24/8 Update on Chester

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by AJay, Aug 23, 2017.

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  1. AJay

    AJay Member

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    Quick update on Golden Paws (def rename needed after vet bills!)
    He's continuing to improve on IV fluids as video shows.
    However, vet is not helping me much re a home care plan. Basically her plan is to send him home with increased insulin dose and Hills GI diet! No supplements, no support, nothing. If he maintains electrolytes, great, if not... there's nothing more she can do - in her opinion. :(

    Personally, that's not good enough. From his symptoms I'm convinced he has Triaditis. How can I help him get stronger and support his compromised gastro without something to help the inflammation?! Viscious circle and Ches is the victim here :'(

    A second opinion within the practice is not an option. One partner is an A-hole of note, the other nearly killed one of my other cats by overmedicating him. I do have a potential other vet lined up to have a convo with later on when she is in. I will also be contacting a homeopathic vet (allopathic gone rogue ;) ) He is a fair genius. Very down to earth and a wealth of knowledge.

    Any suggestions on suitable food (bozita canned?) or any other suggestions on home management of Triaditis is greatfully recieved. We need to buy this little soldier time to recover.
    Suitable anti nausea meds? Gastro lining supplements? Electrolytes?.... IMG_2181.JPG
     
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  2. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Tagging @Marje and Gracie

    Marje knows about Triaditis - right before we lost KT, we talked about that being what he might have....she'll at least have more direction than I can.

    I CAN send headbutts, hugs and prayers....I'm glad you posted an update, I searched for one a couple of hours ago.
     
  3. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Shame on that vet, she should never have released Chester without a home treatment follow-up plan, and having discussed it thoroughly with you! I would definitely talk to another vet, or vets.

    I don't know much about triaditis. I do know slippery elm bark (SEB) is a good gastro-lining supplement, but it mustn't be given within 2 hours of any other meds, as it will hinder their absorption. Electrolytes I'm not certain about but believe they are best delivered via fluid drip or sub-q fluids. I think Tanya @Tanya and Ducia might have some knowledge of this.

    Sending more prayers and healing vines. Please give Chester Golden Paws some gentle scritches from me, and tell him about all his adopted "Aunties and Uncles" on FDMB who are praying for him and pulling for him to have a full recovery! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
    healing light hands.jpeg
     
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  4. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    @AJay
    @Squalliesmom

    Hi, sorry for being late - I am not online when my cat bounces and do not get notifications.

    My Ducia was in very poor condition when we took her home with a suspected, never confirmed by biopsy,triaditis (no money). As I said earlier we nursed her to health at home.

    Background: my Darling Husband (DH) is a human medic. Back then when effing vet suggested PTS for our girl DH said that we need no biopsy because there was no cure at all except excluding the toxic factors. Whether is was Ducia's liver, pancreas or duodenum (the trio) - if there is no infection, an inflammation of any of these will cause problems. It wasn't matter which one - so no biopsy. There is no cure but supportive care, nursing. Meaning: exclude the toxicity - food toxicity to begin with, and water. Get the BG down. Allophathic medicine manages symptoms- that's why they want to know what they are managing - but it doesn't cure. To admit that there is no cure for a vet/ MD = deny income, and she/he is debt for schooling/mortgage, etc., life.

    I just talked to DH again and he says that he stands by his medical opinion that pure, good quality food, like raw, and clean water, and SQ fluids -no more that 100 ml / day weight dependent - is a way to try at home for you and Ches. Insulin therapy is a must - keep the numbers below 299 to begin with. Shoot on time, be consistent.

    You will need anti-nausea medication like Cerenia in the US for sure, an appy stimulant - just in case, antacid like US Pepcid/Famotidine- just in case, and antibiotic - only if there is fever. Also - a lever supplement like Denamarin in the US (Milk Thistle based)- I listed all of the meds Ducia was taking in the Remarks section of the SS.

    With greater control over the diabetes gradually the electrolyte dis-balance will get back to norm. Ducia was low in Potassium - we had a med Potassium Jelly and never gave it to her - she is not a cat to be force fed. All was back to norm, again - with only food, water, insulin and SQ fluids. Give his body a chance to recover - they have amazing capacities to recover.

    If the numbers are high and Ches is getting worse do run a blood a test - electrolytes. Post with questions.

    Do not sack you vet just yet - you'll need Rx and blood work done.

    ETA: Let the vet's children eat the Hills diet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    Reason for edit: typo
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Tanya's real life experience with this has no substitute! :bighug::bighug: She's given you excellent advice for your lovely Chester.
     
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  6. vbc2000

    vbc2000 Member

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    Poor boy, sending all the kitty prayers we have!
     
