3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188 +5 ~338

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by yo hon, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Mar 16, 2013
    6:17 a.m. eastern BG HI, tested twice, once in each ear. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I don't know much about your insulin, but I would give him his regular dose (2 units is it?).
    At least that will get some insulin in him, until someone who knows more about N can stop by and help you.
     
  3. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Dyana, thank you. I called the Vet, they will not return my call. Give him the two units, then feed him ????? He is starving, I got up at 5:30 so I could get him fed early.

    Re-tested him a third time at 6:41 still came up Hi
     
  4. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Now the Vet called. They want me to bring him to do another curve on him today. NOW, will someone PLEASE, PLEASE HELP !!!!! I really do not want to do that, cause they will take him back to five units. HELP, PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    First breathe. He should come down once he gets some insulin in him. He is on Novolin N? and how much is he dosed? When was the last time you dosed him and how much? I am going to go look for an expert; please stand by. It will be okay :D
     
  6. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Are you still there? Have you ever done a curve on Rags? How good are you at home-testing??? My cat has been high many, many times. How is Rags feeling? Here are the five P's we use to see how a cat is feeling. Which ones does Rags have:

    Peeing
    Preening
    Pooing
    Purring
    Playing
     
  7. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I just gave him 2 units of Novolin N-100. His last dose yesterday 3/26 eastern was at 7:55 p.m. - 2 units. At 9:55 p.m. eastern BG was 254.

    He did poop this a.m. and he did one pee-pee.

    Can I give him some food now, cause he is sooooo hungry ???

    Thank you so much for your help !


    Yes, I,ve been doing curves all week, his poor ears are going to fall off. Just tried a new Relio meter yesterday, it only tells me "HI", my accu check gave me numbers. the test strips are too expensive and I ran out. I,m ok with the meter.
     
  8. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    When was the last time he ate? My cat is on Lantus and the only time I don't feed him is 2 hours before his shot, though Novolin may be different. I posted help on the Lantus board and on the FB FBMB group for you. If it was me, I would most certainly NOT have the vet do the curve; you can just do that yourself. I looked at Rags SS and see he is very newly diagnosed. High numbers are not unusual in a newly diagnosed cat. My Gobbles still has high numbers from time to time: the other day I got readings in the 400s and even 557! A curve is this: take a blood glucose reading every 2 hours for one cycle (one cycle = 12 hour period and therefore, you would only be doing 7 tests :) There aren't very many cats here on Novolin which is probably why there haven't been experts here yet to help. I am certainly not an expert, but will stay with you this morning.
     
  9. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    And a ReliOn meter is a very good one. I have one and have used it in the past. Many, many members here use the ReliOn. When you test twice: just do one poke and use the same drop of blood for each test--just make sure it is a pretty big drop of blood; you don't have to take two pokes. So at 6:17 am est, he was "Hi". I am in Ohio, so in the same timezone. You have your first reading for your curve today. Take another reading at 8:15 am and please fill it in on his SS.
     
  10. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    If it was me and I had not fed my Gobbles, I would go ahead and feed him wet, low carb canned food. I just read on Rags Profile that he eats FF Pate--perfect!
     
  11. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    PLEASE, I NEED AN ANSWER !!! My boy is starving. At 8:00 a.m. eastern ifed him 3/4 can of ff. He wants more, can I give him more ? I know food makes he sugar go up and I don't know what to do.

    My other cat is still missing, been 24 hours, so I'm STRESSED ! like you all didn't know.
     
  12. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    PLEASE, I NEED AN ANSWER !!! My boy is starving. At 8:00 a.m. eastern ifed him 3/4 can of ff. He wants more, can I give him more ? I know food makes he sugar go up and I don't know what to do.

    My other cat is still missing, been 24 hours, so I'm STRESSED ! like you all didn't know.
     
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Morning. Exhaustion hit and up late today.
    Thanks Momma of Muse for stepping in with some help this morning. Much appreciated.

    Becki, take Deep breaths, deep breaths. Calm down, we know you can handle it.

    Becki, You have been told in previous posts that with the Novolin N you must test, feed and shoot with the Novolin N.
    1. AMPS -morning test
    2. feed - harsh acting insulin so must make sure food is on board
    3. shoot - after food is eaten, it's ok to shoot

    No shoot criteria:
    1. BG <200 - we do not have enough test data yet to safely shoot a BG this low. Later we will.
    2. not eating - insulin drops the numbers, food raises the numbers
    3. vomiting - insulin drops the numbers and if vomiting up the food, no way for the numbers to rise normally

    Print this out and keep a copy at the front of your notebook, maybe a copy on your fridge, one taped to the bathroom mirror and one taped to Rags forehead. :D :eek: :D Just kidding on that last location but you need to laugh.

    Please take the 911 icon off your original post. There is no health emergency here now.
     
  14. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I'd feed him more. Yes, the food makes the sugar go up but you are feeding him the FF pates; correct? He has to eat and his sugar will come down. Now, if it was a food with gravy or dry, the sugar would go higher. I'm glad you fed him; did you get another test done yet? If not, can you ? :D
     
  15. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I don't know about your insulin, but I would say you can feed him. Yes, it might make his BG go up some, but you already gave him insulin. I would think he needs something in his system so he doesn't crash. I'm no expert. I don't know your insulin, but I would let him have his breakfast.

    High blood sugar is not good, but blood sugar that's too low can be deadly.

    My Chester is still getting regulated and we're still trying to find his dose. He still has numbers in the 500-600+ range at least once a week. It's something to be concerned about, but not worried - if you can get the difference.

    You can run your curve at home. Just take a BG test every two hours and keep track of the numbers. You can call the vet later with all the results. My vet doesn't even want numbers every two hours, but it might be better to have more data than not enough.
     
