12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74 +3.75/62

Good evening LL!

First, it was great to hear from you Ann, Rhiannon & Marje - thanks for stopping by! :YMHUG:

Didn't think I'd get to post so soon, but I'm over my head & need some good experienced advice from the LL community!

Tigger's 12/29 post

Tigger had been on his historically highest does of 2.25u till 12/27 PM, after he earned a reduction 12/26 PM & I shot through the bounce 12/27 AM. This time I only reduced the dose by 1/8 unit (.19mm) since Tigger has historically not held reductions well. This is my first time doing this rather than taking the full .25u reduction.

12/28 PM Tigger dropped to a 43 at PM +3. I didn't reduce the dose that time because I felt it was the depot shed (2 cycles after the reduction) causing the drop & not the dose.

12/29 Tigger also dropped pretty quickly into the green, but we stayed above 50. Today he's been having a very gentle drop, but normally he's coming up at this time, and he's hanging right around 60. At 5:45PM (AM+10.5) he was at 60 & he's still at 60 at AM+11

Tigger has a history of some large drops & often doesn't get much of a food bump. :roll: I feed him 5% @ PMPS, +1, 2, & 3.

If Tigger stays at 60 am I safe to shoot this low? I've not shot below a 72 before - never had to! ohmygod_smile Also, at what point should I not shoot? If I shoot a 60, should I feed 9% or higher to start? I can test & normally do frequently - I often test every 30 minutes because Tigger can drop 140 points in an hour. Thanks so much for any input - I really appreciate the experience in this situation!

PS - on the other side oft his - Tigger's doing great!!!

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger AMPS/332 +2/270 +6/120 +9/63 +10/74 + 11/60

It's not that you can't shoot a 60, but you've had basically an all-day drop. It's really important to take reductions when they are earned and i'm wondering if you've got an overfull depot going.

Here's Marje's post on Reductions

It does look like tigger does a bounce from the greens most cycles, so i can see why you're trying to keep a high enough dose to knock off the high numbers. I think I would try to hold him up with carbs so that he doesn't earn a reduction as well.

If you are going to be home and monitoring him, know how to bring him up, you have strips and high carb, AND he either stays flat from now until the shot time, or he rises, i think you're ok going ahead with the same dose.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger AMPS/332 +2/270 +6/120 +9/63 +10/74 + 11/60

Hi Suzanne - good to hear from you and about Tigger again. Please pass on some scritches from me to him.

I agree with Julie. As long as he's flat or on a rise, you are good to go. If you feed a higher %carb you'll either keep him up to flatten those bounces or he'll tell you he really wants a reduction.

I like how he seems to be clearing bounces fairly quickly now and not bouncing as high as he used to.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger AMPS/332 +2/270 +6/120 +9/63 +10/74 + 11/60

Thank you so much, Julie & Wendy. I'm going to test again right now, but I'm ok with the 75 (whew!)

Julie - :?: should I have taken the reduction from Tigger's drop on 12/28 (2 cycles following his reduction)? I thought I'd given Tigger all his earned reductions. But - I also thought that if there is a drop below 50 within a few cycles after a reduction its due to the depot & a reduction isn't earned when it's due to a depot shed.

Thanks also Julie for including Marje's Reductions page. One glaring point she states I didn't know is

Wendy, thanks for the % advice - you're right - I'm getting a little mixed message here. If we'd had a repeat of yesterday, I would've felt Tigger was going for a reduction - today I think is the real dose talking maybe? Guess we'll find out around +2-4 :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll always be grateful for you hanging with me the PM of Tigger's surgery where we couldn't get him to stay up - don't want to repeat that!!!

:?: I'm wondering if Tigger stays low tonight but not below 50, should I go ahead & drop him the remaining 1/8u (.19mm) to 2.0u? What do you think?

It's great hearing from you guys - I miss you all!

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78

:lol: Not Julie but I hope you don't mind if I respond. I wouldn't have reduced after that 43 that cycle because it was likely depot. He was also clearing a bounce that cycle and they can have a little more ooommppff behind them when they clear.

The protocol does allow for three drops between 40-50 before the dose is reduced but then it recommends a 0.25u reduction. The reason it does that is because it's aggressive. So I think if you have to work at keeping him above 50 another cycle, then you might want to consider going ahead and reducing down the rest of the 0.25u.

I like how fast he's clearing!

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78

Hi Marje!!! Great to hear from you, too

Tigger is clearing faster - that 2.25u. dose is kind of his springboard. And - we always seem to have to spring back up to it eventually :lol: :lol:

I was reading & re-reading your Reductions post - menopause brain - info leaks back out almost as fast as it goes in ohmygod_smile.

Thanks for the input & clarification - I didn't realize I asked "just" Julie - ohmygod_smile again!