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  7. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Yes, lol!:):p:joyful:
     
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  8. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    Ok so updating this for AJay as she's feeling really overwhelmed right now. :(

    So here's the long and short of it. The facts. I'm sorry folks but it's not good news at all..

    Vet is pushing to have Chester euthanised. He doesn't seem able to maintain his potassium level when off the drip.

    Vet is saying this is down to multiple issues, and that she will not diagnose or treat without confirmation of triaditis.

    Vet will not give Chester subq to maintain his potassium at home as he is not a ckd kitty and she does not believe that he will pull through.

    The current situation is that AJay has asked to bring Chester home at least short term before euthanasia.
    She is scrambling to find a way to get subq fluids, a potassium suppliment and everything else she needs to keep him comfortable when he does come home. (Tomorrow?) as vet refuses to issue a prescription and pushes for euthanasia instead.

    The hope is that given enough support he could possibly have a small chance to pull through this. If not he will not suffer as AJay will bring him back to be euthanised if it comes to it.

    She is working tirelessly to find someone to support her - a different vet, homeopathic vet and literally grasping at straws to do absolutely everything she can to give Chester every chance possible.
    She has ordered colloidal silver to see if this will help with any inflammation and is doing her best to get any supplies she can without prescription.

    I really wish I was updating with something more positive...
     
  9. vbc2000

    vbc2000 Member

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    :bighug: I'm so sorry. What a shame that the vet won't do whatever she can to help. It doesn't seem right.
     
  10. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame...
    I took my cat home with low Potassium and Rx supplement - could not give it to her more than several times... So basically she was not getting any and it improved/resolved on its own.
    We were giving SQF.
    AJ told me that almost everything else is good with Chester - heart, thyroid, kidneys... The ketones were out...Temp back to norm.
    Real shame.
    Thank you for posting the update.
    I was convinced he had a chance at home.
    Sometimes I wish there was black market for such instances.
    Poor AJ and Chester!
     
  11. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Please let AJay know we are all rooting for her to be able to get someone to support her and Chester. Potassium supplementation can be done at home but it seems the vet isn't willing to give Chester a fair chance. The vet already suggested triaditis as a possible diagnosis so why not treat for it and give Chester a chance when everything else seemed to check out fine? AJay is more than willing to nurse Chester so for the vet not to help her do so, seems very callous.
    Keeping Chester and AJay in our thoughts and prayers! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hoping for something positive to happen in this tragic situation. :(
     
  13. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    I have unopened syringe of potassium supplement.
    Was refrigerated since Feb 27/2017.
    No expiration date listed.
    We could not give Ducia the Rx daily amount. As you can see in her labs - the Potassium went up on its own from 3.4 on Feb 24 to 4.42 on March 10. I guess wasn't important at all..she ate very very little of it. It is not suitable for the e-tubes.
    SQ fluids is really what necessary - I cannot understand why that vet wants to kill Chester. :arghh:
     
  14. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I so hope she can find another vet who will help her. This is just heartbreaking. I don't understand that vet at all; treating him for triaditis isn't going to harm him if that's not what he has - he has all the symptoms of it. I pray there is another vet in the area who will help, Chester really deserves this chance!
     
  15. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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  16. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Healing vines for sweet Chester. He looks like he is trying to get better.:bighug:
     
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  17. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    @AJay, another member whose cat has triaditisis @Carol & Murphy. She may be able to give you some helpful input, too. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  18. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    *paws crossed for Chester* :cat:
     
  19. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    Another update.

    AJay has managed to get some subq fluids, potassium (to be confirmed today) and anti nausea meds. Roughly enough for 7-10 days so that will I hope buy some time at least. I do hope Chester responds to this at home and she can find a vet that will treat him in time.
    AJay really is a super mum and has been working diligently- night and day to do anything and everything she can. Keep those vines and prayers coming!
     
  20. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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  21. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Praying for you Chester :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  22. Amanda and a Loudogg

    Amanda and a Loudogg Well-Known Member

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    Sending some positive and healing energy your way! :cat:
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is a positive development. @Tanya and Ducia would be a good resource for Ajay.
     
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  24. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    So happy to hear AJay has managed to get some supplies to help Chester. She is indeed a super Mom and Chester is a very very lucky kitty! Sending another boatload of healing vines to Chester, hugs for AJay and keeping them both in our thoughts and prayers!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  25. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I already tagged Tanya and Ducia, also Carol and Murphy. They were the first ones who came to my mind, both have experience with triaditis. :):) Praying SO hard for Chester and AJay, they really need to catch a break!:cat:
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Count me among the large group of folks who a rooting hard for Chester and Ajay! :bighug::bighug::):)
     
  27. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I think the whole community is pulling for him! :bighug:
     
  28. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Positive thoughts! Chester and Ajay found each other for a good reason! :cat::)
     
  29. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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  30. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    Aaand another update. @Squeaky and KT (GA) @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel @Tanya and Ducia @Squalliesmom @Yong (sorry if I missed anyone)

    Chester is home. He's had fluids, potassium and colloidal silver. He's eaten, went for a walk in the grass, caught and ate a mouse all by himself!