  16. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Also as far as the vet run curve it is not needed, just test him every two hours between the am and pm shot, record it in your spreadsheet, print that spread sheet and take it to your vet. They aren't going to be able to do anything different than what you have been doing. Plus their numbers will be inflated due to Vet Stress, so your numbers are truer. If they can't work with you off your numbers then request a copy of everything in Rags' file and start shopping for a new vet.

    Remember your vet works for you, not the other way around.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  17. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Hi Deb. I assume you mean me? I helped out as I could; I know nothing about Novolin. Stepping Out now. Thanks!
     
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki,

    I know you have to go to work today. Go. Rags will be fine. I know you also have some other appointments that are very important for you to keep. Go. Rags will be fine.

    Rags was in high numbers for probably months before you got the diabetes diagnosis. Rags was fine. He'll be fine for one more day. Yes, high numbers are a concern but not so dangerous if no presence of ketones.

    No smell of acetone/nail polish remover/sickly sweet fruity odor on the breath and that means no ketones so no need to panic. Rags will be fine.

    You've done some testing the last couple of days and we know that Rags drops quickly and hits nadir around +3 but not dangerously low on that 2u of insulin. We know that the duration is around +6 and he might need a boost then as his numbers go back up quickly.

    We'll do the curve tonight. One reason we got you home testing is so that you could do those curves at home and save yourself a ton of money. My vet charges around $100 for 6 blood draws for a curve. With the Relion Prime meter you are using now, each test strip costs 18 cents so you can get the same 6 blood tests for $1.08.
     
  19. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    8:20a.m. eastern BG HI.
     
  20. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I have no idea where my post went.

    With N, you should be feeding 20 - 30 min. prior to shooting. You can then feed throughout the cycle until +10. With Novolin, you need to keep food on board. This is a harsh, relatively fast acting insulin so making sure food is on board is important to prevent Rags from crashing. It doesn't matter if numbers are high -- your cat needs to eat.

    Have you given any thought to discussing a different insulin with your vet? The current recommendations of the American Animal Hospital Assn include Prozinc or Lantus for diabetic cats. Novolin is good for dogs -- not so much for cats.


    Rags is bouncing off of some of the numbers from below 200. This is normal at this stage of the game. It's also due to using Novolin. It tends to slam numbers down and as a result, they bounce back up.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Thank you BowHuntress I meant. ohmygod_smile Still waking up this morning and got confused before that first cup of :coffee:. Actually, it's decaffeinated tea so probably not much help to pop those eyes open and get the names straight. :lol:
     
  22. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    :lol: Maybe you need a cup of Starbucks? :lol: I am so confused in the morning; it takes me 2 cups of coffee to just remember my name :lol:
     
  23. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Deb & Wink, thank you for all the supplies. They came just now. No I am NOT going to work today, but I also don't want to stick my boy all day. I did get the neosporin pain oint. Edna brought it to me yesterday. His ears are so sore from all the curves we have been doing. I still have to call the Vet back and tell him we sre not coming.

    JUST TOOK his Bg and it's still HI, however, he just ate 3/4 can of ff at 8:00 and is starving. jst don't know what to do' still have to go out and look formy Sweetie Pie, she has NEVER been gone for 24 hours.

    I am planning on going to work tomorrow. I have to.
     
  24. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki, You're welcome on the supplies. I had just checked the tracking information on that package and it said it was left at your front door at 5:43 this morning. Gotta love the internet and the capability to track a package these days!

    Remember, there are the ketone test strips in there too as well as plenty of test strips.

    Take another BG at +2. Novolin has an onset of 1 to 2 hours and it might not have hit yet.

    And remember, you can feed him LOTS right now, just not two hours before the AMPS test and the PMPS test when he will be getting his insulin doses.
     
  25. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki,

    Honey breathe....I have a little girl laying on my lap right purring her brains out that I adopted as a diabetic after she went 10+ months after she was dxed as a diabetic without getting any insulin or diet change at all...Her BGs were also HI many times when I first got her...and she is still just fine. I know those HIs are scary but they aren't nearly as scary as having the meter just say LO...LO is when it is dangerous.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  26. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    You might try a piece or two of that dry Royal Canin dry food as a treat for now. He got into it yesterday so we know he likes it. It shouldn't raise his BG much at all with just a tiny piece.

    Also this isnt a 911.. can you remove the icon? 911 implies there is an emergency or danger of death and I don't think/ hope that isn't the case!
     
  27. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Remember, I'm a "NEWBIE" i have NO IDEA WHAT THESE ICONS MEAN, there is NO explanation.

    Are youn happy now ? The icon is gone.

    The pachage was NOT delivered at 5:43 a.m. , it was here by 9:30 a.m. FYI

    Just fed him another 3/4 of a can, so I don't want to take BG for a little while longer.
     
  28. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Actually there is an explanation of the icons here. You just might not have found it yet.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  29. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki - please go back to yesterday's post and read and print them.

    Especially the ones from Deb & Wink - she armed you with the information you need to say to the vet as to why you want to change insulins - you don't need to memorize this, you can simply read it to her. Then call the vet and say everything on this page to her. You may even want to take all the information in and hand it to her. Because honestly, you need to get off this insulin as quickly as possible and onto one that will work better for Rags. I think you know this, but you need to be able to say it to the vet!

    Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91822

    Here is what she wrote:

    At 9:09 this morning, Deb & Wink gave you a whole bunch of information on why you wanted to change insulin.

    Did you present any of this information to the vet when you talked with her? Did you read and understand that information before talking to your vet?

    Here is one more reason:

    According to the University of Queensland dosing protocol for NPH types of insulin states " if nadir blood glucose concentration occurs within 3 hours of insulin administration, or blood glucose returns to baseline within 8 hours then change to longer acting insulin (i.e. Glargine, detemir, PZI) "

    Your nadirs the last two days have been around +3 and your +6 was up above baseline. Not enough duration with this insulin.