With Tigger I'm not sure I'll ever do the "3 times between 40-50" option - I did that once & it was pretty nasty the 2nd cycle in. Personally, for Tigger I'd prefer to shave the dose or take the full .25u reduction. I'm also not sure about shooting through the bounce anymore - for Tigger - unless he's got a high 300's after the low. I agree with you - too scary nailbite_smile!

Well, time to test Tigger & see what kind of night we're going to have!

Sure did miss you!

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78

marje is wise.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78

So is Julie

It's good that you realize there comes a time when you can't shoot through the bounce because he's clearing bounces quickly.

And I don't think of it as menopause brain. I just think of it as an "academic pause". :lol:

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94

I like 'academic pause' - AND I think ALL of you are wise

Tigger says its 'academic paws'. :lol:

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94

And Tigger appears to be the most clever :lol: Not much of a food spike. :?

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96

I won't tell Tigger that - it'll go to his head :roll:

I agree - very little bump - AND I'm feeding all 9% - but - at least its a bump.

I'm a-thinkin' I should take the rest of the shaved reduction tomorrow AM (to 2.0u) - even if Tigger's numbers don't get nasty tonight. Hopefully they won't get too nasty since we're pre-empting with higher % carbs. But - that sort of defeats the purpose of the higher dose. :roll:

That part in Marje's Reductions post about taking a reduction if you have to work to stay above 50 - just struck a cord. Marje is wise

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93

Well let's just say I learned the hard way that if you are working hard to keep kitty out of the 40s, he/she is probably going to earn a reduction soon any way. And I'm all for keeping my girl out of the 30s if I can anticipate it.

I think you better get on your Jammie's and brew the

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93

No - This old bird gets wiggy with PM java.

But - will jump into jammies. DM is going to bed soon & it will be all quiet. Ahhhhhhhh.......

PM+2/93 - not too scary yet. I like these level #s - we don't usu. get them, so I don't trust it, but is waaay better than a 70 pt. drop in 0:30!

I agree - 30's = NO FUN. Gracie had a 27 awhile back, right? or was that Mariko's Lucy - or both? :shock:

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93

the low preshot number can be a wonderful opportunity for the whole cycle to flatten out. you're doing a great job monitoring Tigger!

my cousin now says her brain is "loosely arranged." :lol: i only wish i didn't relate so well to that!

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was thinking the higher carb (9% vs 5%) was leveling Tigger out this cycle, but if its the low preshot - why / how does that make it happen & how can we do this again :lol:

Seriously, though, does anyone know that answer??? Or is that one of the Holy Grail answers that we're all on a quest to find?

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74

I took an 'academic pause' with my 'loosely arranged brain' & tested 15 min. late for the PM+3 - we had a drop to 74 from 98. :roll: I should've know I was late when Tigger came out & sat on the table. He has a great tummy timer. Gravy call!

But - we're still doing great! anti-jinx :lol:

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74

why does it happen? hmm, i'm not sure if i know the exact answer for that. i can tell you what happens, but i'm not sure of the exact why.

Lantus and Lev are known for their flat cycles because they last longer in the body, as compared to the older insulins. so you've got a long duration insulin. when a cat becomes re-accustomed to normal numbers, they eventually stop bouncing.

This is the goal of Tight Regulation, to get a cat into normal numbers and keep them there. When that happens then the pancreas can heal and cats can go down the dosing scale.

I suspect all of us think at the beginning that if i shot 1u at 300 and my cat dropped to 100 at the nadir, then that dose will drop my cat 200 points. so if i shoot a 100, the same 1u dose will kill my cat - but it doesn't work that way. If a person is following the TR protocol and monitoring, eventually shooting lower numbers will lead to a flat cycle. in well-regulated cats the blood sugar might only move 10 points in a day.

i just want to make it clear to anyone else reading this, that shooting low is something that is only done when you are ready for it - not for just anyone. so i don't want lurkers to think it's ok to shoot any number. But Suzanne, you've got the data and skills to do this. Look at Twice or Errol's spreadsheets - Twice's OTJ party is today, Errol's on day 8 of the OTJ trial, and you'll see what i'm talking about.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 1.5/96 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74

Thanks for the reply, Julie. I know the leveling question is a difficult one, ECID on top of all the other data. I remember Elian bounced up to almost the very end - Wendy reminded me of that & gave me a resurgence of hope that I still have. I'm going to go read those SSs now.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74 +3.75/

Tigger's only 9 months into this - you absolutely should still have hope for him to go OTJ!!! we've had cats go off at more than 2 years even.

he's looking great tonight.

 

Re: 12/30 Tigger PMPS/78 +1/94 +2/93 +2.5/98 +3.25/74 +3.75/

Thanks for the positive words, Julie. Tigger says thanks for the help, too.

Same-same for Marje & Wendy.

:YMHUG:

Tigger's been giving me the one-eye stare awhile now. The one-eye's slowing closing. I think we're close to complete for tonight. One more test in 0:05, & I think we can call it. Which is good because I'm beat. I-)