11/23 Silver AMPS 8; +3=7.4; +5=6.5; +7=6.8; +9=7

Yesterday's condo

Ok so I was a little nervous shooting a blue and going out all day but he was having so much fun playing in the grass last night he wanted to do it again.

So, given his track record of his PMPS being a lot lower than his AMPS, but also given that it's the weekend so I can stay up all night checking him if need be - what's my lowest NO SHOOT number for tonight??

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 FIRST BLUE AMPS

Let's wait and see where he's at tonight before making a final decision, but generally, if he's above 150, we'll tell you to shoot

As long as you can be home to monitor and have all the supplies you need, you'll learn to shoot anything above 50 (but that's later on when you have more data on how Silver does)

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 FIRST BLUE AMPS

Thanks Chris....so how to change the name of my link? Thought I'd be clever and try it myself but messed it up!

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

I see Chris beat me to it, but ditto what she said. Let's see how he does today before we make the final call on tonight's No Shoot number.

Which link are you trying to change?

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

thanks for clarifying - I was wondering if the Chris I've been talking to on FB was male or female! Sorry Chris!

fixed the link, I was messing around with adding a link to my previous condo on the new thread like I see she has been doing.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Actually I think I miss typed I think Chris and China Chris is female...not real sure, but if I'm wrong I'm sure I will be corrected, just we don't have a lot of Sugar Dads on the broad, a few but not nearly as many as we do Sugar Moms. lol

And only TR requires you to link back to your previous condos, you can here if you wish, but we are a lot more free form over here, just because we don't have the amount of daily condos as they do over there. In fact a lot of us that have been here awhile start a new condo about once a week, we just edit the title daily. I know myself, after 2 years of dancing with Autumn there are days I just run out of new things to say about here to even bother starting a new condo.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Awwww, how can you ever run out of things to say about your baby cat_pet_icon

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Well it happens from time to time plus I do have 17 babies here, 16 cat and one drooler that thinks he's a cat, and also believes that every cat he sees outside should be in our house.

So there are times that Autumn just hasn't been all the impressive from day to day, well until recently when she decided to change ALL the rules on how she was going to work her juice. (juice being insulin). And for about the last month I've felt like a complete newbie again with her. I could see what she was doing in the form of the pattern but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why, or how to make it stop. Then finally it dawned on me that just maybe her cycle (the period between one shot to the next) was longer than the standard 12/12 and because of that her nadirs were overlapping causing her to drop into the 20s and then spring-board right back into the 400s. So I got creative and now she is back doing what she is suppose to do. Autumn just a bit of a special case.

Miss Autumn has a pretty sad story behind her, I adopted her after she was already diabetic, from DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need). I watched her on their website for several months and no one was stepping up to take her in. I've never really been much of a fan of torties until I met her. But Autumn was just breaking my heart as her previous owner wasn't doing anything at all to treat her, nor would she put her to sleep so poor Autumn was just slowly starving to death, while eating like a horse. When she finally got transported out to me, she was very near death. We've come a very long ways in just 2 years, she looks and acts nothing like the cat I first met.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Autumn is lucky to have found her forever home. I will never understand cruelty to animals and not treating a sick animal classes as cruelty in my book. The 16-16 must be pretty hard cycle in order to allow sleep! Tomorrow I plan to wake up, feed shoot and test at 6:30 am as usual then head back to bed til the 8:30 test. I am beat! I am actually beginning to enjoy this dance now that I am a little less terrified but I think a lot of that had to do with the vet's protocol and my stressing out over who to listen to. Its amazing how much relief I feel now I am not having that struggle. I gave the vet the time as promised - in fact, I have been doing it her way for 6 weeks and Silver was bouncing about all over the place. Three days doing it following the protocols here - and already Silver is settling down, no huge bounce this morning and I've not seen him so active and playing in weeks. Soooo, no more stressing over who to listen to!

Juliet and Silver.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

This dance is FUN once it no longer terrifies you, that is why I have adopted 4 more after my first girl died. I love watching what the insulin does in their bodies, and I love watching a cat that most would have put to sleep because they are so sick, rebound and not only recover but actually get better than they've been in years. Running, jumping, playing like a kitten again. And the bond that happens between the sugarcat and the caregiver is AMAZING.

For a lot of years I raised and trained Arabian horses, and I get the same thrill out of dancing with sugarcats as I use to when I was working with a young or wild horse and finally saw the light come on in that horse's eyes when they finally Got what I was trying to teach them. You can just see something click, when they realize that its okay, to let this puny little human touch you, or sit on your back. I still miss walking into my barn and being greeted by nickers and big soft velvet muzzles stretching out to say hello, but one day I'll have that back again. Right now I need to still be in the city, and close to my father-in-law to help him out. He is 90 also diabetic, and with heart problems so we wanted to be close enough to help if he needs us.