    AJay is still a little overwhelmed with everything but will be on to update you herself. I know how I hate hanging about waiting to hear these things so here's a couple of pics of him tonight before catching his snack.

    IMG_1188.JPG

    IMG_1189.JPG
     
  31. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Yeah!!! :D:D
    Thank you for the update.
    I do not what kind of better proof is needed to show that he feels well?
    How could that vet suggest PTS for a cat who is well enough to hunt?:mad: Something is very wrong with that vet.
     
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  32. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    Welcome! :)

    I have not once seen this cat give up he's never had that 'look' in his eyes.

    I just pray that the issues can be brought under control quickly. For whatever reason he's not maintaining hydration and potassium levels and does seem to go downhill quickly without support.
     
  33. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    His BG is high, right? He needs enough insulin to keep the numbers below 300s for several days and his Potassium will improve.
    His cells are locked right now. Insulin in the proper dose is a universal master key to unlock the cells and enable them to retain Potassium. He may not even be needing a lot of Potassium supplement.
    I pray that his home nursing is a success.
     
  34. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    His insulin dose is up from 1.5 to 2.5 now so that should help. :)
     
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hurray for Chester's mouse catching exploits! There's a big group here on FDMB sending healing vines in his direction.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    And I hope that mouse contained a whole lot of super healing magic mouse bits! ;)
     
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  37. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    Lol he looked super pleased when he caught it (saw a video) and ate the whole thing ick!
     
  38. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    The one think I am absolutely confident to declare - a dying cat will not hunt.
    Period.
    He is a fighter.

    If he has 7-10 days supplies - SQF, Potassium, insulin, food - I'd throw all of my weight in to finding the working dose ASAP.
    There are dose wizards on this forum to help out - do get their attention.
    Hubby and I strongly believe that if the proper dose is found pronto, the BGs are kept in Yellow, SQF administered on time and he eats well(or better yet - hunts in addition) - Chester has fair shot.
     
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  39. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

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    I'm really really routing for him! I just don't see what the vet sees in pts. I don't believe he would have made it this far without his lionheart! He's definitely fighting.
    I believe if he does well over the next while - AJay may be able to get more supplies. Or at least I hope so, being hopeful yet cautious.
     
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  40. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen any blood work, so just a guess - the vet is incompetent in insulin dosing and covers it...
    Off course, seeing the whole picture - blood/ urine tests - may make me change my mind later on but that's how it looks to someone with human med knowledge right now - sheer incompetence in FD & aggressive dosing approach on the vet's part.
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I like Tanya's advice. She went through absolute hell with Ducia last Christmas - I was there (sort of!) and she saved her kitty's life. Enough insulin is key. Food too. It's the thing they focus on when treating DKA because all the other stuff like electrolyte balance, etc. depends on it. I remember that from my guy's time in hospital for DKA.
     
  42. AJay

    AJay Member

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    Jul 31, 2017
    Hi guys, sorry, I've been MIA - I literally haven't stopped today.

    Last night I sat down after all the drama trying to get fluids etc, tying up with various people etc... I fell asleep downstairs. :(

    Thank you @TempestsMum for keeping everyone updated. Its taken a load off my mind :) I physically haven't sat down to do anything pooter-ish and this cant really be done from my phone etc.

    Ches is indeed home. I do have fluids (not managed to administer them yet - am p**ping myself at the thought! Its a hell of a lot of fluid and going to have to be done with 2 syringes!!!! :nailbiting::nailbiting:

    He refused his potassium, so Ive syringed that in. He's refused any further food after the mouse at 7.30pm ish... (-3 hours ago). Would you consider that normal? He has done a huge one in the litter tray. Ive given him .5ml ranitidine with his chicken when I got home. Can I give him any more? He's also had 1 pipette of Pure colloidal silver in his water and 1 in his mouth. His tummy is gurgling. Im wondering if it might be an idea to give him some slippery elm by mouth???

    He is quiet and lying out in the lounge. I am tempted to camp down here tonight so he can at least roam around if he wants to rather than be cooped up (for his health, other than anything other)

    Questions, questions, questions....

    If anyone wants the notes and last bloods, then you are welcome, Ill try to post them if you pm me.