    Why you want Lantus, a better insulin for Rags:
    1. better chance of remission
    2. longer duration
    3. cheaper price with savings card
    4. less harsh on a cat (i.e. does not plummet the numbers down quickly and shoot them up quickly.
    5. avoid DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis)

    You will get bouncing numbers on any insulin at first. That is very common. Not a good reason.

    I sought back through the posts and some of the things you told us about your vets advice. From that I picked out these reasons why you do not listen to your vet:
    1. initial high dose prescribed and sent cat into hypo
    2. being told what to do by the receptionist, not a vet
    3. when you contacted the vet office about the hypo, was told there was no one around to help you. they were all at lunch
    4. after the hypo, told to still keep giving the 5 units of Novolin N 2 x a day
    5. you feel they are endangering you kitty by insisting you keep giving him this high dose even though the protocol says " If nadir blood glucose concentration is < 54mg/dl (3mmol/L) then Dose should be reduced by 50%"

    If you go back and reread through your posts, you can probably come up with some more reasons than I found.

    By the way, the quotes in here are from the University of Queensland Dosing protocol for cats on lente or NPH insulin. Here is the link again:
    http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link2.pdf This protocol is dated 2009 so is as current as I could find.

    I would suggest that you open this link and print this out and give the copy to your vet. It would be a good idea to print a second copy for your diabetes quick reference information folder.

    Trying to 'arm you with information'.

    I said yesterday that I would try to find some articles on why you want Lantus for your diabetic cat so you would have some information to give to the vet to convince them to write you a prescription.

    Here is some research that talks about Lantus, the dosing protocol, how it is the best for newly diagnosed cats, how low carb diet is key, how twice a day injections are better. These are some of the talking points you will need to convince your vet to write a prescription for Lantus Solostar Pens.

    Here is the dosing protocol for Lantus from the University of Queensland Centre for Companion Animal Health : http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

    Here is the article that states on page 4 the Glargine (Lantus) is the preferred insulin in newly diagnosed diabetic cats. http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetes ... ticle5.pdf

    It also talks about the difficulty of achieving gylcemic control with the NPH insulins (Novolin, Humulin) under the "Insulin Therapy" section on page 1.
    Quote:
    Achieving good glycemic control with intermediate acting potent insulins such as NPH, lente and ultralente is often difficult, and increases the risk of clinical hypoglycemia. Recent data indicates that the long-acting insulins such as glargine or determir provide better glycemic control and reduced risk of clinical hypoglycemia when given twice daily and combined with a low carbohydrate diet. Of the insulins available that have been studied in cats, glargine or detemir appear to be the insulin of choice.


    On page 3, under the section "Glargine" , third paragraph the article talks about the importance of early good glycemic control.
    Quote:
    but superior glycemic control is achieved if insulin is injected twice daily. This is of particular importance in newly diagnosed cats in which prompt good glycemic control may result in remission, hence the recommendation for BID dosing in new diabetic cats.


    Another reason you want to switch is the Lantus gives Rags a better chance of achieving remission and you want to give him that chance.
    Quote:
    It is the authors’ experience that newly diagnosed diabetic cats that have good glycemic control within the first few weeks of therapy, are very likely to go into diabetic remission. Cats that have been long-term diabetics are less likely to go into remission probably because of progressive b-cell loss


    Another argument you can use is you can get the Lantus for half the price you paid for the Novolin. You found a savings card from the manufacturer that will let you save money on the Solostar pens.

    Let us now how that phone call and conversation with the vet goes.
     
  30. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    We have consistently told you to test him first, then feed him, wait a 1/2 hr. then shoot him.

    Using CAPS usually means a person is screaming at someone.

    Carl and I were both on late last night waiting for a post from you......hoping you would get a +4.

    Very few people on this board now have ever used the N insulin and the ones who did years ago are no longer posting.

    Even if we give him more insulin at night the duration of N is still going to be short but increasing it too much and too fast very well could hypo him.

    You do not need to take him to the vet for a curve. That costs money and he'll be stressed.

    His ears will be fine. During a hypo event some cats are tested every 15-20 minutes.

    Today the numbers will show us if needs another 1/2 unit of N to keep him from going way back up.
    That is why I was hoping you would post again last night to see if insulin was no longer working, his numbers were going back up and we may have been able to prevent him racing back up to a high reading.

    His body is trying to adjust to utilizing food and insulin together. It takes time...you cannot rush it.
     
  31. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I know you're frantic to get this fixed. Unfortunately, it isn't a "fix", its treatment that is ongoing for many, many cats. There have been folks who got there cat regulated using an insulin like Novolin, its just harder.

    Some things you may find helpful to know, summarized:

    1) Novolin will last, at most 8 hours; then the glucose rises, often higher than the meter can show (says "HI"). The number does not matter - high, 300, 600, whatever, its higher than we want the cat to have. No need to panic, it just means the diabetes isn't controlled, which you already know.

    2) Because Novolin lasts only 8 hours, dosing every 8 hours may keep the glucose under better control. That's a difficult schedule for many folks to keep. The alternative to that is to pick up all food 8 hours after the shot. This can be hard on the cat because he's hungry.

    3) Diabetic cats are hungry because the body is unable to use the calories without enough insulin. Feeding about 50% more while you work on getting him stable can help with the 'hungries'. Add a tablespoon or so of water to the food to provide volume and help offset the excessive urination from the diabetes. Sometimes, spreading out some of the food into 2-3 meals helps keep the cat from becoming too hungry, plus smooths out the effect on blood glucose. If you're not home to do that, you can freeze some of it, to thaw and be consumed more slowly.