Really the 16/16 is easier to get sleep on if Cassanova hadn't gone back on the juice and needing to be on a 12/12. Since I'm always up by 6 am don't shoot until 7am, then not again until 11 pm which puts Autumn mid-point on those days at 7 am the next day, and then that day I don't shoot again until 3 pm so I have all evening to watch over her, and she is past her mid-point by 11 pm that night when I normally turn in for the night anyhow, and everyone gets their before bed snack at 10 pm so even if she is low she is either eating or just about to. So very easy to test and shoot and sleep at night.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Yeah, I've noticed that with Silver - his personality has changed a lot since his diagnosis. Much more demanding for attention and sleeping my bed. Never used to be like that. I have to be careful to make sure Sasha gets her due time and attention though. I am worried about her as she has gained a lot of weight. I think she has gained because Silver is no longer chasing her round the house. I cut out her dry food almost entirely when I changed Silver's food. She is only getting a miniscule amount of dry coz I want to use up that bag of Purina DM I bought from the vet. She gets 1/2 a can of FF and a teaspoon (literally that's all) of dry food in with the wet twice a day - yet she is not losing a single pound. I don't want her to become diabetic as I know excess weight can do that. Any ideas?? I am trying to get her to play but neither Silver nor Sasha were the types of kitties to play much. She sleeps all day the wee fatso. She's 16lb on last weigh in but she used to be a dainty little girl of 12lb.

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Oh can I take weight off a kitty...Cassanova was 37lbs when I adopted him. Yes he was a walking watermelon. First off you can return the bag of DM to your vet for a refund, just say neither cat will eat it. The company will take it back and refund your money even if it's been opened. Cass got to 37 lbs eating it.

Next get a laser pointer if you don't have one or one of those long feather wands. Make her chase it, annoy her with it until she does. lol I even took an the thin end of an old fishing rod, tied a catnip bird toy to it with fishing line and went 'cat fishing" with it when Cass was a blimp and didn't want to move at all. I bothered him so much in those early days I figured he would hate me, if I saw him sleeping I would wake him up to play with me. I would get down on the floor with him and tangle things in his face, I would run him over with the other cats chasing the Red dot, I was annoying. I'd pick him up and sticking on the highest perch of the cat tree just so he'd have to jump down to eat etc.

A year later he is a lean, muscular guy with loads of energy. He now chases me when we play hide and go seek. Or he will chase our 1 year old kitten around the house. He's just an amazing cat now and still loves me to bits, just he isn't allowed in the bedroom at night because he likes to "sing" at about 3 am to all the outdoor cats. :roll: And for not being siamese he has a very LOUD voice. In fact even my 4 Siamese will look at him like "Dude, can you tone it down some?" lol

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Lol that made me laugh. Silver likes to sing at 4am too. And if I kept him out the bedroom he would sing louder on the ther side of the door and wake my landlord upstairs!!

Ok I'll try the pointer thingy. Re the dry food hmm. I don't want to see my vet right now lol! How much FF should I feed if I remove the miniscule amount of dry?

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

How much should she weigh? On average a 10 lb cat should be getting about 2 cans per day of FF, if her ideal weight is a little more, then you feed a little more, if her ideal weight is under 10 lbs then feed a little less. Cass is ideally a 16 lb cat he's just a big boned large fellow I feed him about 10 oz per day, give or take a little he steals off the other cat's plates when they are done. But to feed all 16 I go through 20 cans per day broken up into 4 meals. (5.5 oz Friskies cans) so roughly 40 cans of FF if I was willing to open that many 3 oz cans everyday...lol

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Congrats to Silver, swimming in the pond! :RAHCAT

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

20 cans! Oh boy you are making me tired. I love cats but my limit is two ;-) Is it more cost effective to feed Friskies than FF? is one can of Friskies equal to 2 cans of FF? What brands of Friskies is okay for diabetics? I know we are digressing in the condo but its useful info.

Actually I don't know. I have never taken her to a vet. They are indoor cats so I have not taken them for annual shots except their initial shots and spaying. But she is the same litter as Silver and he's looking neat and trim at 12lb so I would say much the same - 12lb. I was feeding her less as she was getting a tinsy bit of dry and also coz I am aiming for weight loss.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Thanks Deb...he's making me a little nervous as I think he would rather be playing in the grass ;-)

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

I'm with Mel...find a toy that your cats can't resist

China's all time favorite is Da Bird

I got her one when she started getting a little too uhhhh...."fluffy"....LOL

These aren't my cats in the video, but that's what it looks like around here when I get out Da Bird! All my cats really love it
[youtube]97CaN1J3TPo[/youtube]

P.S....both China and I are female..just a couple of old broads .....lol

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

:lol: :lol:

I will check out da bird but so far all I have got them is not interesting them. They are 8 and have not been used to playing coz their mommy lives in a small apartment she doesn't want trashed. Hmmmm.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

Da Bird, the wand with feathers on the end, and laser pointers tend to be all round favorites for cats. Maddy is also fond of ball or other things, like the plastic ring of the milk container or plastic bottle caps, that she can knock around and chase. Hopefully, you'll continue to see progress with Silver's neuropathy and he'll start chasing her around again.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6) FIRST BLUE AMPS

hmmmm....yes, I want him well. 100% definitely. But I'm liking the fact that I can leave things on surfaces that the cats can NOT access...ie my knitting has been intact for a few weeks ;-)

 

Re: 11/21 Silver- LATE TRYING NOT TO PANIC

You have a few options.

