? 2/20 Chase-New with SLGS-AMPS 237, +1 163, +2 78, +3 155, +11.25 144 human meter, +1 157, +2.25 155

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Sandi & Chase in AZ

Sandi & Chase in AZ

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Good Morning,

I'm just hoping to get someone to be watching, here. I'm getting ready to give Chase his shot and the past 2 days he has dropped pretty low afterwards. Although, he was put on a new reduced dose of .25 u last night. That maybe why his AMPS is a little higher this morning.

I fed him a 1/4 cut of food after his AMPS, and am getting ready to shoot. Fingers crossed. I will be able to hang around for a couple of hours this morning, as I have to go into work, but I will at least get a +1 and +2.

Thanks to EVERYONE here.
 
Morning, Sandi! The +1 and +2 will be good-- you're right, Chase has a tendency to drop low quickly, so that will give you an indication of what's in store for the day and let you take action (i.e., leave extra food down) if need be.
 
Sandi -

Have you had a chance to look over the "New to the Group" sticky? There's a timetable in the note that lays out what a "typical" Lantus cycle looks like. With some cats, you need to shift the cycle a bit earlier or later depending on that particular cat but the cycle will give you an idea of how Lantus generally works.

I would also encourage you to add information to the "Comments" section of your spreadsheet. This is particularly important if you are using food (either low or high carb) to steer the cycle. It will give you a means to track what works and it also helps us to know what you've been doing so we can provide more informed support and suggestions.

 
Morning Sandi, (well it's afternoon here, just finished lunch)
Glad to see Chase is giving you a bit of a break with that amps. What did you shoot this morning?

It says 0.5u on the ss, did you shoot that or 0.25? With his dippy dip shenanigans yesterday he earned a permanent reduction to 0.25u, that should be his new dose.

Here's yesterdays thread (condo)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-2-149-3-147-9-196.173431/page-2#post-1900484
 
Gill & George said:
Morning Sandi, (well it's afternoon here, just finished lunch)
Glad to see Chase is giving you a bit of a break with that amps. What did you shoot this morning?

It says 0.5u on the ss, did you shoot that or 0.25? With his dippy dip shenanigans yesterday he earned a permanent reduction to 0.25u, that should be his new dose.

Here's yesterdays thread (condo)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-2-149-3-147-9-196.173431/page-2#post-1900484
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Yikes... I have to change that to 0.25. Will do that now. And at +1, he is at 163 BG. WOW... what a difference from the weekend, so far. I will test again in an hour. :)
 
Definitely a more comfortable number than the weekend's +1 and +2's, but that's still a 70pt drop from shot time, so he may need a bit of steering with more food. I'll leave the specific recommendations to the pros in terms of how much and when would be best.

I know you have to leave after the +2, are you gone all day after that?
 
When you got that BG test this morning before the shot, had Chase had anything prior to that?

That's quite a big drop, still in nice safe numbers, but it does indicate an active cycle.

Great idea getting a +2, and I would also give him a teaspoon or two of LC food, to try and slow the rate that he is dropping at.
He's not in any danger, but when they drop fast at the begining of the cycle giving a bit of LC can encourage them to slow down the drop.
We like to control the speed at which they drop, if we can, so that it doesn't trigger a bounce (bounce= physiological response to fast drop or numbers lower than kitties are used to which results in liver dumping glucose into blood stream and raises BG).
 
Nan & Amber said:
Definitely a more comfortable number than the weekend's +1 and +2's, but that's still a 70pt drop from shot time, so he may need a bit of steering with more food. I'll leave the specific recommendations to the pros in terms of how much and when would be best.

I know you have to leave after the +2, are you gone all day after that?
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I will be gone all day, but will hang out at home to AT LEAST get a +3.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
There is still depot from the .5u dose at play. It can take 4-6 cycles for the depot to drain. I would give a snack now, at that +1 and again after the +2.
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Thanks, Karen. I already did the +1, and I just gave him a couple of teaspoons of HC gravy. I will do his +2 in about 30 minutes and then he will get a little more of his breakfast. I have been feeding him slowly, while being able to hang around in the morning, but that isn't my typical schedule because of work. Everyone has suggested that I not let him eat a lot until I see what his numbers are going to do, although... Chase is not one to NOT eat. He LOVES his food, and it is the center of his universe. LOL. A +2 should give a better idea of what the insulin is doing but at least the +1 wasn't like it's been in the last couple of days. :)

Darn it.... I gave him 2 teaspoons of med/high carb. After giving him HC this weekend, I got confused. :(
 
You might want to keep the MC and the HC food in a different location or with a marker write on top of the lid MC and HC so you won't get them mixed up It's easy to do as some of the labels are just about the same color .
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
Everyone has suggested that I not let him eat a lot until I see what his numbers are going to do, although... Chase is not one to NOT eat.
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Before his shots, you can give him his usual amount of food. The above is applying to when the numbers are dropping to not overfeed when steering them so they won't get too full in case you need to give some more steering food.
 
