? 2/16 Mocha amps 132/+2=88/+3=71/+5=360 hold dose past 7?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Mocha aka Cold Play, Feb 16, 2016.

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  1. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    She has held blue most of 2/15 and into the late night/early am of 2/16. But, when I went to test her @ 4am she did not eat afterward. She has not been as interested in the food the last few days but did come around if it had a piece of the pure bits crumbled on it. I did find a mostly water vomit on her eating station table when I got up. If it is upset stomach, what can I give her?

    My concern: Insulin to be given in a few hours. She is drinking now. But, if she will only eat the pure bits (and I don't have that much of it left....will have to wait til after 9am to get it)
    Can she be given insulin? How much food does she need to have to receive the Lantus @ 8 units?

    She keeps going to her water and drinking. What could be going on?

    This is her best day since dx for an overall lowest count and avoiding a spike.


    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-15-mocha-pmps197-2-238-3-192-4-183.152743/
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  2. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Any chance there's a furball trying to escape? She could be drinking to try and flush it out. If you've got any cat lax or similar it might be worth a try.

    I have trouble getting Vyktor to eat at times due to his mouth issues. For him I shoot the full dose regardless (I'd be skipping or reducing all the time otherwise) and I've found he generally actually runs a little higher with less food on board. I have been caught twice when he's run under the limit and wouldn't eat but resolved that by syringing syrup. Lantus is very gentle. You might consider not offering any more food between now and shot time to try and get her appetite up. Even if she only eats a little (which would indicate she probably will eat more later, especially if she gets the low number hungries) as long as you can monitor I would probably shoot the full dose.
     
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  3. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    do you know about UTI? I am trying to look @ causes and saw this on someone's condo. I saw her go into the box and I was not quick enough to get a strip but I just went in now and there was no wet litter on top, she never covers her stool or urine. If she is blocked then that could be the cause and I need to get her to the vet soon? This may be how I test a new vet because mine is not open til 9 and that won't be good enough. Should I try to syringe more water and try putting her in the box?
     
  4. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    She grooms but not that much and she seldom has a hairball.
     
  5. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    If she has a urinary blockage that is an emergency and warrants an immediate vet trip. Often if that is the problem they will roam around squatting in inappropriate places too and maybe just get small amounts of urine out. There can also be crying out and/or jumping up from a squat like they're surprised (because it hurts). Will she let you feel around her tummy area to see if her bladder feels full?

    Did you see if she was doing a wee squat or a poop squat in the lb? And do you know when she last pooped? Constipation will often go hand in hand with excessive drinking and vomiting.
     
  6. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    and no I wouldn't syringe more water since she's drinking herself and maybe a bit too much since she vomited some back up again.
     
  7. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Not squat and no sign of pain. I did not see your post and gave her some wet syringe and then she tried to eat some wet 1x and I was able to get her to take wet sryinged and she stayed for it for maybe 7 small sryinges. I put her in the box and she left. I do not feel a full bladder. I called an emergency vet and not feeling confident. I said she won't eat her wet, reply "Will she eat her dry?" She can't have dry, I already told them she was diabetic.
     
  8. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    It could be constipation. She typically goes 12 hours apart and I don't think she had one since yesterday am. Cat lax is bad though for the sugar right?

    She is eating on her own the wet food for now.
     
  9. Tara & Ivana (GA)

    Tara & Ivana (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I was just typing and then saw that she's eating, phew!

    I read a post somewhere on here about food and shooting, and that made me rethink my no food=no insulin thoughts, and now I will shoot regardless of whether Ivana has eaten or not. Never had a problem with her going too low purely from not eating. I'll try to find it and tag you.
     
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  10. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Cat lax is fine, although it contains diabetic no nos it doesn't get absorbed so most people find it has no effect on kitties numbers.
     
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  11. Tara & Ivana (GA)

    Tara & Ivana (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Here it is.
     
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  12. carfurby (GA)

    carfurby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I hope Mocha's appy picks up. I'm glad she's eating some for you. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  13. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    She oddly turned away from it and pre dx she would lick it off the tube. I put a small amt on her paw and she licked it. Figure it can't hurt. Trying to buy time. She did eat more wet food and I added more water to it as she was mostly licking the water from it. Still waiting on the litter box. She has gone to lie down now.
     