    Thank you again for your patience and time and advice. We need all the help we can get... xxx
     
  43. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Give me a little time - I'll respond shortly.
     
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  44. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Want it very much!
    Can you please upload/fill in the LAB section which is in your SS?
    It'll make them public but I hope you 're ok with that.. We have a wizard to read thru it, her name is @Marje and Gracie . I do want very much for Chester to have her opinion...
    If typing in all of the numbers is too much at the moment - just upload clear legible picture right here.
     
  45. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    :D
    Of course you are.. We all would be... Here are some useful infos. There is also a tutorial video - i"ll fetch it later.
    yes. would you eat a can of spam after a game?
    is in antacid? You have to be very carefully with dose. Little does it...
    What is the anti nausea med he is given? The ingredient list is like?..

    AND THE MOST IMPORTANT - WHAT IS THE CURRENT BG, THE INSULIN TYPE, THE DOSE?

    The last entry in the SS is from August 20 - please, please update, we MUST see the current situation.
    I know you are tired.But without the current data we are not able to help with the dose - and the he MUST HAVE PROPERLY MEASURED insulin.

    I am sorry if I am pushing too much but if you are serious about nursing him back to health then you must know it is a very intense proposition. Camp together as much as you like but please take his BG, record & post, make sure that he gets enough food - record and post, give him SQf - record and post.

    I apologize for being such a hard pusher but it was my understanding that you were taking him home to nurse, not to provide cozy hours before PTS. Was I wrong?

    If I was not wrong I really need to see the BG data and the insulin dosage as of right now.



     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
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  46. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    And sending tons of healing vines and prayers. Chester is a fighter!
     
  47. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Chester is quite the fighter. It sounds like he is doing a lot better. Go Chester Go!
     
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  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're knackered, Ajay, but I agree with Ducia that intensive nursing, posting of data, etc. is of the utmost importance.
     
  49. AJay

    AJay Member

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    Jul 31, 2017
    Thanks guys - believe me I AM quite literally NOT stopping here... To give you an idea of time line of today...

    7.30am Up (little later than normal cos of falling asleep downstairs last night and cracking headache)
    8-10am - Coffee, sort cats out, tidy house - hoover so as not to have to do it this weekend and upset Ches, put washing on before I have no underwear!
    10.00am Do horses - rugs, feed...
    10.45am Tidy myself up to go down to vets
    11.30am Pick up Ches
    12.15pm Pick up mom en route to baby sit Ches while I go get fluids (previous fluids I had lined up didn't turn up thanks to Royal Fail even tho I was up till
    4am on Friday organising it.
    I then got Ches home and settled...
    1.30pm Head to Derby (about 45 mins from me) to meet up with someone to get fluids... and potassium... (nigh on impossible to find!)
    6.00pm Get home (no lunch or brekkie by now) Mom tried to feed me - not hungry...
    Had a bit of time with Ches in the garden as mom hadn't had the confidence to let him out - I kinda thought that was important for him to have a bit
    of outside time - lie in the grass, catch that mouse... ya know - cat who's been in HOSPITAL for a week, kinda stuff.
    7.30pm Tried to sort horses out - feed, rugs, check etc... Talk to a VET and others who were trying to help me at the time
    8.00pm Confirming the dose with the VET I've been chatting to to confirm dose. Instructions on packet say 1 thing, Instructions on history / convo from
    HOSPITAL vet were different... Dose had been INCREASED. I spotted that because at this point I am still semi functioning...
    8.30pm Go and finish jobs with horses I didn't get finished.
    9.00pm Take mom home - 15 mins away in car
    9.30pm Get home.
    Sort cats out etc.
    From then till now (3.39am Sunday Morning!!!) I have NOT stopped. I was checking in with people re Ches etc... Finally get to sit down to watch the video that @TempestsMum kindly sent me of how to administer sub Q's. Chatting to Clare from the CKD forum who was trying to help me with the sub Q fluids. I started replying here while some ANGELS were on their way from Derby 3/4 hour away because they were checking if I was ok. I was struggling...
    I started replying here because I had finally got time to sit down and get to my pc - to find some horrific, hurtful, incredibly painful comments which have just compounded an horrific past 48 hours.
    3.44am The ANGELS that provided me with the Sub q's and the potassium have not long left.

    I am so hurt and utterly devastated by the comments on here...