His food is confusing me way too much. For now I think I just need to give him 1/2 his breakfast around shot time, and then the other half after his +2 (it's only because it's not an official work day that I'm able to do a +2 for sure.)

According to his weight, Marje figured that Chase would need 4 cans of the Fancy Feast Classic, per day. Up until now, he has always eaten 2 meals per day... at the time of his insulin. I got into this habit because of the misinformation the vet gave me. Until I can afford a timed feeder, I will now be giving Chase 1/4 of his food in the morning at shot time, and will leave a 1/4 of his food out that I will have frozen. When I get home and after I test, I will give him his evening dose and then 1/4 of his evening meal. If at +1 he is doing fine and I don't have to give him any HC food, after his +2 I will put down the rest. I won't be able to be home constantly to spoon feed him. That's just not realistic.

At what % drop do I give him high carb food? Otherwise, I will give him his normal LC food.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
You might want to keep the MC and the HC food in a different location or with a marker write on top of the lid MC and HC so you won't get them mixed up It's easy to do as some of the labels are just about the same color .
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I have already done that. I didn't give him HC because I made a mistake choosing the container it's in. I did it because that's what I had done over the weekend.

I don't have a clue how people who work full time can stay online and get and use advice like this. I haven't even been able to get ready for work. :(
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
His food is confusing me way too much. For now I think I just need to give him 1/2 his breakfast around shot time, and then the other half after his +2 (it's only because it's not an official work day that I'm able to do a +2 for sure.)

According to his weight, Marje figured that Chase would need 4 cans of the Fancy Feast Classic, per day. Up until now, he has always eaten 2 meals per day... at the time of his insulin. I got into this habit because of the misinformation the vet gave me. Until I can afford a timed feeder, I will now be giving Chase 1/4 of his food in the morning at shot time, and will leave a 1/4 of his food out that I will have frozen. When I get home and after I test, I will give him his evening dose and then 1/4 of his evening meal. If at +1 he is doing fine, I will give him another 1/4 of his evening meal. Then after his +2, I will put down the rest. I won't be able to be home constantly to spoon feed him. That's just not realistic.

At what % drop do I give him high carb food? Otherwise, I will give him his normal LC food.
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Sounds like a good plan. The HC food I hold until he hits 50 OR if there is a huge drop early in the cycle and you have to leave to go to work, then MC or HC food is a good idea. It will start to seem easier the more data you get and see how Chase responds to the insulin. I put the amount of food and carb % in the cell with the numbers so I see what that carb food does to the numbers. It's good data to have to look back to see how Chase responded.
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
I have already done that. I didn't give him HC because I made a mistake choosing the container it's in. I did it because that's what I had done over the weekend.

I don't have a clue how people who work full time can stay online and get and use advice like this. I haven't even been able to get ready for work. :(
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hugs, it is overwhelming at first. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Sounds like a good plan. The HC food I hold until he hits 50 OR if there is a huge drop early in the cycle and you have to leave to go to work, then MC or HC food is a good idea. It will start to seem easier the more data you get and see how Chase responds to the insulin. I put the amount of food and carb % in the cell with the numbers so I see what that carb food does to the numbers. It's good data to have to look back to see how Chase responded.
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People had me give him HC food this weekend when he dropped into the 70s.
 
The food thing is definitely confusing in general, but don't let it stress you out too much at this stage, for the most part it's a "fine tuning" kind of thing, and you can rely on expert help here to guide. The only time it is really critical is in situations like you had this weekend, where he dropped very low very early, and you were looking at (potentially) several hours in which you needed to be sure he'd eat for you when you needed him to.

On a normal day, people do meals in different ways. It's generally thought that diabetic cats do better with several small meals throughout the day, but that doesn't work with everyone's schedule and situation with other pets, so some people do just a couple big mealtimes at the shot times, and for many cats that works just fine. Just do what works for you and Chase for regular meals, and let folks here guide you about doing any additional food-steering-- luckily, he's a good eater so it sounds like he'd be happy with the kind of tsp at a time steering recommended even if he'd already had a full breakfast!

Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
People had me give him HC food this weekend when he dropped into the 70s.
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Yes-- we try to avoid the HC in everyday situations, but he needed it this weekend because of how low and how early he'd dropped. I don't think it's a big problem to have gotten some HC this morning, it'll just give him a different kind of "boost" than the LC does.
 
So much for having a good day.

+2 is 78 and I had already given him 2 tsp of HC gravy. I am beyond frazzled. I'm almost out of test strips. I have a new human meter and test strips but haven't even been able to set it up yet. Can anyone guide me so that I can get it ready without having to go through all of the instructions?