1) You could skip and start again in the morning.
2) You can shoot when you get home and work on getting back to your usual shooting time over the course of the weekend. For example, if you ended up doing the whole thing at 8:00, tomorrow you would shoot at 7:30, Sunday at 7:00 and Monday you're back to 6:30. (Or in 15 minute increments - Saturday at 7:45am and 7:30pm, Sunday at 7:15 am and 7:00am, Monday at 6:45am and 6:30pm).
3) I saw on the FB page that you could temporarily do two 18 hour cycles. So you would shoot at 12:30am and then at 6:30pm tomorrow.

There may be some other ideas too.

We all try to stick to the 12 hour cycle, but life intervenes. This happens to everyone. You just do your best.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Thanks Maddy, I took down my frantically panicked post about being late coz I jumped off the train and took a cab. He's being doing so well I didnt want to mess up his system!

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Okay Silver is surprising me completely. I got home and his PMPS is 7.8 (140.4). I didn't want to shoot the full 1 unit so I just gave 0.5. Whats the general consensus - did I do the right thing? Mel?

I hope I haven't messed up this nice system of consistency we had going but I was a bit nervous to shoot such a low number without checking first to see who was online and I was already a bit late with his shot.

Juliet and Silver.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

You did fine. Usually depending on how late you would either reduce the dose and shoot just like you did. I'm still fighting traffic myself. God I hate the holiday shopping season takes 4 times longer to do anything!! Still on phone atm so will post more once home and I get my crew fed.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Me too thats why I do all my shopping online.

I am still amazed at his numbers and so relieved that we are not at 2 units. I cant wait for my vet to see this! Oh and I gave 0.5 not 0.25 as I posted. Typo.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

It's always best to be safe if you aren't sure what to do Juliet!

I know you were running late due to the train being late, so were under pressure to get it done as soon as possible, so we'll just see how it goes and if the smaller shot does cause him to go higher, he'll get back on track soon

Usually, if you're unsure (and not already running late) you can Stall, don't feed and recheck in about 20 minutes to see if his BG is going up on it's own without the influence of food

Also, as long as he's above 150 (8.3) and you have the supplies you need and are able to test, we're usually going to tell you to shoot the "scheduled" dose so you stay as consistent as possible

All that being said..You did fine!! He's looking great!!

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Thanks Chris. Yes Mel had said the magic number was 150 but he was actually below that so I hesitated to give the full dose. I am about to test him again in a couple mins for his +1 - not sure yet if he spikes with food so this should tell. Will update post shortly.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Eventually, you'll shoot even lower (believe it or not!)

Now I'm on TR instead of Relaxed, but once we have enough data to understand how our cats respond to both food and insulin, most of us will shoot anything above 50..I think the Relaxed protocol doesn't shoot below 80 or 90 (Mel will be able to tell you for sure though)

I know it looks wrong to see when they drop from 400 to 250 and we're telling you to shoot a 150....it LOOKS like it would drop him to zero, but it doesn't work that way. Shooting low numbers usually keeps them in nice flat green or blue numbers without a lot of dips and spikes

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

I'm ok with that as long as I am home. I won't be able to shoot low and go out for 12 hours during the week. Too much of a risk I think. Cross that bridge when we have to. I think the TR protocol is only for those who can intensively monitor their cat and I can't at all during the week :-(

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

Chris

We kinda hybrid the two protocols. When still consistently high or on limited data we give reductions at 90, but once down like Silver then yep once data supports we shoot anything above 50 & reduction is earned the same as TR. Just an FYI encase you ever need to know to help out over here

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2 (183.6); PMPS 7.8 (140.4)

So I shouldnt have reduced his dose tonight then?

Is that when the nadir is at 90? I am hoping to find Silver's current nadir tomorrow. But I think its likely below 90 already.
Who is online early in the morning EST that could help if I got a green preshot? I think Mel, I am two hrs ahead of your time.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

If your EST then you're only an hour ahead of me. You shoot when, 7a.m.?

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

6:30am actually.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Okay back home and have the crew tested, fed and shot for the evening.

Yeah, my actual Holiday shopping I do online as well, today was just trying to get the weekly basics. Cat food, Litter, test strips, syringes and food for us. Just what normally takes me maybe 2 hours was taking forever and then on the way home there was a 3 car accident of course on the route to my house and on the only section of road where you can't turn off to avoid the backed up traffic.. grumpy_cat

Now back to what I was telling Chris. With Tight Regulation a cat doesn't earn a dose reduction until they have a reading below 50 for someone like Silver that has been on insulin less than a year or below 40 for someone like Autumn who has been a long-term diabetic. Over here, while the cat is still running in the high pinks, and yellows we give the reduction if anywhere in the cycle they hit 90 or below. But once the cat is staying in the low yellows, blues or greens the reduction come if they hit the same criteria as in Tight Regulation. As long as testing data supports the ability to shoot low to stay low. Or in other words either lots of random spot checks or nice flat curves. If we have a cat that likes to jump around like they are on a pogo stick, Autumn is a good example of that recently, then we don't shoot below 90 for new diabetics or below 80 for a long term.

