1/13 Paul-Kyle SS update

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Melissa&Paul-Kyle, Jan 13, 2010.

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  1. Melissa&Paul-Kyle

    Melissa&Paul-Kyle Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    updated...

    wondering if this 3 hour feeding before shot thing is really doing THAT much different? I still get the higher numbers 3 hours after eating...

    I guess what IS better is that the difference between the PS and 3 hours is shallower now, right? ( not always...see some greens to pink- ergh)

    What happens if I shoot and then feed 3 hours later? talk this out with me, would you? I am trying to get a schedule that works for going back to work...

    shooting first is quicker than feeding first...don't ask- it just is! :)
     
  2. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    It's about time. :roll:

    Were you giving him food AT shot time before? What ever you were doing before this didn't work, right?
     
  3. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Well, well, well. Looked at SS. He is no longer peaking at shot time, is he? Given that his nadir is around +9 looks like, what about increasing dose slightly to get that down a little and maybe prevent those PS pinks?

    And for feeding, what about an hour before shot time? What happens then? I think you need to experiment with the feeding times a little before deciding what to go with. But a slight dose increase maybe to 1.3 or 1.4U may prevent the pinks. Or you can try the food times first before increasing dose. That would probably help you compare better. If you increase dose now AND change the food times, you may get all confoosled.
    :lol:
     
  4. Melissa&Paul-Kyle

    Melissa&Paul-Kyle Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks for response Vicky...I am afraid bumping him up will put him too low...remember he hypo'd just a short time ago on the 1.5u.

    Essentially PK's peak seems to be whenever I feed him...If I feed at +2 or +9 or PS THAT is his peak...Introduce the food and PHEW! to the moon shoot his BG's!

    This next stuff is form a response I sent to someone so may not mesh with your's but it was some brainstorming that I wanted to put out there so maybe more eyes can see and respond to...

    PK started the L's with a +12 nadir, not the typical +6ish.

    So for the most part I was feeding him PS at the time when shot had peaked and was wearing off.

    Backing up the 3 hours to +9 I was hoping to feed when insulin was on the upswing and still climbing to nadir- does that make sense?

    Now that I have done that- I have moved his peak to +9 ( or whenever he is fed) and instead of the green to pink I was seeing when shot and feed at same time, I now generally see blue to yellow or blue to pink. ( now I see greens to pinks dotting in though)

    In my mind that is a shallower curve and better on his body. I still hate the pinks, though.

    One caveat...if I feed +12 he goes up from there...if I feed +9 he goes up from there, if I feed at +2 he goes up from there, too!!! ( this all documented on SS)

    He is a food spike baby! He will drop until I feed him, then bing! UP go the BG's.

    Essentially if I never had to feed him he would stay in the greens all day! :)

    I am starting to think it needs to be 6/6 ...feed at +6, shoot at +12, feed at +6 shoot ant +12...

    What I do now w/ +9 feed/+12 shot renders me lifeless can't see being home every 6 hours once work starts. Auto feed would only work if I boxed him in a room on his own, no access to the others and no outdoor enclosure- then what life does HE have?

    To sate curiosity I may try it for a week or so at 6/6...God help a woman that loves sugar cats!

    IF you see something different that would work better or if you still think feeding at +3 is better than +9 when he is a late nadir guy, PLEASE tell me!!!
     
  5. Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA

    Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Given the relationship between feeding, shot, and nadir - and what happens when you start moving things around - I think the only way you are going to make this smooth out is to feed more than 2 meals - which I know is impossible for you. What I am thinking is feeding smaller meals = less of a spike and maybe the insulin could get ahead of the food spike a bit before the next meal hits. I just don't know how you can do that with your set up.

    How much time are you at home from when you wake up until you leave adn how much time from when you get home until you go to sleep? Can you feed him as soon as you get up (feed all of them) and then feed just him again right before you leave? The feed all when you get home and him before you go to bed? That is how I do my crew, but I have 90-120 mins from wake up to departure and about 4 hours at night.
     