What do I feed, now? He still hasn't gotten all of his am regular meal. :(
 
Nan & Amber said:
The food thing is definitely confusing in general, but don't let it stress you out too much at this stage, for the most part it's a "fine tuning" kind of thing, and you can rely on expert help here to guide. The only time it is really critical is in situations like you had this weekend, where he dropped very low very early, and you were looking at (potentially) several hours in which you needed to be sure he'd eat for you when you needed him to.

On a normal day, people do meals in different ways. It's generally thought that diabetic cats do better with several small meals throughout the day, but that doesn't work with everyone's schedule and situation with other pets, so some people do just a couple big mealtimes at the shot times, and for many cats that works just fine. Just do what works for you and Chase for regular meals, and let folks here guide you about doing any additional food-steering-- luckily, he's a good eater so it sounds like he'd be happy with the kind of tsp at a time steering recommended even if he'd already had a full breakfast!



Yes-- we try to avoid the HC in everyday situations, but he needed it this weekend because of how low and how early he'd dropped. I don't think it's a big problem to have gotten some HC this morning, it'll just give him a different kind of "boost" than the LC does.
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Repeat of this weekend at +2
 
I would give him some more HC (maybe a tablespoon) and test again in about 20 minutes to see where he's at.

Does your human meter have a "short cut" set of instructions for setting it up? They usually come with both the "big book" of instructions, and a sheet of paper with quick steps that basically get you going.

I have to take a quick shower, but I'll check back again shortly. I'm sure there are others around, too.
 
Sandi, he'll do fine-- food will bring him back up, and as you've said, he's a good eater! I'm again going to leave the specific recommendations to the experts, but I'm guessing that once he has more food on board (possibly supplemented with a bit of honey or gravy), he'll just surf along like he did this weekend.

The only tricky thing is that you'll be gone for part of the day. This is going to sound like a weird thing to do, but can you quickly put some wet food in a baggie or something and throw it into the freezer? Often people leave out frozen "pucks" of cat food for mid-day meals-- in this case of course, it's not going to freeze completely in the hour or so before you leave, but it might freeze enough to slow him down so that he has to wait until a bit later in the day to eat.
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
At what % drop do I give him high carb food? Otherwise, I will give him his normal LC food.
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Bobbie And Bubba said:
The HC food I hold until he hits 50
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Sorry just want to clarify this, because you are using a pet meter at the moment and they read slightly higher the point at which we bring out HC is usually 68. When you swap to the relion human meter that number becomes 50.

So yesterday, at 70 it was very early in the cycle, so the insulin was still building in his body, he was close to the cut off point, and he had dropped very quickly.
So all of that made bringing out the HC the best choice. When it's early in the cycle the insulin starts to build from somewhere between +1 and +2 reaching a maximum level of action around about +6 (the above does vary a bit from cat to cat)

Today, he had a steep drop at +1 but because he was still way off that 68, I would have been tempted to just go with the LC,
It's OK that you used the gravy when you saw that drop and it will provide you with some useful data, you can see what the HC does to his blood glucose and that will be useful info to have when you have to leave to go into work.
I'm guessing when you get the +2 that his numbers will have come up some. It will be interesting to see by how much.

Sandi just want to get this straight.
You fed a 1/4 can ff this morning just before you shot.
What was the last time he had some food in the night? I'm just wondering if the amps was at all influenced by food.
It's important that he not have any food for two hours before you get the AMPS/PMPS

Edited to add
ignore my comments I just saw the +2, you posted while I was writing out this post, I would go with Amys recommendation of a good helping of HC now.
 
Gill & George said:
Sorry just want to clarify this, because you are using a pet meter at the moment and they read slightly higher the point at which we bring out HC is usually 68. When you swap to the relion human meter that number becomes 50.

So yesterday, at 70 it was very early in the cycle, so the insulin was still building in his body, he was close to the cut off point, and he had dropped very quickly.
So all of that made bringing out the HC the best choice. When it's early in the cycle the insulin starts to build from somewhere between +1 and +2 reaching a maximum level of action around about +6 (the above does vary a bit from cat to cat)

Today, he had a steep drop at +1 but because he was still way off that 68, I would have been tempted to just go with the LC,
It's OK that you used the gravy when you saw that drop and it will provide you with some useful data, you can see what the HC does to his blood glucose and that will be useful info to have when you have to leave to go into work.
I'm guessing when you get the +2 that his numbers will have come up some. It will be interesting to see by how much.

Sandi just want to get this straight.
You fed a 1/4 can ff this morning just before you shot.
What was the last time he had some food in the night? I'm just wondering if the amps was at all influenced by food.
It's important that he not have any food for two hours before you get the AMPS/PMPS
Click to expand...