    "yes. would you eat a can of spam after a game? - erm actually, because I have been so OBSERVANT I noticed he wasn't eating and was concerned about his hydration!!!

    ranitidine
    is in antacid? You have to be very carefully with dose. Little does it... DOSE as per the vet - as detailed in pm. .5ml - I even asked around to find out if I could give any more etc

    What is the anti nausea med he is given? The ingredient list is like?.. - Again - Ranitidine

    AND THE MOST IMPORTANT - WHAT IS THE CURRENT BG, THE INSULIN TYPE, THE DOSE? - After today and given he'd only been off fluids since 11.30 and I was chasing round like a mad woman to get stuff for Ches - ON A BANK HOLIDAY.... I even phoned the vet twice to try to get the time they were injecting him cos they hadn't confirmed that on discharge... I DIDNT check his bg.. I think by that time we had all been thru enough! Tomorrow we start again with BG testing - 8am...

    The last entry in the SS is from August 20 - please, please update, we MUST see the current situation. He's been in the vets since SUNDAY 20th!!!
    I know you are tired.But without the current data we are not able to help with the dose - and the he MUST HAVE PROPERLY MEASURED insulin. Yes because I'd give him a random dose for the fun of it!


    He is quiet and lying out in the lounge. I am tempted to camp down here tonight so he can at least roam around if he wants to rather than be cooped up (for his health, other than anything other)
    I am sorry if I am pushing too much but if you are serious about nursing him back to health then you must know it is a very intense proposition. Camp together as much as you like but please take his BG, record & post, make sure that he gets enough food - record and post, give him SQf - record and post. utterly devastated by this!!!

    I apologize for being such a hard pusher but it was my understanding that you were taking him home to nurse, not to provide cozy hours before PTS. Was I wrong? - WTAF?????!!!!!!

    If I was not wrong I really need to see the BG data and the insulin dosage as of right now. - I am struggling to keep a civil tongue in my mouth - I am shaking with exhaustion, nerves, shock, worry, lack of food cos I've lost my appetite...

    Nope, because £2,000 of a vets bill shows no commitment whatsoever.
    Trawling and posting on FB to try to get fluids until 4am in the morning shows not commitment.
    Feeling the need to justify myself and my actions when I haven't stopped and Tara has been kind enough to try to fill you guys in as best she could...
    Im sorry I couldn't sit by my pc, updating you all, but you know, I have been doing the job I COMMITTED to do on 13th of August when I welcomed Chester into my home.

    Its now 4am Sunday morning. I think I'll try and get some sleep before I have to get up to give him his shot at 8am.

    O and I cant find one of my cats - they are house cats... I just hope she haven't slipped out.

    Thank you to all the people who have been supportive and kind. Most of you guys have just been amazing and have provided support when I have been close to falling apart... Those dark times when all I have wanted to do is curl up in a corner and rock...

    I cant apologise if this offends, but you have just crushed me totally! :(
    :(:(:(:(
     
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  50. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    You are doing good Ajay. I have worked schedules like that too. Just exhausting. I hope you get a good sleep.

    I would recommend breakfast everyday. It helps. Also coffee helps me with those long days too. I always get quality coffee. There is something calming about it, then it helps me focus. I think you are wearing yourself out! It made me tired just reading your schedule!
     
  51. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    AJ,

    I apologizes for my comments you have listed above - I can see you are hurt by them but never were my words misinterpreted like that before. It was not my intention to hurt you. I wanted to help - that's all. "some spam after a game " comment meant to be a humor, an attempt to make you laugh and to feel better. I never questioned your commitment. When my cat was dying from DKA I was just as exhausted as you are now and I could not understand anything but plain language put down in the bullet point fashion - I was too exhausted to see what my priorities were and I was grateful when someone talked to me in plain language.
    Again, I am very sorry you are hurt by my words - it is not my intention to hurt you. All I wanted to let you know is that there is a way to try in this dire situation. And to offer my help. Please forgive my bad choice of words.

    Best of luck to you and Chester.
     
  52. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Update

    So Chester has made it through the night. He's had one lot of fluids about 3am last night approx 7'hours ago. And is already dehydrated again so will be receiving a second dose soon.
    His bg is still high at 23.3 that's on 2.5U of canninsulin- slightly lower than when he was at thenvets. This was only increased yesterday or the day before. I don't know much about canninsulin just it drops fast and hard.

    AJay will not be on the forums for a while as she's just not able to keep up. So I will post as and when I can,

    I'm happy to pass on any advice offered.
     
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  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm so sorry that posts conveying a sense of urgency and wanting badly to help have come across as controlling and confrontational. None of that was intentional and it speaks to the difficulties in communicating effectively in this online medium. @Tanya and Ducia has very hard-earned experience and was very willing to help. Her first language is not English, however, and that needs to be factored into the back and forth here. I also understand how difficult it is to receive a barrage of what seem to be commands when a million things need attention at the same time.

