3 weeks out no progress on lantus - help!

I am new to this forum. Been reading all the articles so haven't had time to go through the forum answers yet. 10 year old cat Willie diagnosed 3 weeks ago. Put on Lantus and rechecked each week. Dosage increased each week. Giving insulin twice a day. Last increase was to 3 units. Have modified diet according to info on this site (no help from vet on this at all). Gone from glucose around 300 up to 480 this week. Vet is now "researching" what to do next. Please help me. From the site, I have learned a lot and am trying to home test but my cat is very combative about being touched at all much less pricked in the ear. We had success on another of our cats but not yet on Willie.

Question is: Has anyone else on this site started with lantus, not had success, but had success with another insulin? I believe my vet will listen to me if I have a concrete suggestion. Thanks so much.

I am having a tough time because I had a much loved dog with diabetes about 12 years ago in Houston and now from the research I have done here I firmly believe that dog suffered and died because the vet did not know what the relationship between diet and insulin was. He discouraged me from home testing and did not educate me how to observe and respond to the seizures my dog was having. I am no longer shy about speaking up to vets. Live in small town in Virginia now and am trying to find a more knowledgeable vet but no luck so far. I am desperate to save Willie. Susan

 

You may be giving too much insulin since an increase in BG with increasing dose is usually an outcome of too high a dose. The numbers you got at the vet may be higher than normal (at home) and lead to a incorrect sign to increase the dose. The best is to home test and do a cureve at home to see what is happening throughout the day. What are you feeding?

Sometimes one insulin does not work and another will work.

 

Hi Susan, and welcome!

Lantus does not work the same way as the insulins vets are most familiar with, so their dosing advice often leads to the kind of frustration you are experiencing.

Please go to the Lantus forum in the Insulin Study Groups section and begin by reading the stickies posted there. You'll see the difference between your vet's advice and the strategies found successful by Lantus users here.

I want to add, Susan, that while cats are obligate carnivores, dogs are not. I doubt your vet's advice caused damage to your dog, so please read my sig line and keep us updated, here and in Lantus Land, on Willie's progress.

Gia & Quirk(GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life

 

WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.

 

Gia -

Thanks for the suggestion about Lantus. I think you are the one who noted the double post. I still have not deleted the post because I don't know how. Please write me and tell me how to delete the other post. Thanks.

I still have not had my original post answered. My question is has anyone has no success with Lantus but changed to another insulin that was successful? I hope someone will respond to that if it applies. Thanks. Susan

 

Larry and everyone else who has responded - thanks.

I am feeding Fancy Feast of the specific types recommended on this board. My cat has lost a lot of weight (13 pounds is not 11 pounds) so I am giving as much as the cat wants twice a day. Usually this means 4 cans a day. Also give Pounce treats when I inject or try to home test. This cat, as I stated, does not like to be touched -- except when he wants to be touched. Of my 7 cats, he is the only one like that. Just bad luck that he is the diabetic one.

 

Pounce treats are just about pure carbohydrates. I know Petsmart carries freeze dried small shrimp and chunks of salmon that don't need to be refrigerated for around $6 which will be much better treats for your kitties BG numbers.

 

Hi Susan. My Shiloh was very combative when I tried to test. So I know exactly how you feel. I didn't find this board (no puter) for the first 3 years of diabetes. Then it took me another 3 years before I could test Mr. Houdini. This is how I do it and it might help you. Picture this. End table next to sofa with my supplies, sofa arm, the cat, then me, with a rocking chair blocking him from the front. I am not actually holding him, but real close to him. I have him blocked from getting out. Then I test with everything right at arm's reach.

I don't think you gave Lantus a good enough try, so don't give up on it yet. At 3 units at just 3 weeks is too quick and you may have gone past the ideal dose. Go to Lantus board and they will help you. Good luck. Donna

 

Some cats have moved from Lantus to Levimir with good results.
It would mean that you would start over with Lev.
Lev cartridges last longer than Lantus carts. Lev is not as fragile as Lantus.
Lev does not sting when given in larger doses.
Vicky & Gandalf or Sheila & Beau & Jeddie should be able to help you. :smile:

 

To answer your question - to the best of my knowledge I have only seen 1 or 2 cats on this board so far who could not use lantus - not because it did not work, but because they had an allergic type reaction.

Lantus and levimer are two very similar insulins and work very much the same way.

So, let's start this over and understand exactly what you are and are not doing - ok?

Are you home testing?
Are you only feeding low carb canned food? I think you wrote you feed FF.

You also stated you feed pounce treats - that is as bad as feeding dry food. So, stop the pounce and any other similar type of treat.

If you want to give a treat - give cooked chicken or turkey (no spices), or freeze dried meats - pet smart makes prime bites - in the dog aisle, you can purchase halo liv a littles or pure bites - I get pure bites from kings wholesale online. It's the cheapest place I know. (and yes that's also a "dog" product).

The idea with treats is to give pure meat and nothing else.

Now, how did you arrive at 3 units?
And how long were you on each dose?
What increments are you raising the dose?
Are you shooting every 12 hours?


Have you created a spreadsheet so that you can track the Bg's and we can see them? Here are instructions: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16

It's important to know this, as it is very possible you skipped over the ideal dose for your cat. The only way to know for sure, is if you learn to home test, track the information and it may honestly be necessary to have you start all over at 1 unit every 12 hours and let us help you monitor it and then adjust accordingly from there.

It is also important that if you do nothing else on this board that you DO read this link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=157

 

Hillary-

Thanks for the head's up on King's Wholesale for Pure Bites. I find that brand to be better than the other freeze dried treats - they aren't hard as rocks! Great prices and free shipping - wow!

 

KEOKIE IS 17 YEARS OLD APRIL WILL BE A YEAR WITH DIABETES.HE WAS ON VETSULINE FOR 6 WEEKS THEN LANTUS FOR 6 mounths. WITH NO CONSISTENCY OF BGR. IT was also a great waste ,I would have to thow away .75% of it because of experation date I am useing PROZINC NOW AND HAVE HAD BETTER RESULST .I BELEIVE IT IS PRETTY NEW ON THE MARKET ASK YOUR VET,FOR MORE INFO