It really is kind of hard to explain since over here because of the inability for most of us to monitor closely what is safe to shoot for one cat and caregiver, might not be for another. Just because we are kind of the nonconformists of the forum. We are a lot more flexible about when to shoot, what to shoot and on what preshot number to shoot based on the ability to stay with. Like with Pam and Larry since she can't wake up at night to test, we keep Larry a little higher at night just to keep him safe, but with Autumn because I can stay with her and test regardless of the time of day or night I will shoot her as long as she is above 50, or at least I would until she changed her pattern on me after 2 years. Now I'm back to not shooting below 180 with her until I get the new pattern figured out, then I will slowly drop that number again once she smooths out and I can figure out what is and isn't a safe number to shoot on.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

The quick answer to your question about reducing tonight is No, you shouldn't have reduced (as long as you can be home to test and have all the supplies you need) BUT since you were already running late and weren't sure what to do, it's always better to err on the side of safety and either shoot a reduced dose or skip

At least by shooting a reduced dose instead of skipping tonight, you're keeping some insulin in him, so that will help, but he may run a little higher tonight...and for up to a few days ahead

There's really no way to know until we see what happens. Every cat is different and will respond in different ways. Some cats can bounce right back after a skipped or reduced shot..some take a few cycles or days to get back where they started

Don't worry about it tonight...You kept Silver safe...that's the most important part!

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Okay now this is what I was meaning re conflicting advice. Mel told me last night that my no shoot number was 150 as she knows Silver's tendency to drop suddenly after a couple hrs.

I am really really trying to rely on this board but the advice must be consistent right?

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Yes...150 isn't necessarily a NO shot number....for newer people who don't have a lot of data on how their cat responds to food or insulin, it's where we say "Stop, Stall...ask for help"

When a new member first starts to shoot lower numbers, we like to have someone who can be 100% sure that they're going to be online to help in case the newer cat drops too low

With him being at 140, that's close enough (in my opinion) to have stalled, posted and see if someone could make sure to be around tonight in case you needed help

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

I just edited my post as you were typing. Mel was clear that 150 was my no shoot number.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Okay that is going to be 5:30 my time so yeah a little early for me to be mobile on a weekend...lol But someone should be alive and kicking on either Health or TR about that time in the morning and you can always post there or even cross post, which is probably the best option that way all the advice stays on one condo, so when I jump on in the morning I can catch up quickly without having to go search 200 condos over on TR. And that way you aren't getting conflicting advice either since the two protocols while they share a lot in common do have a few quirks that are different.

To cross post, you open your condo here, then go and highlight the address bar at the top of the browser window, like right now where it says http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB?posting.php etc that is what you want to copy (ctrl C) then you go open a condo over in TR with a title like need advice in RL low preshot or something close to that in the title.

Then you do it just like you linked back to your previous condo here, except you use the address from here over there.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Actually Chris this is where the two protocols differ especially right now with Silver. Because his dose has been bounced around so much, and I wasn't sure when I could be here to help watch him, I would have said to reduce as well, now if I was sure I was going to be here to watch over them then yes. stall without feeding retest and post the results. Its just that this forum doesn't have the same experienced man power as TR to always be able to have someone watching out for our newbies with low numbers, I'm pretty much it over here most days and nights.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Thanks - both of you. You have both been extremely helpful in your advice. I just need to know you are on the same page. Its a nerve wracking ride and I am relying on this board as I have put my vet's advice aside.

Mel - you mean you are not up 24/7? lol! Actually my plan is to feed test shoot and go back to bed if Silver will let me.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Actually the order is Test, Feed, Shoot. You need a fasting number for your preshot .

And unfortunately you probably always will get slightly conflicting info between Relaxed and TR as they are two different protocols. If we completely agreed there wouldn't be two forums. Both protocols share similarities but also differences

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

That's what I meant - am tired....I shoot as his nose is stuck into his food.

I'm never sure who is following TR or the Relaxed method really. I am learning some, but most I don't know.

Not seen Aine lately - she ok?

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

I understand that Mel...that's why I had said it's not necessarily a No shoot number...it's more of a "See if there's someone around to help" number...at least until you've got enough data to really understand how Silver is going to do...right now, you don't, so if he's below 150 and you HAVE to shoot now,(you can't stall or nobody is around that can stay with you until it's totally safe) I'd stick with what I said earlier....either skip or shoot a reduced dose

The first rule is to always be safe.

I agree with Mel too...if you're looking for help and nobody is online here in Relaxed, post over in Health and/or TR with your link here (so everything stays in one thread)

Mel is the pro at Relaxed protocol Juliet...You can't get better than her! Too bad we can't clone her so we'd have one Mel here all the time....LOL

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

She's in the process of moving houses so may not have internet service or the computer maybe packed

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Thanks Chris. And yes, I think a lot of people on Relaxed wish they could clone Mel!
Mel - I hope you switch off sometimes and get to spend time with your DH and your furry gang!