    4) With Novolin, you test, feed, and about 30 minutes or so, shoot. Given that you are dosing twice a day right now, and the pre-tests are saying "Hi", maybe wait the 15 minutes and shoot. The insulin will start workin on the "HI" and the food will start kicking in about 2 hours later. Once the pre-tests are around 300, then you definitely want to wait that 30 minutes for the food to get a head start on the insulin.

    5) Start at the top of the Feline Health forum and read over the posts that talk about important information for using the forum. Take your time. There isn't a test. Its more about orienting yourself to how the message boards work, how insulin works, standards of care, food information resources, and so on.

    6) Breathe - Exhale completely first, because you're probably so tense you aren't doing that. Now slowly breathe in fully, and comfortably. Repeat for about 10-15 minutes. This will help your blood pressure and heart rate to come down, and the muscle tension to relax some. (based on the work of Herbert Benson, author of "The Relaxation Response" 2nd edition)

    7) in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools, there are some tactics that may be used in urine ketone monitoring, plus some other things you may observe about your cat, such as the 5 Ps, amounts of food and water consumption and elimination. They help give a "Whole Cat Report", 'cause it isn't just about numbers. You want your Rags to feel good and do the things he used to do.

    8) What you're aiming for is an insulin dose which keeps the glucose level above 50 on a human glucometer and below 240, which the level at which glucose starts spilling into the urine. If the glucose can be kept lower than 240 while staying above 50, so much the better. You just find what works for your cat.
     
  32. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    I'm sorry for all the miscommunications I've been sending out, but I just don't know your lingo yet. I'm slowly learning from eveything that I have done wrong ! and it does seem that I do nothing right here !!! When I write in caps , it's just to reinerate what I've siad many times before. I am not screaming at anyone ! I do appreciate all the help you have all been giving me.

    As I've said I have spoken to the VEt about new insulin and she is not comfortable in changing it. She told me to find another Doc if I didn't like what she was doing. And as I've stated before I am not financially able to d that. I'm stuck !!!

    I did print out all the information that Deb put on here last night, but it was all done long after I spoke to the Doc and she is very mad at me because I asked her to change Insulins. She deals with the University Of Penn. I thought we were paying our Doc's to work for us, but guess I'm wrong again !

    I did post my number last night. At 9:55 p.m. his BG was 254. I posted it !!! I do not know why you didn't see it. That is the very first thing I do after I take his BG. Which I have to do now.

    I also have a lost baby for 24 hours and have to go searching for her, I have no on eto help me with anything, I'm sorry for all the confusion. There is alot going on with me rightnow ad i can't even think straight. Not to mention losing work .

    I was told this a.m. to give him the 2 units and wait for someone to get back to me, that's why he was dosed first.

    I'm going to go mtest him now, it's been two hours since he ate.
     
  33. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Tips on lost cat search:

    Look under bushes; I found one lost, deaf cat under overgrown shrubs 15 feet from the house. Look up in trees; my sister's cat got stuck in the crotch of a tree, balancing on a branch wedged into the tree. (He also fell out of the tree when the branch dislodged, and was OK.)

    Ask neighbors if you can search their yards; you'll do a better job than they will.

    Put out food and water. Yes, you may attrach a raccoon or opossum. You may also attract your cat.

    Drag a scent trail using a pillow case or towel with your scent on it, especially if it has rained or snowed since the cat went missing. Focus on areas next to buildings, near shrubs or overgrown grasses.

    Flyers: make it big enough to read if posting by stop signs.

    Recruit folks to help, especially youth. Perhaps some church group, Girl or Boy Scouts might help, if you ask.
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki we are all trying to help you but quite frankly, you seem to be fighting with us. Your tone is becoming rude and you may not realize it but that type of behavior can lead to suspension and eventual banning on this board. Here is a link that talks about warnings/suspensions/banning http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38635

    You need to read and reply in a courteous manner to the people that are trying to help you. Capitals are considered shouting and may be used for some emphasis but not how you did without being considered rude.

    As an example of where we do not see a response from you would be in your post from yesterday. You might not realize this, but there were at least two people, Hope and Carl, up late waiting and watching for you to post a +4 number. Nothing from you. If someone on here asks you to do something they are waiting and expect an answer. If you were not able to get a +4 for what ever reason, couldn't find Rags, couldn't get the blood drop, exhaustion so you needed to go to bed, didn't want to do as suggested, whatever, the courteous thing to do would have been to post the reason so you were not keeping people up.

    Everyone on here is trying to do the best we can to help you. We are all volunteers, have regular jobs, homes and family to take care of, our own responsibilities and many of us are single caregivers with no one else to step in to take over the home testing and giving of shots. Our only expected payment from you for our suggestions is a response in your post and a thank you now and then.

    If someone asks if you can do a +2 or print out some information or includes a link in their reply, we expect you to look at that link, reply that yes, you are around to get a +2 and post the results or let us know that you are not able to do something.

    We have been giving you a ton of information in the last two days and know it is a lot to take in but it does not appear you are reading any of it or doing any of the research suggested. An example is the links I gave you for data to convince your vet as to why you wanted Lantus. Did you look at it? Come up with a plan for talking with your vet? No, you panicked when you got a high reading, called your vet and probably said something like "Give me a prescription for Lantus, NOW." with no reasoning behind it. You need to sell your reasons to the vet. I gave you those reasons. Even added another post with bullet points, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. And now your vet is not willing to work with you? They have never use Lantus insulin with cats? Is that why? or is there some other reason?

    I probably spent two hours yesterday doing that research and putting together a plan for you to talk to your vet. I even researched pharmacies in your area and sent you a PM with the list of the names for you to contact them about their willingness to split a single pen out of the box and sell it. I told you that Walmart will not do this. You need to do the research yourself on finding a willing pharmacy. We do not have the time to do this for you.

    Bottom line is, you need to step up, put on your "big girl panties" , act like an adult and take responsibility here for Rags care. Just do it girlfriend. For Rags sake, please if for no other reason.

