2/18 Magnolia PMPS 62 +1, 82, +2 70

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Sara & Magnolia, Feb 18, 2010.

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  1. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    WCR: Back to her old self this morning but we still went to the vet. We really liked this vet and decided to continue seeing her.

    DENTAL: She does need to have dental done ASAP and with lower BG numbers it's now safe to do it. She has severe gingivitis and tartar buildup. They don't do pre-dental x-rays, so these things are not set in stone, but: She has resorptive lesions on 2 teeth and they will do crown amputations on those. Her back teeth (they both look quite bad) will be cleaned and they will look to the x-rays to determine whether they need to be extracted or not. I asked all of Jill's questions and there are only a couple of variations. They do not give pre-dental antibiotics, they give a shot of penicillin before the surgery and send them home on clavamox unless the infection is very bad and then they use clindamyacin. She said the clindamyacin is hard to administer because it tastes bad and it leads to issues of the cat spitting it out or foaming up in the mouth. They use Isoflurane unless you insist on the Sevo, but Sevo is more expensive. They will give her IV fluids during the procedure and monitor her BP with doppler and also monitor her heart rate. They give buprenex before and after the procedure. The estimate is $480 without the extractions of the 2 back teeth. She said extractions can range $30-150/each. This seems reasonable to me, but I don't have much to base it on.

    Any opinions on not giving pre-dental antibiotics?

    I scheduled it for March 2, and unless I can get very creative with my schedule next week, that's when it will be. They could also do it on Feb 23rd and I'd like to do it sooner, but the vet said it's a-ok to wait 11 days. She can't eat past midnight or drink past 7am. Since the drop off time is between 7:30 and 8:30am, I'm supposed to bring her insulin with to the vet and they will give it to her at shot time (9:30am), they'll check her BG beforehand and get a +1 before the procedure. She said that unless she is very low, she will get her full dose.

    She is 11 lbs. She has gained 1 lb in 43 days! I knew she had gained weight but not that much. :oops: I guess our scale at home is quite inaccurate. Now that she is back to a healthy weight, I will cut back her food.

    The vet said the diabetes looks very well controlled and she was quite impressed with my understanding and involvement. I told her all about LL and gave much credit to the lovely folks here!

    A side note...she was quick the little diva at the vet. She heard other cats meowing and she started growling. She swiped at the vet, hissed, growled and was completely uncooperative. I had to hold her paws down while the vet examined her. They took her to another room to do the pre-dental bloodwork and we could hear hear SCREAMING. For about 15 minutes. She sounded like a small child. They ended up having to wrap her in blankets and hold her down to get her blood. She's never been so difficult at the vet! We've been home for about 15 minutes and she's fine. She just ate her lunch and she's preening now. I have a feeling she's going to take a loooong nap today.

    Yesterday's Condo

    Yesterday's Recap:
    AMPS 303
    +2 311
    +11 211
    PMPS 169
    +2 142
    +11 295
     
  2. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia AMPS 284 and vet/dental update

    Aw poor Magnolia, had quite a day at the vets!
    And she deserves a nice relaxing nap.

    Hope u get some feedback with the meds, glad u took her in for the check up.
     
  3. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia AMPS 284 and vet/dental update

    hi sarah. i assume when you said you asked all of jill's questions you are referring to the dental check list which jojo helped me with before alex had her dental last august. that list is out-dated. if you search the health forum you'll find posts by jess and dr. lisa regarding the latest research on dentals. the latest research shows antibiotics are not routinely needed for dentals. they are only given if necessary.

    it seems like *most* vets say to give a half dose or no dose of insulin the morning of a dental because the anesthesia can have a blood glucose lowering effect...
     
  4. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia AMPS 284 and vet/dental update

    Thanks Jill. Yes I am referring to that list. I must have misunderstood it's context, I thought it was up to date, but I think it was helpful anyway. I still have much research to do and I will definitely check out the health board. I will also look into giving only have her dose...I too thought it odd...how can you give a full dose with no food in her belly?
     
  5. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    +11 56!!!! Give PM shot???

    She had a very rough day. We went to the vet at 11am, got home at 12:30. She ate, and went to sleep. She had no interest in food for the rest of the day. I coaxed her to eat at 5pm, then I set the timer to feed again at 6:30. When I got home at 8:30, the food was untouched and she was upstairs sleeping in her secret hiding spot.

    So...with very little food all day...is this a number I can shoot? I'm home, but exhausted. I worry I won't be able to get all the checks I will need throughout the night. DH should be home soon...I'll get his input to see if he can be responsible for waking me up.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    ETA: She is starvin like marvin now. Anxiously awaiting her PM dinner.
     
  6. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! Help! Shoot?

    u have an hour till PMPS time right?
     
  7. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! Help! Shoot?

    let's see where she is at +12. She might go up quite a bit (or not!).
     
  8. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    crown amputations

    I hesitate to stick my nose in, but here it goes anyway.