Am about to go do his +3 - I am hoping to do a +5 but my eyes are drooping. Maybe I will decide when I see the number.

zzzzzz

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Ok - thought she had been quiet on the board lately. I need my iPhone when I am not at my computer - this girl is a Facebook addict!

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Thanks Chris there are days I'd love to clone myself just to get more done . Lol

Yeah I have a rep for breaking my toys. ( broken diabetic is one in remission)

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Lol I broke up with Facebook years ago. Might check it once a day or every couple days just to check up on my kids and grandkids.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver AMPS 10.2; PMPS 7.8; +1 9.9;

Well I guess my shooting 0.5 stopped him playing in the grass today but he had a fine old time swimming in the lagoon. Think its safe to head to bed and his poor ears will have to suffer a curve tomorrow. I think he likes the peace he gets during the week!! When I'm doing a curve do I just do the +2, +4, +6, +8, +10 and the preshots or should I test in the next cycle after his evening preshot as well?

Thankfully no peeing outside the box today. I wonder what makes him decide the floor over the box and vice versa. Thank heaven for puppy pads.

Night all.

Juliet and Silver (and sister Sasha)

 

Re: 11/21 Silver LIGHTS OUT 6.0 (108)

Night night hon.

I'll jump on as soon as I have my kids fed tomorrow morning to check on you both.

Yeah I do switch off every once and awhile. Lol but I'm still a mother hen with the babies here.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/21 Silver LIGHTS OUT 6.0 (108)

Thanks Mel. Altho I don't think he'll be low tomorrow after me reducing his dose tonight. I may even see a yellow preshot for a change. Hoping to avoid seeing black red or pink as my vet seems to think I'm doing a ten day trial ignoring her dosing advice really looking forward to the big fat grin when she sees he's done well on less insulin.

Got the ketone sticks I ordered in the mail today. Dunno how I will get a test as it's hit or miss if he uses the puppy pads or litter tray. I don't want to discourage him using the tray by putting foreign litter in it.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver LIGHTS OUT 6.0 (108)

so happy Silver is doing better.
i use s blood ketone meter since Tibbs is ketone prone. it's def easier than trying to catch them in the litter box (but sadly a little more expensive) since my boy is ketone prone i have to do it. here it is in case you need to get one.
it does glucose too but i just use for ketones
i set up the relion micro for glucose and the nova max for ketones , then use the same ear stick to do both.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0050Z48I ... SY200_QL40

 

Re: 11/21 Silver LIGHTS OUT 6.0 (108)

Sniffing the breath is a supplemental method of monitoring. A breath smell of fruit or nail polish remover can indicate 2 of the 3 types of ketones which may be formed.

 

Re: 11/21 Silver LIGHTS OUT 6.0 (108)

Thanks Nadine. I'm not really worried as his numbers are low now but as I have the strips and am home all day I will try and catch him doing his business.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS 27.5 (495)

So disappointed to wake up to a red number this morning. But when I took the reading, I was horrified we might be back in the black. I guess I should have shot the 1u after all last night. How many days is this going to set him back for? Is there much point me doing a curve today as he's going to spend the whole day trying to come down from this high. Grrrrr.

I so wanted the vet to see nice blues, yellows and greens when she checked in.

Mel - should I do the curve anyways? I guess his AMPS on Tuesday and Wednesday also started off in red but came down to nice blues. He might surprise us yet.

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS 27.5 (495)

I'd go ahead and do a curve, but maybe instead of a full curve, just do a mini-curve (test every 3 hours instead of every 2)

There's no such thing as too much data, so I'd go ahead and get it while you can

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19;

Sorry hon,

I'm running really late this morning. I planned on logging in much sooner than this. :sad:

I agree with Chris grab the data when you can get it, actually running a curve today will help figure out how long it is going to take him to shake the reduced + late shot off. But you can do either if you want always, either a full or a mini, doesn't really matter.Just the more of his patterns we can catch on the weekends when you can test his ears off the easier it is to keep him safe during the week and still let you sleep at night. Then once you learn him and what he does when, even on the weekends you can ease up on the testing because you will know when you NEED to test, and when its just a Hey what the heck, you're here, I'm here lets see where you're at buddy test. :lol:

Right now with him everything is a new learning experience for you and us both, this is how we figure out exactly what music the cat is playing, so we know how we need to step in response when we see a certain pattern forming. And don't feel bad Autumn is right up there with Silver this morning, but with her it's because 1) she didn't hold her last reduction in dose, and 2) because I gave a fur shot last night, and through years of testing her I know she will clear it fast and should be right back down again by later tonight or tomorrow. Now we need to find out how Silver wants to clear this glitch. But it has already told us that if you aren't so late with a shot that it's going to mess with your very tight window to shoot in the mornings during the week, that you can shoot a full dose and he'll be fine.