  14. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    great read as I had not seen this.
     
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  15. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    One other thing to keep in mind is that as a kitty gets into lower numbers, more energy from the food makes it into the cells - which is good.
    So it's not uncommon for a kitty to feel less hungry when the numbers get out of the reds and pinks.
     
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  16. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    you might want to try syringing a full dose, a partial dose probably won't do much to help get things moving if that's what she needs and as you say, it can't hurt.
     
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  17. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    You can use butter, coconut oil or any oil for that matter, or vasoline for constipation. You may want to pick up some Miralax if this is something that is an intermittent problem. However, I would not use Miralax without talking to a vet. Sometimes, constipation is just constipation. Other times, it's a bigger GI issue. Make sure your adding enough water to Mocha's food.

    FWIW, female cats have fewer problems with a urinary blockage than male cats. Male cats' plumbing was not well designed.

     
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  18. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    She keeps drinking more than eating. I gave the insulin with amps 132.....maybe her body is just unaware how to function in the lower range she has been in for a good 24 hours?

    She did lick on her own the cat lax when I offered it again and got a good full dose.

    She is more interested in the pure bits than the wet food so far. I hope she is not sick of it. If she had to go to the gravy canned to get nourishment for a short time would that be ok?

    I wonder if she urinated only on the edge and that is why it was not evident. I will watch her more closely to see what goes on. She has been lying by our front door at the condo on our mat. That is a new behavior. Maybe because the carpet is the warmest there versus mostly wood floors. But, she is not lying in a relaxed position, more like when they are cold. But the house is 70.
     
  19. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    As a cat gets better regulated, appetite decreases.

    When you describe how Mocha is lying, do you mean she's "meatloafing" or something else?
     
  20. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    She smells her wet food and scratches , started a few days ago. scratching scratching.....means don't like the food eh?
     
  21. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Never knew there was a name but that describes the look. Now, she goes to the sliding glass and was lying same way there. But, when I picked her up and opened her preferred window, she wanted to play with the blind string, good sign I think. Still not wanting wet food. Will have to get xtra gravy canned as her numbers are going lower and more pure bites to wade thru this.
     
  22. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Mocha's title and number just now. I understand the concern of not eating and so glad that @Tara & Ivana found that link for you because he clears up misconceptions of not eating and shooting. Here's hoping that she will start to eat soon. Maybe a vet visit would be in order if she doesn't start to eat for you today. If she is in the meatloaf position, she could be in pain. Will she let you pick her up and rub her tummy?
     
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  23. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Scratching the floor, herself? Is she trying to bury her food?

    If the latter, try a different flavor. If she's scratching herself, it may be a food allergy. Many cats are allergic to beef and fish flavors.

    Meatloafing is usually an indication that a cat isn't feeling all that great. If you Google the term on Google images, you may be able to find photos.
     
  24. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Kari - sorry I didn't get your message earlier (I was asleep, I'm a west coaster, and so is Julie). One thing it helps to remember is that even when kitties has to have an anesthesia and go without food, vets will usually suggest a half dose. On the very few days Neko's gone off her food, I've done 1/2 go 2/3 of her dose - depending on whether her regular dose is getting her lowish greens or not.

    Sending eating vines. If you can't find another low carb food to feed her, it's OK to break out something higher carb if she'll eat it. 88 is low for her, at this point in the cycle. I would get a +3 test.
     
  25. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    I just ran to get more of the pure bites and only had one, thankfully there was one! She is now at 71 and is trying to eat her regular wet but does scratch the side of the floor near it. I think a little of the gravy food may even her out and settle his discomfort. Yep...she is really hungry and eating that can well. She is a good can behind at this point so she must have not wanted the typical "menu."
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  26. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Kari, I'm also just getting your message now.

    I found the same with Alex when she was sick. However, it did take me awhile to work up the courage to shooting a full dose when she wouldn't eat. Shooting a half dose, as Wendy suggested, is a good way to start.

    I know we emphasize feeding low carb food only, but a cat has to eat. Feed whatever she'll eat if she won't eat her usual low carb food.