    I am so upset I am in tears as I am writing this and my hands are shaking. I will be stepping away from this for a while to maintain my own sanity.
     
  35. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Also check with local rescues and humane societies to see if anyone has turned in a cat matching the missing one, if you have an extra litter box that has been used put it outside many times that will attract the missing kitty back home.

    Another place to check is anyone in the neighborhood that is feeding strays and ferals. We had one go missing for 10 months and finally got a call that he had shown up at a feeding station of a local TNR group (Trap, Neuter, Release). And that is how we got him back home.

    If your community has a local radio call in show, call them and ask them to broadcast that you have a missing kitty and give a description. Also check with all local vets and leave a description or even better a picture. So they can also be on the lookout for it coming into their clinic.

    Also the best time to go out and call is at night when everything is still because your voice will carry better.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  36. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    11:30 a.m eastern BG 188, good right? Just to make sure, he can eat some more, right ? I am sorry, but my head is sooo scrambled !
     
  37. Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Yes, he can eat more now.
     
  38. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Thank you for all the help with my Sweetie Pie. I've already called the neighbors, went out scouting last night and today. It's just not like her to do this. I still have to call Animal Control. Again, I thank You all !!!!

    Deb, Please don't be upset with me, you know what is going on, well some of it. My head is all scrambled and Don't know what I'm doing anymore. Last night I couldn't remember when to test before his dinner, my mind is just going blank ! Please try and understand the stress that I'm under besides Rags. I hope you read my post which should have answered all the things that you said to me in your post.

    I spoke to the Doc yesterday Morning, you knew that, you put the info. on the computer much later. I printed out everything on my computer on yesterdays post last night. So Yes, I do read the info. I do Not always comprehend everything I read,as I have ADHD and never have. Did terrible in school.

    I do appreciate everything that you have done for me, I really do. I just didn't understand what the icons meant nor did I understand that capitalizing means I'm screaming at people. Never heard that one before and I am sorry.

    Yes, I am very tired as I'm not getting any quality rest. I'm worried about getting Epstein back because I'm not eating or sleeping.

    Again, please accept my apology as I have never meant to hurt anyone. I do what the Forum tells me to do, and sometimes I think people do not read my posts because they say things that they should be aware of that I can't do. I'm not trying to be smart, it's frustrating because I do not like to poor mouth ! But i feel that's all I do on here. No More !!! I'll try to do the right thing from now on. Your gonna have to teach me the rules. HA, laugh, will you ???

    Becki & Rags
     
  39. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki, please post his number with a +2 or whatever when you do post. If this is a +2 he has really dropped from that HI reading. Some meters only go to 500 and then they just read HI.

    You can feed him more if he wants it because I doubt the insulin is through working. It may help slow the drop down.
     
  40. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    When should I test again ? Is he ok til dinner now ?
     
  41. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    Becki - you don't have to try to remember the basics you are being told - rather do this -

    Print out the instructions that Hope and Deb have provided - look in yesterday's post and put it on your fridge, this way, you can read what you need to do and in what order to do it and not try to remember it

    Doesn't that seem to make sense and be an easier way of dealing with this, along with everything else in your life.

    To make it very simple:

    1) Get pre-shot test

    2) feed cat

    3) wait 30 minutes

    4) shoot 1 1/2 unit of insulin (note this amount may change)

    5) feed cat

    6) get +2 test

    7) feed cat

    8) get +4 test

    9) feed cat

    10) get +6 test

    11) feed cat

    12) get +8 test

    13) from +10 - pre-shot - NO FOOD

    14) repeat steps 1 - 13

    Does that make sense? Write this down and/or print this out and put it on your refrigerator so you don't have to think about what to do and when.



    And print this too:

    I know you're frantic to get this fixed. Unfortunately, it isn't a "fix", its treatment that is ongoing for many, many cats. There have been folks who got there cat regulated using an insulin like Novolin, its just harder.

    Some things you may find helpful to know, summarized:

    1) Novolin will last, at most 8 hours; then the glucose rises, often higher than the meter can show (says "HI"). The number does not matter - high, 300, 600, whatever, its higher than we want the cat to have. No need to panic, it just means the diabetes isn't controlled, which you already know.

    2) Because Novolin lasts only 8 hours, dosing every 8 hours may keep the glucose under better control. That's a difficult schedule for many folks to keep. The alternative to that is to pick up all food 8 hours after the shot. This can be hard on the cat because he's hungry.

    3) Diabetic cats are hungry because the body is unable to use the calories without enough insulin. Feeding about 50% more while you work on getting him stable can help with the 'hungries'. Add a tablespoon or so of water to the food to provide volume and help offset the excessive urination from the diabetes. Sometimes, spreading out some of the food into 2-3 meals helps keep the cat from becoming too hungry, plus smooths out the effect on blood glucose. If you're not home to do that, you can freeze some of it, to thaw and be consumed more slowly.

    4) With Novolin, you test, feed, and about 30 minutes or so, shoot. Given that you are dosing twice a day right now, and the pre-tests are saying "Hi", maybe wait the 15 minutes and shoot. The insulin will start workin on the "HI" and the food will start kicking in about 2 hours later. Once the pre-tests are around 300, then you definitely want to wait that 30 minutes for the food to get a head start on the insulin.

    5) Start at the top of the Feline Health forum and read over the posts that talk about important information for using the forum. Take your time. There isn't a test. Its more about orienting yourself to how the message boards work, how insulin works, standards of care, food information resources, and so on.

    6) Breathe - Exhale completely first, because you're probably so tense you aren't doing that. Now slowly breathe in fully, and comfortably. Repeat for about 10-15 minutes. This will help your blood pressure and heart rate to come down, and the muscle tension to relax some. (based on the work of Herbert Benson, author of "The Relaxation Response" 2nd edition)

    7) in BJM signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools, there are some tactics that may be used in urine ketone monitoring, plus some other things you may observe about your cat, such as the 5 Ps, amounts of food and water consumption and elimination. They help give a "Whole Cat Report", 'cause it isn't just about numbers. You want your Rags to feel good and do the things he used to do.

