS since he as been off insulin now for three cycles.

    Our Vet has been following the SS and notes weekly, and even before last Friday's visit, he felt there might be some remission signals happening. He asked us to stay off insulin this weekend (as long as we were staying in the green) - but he trusts us to use FDMB guidance and our judgement.

    Fingers crossed!
     
  5. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    Low numbers continue with +8=52. Just gave him some LC food. He is eating, so that is good. Is there a point where I should not feed him and just let the numbers go where they will?

    I am just totally perplexed at all these greens with having no insulin. So at this point when should I start being happy with his low numbers instead of concerned?

    Overall his coat looks good and he is alert (has been sleeping most of the day) and he can jump up and down to sofas and chairs. How do I know if he is really OTJ?
     
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Zoot is looking really good. It looks like his pancreas is working as the BG is going down after he eats which is what it should do. Just keep monitoring before meals and three hours later to see if the BG is going down.
    I would start to feel happy now. Let’s see how he goes over the next few days.
    Normally we like them to reduce the insulin until they are having .25 then 0.1 but it looks like Zoot has other ideas.
     
  7. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    Damn it. I just got a 38 at +8.5 updating spreadsheet now. I gave him a little HC.
     
  8. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    If you get a low number like that, retest just to be sure. Check it again in 1/2 hour.
    Cats who aren’t getting insulin can have quite low BGs.
    I’ll ask @Wendy&Neko to have a look at his numbers and see what she thinks.
     
  9. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    @Bron and Sheba (GA) Should I stop feeding him after these low readings?
    Thanks! I retested it came back 40.
     
  10. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Depending on what numbers look like at PMPS, that's a dose reduction for sure.

    Please keep testing to make sure Zoot's numbers don't slide back down. You do realize your kitty is on a mission!!
     
  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    If you didn’t give insulin this morning, could you change your subject line to read AMBG (blood glucose) instead of AMPS? That way we know at a glance you didn’t give insulin this morning. Or yesterday. :D Let’s where he goes for a couple with no insulin. If he creeps up, you may have to dose again.
     
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  12. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    Can't reduce his dose - he hasn't had insulin for 3 cycles! I think he is doing good, but I am trying to be on top of his situation. That is the thing - with him not getting any insulin now, it appears he is producing on his own. I just don't know how to handle the low numbers - should I keep giving HC or just let him wait till dinner?
     
  13. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2017
    Would you mind changing your title to AMBG which indicates you did not shoot insulin? There may still be some depot affecting this cycle, but it does look like Zoot is on a mission!
     
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  14. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    His last dose was 1.0u.

    I think the big question here is whether Zoot started his own OTJ trial. I'd like to see what happens by PMPS.
     
  15. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    By the way, we have seen cats during a OTJ trials throw out high 30’s. My civvie tests in the 40’s. We just don’t want cats on insulin to go that low. You still have some higher depot in play, so not a bad idea to feed those 30’s.
     
  16. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    Great - very helpful! Yes, I think he is running his own trial!
     
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  17. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I was chatting back channel with a few folks. If you think Zoot is doing OK despite being off his food and being lethargic, it might be wise to call for a trial and make it official. So, at the next green pre-shot Zoot's OTJ trial begins!

    • If he is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If he/she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working! Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed.
    • He may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.
    • After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!
    Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him/her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on. Once he/she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his/her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him/her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he/she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his/her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!

    Good luck with the trial!!!
     
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  18. Cinnie Cole

    Cinnie Cole Member

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    Jun 1, 2019
    First of All - WOO HOO!

    Second - I just tested his PMBG and he is at +65, so WOO! HOO! Let's start the trial :)

    Third- this schedule and steps look great and we will take it one day at a time!

    And finally - Is there any way I should designate in my daily thread title that he is on the trial?

    Thanks so much.
     
  19. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    You could change today's subject line to read 1/12/20 Zoot AMBG 84 PMBG 65 OTJ Trial Day 2.

    Good luck!
     

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