    Tara, please let Ajay know we understand how stressed she is, are still pulling hard for Chester and are here to help/advise if she feels the need.
     
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  54. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Tara, we are all grateful for the assistance you are giving AJay by providing an ear when she needs it and updates here. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:All of us are wishing we could be on AJay's doorstep to help out and take some of the pressure off. We understand how incredibly upsetting and exhausting this whole situation has been and continues to be for AJay. Alas all we can offer are written words of support and advice and sometimes those messages don't come across in the spirit in which they are offered.

    Please gently remind AJay to try to get some rest and eat when she can so she doesn't get so exhausted she gets sick. AJay is indeed a force to be reckoned with as is Chester who has shown he is a fighter. Together they make one dynamic duo!

    Sending more healing vines and prayers for Chester and some heavy duty energy vines and :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for AJay.
     
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  55. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    I have just relayed that for you all. :bighug::bighug:

    I wish I had more experience. My main concern is that his BG isn't coming down and reading what Tanya has said realise how important that is. Can anyone advise on that? He's just been upped to 2.5 but it's not dropping him as it should. Should she increase again?
     
  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Is he eating well? If he is, I'd increase. He could also be given higher carb food to support a higher insulin dose if he's eating properly. Lots of monitoring needed of course. I think a period of slightly more aggressive dose increases is in order in this situation - maybe 0.5 u at a time, hold 3 cycles or so and then up again. He's still on Caninsulin, right?
     
  57. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Yes Kris he's still on canninsulin. He seems to be eating ok. I will pass that along, thank you. :bighug:
     
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  58. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    If Chester's appetite is diminished at all, I'd try some higher carb food of any type to see if he can be enticed to eat. If assist feeding is possible (AJay has really had little time to really get to know the little monkey!) then I'd perhaps raise to 3.0u but I think I'd be more conservative right now and up to 2.75u until AJay is sure she can get some nutrition into him if the need should arise. The last thing she needs now is a kitty who won't eat with low BG and another trip to the vet. Hopefully his numbers are a bit of new dose wonkiness and with that significant increase by the vet, I'd worry about skipping over the best dose.
     
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  59. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    She has gone with the 2.75U as his bg is at 20.8 which is the lowest he's been in a week. Hopefully this is a positive sign.

    He's had 2 lots of subq and will be due another later tonight. He did have a wee lie outside earlier too.
     
  60. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Chester this afternoon.

    IMG_1194.JPG
     
  61. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 2, 2016
    Chester is beautiful. Many prayers and hugs being sent :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  62. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    AJ- you and Chester have been through the wringer. BREATHE, BREATHE, BREATHE. I was following on other group site. Didn't know you were here. Glad to see Chester is home.

    I know he has been in hospital basically since you took him in, so I know you don't have data on him. Here is something to consider once you do.

    Vetsulin is not a depot insulin. Therefore, it can be given 3x a day. BUT you need the data to see how it's working now (like how long it lasts, when it starts to work etc. in Chester). There are a few people here that are more experienced in Vetsulin I'm sure would help you figure it out as it will be tricky to figure a new dosing regimen, if your time permits that kind of schedule. As I said it's something worth considering.

    You are doing an awesome job with Chester. and you are his best advocate. It was his lucky day when he found you. Regroup, recoup your energy and sanity. AND BREATHE!!!!! You got this woman!!!!!

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  63. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
  64. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Thanks Tara. Good to know he is dropping and hopefully will drop a bit more yet. Fingers crossed! :)
     
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  65. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    I do think 3u would be good but the 2.75 is good too, it shouldn't make him as bouncy? Maybe if AJay holds the 2.75 for a couple of cycles then does the 3u?
     
  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You could hold 2.75 u for a couple of cycles to see what it can do. This is a case, though, where he shouldn't linger in higher numbers too long. I like the drop at +3 and I'm glad he's eating. He needs calories and enough carbs to support adequate insulin. I think you want to see a good drop in BG for as long as it's possible within a cycle. That could cause some bouncing but my guess is that whether he's bouncy or not remains to be determined.
     
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  67. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    I totally agree. Maybe 3u from tomorrow am? Thoughts?
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Let's see where the 2.75 u dose gets him this cycle. Are we talking about the evening cycle right now? - time zone confusion. Will he have been on 2.75 u for only one cycle? I think the numbers should be the guide rather than how many cycles at a dose for now. The goal is to get him down.
     
  69. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Yes it's almost 1am here so that's his first 2.75 he was on 2.50 for 2-3days
     
  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    The reason for keeping a dose for 3 cycles or so is to allow them to settle. If the 2.75 u gets him down nicely to, say, 10 - 12 range, it might be worth leaving it for another cycle or two. A lot depends on tonight's numbers. What were his nadir numbers on 2.5 u? Is he eating willingly?
     