  6. Melissa&Paul-Kyle

    Melissa&Paul-Kyle Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Well...I USED to get up at 4 am, but that is when I USED to go to bed at 8pm!

    NOW I have to wait up for Pauly's shot at 9:30pm, so am getting up more like 6am now....

    The cats ARE fed at 6am or shortly after, then the 9:30am shot...ditto at night.

    Right now with work slow in the winter I CAN wait and leave at 9:30 right after shot and I CAN get home for the 6:30 feeding etc....

    I DID try the 1/2 meal thing a few times a few months ago and nothing happened excpet I had TWO food spikes instead of one.

    I could try it again in the next big storm that shuts us in....I won't be able to do it when work starts again in Spring- won't be able to swing the 3 hr difference between food and shot then either...*sigh

    Thanks for response!
     
  7. Michele&Molly

    Michele&Molly Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    the relationship between food and insulin continues to boogle my brain. And of course, what works with one cat doesn't naturally work with another (the feline law). I hope you can find the magic timing. All you can do it keep trying different variations of feeding times, hold it for a few and collect enough data that will drive decisions. I'll be watching. Hang in there friend.
     
  8. Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA

    Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    maybe even 2 hours between meals would help?

    With Beau, I would still split meals even if I only had 1.5 hrs. between.
     
  9. Melissa&Paul-Kyle

    Melissa&Paul-Kyle Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    okay- +9 164, fed him HALF his breakfast, will check AMPS at +12 and see what we see as well as feed the other half of meal and test again, maybe- if I am home.

    I figure- hell! I have to be here to shoot the cat three hours after I feed, so might as well feed him the other half of breakfast then, too...

    We'll do this for a few days to a week and see if anything changes.
     
  10. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Next time you get snowed in or you are home 3 hours AFTER shot, get some +3 BGs. I'm curious how well the insulin brings him down after food. I think you have room to move up your dose a smidge, not 1.5U if you think that's gonna throw him low, but maybe bump it up a drop or so 1.3 or 1.4. It looks like he can hold better after food if he's in green at nadir.
     
  11. Melissa&Paul-Kyle

    Melissa&Paul-Kyle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Well I missed the +3 two days in a row, but I got a +4! it was 312 :roll:

    Okay- only been split feeding for 3 cycles, but so far is inconclusive to no difference ( except I have to stand and watch FOUR times a day now instead of 2 :? )

    See this:

    1-3-10
    +9 89 Fed ALL
    AMPS 230
    +4 302

    1-18-10
    +10 152 Fed HALF
    AMPS 242 Fed HALF
    +4 312

    Looks pretty identical to me....

    As to the dose hike Vicky- I know what you are saying...here is MY point---> . ( just kidding! )

    Okay- so if I increase the dose ( remember he hypos on 1.5) to 1.4 or whatever- first and foremost I CAN NOT measure that reliably the same every cycle, so there's that.

    But what concerns me most is that Paul DROPS form +6 onward until I feed him. So if I feed him at +9 that is his peak for the day...feed him at +11 THAT is his peak for the day...also if I feed him at +2 he is still dropping if he has not eaten yet.

    So what I am saying is, if I cannot get home or up in the morning in time for whatever reason ( the snow storm last week made me 3 hrs late) then he will be dropping until I get here to stuff his face.

    If I give him MORE insulin than what he is getting now, he will drop FURTHER than he already does at +9 which could put him passed green into scary land...I won't do that.

    Not to mettion the lower he goes at +9, the higher peak he climbs to the +12...

    I'd rather keep him on a shallow curve of higher numbers (*sigh) than a stark jump and dive that invlove the lower numbers.

    Anyway, if you look back at the 1.5 and on his +12's were just as high or higher with more insulin.

    More insulin doesn't seem to equal lower numbers for PK...not right now anyway...

    Does that make sense?
     
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