Now to explain why so high. When you give a late shot it acts as a reduction in dose, because more of the shed is used to make up for it not being topped off in time. Remember when I was talking about how it's like a funnel? And it's not only how much you pour in, but also how fast? Well if you're late pouring the next batch of water into our imaginary funnel, more water is going to run out the bottom before we pour in the next batch of water, so even when we give a full dose late, part of that full dose goes to refilling the shed, before it can be used by Silver to keep his BGs low. Now if you also reduce the dose, you are now pouring the water in late, causing the level at the top to sink further from the top, but you are pouring less in so by the time you pour in the next batch of water the level is even lower. Or more of the dose just given is going to replace what was used of the shed, so even less is usable by Silver to keep himself in lower numbers. Does that make sense?

Now reverse is true if for some reason you have to give an early shot, or you are seriously late with a shot, like finding the syringe on the counter still loaded two hours after you should have shot(guilty as charged ), and there is no flipping way you can roll it back 30 minutes per day to get back on the right track. Here is where you want to reduce the dose, because more of the shed will have been used, but you are adding more back in before 12 hours are up to either keep you on schedule or get you back on schedule.

The rule of thumb is late shot acts as a dose decrease, early shot acts as a dose increase.

As quickly as Silver reacted to his various dose changes so far I would guess he is going to be right back down in the lagoon again before the weekend is over, but right now that is all it is a guess, Silver is the one that truly has to tell us.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19;

Hi Mel,
I actually wasn't late with my shot last night - I thought I was going to be but I was right on time. I looked at his last few days and his pattern is to be higher in the morning preshot - usually red or pink so I dont think I've upset his shed or system at all. I will do a full curve today and we can look again at night....we're only seeing pink again as its been a week since I've been home in the day to test and he's probably always been pink/yellow in the early part of the curve. I think we are still on target with blues for later today. For some reason his daytime curve is higher than his evening curve. I've noticed that pattern for a while.

About to do his +4 - I am guessing I will see yellow.

Juliet and Silver.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19;

Aha! Yeah then you should have shot the whole dose, and you only gave .5 right? Sorry still not real wide awake yet, didn't sleep real well last night and got to bed late as well so there is WAY too much blood in my caffeine system. :lol: So in effect you gave him a half dose correct? Just trying to refresh a very foggy memory at the moment. I swear I'll be sharper here as soon as the coffee kicks in..lol

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19;

Yes I should have - lol - but I actually listened to you when you said No Shoot was 150 ;-)

Yup, its time for my second cup of too.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Okay so we're at 8.3 at +4 so I'm guessing he might be doing what he's been doing all week while I've been working away at the office.

His nadir must be green surely....

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19;

And right now that is good, because we don't know how he is going to react, and you didn't know and I wasn't around to jump on to help and didn't know when I would be.

And most importantly he was safe. That is always the top priority. And you learned something new, so not totally a bummer. Much better a couple days too high than a moment too low.

Every glitch that happens is a lesson to learn from, so when it happens or is about to happen you know what to do. It gives you a little more piece of the puzzle that is Silver.

You know you've heard about the special bond that grows between a sugarcat and their caregiver, well there is something else that happens once you've been owned by one. You learn cats in general like you've never done before and I don't care how many cats you've been owned by. I know I sure did, and I don't think there has ever been a time in my life even as a child there were less than 8 cats in the house, as my mom bred and showed Himalayans and Persians when I was little. You start to notice little things that you never really paid attention to before, because of working so close with Silver, you'll understand Sasha better as well. Just remember to watch him as a whole cat as well as a set of numbers.

And above all we're human and fallible, life happens, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have on hand at the split second the decision needs to be made.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Nice come back Silver!!!! This may prove to be very interesting to see.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Well he just peed on the floor - on the puppy pad - so I, armed with my ready ketostix grabbed at it and wrapped the puppy pad round the stick before it all dried in. I think I got the stick good and wet. Now, its the first time I did this so which end do you dip - I am guessing the bit with the pale pink end. So I did that and it got wet but didn't change color. I take it that's a good thing?

Seriously - I never know what to say when my colleagues ask me what I did at the weekend - hmmm, well I chased my cat's pee, bled him several times in the day and jumped for joy when I saw low numbers. I think "get a life" might be in their vocabulary so I just say "nothing much". LOL!!

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

I think he's on the way to having a nice curve. I know he tends to drop fast but its seems to be more gradual - red to pink to blue.....then .....green??

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Well Christmas wouldn't be Christmas without a cat or two....finished putting up my decor with Silver and Sasha's help. Mel, now you get a picture of how big Sasha is... she used to be such a dainty little calico. I love the fact that their markings are love hearts. A friend of mine pointed that out to me when they were kittens.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Oh Juliet they are beautiful girls! I have a grey calico, Patches, that is grey, white and butterscotch. Until her, I never knew they came in those colors, vet told me that's what she was. I thought all calico looked like yours. :lol: I've always loved the calico colors. Had a few over the years. Patches has a tortie pattern, but as a tri-color, she's calico. Go figure, I always get the strange animals! :lol:

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Ooooh, well I think Silver might take offence at being called a girl but he is handsome ;-) and I wont tell him!
I love calico cats, their colourings are so pretty.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

oh Silver, I'm sorry, thought you were a calico too! ohmygod_smile :lol: Just goes to show, he's just too pretty to be a boy! (When my son was a baby, total strangers would say, "What a beautiful baby GIRL!" Even though he was dressed in a totally BLUE onesie that had an embroidered "His Highness" on the chest! :lol: Go figure!)