  71. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    I don't know what they were he was at the vets until yesterday am. They haven't done much testing on the reports... no nadirs from being in their care, he was averaging 25-26 ish on the few tests they've shown.

    This is the lowest he's been since AJay got him I think. There's a problem with her SS so she can't update it.
    I've asked if she can get a +5/6 or 7/8 if she can tonight but I need to sleep, I've been really ill the last two weeks and work tomorrow so it's a struggle for me right now and I can't stay up to post those. It will be the morning before I can.

    He's eating but only small amounts at a time, AJay is prepared to syringe feed if necessary.
    He's getting fluids 2-3 times a day.
     
  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Sounds like everything possible is being done. You need to get to bed, Tara! ;) You can update us tomorrow.
     
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  73. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Tomorrow we can see if we can get the SS fixed for AJay so she can just enter the numbers when she has a moment.
    I agree with Kris. Let's see what he does tonight and then decide next steps how long to hold dose etc. based on numbers, Chester's willingness to eat/AJay's ability to assist feed if need be. As suggested by Woodsywife, 3 time daily dosing could also be considered depending on how AJay if feels about it. It's tough but it might get Chester some extra hours in decent numbers without the need to increase quite as much.
     
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  74. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    I'm just catching up on the last few posts. I agree with Kris' comments above - since this is canisulin, she can shoot the numbers seen per cycle as long as he's got food whether he eats or is syringe fed. AJay's not working on regulation right now, she's working on getting his body back to a stable point. She can't shoot down a bounce but she can give a good full dose knowing the glycogen will hold those numbers up. Enough insulin will convert a good amount of food into healing energy.

    Others thoughts?

    HUGS AND HUGS Ajay and headbutts handsome Chester...
     
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  75. TempestsMum

    TempestsMum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    I have good news this morning! I asked AJay to do a couple of checks throughout the night - poor woman has barely slept. and she did! :)

    So to reiterate pmps 20.8
    +2 22.8 (with a snack)
    +3.5 16.8
    +5 16.9
    +8 11.9
    +10 13.4

    That's a nice curve!
    He appears bright and alert this morning. I'm guessing AJay isn't feeling just so good lol

    Edited he has a bit of diarrhoea any recommendations?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  76. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Just a few more details - I have been giving him Slippery Elm and Psyllium husk. I have noticed in the last lot of liquid poo that the PH is showing :( As in its not being digested or soaking up the liquid :(
    I have also just given him 20mls of Liquivite - convalescence food.
    He has been drinking well and I have been giving him 60ml fluid Sub q.

    He's gone quiet now after being brighter this morning :( So when he comes out of hiding after being prodded and poked, Ill give him some more fluid :(

    Currently having:
    1.4ml Potassium supplement twice daily
    Ranitidine .5ml twice daily
    Pure Colloidal Silver in water and in mouth

    He's currently having a bit of a paw wash, which he hasn't really done
     
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  77. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    AJay, I hope you managed to get some rest. You must be totally knackered. Love those numbers from last night! Go Chester! Looks like his AMPS might have been down a bit lower this AM giving him a jump on even better numbers today?:)

    Hopefully someone else will chime in about the slippery elm and Pysllium husk as I have never used either with my furballs. I just wonder if some of the liquid poo with the husk apparent, is due to less food intake/liquid convalescence food...maybe back off on the amount being given as it apparently can cause loose stool if too much is given. Just food for thought......
     
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  78. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Thanks @MrWorfMen's Mom. I'm coping lol. Always been a bit of a cat nap person ;) It's the 48hrs with only 2 hrs sleep that kills me.

    Generally he's been having soft squished chicken. It was this morning I started on the Liquivite.

    Are there any probiotics that are safe for diabetics? Wondering if that might help. More n more I think we're looking st digestive tract issues. :(

    I'll be getting more test results just before I give him his fluids. He'd had enough of me this morning and went into hiding :(
     
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  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Glad you can take cat naps...I they help but the lack of a full night's sleep still takes it's toll.

    There are probiotics for humans that folks use for their kitties but I'll have to search a bit to get some names and even then I think they are likely to be US products so may not be of much help. Maybe @Elizabeth and Bertie knows of products you can get there.

    Are you thinking maybe IBD? Another member near me has a kitty with IBD and she found diet was the key. Any attempt to change diet seemed to set off the loose stool and the wet food she could use was very limited. Do you know what Chester was eating before his adoption? I would hope that if he had displayed any bowel issues while in adoptive care they would have let you know but maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. :( Even if the carbs in previous diet are too high, it might be worth a try to get the bowel issues under control. Insulin can be increased to account for the higher carbs. If it is IBD, Chester may be having some tummy discomfort/gas and the psyllium might be making the gas worse. I'm not experienced with IBD myself so just thinking out loud here. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  80. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    When I picked him up he was on prescription dry :( Would that not dehydrate further potentially?