    8) What you're aiming for is an insulin dose which keeps the glucose level above 50 on a human glucometer and below 240, which the level at which glucose starts spilling into the urine. If the glucose can be kept lower than 240 while staying above 50, so much the better. You just find what works for your cat.
     
  42. Re: 3/27/13 Rags


    No. Because he dropped that much and that fast, it would be good to get another test an hour after the time you got that one.
     
  43. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags

    No...he is not okay till dinner. If that 188 is at +2 and say the meter read HI which was at least 500.....then in the last 2 hrs. he has dropped over 300 points. He's dropped an average of 150 an hr if that is a +2. He may drop more.....he may eventually shoot back up. Like yesterday...if he starts going back up and we see it, we can then decide whether to hit him with a 1/2 unit of N again.

    Until you can get another, better insulin, what I would really like to see you do is go t.i.d. (3x a day) on the dosing. You would take the total dose of a day which is 4 units and divide by 3. Best we could do would be, depending on his numbers, is 1 unit, maybe 1 1/2 units every 6 or 7 hrs. Testing will help tell us when the insulin is no longer working and he is going back up so we could get a handle on the t.i.d whether it would be every 6 hrs., or 7hrs. From his previous tests he is not getting long duration.
     
  44. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    Yo Hon. Please keep your spread sheet updated. All you have is this morning's Hi. Also indicate how much and when you feed. It is very hard to go through all your posts to get the complete story.
     
  45. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    I did not see subject line that stated +4 was 188. That's okay. I thought it was +2. Now we need to find out when he has peaked. I doubt he'll make it to +6 before he starts going up again. Looks like he's been dropping approx. 78 points an hr. Food given now will slow it down but if insulin is still working shouldn't affect him too much and he should still move down. Time will tell. Can we get a +6 please.
     
  46. Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    I updated the subject line.

    Becki, you can do that at any time too. Just go to the very first post in your thread, click on "edit" and you can make changes to the subject of the thread. It helps people see what is going on before they even open the thread to read it or help you.
     
  47. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    This was posted on yesterday's post...

    Re: 3/26/Rags
    by Mary & Stormy Blue » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:21 pm

    Suggestion: A lot of people are not comfortable with the idea, but for some people, this is the only recourse: Craigslist.org.
    My Aunt's kitty is on lantus and her vet flat out refuses to write an RX for it - vet wants her to have him on prozinc.
    So, she gets her lantus off of craigslist. Generally a box of 5 pens costs her around $100 and those 5 pens last her 5 months and no RX is required that way. It tends to be individuals that are selling off their own RX for whatever reason. Might be worth looking into for your baby if your vet is non-cooperative.

    ~M
    Mary & Stormy Blue

    Posts: 703
    Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:39 pm
    Location: Dallas, TX area
    Member since: 01 May 2009
    Private messageWebsite
     
  48. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    Carl, some of us are always on the thread and that is why I didn't see the +4 reading ;-) It needs to be stated in her newest post what the + time reading is. Geez, I was thinking it was a +2 reading :eek:
     
  49. Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    I had to search the thread but if I got it right, she shot 2u around 7:30, got another HI at 8:30, and posted the 188 around 11:30?

    AMPS HI (2u)
    +1 ~ HI
    +4 ~ 188

    (Becki - that's how you can recap the day in "our language" and we'll all get it. We don't use real times because we're all in different time zones)
     
  50. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Re: 3/27/13 Rags - AMPS ~ HI +4 ~ 188

    12:40 p.m. eastern BG 338, sorry I'm late I was reading old posts haev't had a chance to read new ones which I will do as soon as I finish my SS.

    Thank you all !
     
  51. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Becki

    You've mentioned the ADHD and I've done some reading on that. I know that sometimes, for some folks with this, it may be difficult to focus on just one thing. I also know that sometimes, for some folks with this, if you do get focused, sometimes it can be difficult to switch.

    What specific things will help us help you? If there are specific things that will help, and we know what they are, we can do a better job of assisting you.

    (In a former life, I obtained a graduate degree in counseling and worked a crisis line for 4 years)
     
  52. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Sorry, but I don't know how to put these numbers on his SS. Because I took BG at : 6:17 a.m. BG HI
    6:41 a.m. BG HI
    8:40 a.m. BG HI
    11:30 a.m. BG 188
    12:40 p.m. BG 338
    I don't know wat plus's to put then all under. Also where do you put his food in remarks ?

    Please Advise !!!
     
  53. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, did he just eat more food? Can you get a +6 please? We need to see if he goes back down or is he now starting to go back up.
     
  54. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    The first test in the am or morning, before you give insulin, is the amps or AM Pre-shot.
    The first test in the pm or evening, before you give insulin, is the pmps or PM Pre-shot.
    when you test later in the day, you indicate how many hours since you gave insulin

    a test 1 hour after giving insulin is entered in the +1 column of the spreadsheet
    a test 2 hours later is entered in the +2 column of the spreadsheet
    and so on.

    If I understand your numbers correctly
    AMPS ~ BG HI (6:41 am); shot given (?)
    shot of 2 units (7:30?)
    + 1 ~ BG HI (8:40 am)
    + 3 ~ BG 188 (11:30 am)
    + 5 ~ BG 338 (12:40 pm)
     
  55. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    No he hasn't eaten anything since his 12:40 BG of 338. You want me to get another one now ?
     
  56. The starting point on the spreadsheet would be AMPS. That should be the time where you actually gave him his shot. I think that was around 7:30?
    As for the rest of the numbers since then, you can enter them in the + box that is closest to when you got the test. It doesn't need to be exactly "on the hour".
    You can put them in +1, +4 and +5 today.