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3

Lol!

Well we are swimming in the lagoon again at +6. Silver doesnt seem to have been too much affected by my half dose last night.
Mel, do you think I will see lower or is +6 usually the nadir??

Juliet and Silver

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2

Happy Caturday Juliet and Silver!....and I'd better include Sasha..don't want any hurt feelings!!

Just an observation on this morning's high....I wouldn't be surprised if after you went to bed last night, Silver dropped much lower overnight and this morning's icky red is a bounce. Most cats do go lower at night than they do during the day

As quickly as he's breaking it is another clue to help fill in the puzzle that is Silver...You may have actually done the best thing last night giving only .5

It's possible that 1 unit is too much and you might need to back it down to .75 (which is another reason why we suggest getting some syringes with half unit markings...you might be able to eyeball .5 pretty well, but those .75 and .25 are awful!)

As for your question "Is +6 his nadir"....Another fun part of this dance is there are no definite answers to that one...Each cat is going to have a different time they "usually" nadir, but the time they nadir can also change quite frequently. At this point, I'd say he "usually" nadirs by +5 or +6 but we're still working on limited data

Isn't this fun??....LOL

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2

I'll get half unit markings when I next need syringes. Not in the budget right now. actually Chris he is always high and in Reds at preshot. Yesterday's blue was unusual. I don't think he ever went off track. Don't think I should be changing his dose at all this weekend unless Mel says so as his dose has not been stable since he was diagnosed.


Think he needs stability. Will see what Mel says at the end of the day.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2

I wasn't suggesting a dose change....I was just making an observation for Mel to consider as she continues to advise you

She's the best at Relaxed and I know she'll never steer you wrong

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2

I think he's doing pretty well at 1u actually. Hoping to see more greens down the line which wont happen (I don't think) if we lower. I think his little body is just getting used to the 1u after being up at 2u.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2

I think he's doing much better on 1 unit too!

You had been concerned at being able to show your vet that the SLGS was the better option (instead of listening to her)

I think if you look at the last few days since you started, you see much more blue (and occasional green) now compared to the colors you were getting when you were trying it "her way". Hopefully you're going to be able to show her that Silver IS doing better this way (we won't know for sure until the full 10 days is up, but he sure looks better to me!)

Would be great if it would make her interested in learning more about how to care for any future patients she has. You could be responsible for helping a lot more cats in the future if she does decide to learn more

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2; +8=9.1

Having a hard time getting blood from his ears today. His left ear has always been harder to get anything from but today both ears giving me nothing. Warming the ear with the hotbag. I think Silver likes it when I'm at work as his ears get left alone!

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2; +8=9.1

juliet
they are beautiful cats ......and uhhhhh handsome. lol

 

Re: 11/22 Silver - AMPS=27.5; +2=19; +4=8.3; +6=6.2; +8=9.1

Thanks Nadine :lol:

Mel - given his curve today - just one more test to do - I am guessing we are sticking at 1u for the next week right?

Juliet

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4

I have got to slow down when I'm reading

I thought you said you were warming Silver's ears with a hotdog!! :lol:

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4

:lol: :lol: maybe that might work better....seriously upset today with the mess I am making of his poor ears. Its been so easy the last week and today...not a drop. AND we are in yellow numbers for his +10 so I am kicking myself for not having given the full dose last night. I just hope it doesn't take too many days to settle again.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4

It can help to use the NeoSporin w/ pain relief after the test is done, plus apply a bit of direct pressure on the area afterwards to reduce bruising and scabbing.

And you can try the paw pads, too, to give the ears a break, if you want.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4

LOL haha_smiley haha_smiley

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMP 21.9

Well I guess this wasn't such a great curve. Really messed up last night with the reduced dose. Next time I'll shoot anyways.

Will do a +2 and a LIGHTS OUT at +4 and hopefully this won't have set him back too much :-(

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

it's ok Juliet. better to be safe. he's doing great.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

Sorry was rearranging furniture and moving the computer today, and of course to get DH's help I had to wait until after the football game. :roll: I'm actually kind of torn, .5u might even be a better dose for Silver, as I'm leaning toward Chris's suggestion that the higher numbers this morning could be from a bounce from going lower overnight last night, but also we need to let him settle somewhere. Let's go ahead and keep him at 1u for a few more days. Now I know Canadian Thanksgiving and US Thanksgiving are different days, but not sure whose is first..So are you working a full week this week? If yes, hold him at 1u for this week and we'll just see how he settles out.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

Yes I'm working a full week...I would really like to try and give him somewhere to settle like you said. Given his pattern the last few days, he hasnt dropped much below 6 - how could it have been a bounce today? His general pattern is to be in the red for AMPS right? He didnt bounce after going into green either. Are you sure he bounced??? He had levelled out til I messed up with the half unit last night.