I am using the Alpha Trak 2. I need to change to the human meter right away and finally got it set up. Hopefully Marje can adjust the spreadsheet. The tests I've done this morning are all with the Alpha Trak, but I only have a few strips left. I had NO idea I would blow through $70 worth of test strips in a weekend. :(

His numbers went way down even after the HC gravy. I just gave him more HC gravy. I don't understand this. It's nothing like it has been.

Chase was doing so good before I changed his food.

I fed him 1/4 can of Fancy Feast AFTER I got his AMPS. Then I gave him his shot.
He didn't eat during the night.
I have never given him food for 2 hours before I test.
 
He is eating Gravy Lovers FF right now. I will test again in 5 minutes.

Why... after HC gravy did he drop so much. I don't understand any of this. If this hadn't been a holiday, I wouldn't have been here to see that +2. I don't know how to do this since I have to work an I work 10 hour days. He will have to get insulin at more than 12 hours apart if I am to be able to get +3 every day, which it seems is what's happening. Tomorrow I won't be here long after I give him his shot. I honestly don't know what to do, now.
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
His numbers went way down even after the HC gravy. I just gave him more HC gravy. I don't understand this. It's nothing like it has been.

Chase was doing so good before I changed his food.
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These lower numbers though nerve wracking for us humans when we have administered insulin. Are good numbers.
A healthy non diabetic cat would have normal blood sugar in the 50-80 range. (human meter)
He is doing great after the food change, giving you palpitations, but he is doing great.

Don't worry about the ss for now, we'll fix it later.

Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
I fed him 1/4 can of Fancy Feast AFTER I got his AMPS. Then I gave him his shot.
He didn't eat during the night.
I have never given him food for 2 hours before I test.
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Thanks for answering, I was just wondering if that might explain the drop we saw.
Your method is good.
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
I just gave him more HC gravy. I don't understand this. It's nothing like it has been.

Chase was doing so good before I changed his food.
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Did you recently remove dry food? If so that is why you're seeing such a difference. It's stressful for now but if he can go into remission soon because of the food change you won't have to deal with diabetes much longer.

Good call on the HC at +1, and yes, give him more HC now as you just did.

@Gill & George Sandi is following SLGS so honestly giving HC once he goes below 90 is the best idea.
 
Gill & George said:
How much gravy have you given him?
I would get a test at +2.5.
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I can't measure the gravy. I can barely get it out of the can without the slivers of food, which he will NOT eat.

I just ran the FF Gravy Lovers through my Nutribullet and put down a little less than 1/4 cup. He ate it all and he is still hungry.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Did you recently remove dry food? If so that is why you're seeing such a difference. It's stressful for now but if he can go into remission soon because of the food change you won't have to deal with diabetes much longer.

Good call on the HC at +1, and yes, give him more HC now as you just did.

@Gill & George Sandi is following SLGS so honestly giving HC once he goes below 90 is the best idea.
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He has been off of ALL dry food for weeks, now.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Wait 15-30 min. It takes at least 15-30 minutes for the food to hit his system.
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He just finished off the bit of HC that I put down. I won't just give the gravy anymore because I can't hardly measure it. I had no idea I would have to be measuring every single individual serving I put down for him.

So then.... should I test in 30 minutes?
 
Ok, since he dropped below 90, on SLGS anytime they go below 90 you reduce the dose. Even if it is the depot talking from the .5u it doesn't matter. It's safer to bring the dose down and if needed go back up later. Here is a picture of the .1u dose starting tonight.
01unit-1.jpg
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
He is eating Gravy Lovers FF right now. I will test again in 5 minutes.

Why... after HC gravy did he drop so much. I don't understand any of this. If this hadn't been a holiday, I wouldn't have been here to see that +2. I don't know how to do this since I have to work an I work 10 hour days. He will have to get insulin at more than 12 hours apart if I am to be able to get +3 every day, which it seems is what's happening. Tomorrow I won't be here long after I give him his shot. I honestly don't know what to do, now.
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Somewhere between +1 and +2 his insulin onset and he had a strong reaction to it.
Sometimes they do just dive like that, and given the last couple of days, it seems that Chase likes a high dive.
So what today tells us, if you see his +1 dropping, instead of giving him LC meal, you might want to give him a full on HC meal.
and leave some HC kitty icicles out for him to nibble on.
 
Chase had been eating nothing but Purina DM for weeks. As soon as I changed him to FF Classic, his numbers started going all over the place.

When I look up the carbs for Purina DM Pate, it says 7%. Why is that so bad?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Ok, since he dropped below 90, on SLGS anytime they go below 90 you reduce the dose. Even if it is the depot talking from the .5u it doesn't matter. It's safer to bring the dose down and if needed go back up later. Here is a picture of the .1u dose starting tonight.
View attachment 26537
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Wait.... what? :( Marje said that since I only just took him down to .25 that I shouldn't change anything right away. I'm so, so confused. :(
 
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