    The food remarks go all the way to the right in the "comments" section.
     
  57. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, wait until it is a full hour past the +5 time and see what he gives us.
     
  58. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Carl, I did my spread sheet, would you check to make sure I did it right ? Also, I just got a BG @ 12:40 and someone asked me to get another, am I suppossed to do that Now ??? also, can I feed him now ?
     
  59. Just a couple things, Becki.

    In the AMPS column, put HI.
    And in the "U" column, put 2.0. That the dose of insulin you gave him, right? The rest of the line of numbers is good!
     
  60. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, I just posted to get a +6 so we know if he is going back up and insulin is through working. I said to wait the next hour, which would be 1:40 and do a +6. Carl, Deb, BJM, myself.....we are all Eastern time so we at least are in the same zone.
     
  61. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Hopee, give me a time please. I've already taken five BG's last one at 12:40. So 2:40 or 1:40 and can I feed him now ?

    I'm very confused because of the way I've beeb taking them today !!!

    Sorry, just got your 1:16 post, I'll take it at 1:40, but can he Eat after I take it again ?
     
  62. 1:40 works, Becki. And yes, he can eat more now.
     
  63. Becki,
    He can eat whenever you want to feed him. EXCEPT in the two hours before AMPS or PMPS. Just try to keep track of when you feed him, and how much, in the "comments" column.
     
  64. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, can we hold off on the food till we get a +6? Feeding him now will up his numbers some and we won't know if he is going up because insulin is pooping out or if the food raised him up.

    With N, once we find his peak, the lowest he goes, then we will have a handle on food and when to stop feeding him till it is time for his next shot in the evening. Their bodies just have to learn to adjust to it. If you keep feeding him after peak, no insulin is there to keep his numbers down. Once we know his peak, you can feed him all he wants before but none after.
     
  65. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Testing

    1) We test before giving insulin (pre-shot) to make sure it is safe to give

    2) We may test at +2 hours after giving insulin to see how fast the glucose is dropping. If the numbers suggest the drop may be too big, we'll continue testing every 2 hours (or sooner if it looks like it'll get below 50) to identify if we need to intervene.

    3) We test around the expected low point to see how low the glucose goes. For Novolin, this is around +3 to +4 hours after the shot.

    4) If the glucose goes below 50, we'll start a testing/feeding/15 minute wait and repeat process until the numbers come up to a safe level.

    5) When we have stable dose management, we'll do a curve - testing from pre-shot to pre-shot, every 2 hours.
     
  66. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, let's see what the 1:40 is first. We don't want food screwing things up.
     
  67. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    1:49 p.m. BG 533 eating 1/2 can ff

    Can he have more than that, cause he is hungry ?
     
  68. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Give him 1 unit now. Test him again in 2 hrs. please.
     
  69. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If he wants more than 1/2 can of FF, give it to him.
     
  70. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Done and Done ! I unit given and posted and entered on SS . 1/2 can ff fed @ 1:55 p.m.

    Will take BG at 4:00 p.m. Thank you !!!!!
     
  71. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Done and Done ! I unit given and posted and entered on SS . 1/2 can ff fed @ 1:55 p.m.

    Will take BG at 4:00 p.m. Thank you !!!!!
     
  72. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, how many cans of FF is he eating in the morning? Mishka would suck down 3 cans at a sitting when she was first started on insulin. I backed her off to 1 1/2 cans and an hour later another 1 1/2 cans. That settled her down. Once her body adjusted to the insulin, it was U at the time and had longer duration that N, she then only ate 1 1/2 cans and was fine.

    I will check back for the 4:00 test also.
     
  73. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Rags ate one and a half cans this a.m. and at 1:57 he ate one can and would like more. I also gave him 1 unit at 1:57 p.m.
     
  74. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Rags ate one and a half cans this a.m. and at 1:57 he ate one can and would like more. I also gave him 1 unit at 1:57 p.m.
     
  75. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    are you adding water to the food? you may want to add about 1/3 can of water to 1 can of food - this will help fill him up, slow him down and you may still need to give 2 cans of food, but this may help some. plus mixing water in food, can't hurt anything.
     
  76. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Maybe try 1 1/2 at feeding time and then another 1 1/2 in another hr. or so after his feeding time. Insulin will be working then.
     
  77. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    I have never tried the water in wet food because I don't think they will eat it. They don'like it when it is like soup. But I will try it.

    Now again, I'm sorry that I have to ask this question again. I know I can't feed Rags two hours before his shot, so can I feed him after his 4:00 BG a can ?
     
  78. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Let's see what his next 4:00 test shows, ok?
     
  79. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    3:59 p.m. BG 275, now hw can eat, right ????
     
  80. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, he can eat as much as he wants now but try not to keep feeding him because this 1 unit will also wear out. He will probably start to go back up about 3 hrs. from now. Good job, Becki.
     
  81. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Aim for a stew-like consistency or thin mashed potatoes consistency.

    How much does Rags weigh? its not on his profile.
     
  82. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Becki, on Health you can see all the last responders to someones post. I tried to copy and paste BJM's last post to you but it won't show the little white square after BJM $ ( I put an dollar sign instead but it looks like a white square). If you put your mouse right on that square, it will bring up the very last post and put you in the thread. Then you can scroll up and see if there are any more recent posts you might have missed.


    by BJM $
    Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:11 pm
     
  83. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I think of applesauce consistency. :lol:
     
  84. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    No problem, I added 1/3 can of water to each half that he just ate, yes ! I said Just Ate ! Yeah, but of course, he wants more. I'm goona give him another 1/2 cause he doesn't eat til 8:00, I think. He ate at 8:00 this morning. See my mind is sooo fried, I am so sorry for being so messed up !!! I just can't seem to focus.