    While I was typing I saw your post saying that she's eating. Yaaaaaaaaaaay!!!
     
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  27. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good news she is eating!
     
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  28. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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  29. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Part of the mystery solved....She FINALLY urinated...no sign of pain and did not take her long when in the box. She then tried to pass a stool and no pain indicated but the stool did not drop in the box but when she came out. Small some wetness to the outside by likely dry to pass. Hope the cat lax will help the next one improve.

    Has anyone used the Iams Purrfect Grain Free saucy canned line? She loves the saucy wild oceanfish & tuna. I just called because I thought this was her rescue food and just learned it only has 3.4% as feed CARB, protein is 10.7%. This is not that much higher than her 2.4% purina one. Maybe a switch is in order since I stocked the other up. (of course).
     
  30. Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

    Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad to see things are improving. If you have to feed the gravy foods, can you try to squeeze the gravy out and stick more with the solids? Can't her, I would think. I hope things keep progressing toward the positive. Mocha is really putting you through your paces.

    Oh, one more thing. Is it the salmon or chicken Pure Bites that's the big hit? Because all my animals who loved the chicken flavor (and that was all of them) also loved canned human chicken. It sure is ow carb and high be helpful in a pinch? (Rosie is the only one I have tried the salmon Pure Bites on and she loves that, too!)
     
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  31. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Since it is only 3% I am contemplating that she may not eat the old food for a time. Figure she is content, and just gave her more and she is out of the greens now. Oh well, she held it very well.

    The only Pure Bites I tried is salmon and our store does not carry much. They had shrimp but I don't think she would eat that. I wish she would eat some human food, like chicken but the two I have now do not care for human food at all. I wish I could recall who mentioned the Pure Bites because it has been a rescue the last day to help her eat.
     
  32. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Kinda crazy day.

    Now, I am looking ahead past her 6th cycle (tonight). I think she should hold this dose awhile longer to recover from the spike of the greens and not overshoot her (literally). If the guide is to keep under 200, her range for yesterday and most of today meets that criteria to "hold." Maybe not 5-7 days but will evaluate after give her time to recover the bounce. Make sense?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  33. Nancy and Scotty

    Nancy and Scotty Member

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    I am trying to send from doctors so hope you get, I think you need to hold for a couple days
     
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  34. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Nice greenage there this morning!!!
    Looking good!!:cool:
     
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  35. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    I agree, let the dust settle.
     
  36. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    If it is IAA, hoping getting close to a turn around dose.
     
  37. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    With the green I would hold the dose a little longer, to see if she comes back to green when the bounce is over. Paws crossed.
     
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  38. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    Just got your message after work, Kari. West coast time and all, you know. I see you've gotten plenty of help!

    I would make dose decisions one cycle at a time in this situation. For now, I'd hold the dose and like Wendy said, see what she gets to when she clears any bounce that results from hitting green today.

    What guide are you referring to to keep her under 200? With Tight Regulation, the goal is to get everything into normal numbers, 50-120 on a human meter.

    What's the news on the vet/potential high dose conditions testing?
     
  39. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    :cool:Looks like a 'save-a-strip' night.
    Unfortunately there is not a turnaround dose for IAA.
    There is however a breaking point being that it is self limiting.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  40. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I saved strips but who knows how low she must have gone! Saw signs of excess thirst (her designated drinking station 1/2 gone) and yet she hit 167 this am, pretty close to yesterday's am. She is going the right way I believe. That is a fast turn! Today will not be a save a strip day for sure. Going thru them like water lately.
     
  41. Mocha aka Cold Play

    Mocha aka Cold Play Well-Known Member

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    Under the http://www.tillydiabetes.net page TR
    Under increase the dose it says:
    "When the cat first begins to have daily nadirs in the normal range of a healthy cat (50-80) and spends significant amounts of time in the range each day, stop increasing the dose and switch to phase 3."

    Under holding the dose (same doc)
    "Try to keep the cat at a dose where the BGs are in the 50-200 range for as much of the day as possible."

    My comment referred to her overall average was under 200 the prior day and the following day until the spike.

    I don't know where the 50-120 is as I looked at docs I printed on TR, there must be yet another one that adds to this mix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
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