12/17 Pimp AMPS 174; +2 186; +3 148: +8 106; PMPS 239; +2 254 +4.5 305

Status
Not open for further replies.
Andy & Pimp

Andy & Pimp

Member Since 2015
I expected a longer bounce after yesterday...

:coffee::coffee: Good morning, everyone.

Nice blue start for P, but he will be alone from +4 to +7 or 8 so I reduced by 20% this morning. Paws crossed he can stay down:cool:
 
Thanks all. I put some MC food in the freezer just in case I need to leave it out for him, but it looks like we should have a nice blue cycle today. I'll probably just leave him with a snack of LC when I'm on my way out the door.
Ordered the Petsafe5 last night...it was a good excuse to get my chewy.com order over $50 for free shipping. Then I got 20% off for signing up for autoship (1 tube of k+, monthly, big repeating order eh?).
So in my head at least, I only paid $25 for the feeder :smuggrin:

Wishing safe surfs to all kitties:cat:
and good days to all beans:joyful:
 
Just to toss out a thought: when you shoot a reduced dose, often...because of the depot...the effects of the reduced dose will not be seen until late in the cycle or even the next cycle. It's highly possible the PMPS you are seeing are due to the reduced dose from this morning but let's hope it's just a quick blip.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Just to toss out a thought: when you shoot a reduced dose, often...because of the depot...the effects of the reduced dose will not be seen until late in the cycle or even the next cycle. It's highly possible the PMPS you are seeing are due to the reduced dose from this morning but let's hope it's just a quick blip.
Click to expand...
I am hoping that's the case! My other thought is today was the "dip" in his bounce from yesterday? Seems like he comes down a bit and then goes back up when he bounces.
I doubt he got into low numbers today. It didn't seem like there was much momentum on the +2 and 3 readings, and I left some 8% food out when I was gone just in case.
His +2 tonight is encouraging so hopefully he will be back to blues in the am.

Honored to have you stop by my condo, Marje. :):) You and Gracie (and Mike and Lupita!) are legends here. You have done so much to contribute to the Board and helped so many people. May Gracie live forever through all of us here.
cat_wings>o
 
I don't think he got into low numbers today. He wasn't dropping too quickly before you left. I agree with Marje - because the depot keeps on giving at the regular dose's rate, if you want to really influence a current cycle, most people find they need to give at least a 1/3-1/2 reduction in dose. Otherwise it probably plays out just like it would've with the regular dose. Then the influence of the reduction might actually be seen later.

Overall Pimp is looking very good! Looks like he's getting stretches of 4 hours or so at a time of nice green numbers on it. You're doing a great job with him!
 
Andy & Pimp said:
I am hoping that's the case! My other thought is today was the "dip" in his bounce from yesterday? Seems like he comes down a bit and then goes back up when he bounces.
Click to expand...
It's common to see a bounce start, then numbers come down a wee bit, and then see a moderate to high number and then the break. We call this a "high before a break". While Pimp's pattern doesn't look like the "typical" high before a break, it could certainly be his version of it.

Andy & Pimp said:
Honored to have you stop by my condo, Marje. :):) You and Gracie (and Mike and Lupita!) are legends here. You have done so much to contribute to the Board and helped so many people. May Gracie live forever through all of us here.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for saying that, Andy, although the honor is always mine if I can share what I've learned. Gracie is the legend....she taught me what I know and I was just privileged to be along with her. It's just been two weeks today and your words mean a lot to me as it's been another tough day wrapping my arms around the thought of her being gone. :bighug:
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Overall Pimp is looking very good! Looks like he's getting stretches of 4 hours or so at a time of nice green numbers on it. You're doing a great job with him!
Click to expand...
Thanks Julie:) I was wondering if I should really be steering those green cycles with MC the way I have. Seems like for right now I just want him to spend as much time in the higher range greens to try to prevent a long bounce. I will probably try giving his regular 5% next time and see what happens. I'm lucky to have a lot of time at home the next few months.
julie & punkin (ga) said:
because the depot keeps on giving at the regular dose's rate, if you want to really influence a current cycle, most people find they need to give at least a 1/3-1/2 reduction in dose. Otherwise it probably plays out just like it would've with the regular dose.
Click to expand...
I figured that big of a reduction would set him back more?
One thing (of many) I have yet to understand about Lantus is the exact effect of the depot and the bid dose. I understand that skipping or changing the bid dose affects the size of the depot for the next few cycles, and I sort of understand the science behind it. Would I have been hetter off reducing last night and shooting normal dose this morning? That seems risky.
I think what screws me up is when you get a super low number, you can skip a shot and then numbers come up. So there's got to be some immediate impact of a reduced dose. What am I missing?
 