    Crown amputations are controversial, to say the least. Without x-rays I'm not sure how they've decided on crown amputations rather than actual full extractions. IN cases of advanced tooth resorption (aka FORL) in which the root has actually been overtaken by bone, there is not much to extract so the crown [tooth above the root] is removed and any remaining dental material is scraped out. If the FORL is not so advanced, lopping off the crown and leaving the root in there is not advised as it could remain a source of pain and infection.

    To be honest, root removal in cases of tooth resorption is not always easy -- the roots often crumble and it can get messy, so a lot of regular vets aren't fond of or comfortable with the removal process. If Magnolia were my cat, I'd clarify the reasoning behind the decision to do crown amputation (perhaps there are previous x-rays showing extremely advanced resorption?) and try to get a sense of whether or not the vet is just not comfortable digging out the FORL roots. If that's the case, I'd ask for a referral to a dentist.

    I don't know if you've read some of my other recent posts on teh subject but my own cat had a mouthful of FORLs and he did have root remnants left behind and I did end up needing to pay a lot of money to get his remaining teeth extracted and have all of the previously-leftover root bits dug out of his painful, inflamed gingiva. I will always feel bad about that.
     
  9. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! Help! Shoot?

    Please, Jess, your nose is needed here! I've been reading all the posts on dental since I got home (I still have MANY more to go!) and I plan to ask why the crown amputations. She has never had x-rays done on her teeth. When the vet was talking to me, I got the impression that these teeth were REALLY bad...therefore they could only do this kind of procedure, but I will clarify.

    Thanks Ronnie for your quick reply, I'll check her again at PMPS and post. She is sooooo hungry. She's trying her pathetic meow on me now...but I won't cave! She did get a freeze dried salmon treat with the +11 check.
     
  10. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    Not much of a rise. I know it will go up once she eats. But will it go up enough?

    Thoughts?
     
  11. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    BUMP

    hmmm 62...u had a 73 or so a little while ago that u shot....how much can u stall?
     
  12. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    did u feed already and shoot?
     
  13. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    I can stall as long as necessary. She got her shot this morning at 9:45. I have not shot or fed.

    I'm thinking to just shoot it. DH will be responsible for waking me up to check her tonight. What do you think?
     
  14. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    In my opinion, I'd retest 15min from that 62
    might give u a bit more of a comfort number

    anyone else? need eyes please! lol
     
  15. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    Everybody must be out having fun.

    I'll retest again and post. In about 3 minutes actually...
     
  16. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    She's now at 58.

    Is this too dangerous to shoot? Yes I shot a 73 and she was perfectly fine. It was during the day though.

    I'm not sure how much longer she can go without food. She is going to eat my face.
     
  17. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    very nice! It looks like Magnolia is surfing, so if you're able to test tonight (starting with +1) you can shoot whenever you're ready. :mrgreen:

    We don't want to make Magnolia eat your face...
     
  18. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    oh my gosh, Magnolia, make up ur mind! lol!

    What a funny girl!

    Thanks Libby for stopping in!
     
  19. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56! PMPS 62 Help! Shoot?

    Oh no! The bean needs her nose!!!
     
  20. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 2.18 Magnolia +11 56 PMPS 62 Shot full dose

    She's a girl, she has the right to be indecisive. Thank you all for your support! I knew I could shoot it, I just needed someone else to tell me. I gave her two big spoons of LC wellness and she gobbled it up, then looked at me like "Wha?!? Gimme Gimme More!!" I'll get a +1 and post. I have movies I can watch and video games I can play if I need to stay up all night. Hopefully she'll come up, steady and slow. Today, she ate probably 1/2 of what she usually eats.

    I definitely need my face, and especially my nose. I'd look very silly walking around without a face. I'd also bump into things a lot.
     
  21. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    +11 56 PMPS 62 +1 82

    82 is a nice rise for her. I'll check again and feed at +2.
     
  22. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    PMPS 62 +1, 82, +2 70

    I'm going to give LC now, I can stay up for another hour or two, and will feed MC if necessary.
     
  23. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    looks good, stay on top of it.
     
  24. Jen and Oreo (GA)

    Jen and Oreo (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    yep more LC until you just can't anymore :smile:
     
  25. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    PMPS 62 +1, 82, +2 70, +3 110

    +3 110. fed LC at +2. She is doing her nails right now.

    i set her timer to feed at +4, +6 and +8. I am trying to hang in to get a +4 but I'm not sure after that. I can set an alarm for +6 and hope I get up.
     
  26. Sara & Magnolia

    Sara & Magnolia Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    +3 110, +4 97, +5 130

    Today's recap:
    AMPS 284
    Vet visit at +1
    +11 54
    PMPS 62
    PMPS +.25 58
    +1 83
    +2 70
    (ate LC)
    +3 110
    +4 97
    +5 130
    (ate LC)
     
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