And yes, Canadian thanksgiving is in October...but as I'm Scottish, we don't celebrate thanksgiving at all so its an unusual holiday that I dont tend to celebrate. I hope Silver doesnt go low on Thursday as no-one will be on the board right?

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

There is always someone around. I was more checking to see if like us here in the US had Thursday & Friday off work so you'd be able to grab a few more random spot checksbefore next weekend. But no biggie. Just watching our 10 day window with your vet. .

Its exactly because his pattern is the same, he's not dropping as fast as he was but he's still dropping fast and steep for how Lantus works. It's that going from reds and pinks to blues and even greens in a single cycle that's setting off the swing back up. This is where just having limited testing during the week makes figuring out bounce vs. a smidge too of a dose yet.

But since you're working all week don't sweat we know he's at least safe on 1u and if its just a bounce he should settle some at least.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

I may check in during the morning and evening. I'll be at a friends during the afternoon.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

Hi Juliet

Lovely photos of your kitties.

I will be about on Thursday and although I am new I can hopefully help hold your hand during any low numbers. I have had a few practical experiences of it. Sorry not the best offer but will do my best for you and Silver if need be I'm in the UK so not sure how that ties up with Canada.

Best wishes

Sarah

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

So what's our overall aim? I'm getting more confused by the day. I know he's "ok" on 1u but I want him more than just ok. All this talk of bouncing is confusing because I think we are guessing. We don't know what goes on in the night. I know he drops faster than the way Lantus usually works but ECID right. They're not all going to respond the same. . Am I one of the only ones on the forum that work full time? I feel you are all saying I can't do the best for Silver because I work.

I'm not meaning to sound off but I'm so frustrated. And I just tested and he's at 22 at +2 - he's never higher at +2. I don't know how much more of this I can take, I really don't. If he rides high again tonight he'll spend all of tomorrow catching up again. I did as you guys said and went down to 1u...I don't think I can justify to my vet putting him down to 0.5 when she wants him at 2u so I really hope that's not what you're saying.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +2=22 - Having a BAD day. Am upset

Silver did have a great middle of the day. I did a partial fur shot last night which is sort of like a reduced dose for one cycle. I'm feeling your pain today too. The reduced dose can impact later cycles.

This Canadian will also be around next week. Speaking of which, Neosporin is not available in Canada, but you can get the Polysporin Complete gel with pain relief. It's the one with the black and gold markings on the box. A bit of that on the ears does help them heal quickly.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +2=22 - Having a BAD day. Am upset

Thanks Wendy. Guess Im just having an off day.

I have germolene I brought over from the UK. I think that's similar. I'll try it.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver LIGHTS OUT +17.5 Having a BAD day. Am upset

So according to this I should be aiming for blues - around 5.5-10 (100-180) for most of the day - pretty much what he did yesterday - as I cant keep good control during the week as those on the TR forum can right?

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood ... guidelines

I need to know where I am aiming. I don't think I will ever shoot greens - definitely not during the week when I am gone.

The SLGS also says "If the lowest point of the curve is between 90 and 149 mg/dl (5.0 and 8.2 mmol/L), keep the dose the same"....so I guess that's what I'll do for now until the next curve next weekend. Give him time to settle at one dose. I have to make some decisions for myself and if these are way off beam, Mel please let me know. My vet said this disease is not micromanageable and I think I get what she was saying. This newbie is done in. :dizcat

 

Re: 11/22 Silver LIGHTS OUT +17.5 Having a BAD day. Am upset

Just a quick note

I'd never heard of Germolene so was looking it up...it looks like the active ingredient is Phenol which is very toxic in cats.

Might want to check and if that's the active ingredient, don't use it on Silver

 

Re: 11/22 Silver LIGHTS OUT +17.5 Having a BAD day. Am upset

Good to know. Thx.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver LIGHTS OUT +17.5 Having a BAD day. Am upset

Well she is right we can't micromanage it, because we are dealing with a living breathing creature, who have feelings and emotions which are variables we can't control. With the limited ability to test because you're working during the week, regulation is yes, probably the best you are going to get for him. But I've seen cats go into remission with being regulated.

Regulation numbers are preshots in the low 200's to the high 100's with nadirs in the 50-120 range. while on insulin

Tightly regulated is most of the day in the 50-120 range while on insulin

Remission (OTJ) is spending most of the time in the 50-120 range without insulin.

Nothing wrong with a well regulated kitty.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

You do the best you can. Some cats get into a stable pattern and remain on insulin forever. They resume normal behavior and they look happy and healthy. And that's OK, too.

It can take a minimum of 3-5 days on a dose to see how it is working for Silver. You've needed to drop and skip because the glucose is coming down quickly, so it hasn't looked stable. It takes some trial and error to find an optimal dose.

Just a note: we eyeball 0.75 units, or eyeball fat or skinny doses by drawing in a hair more or less insulin. Some folks even dose in drops by practicing with a syringe until they can get the same number of equal sized drops from 0.5 units. Those are just some ideas you may find helpful in the future, if not now.

 

Re: 11/22 Silver +10=13.4; PMPS 21.9

Thanks, I will be getting the half unit syringes next weekend...that might help.