Andy & Pimp said:
I think what screws me up is when you get a super low number, you can skip a shot and then numbers come up. So there's got to be some immediate impact of a reduced dose. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Can you point out an example? I'm not sure exactly what you mean here.

As far as this morning, you've got 2 factors you can control that influence blood sugar - well 3 if you count exercise. But for your purpose, you could control his insulin dose and his food. In your situation this morning, I'd have changed the food rather than the dose. Once you get into using the Petsafe autofeeder (which I absolutely LOVED) you'll have more control over when he eats when you're going to be gone.

With the food, you can control the volume of food, the carb content and the timing. Which of those things does what with a cat is going to be individual - so you'll have to tinker around and see how he responds to each of those things.

For today, if I'd seen the +3/148 and knew I was going out, I'd have put food in the autofeeder to open at +5 and put a larger quantity of punkin's regular low carb in it. I could count on him always having an appetite because of his acromegaly, so I had total confidence that if there was food in the feeder, he would get it and eat 100% of it.

Some cats aren't like that - for example some cats will just graze and nibble at their food. For a cat like that you might be able to put down a dish when you leave and you could count on the kitty eating a little here and there over the next hours. On the other hand, some cats will ignore food and just nap - I'd be more worried about a cat like that eating when you wanted them to.

If it had been a more significant drop at +3, say 100, then I'd have used a higher carb food because I knew that punkin's nadir was pretty regularly at +5.5. I might have fed him at +3 as well, and set the timed feeder to open at +4 and +4.5 as well. Molly/Skooter bought 2 of those feeders - I wish I'd thought of that when i went back to work. My husband and i went a bit crazy driving back home from our jobs to check on him more than a few times.

If the preshot were really low, you always have the option of skipping the shot too. Safety has to come first, so whatever you think you have to do to keep him safe.

I wouldn't have reduced his shot last night to be gone for a few hours today, however. You might find some other tips that are helpful in the sticky about working and following Tight Reg.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Can you point out an example? I'm not sure exactly what you mean here.
Click to expand...
Say a kittie was in the 30's last cycle and only up to 51 at shot time. Many would skip the dose, and numbers would continue to rise. The depot doesn't drag them back down, it seems like it needs that "push" from the bid dose. If you reduce, the push is smaller, why aren't the effects less?
Am I thinking about it all wrong?

As for food, I'm trying to pack weight onto him right now and basically feeding every 2-3 hrs. He won't eat big meals having been a dry food grazer for so long. So really the only option I have is carb content.
 
Andy & Pimp said:
Say a kittie was in the 30's last cycle and only up to 51 at shot time. Many would skip the dose, and numbers would continue to rise. The depot doesn't drag them back down, it seems like it needs that "push" from the bid dose.
Click to expand...

Often the reason numbers rise after a "low number event" - is that a bounce is starting in response to the low numbers. Whether or not you shot the next ps, the kitty would probably have high numbers anyway.

It's not that you can't change a cycle by what you shoot - you can. But in my experience, you need to reduce the dose by 1/3 at a minimum to see a change in the cycle right after you shoot.

In other words, if the normal dose is 1u, and I wanted to make sure my cat didn't drop into low numbers (assuming the cat was fairly flat coming into that preshot, not having a bounce-clearing cycle) - I wouldn't shoot more than 0.6u. And honestly, if it were me, I'd give a 1/2 dose. Wendy has seen with Neko that a reduction of 1/3 is enough to interrupt what would've happened. I usually reduced punkin's doses by 50% if I needed to interrupt the normal cycle.

On the "shooting and handling low numbers" sticky, for those following Tight Reg, if one is faced with a low preshot one option is to give a token dose. Somewhere I have seen a "token" dose described as 10%.

My only point is that reducing a tiny amount is probably not going to make too much of a change in the cycle. But . . . ECID - you know Pimp best and if it works for you then go for it!
 
P is looking good on his ss!
this depot has me baffled--Dre isn't following any of the lantus rules-
lowered to 1 unit and still dropped from 343 to 166 in 3 hours--I skipped yesterday PM and this morning to drain some depot as he was dropping to low-(and I was going insane ) :banghead:
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
My only point is that reducing a tiny amount is probably not going to make too much of a change in the cycle. But . . . ECID - you know Pimp best and if it works for you then go for it!
Click to expand...
Oh trust me I'm learning as I go. Today was an experiment...looking like a bit of a failed one. It seemed to keep him right where I wanted during the day but I didn't think about what would happen the next cycle. Like I said I'll try his regular food next time he's lower and see what happens, and if I do ever need to seriously influence a cycle I'll know to take a bigger reduction. Thanks for your insight Julie:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top