    Yes, I had noticed that any changes sparks a tummy upset hence keeping it as simple as I could. But he's not eating much right now because of all of this going on. Sometimes feels like an insurmountable mountain :(

    His faeces on dry were solid. He was also solid at the vets on prescription wet food with fluids (and electrolytes) being pumped thru...

    Ideas? :(
     
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  81. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
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  82. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    I too would expect the dry to dehydrate him further but then one has to ask why the vet was feeding it when Chester was needing fluids. I think the key here is first and foremost to find food he will eat that doesn't set off bowel issues. Both fluid amounts and insulin can be increased accordingly if need be so might still be worth a try because he's still losing fluids with the loose stools so it seems somewhat of a trade off right now.
     
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  83. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    any way you can get plain canned pumkin with no spices? That may help with the diarrhea and adds extra moisture to his diet. A tablespoon mixed in with his food. FortiFlora may help as well as a flavor enhancer/probiotic sprinkled on the food.

    Praying for you and Chester
     
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  84. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I have to go out shortly. Will look into getting SS fixed when I get back. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  85. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I love the curve numbers from yesterday! I have no experience with IBD issues so I can't weigh in. There are many members who do, though, and that website Linda gave you a link for is often cited.
     
  86. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Glad to hear he did well during the night. Bone broth helps coat the intestinal tract. It might also help to keep him eating. Is this something you might be able to do? I used slow cooker, then froze in ice cube trays. Take one cube out when needed, I would use about 1/2-1 tsp a day on his breakfast food, one cube would last me 3 days. One batch of broth would last quite awhile.

    http://www.ibdkitties.net/bone-broth/
     
  87. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Just a warning on the Ranitidine that was listed in meds being given. My kitty Leo has IBD and was having problems with motility and hair ball elimination. Specialist recommended the ranitidine to move things along with the hair, and diarrhea followed. It can cause diarrhea and very loose stools in some cats. The pepcidAC works much better for my kitty but then again as we all know every cat is different.
     
  88. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Thanks for the replies :)
    Briefly...
    bone broth - tick :)
    Ranitidine (insert v angry face!)
    Pepcid ac - not in uk.. main ingredient famitadine. Struggling to find here.

    Can I give omaprazole? I have some at home I think

    Running round pharmacies atm
     
  89. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    I'm pretty sure that omaprazole has been used but I have no idea what dose, etc. Famotadine (Pepcid AC) is a common med used for cats. I'm surprised it is not in common use in the UK. Does it go by another name possibly?
     
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  90. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Not sure about omeprazole - different mechanism of action: PPI (proton pump inhibitor) instead of H2 receptor antagonist.
     
  91. AJay

    AJay Member

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    Jul 31, 2017
  92. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
  93. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    @Kris & Teasel - whoosh! Straight over my fried head atm :(
    Basically we need to protect EVERYTHING digestive linked with him. He's feeling icky, tum is sore :( He's hungry but it hurts. He's going to have tummy acid cos of not eating.

    Food going thru undigested. :( I have a few probiotics that were recommended.

    Sorry it's brief. I'm trying to catch shops before they close because of bank holiday in uk

    Can't get fortiflora from shops- has to be online. :( Even went into the store that showed it in stock :(
     
  94. AJay

    AJay Member

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    Jul 31, 2017
    @Kris & Teasel
     
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  95. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I've read a little online and rantidine is used fairly routinely in dogs and cats. Like any med it can cause issues with some kitties. You're in a special situation where you want to try everything to soothe his innards. I'd try the rantidine if that's what you can get.
     
  96. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    That would seem to be the problem Kris That's what the vet has given me.. (along with incorrect dosage of insulin... - different story)
     
  97. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Calcium carbonate? Mag carb, sodium bicarbonate? 3 ingredients in Bisodol?
    Am in last ditch pharmacy attempt here :(
     
  98. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Ranitidine for now. I think others have mentioned SEB, or slippery elm bark (health food store), to soothe but it needs to be given a couple of hours away from medications because it can interfere with absorption. I suggest posting here for info about it. I have no experience with it.
     
  99. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    You are amazing. You are a warrior.
     
  100. AJay

    AJay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Kris, sorry, I keep saying. THIS may be part of his problem :'(
    I have also had him on SE andPH. It is coming straight thru undigested.

    Can you think of anything else? This is really destroying me :'(
     
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