    Still haven't found my little girl, been looking all afternoon and did call Animal Control.
     
  85. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Becki,

    Your doing great with this today! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

    But I bet you feel a littly like this kitty :dizcat

    Sorry to hear your feral girl has not been seen for more than a day. Sending come home vines and Becki misses you vines to get her back home to you.

    I'm back here for you. Wanted to let you know how hard everyone is trying to help you. I'm not going to leave you hanging.
     
  86. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Hi Becki! I am sending prayers up to God that your kitty is found and that Rags' FD is healed <3
     
  87. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Maybe this schedule will work for you when you are at home; you can check the dose with the board if you think it needs adjusting.

    It is more food because until regulated, Rags can't use all the food that is eaten.

    If you are not home to test, go with a dose you know will not take her too low. Better a day high, than a moment too low.

    AMPS pre-shot test
    feed 3 oz (1 FF can) with 1 tbsp of water added
    give insulin if over 200

    +2 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    feed 1/2 oz with 1/2 tbsp of water added

    +4 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    feed 1/2 oz with 1/2 tbsp of water added

    +6 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    no food until after next test

    +8 test/afternoon pre-shot

    give insulin if over 200
    feed 3 oz (1 FF can) with 1 tbsp of water added

    +2 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    feed 1/2 oz with 1/2 tbsp of water added

    +4 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    feed 1/2 oz can with 1/2 tbsp of water added

    +6 test (when you're not sure how the dose is working)
    no food until after next test

    +8 test/evening pre-shot

    give insulin if over 200
    3 oz (1 FF can)
    Go to sleep!
     
  88. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Schedule for when you are at work:

    When you are not home to test, go with a dose you know will not take her too low. Better a day high, than a moment too low.

    The night before, take 1 or 2 cans of Fancy Feast, mix each with 1 tbsp of water, and put each in a muffin cup to freeze overnight.

    AMPS pre-shot test
    feed 3 oz (1 FF can) with 1 tbsp of water added
    give insulin if over 200
    put out the frozen serving to thaw and be eaten slowly

    when you get home, test and get the afternoon pre-shot
    give insulin if over 200
    feed 3 oz (1 FF can) with 1 tbsp of water added
    put out the frozen serving to thaw and be eaten slowly

    bedtime test/evening pre-shot
    give insulin if over 200; use a modest dose, since many cats go lower overnight
    3 oz (1 FF can)

    Prep tomorrow's frozen food.
    Go to sleep!
     
  89. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Asking Becki to test every 9 times on the days she is home seems excessive and stressful.
     
  90. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Deb & Wink, thank you fot the kitties, and you are absolutely right about the kitty going in circles. That is exactly what my mind is doing if i even have one left !!!
    The kitty that is missing isn't the feral one. She has lived with me for ten years. my feral kitty shows up when he is not too busy chasing another kitty, ya know ?

    Well, everything i just wrote went away. Soooo

    Bowhuntress, Thank you very much for all your prayers, I really appreciate that !!!! Very kind of you !!!

    My Boy Rags, (stop calling him a her, ha,ha. He is a him.) He weighed 16 lbs. a month ago, he now weighs 13 lbs. He has a large frame, he is a big, polidactal cat with 4" long gray hair and aqua eyes. He is beautiful !!! He just appeared at my door at about 7 months old, very skinny.

    Carl, Thank you for all your help today. I really do appreciate all the help everyone gives me, your just working with a not so smart person that has a hard time understanding and I am sorry. Too much going on in my life right now and i am just Very overwehlmed. Now add Rags and my Sweetie to that mix and you have a Basket Case !!! Well guys, again all i can say is Thank you and believe it or not but i have been trying to do what you tell me.
     
  91. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    It's a process, not an event :smile: You'll get there.

    Do the plans I laid out work for you? Have you got questions about them? Need to change them?
     
  92. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
  93. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Just want to be sure i'm right because I tested him so much this a.m. The last time I did his amps test was 6:41 and gave insulin at 7:21 because I was told to do it that way. I know food before insulin. But my question is do I check his BG at 6:41 0r 6:17 (the first time I did BG)
     
  94. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    4:45 p.m. BG HI, How many units do you want me to give 1.50 ?
     
  95. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    1.5 should be safe for the evening.

    If you feed 2 cans worth of food - 1 now, and 1 in 2 hours, I think you could safely give 2 units.
     
  96. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    he just ate a half of can with water and didn't finish all of it. still give 1.5 in 30 min. or 15 min. after he eats. then try another can in two hours ?
     
  97. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You just need to do an amps at your normal time in the a.m.....test him, feed him, and 1/2hr. later shoot him. You really didn't need to do the test earlier this evening unless it was time to test, feed and shoot. We are slowly getting a handle on how long N is working and how much to give mid day also. If he wants more than a can at normal feeding time, give it to him.
     
  98. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Hope, I just asked about how many units to give. I was first told 1.5 then told if he eat one can now and two cans two hows later i coul give two units.
    He only ate 1/2 can so i wrote back about giving him the 1.5 and how long i should wait. Did not get a response within 1/2 hour so that's when i gave him 1.5 units. Was that right? Are you telling me not to test him anymore tonight ?
     
  99. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    I was driving home from work when you posted.

    Its ok that you shot 1.5 units.

    Cat Info has some guidelines for estimating how much the cat should eat.

    He is going to be hungry until he is regulated. He can be fed about 50% more than the regular amount for a cat that size.
    Per Cat Info, daily calories should be about 13.6 * optimal lean weight in pounds + 70.
    Because diabetes doesn't let the cat use all the calories it consumes, increasing that by 50% is OK untilregulated.
     
  100. yo hon

    yo hon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    again, do I test him in two nhours or do I wait til AMPS as Hope (i think) said ?
     
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