4/05/13 Rags had wrong date

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by yo hon, Apr 5, 2013.

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  1. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    6:50 a.m. AMBC HI - which we knew it would be, right ?

    7:09 a.m. ate 1 1/2 cans done at 7:09 a.m would like more.

    I had typed the wrong date on my NEW TOPIC, Sorry !

    At 7:40 should I still give him 2 units ? His dose was changed drastically last night and I mdon't know if he needs more.
     
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I don't know.

    don't feel like I can give you good information.



    DEb & winks
     
  3. Becki
    I'm at work...
    Give 2 units unless someone else says differently. On my phone I can't type much....
     
  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    He may be processing the insulin better.

    Don't know if 1.5u would be safer than 2U?

    I'd prefer 1.5U this morning.



    Deb & winks
     
  5. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    7:46 2 units given. I have to leave for work at 8:15 a.m. be home by 1:30 p.m.

    Thank you so very much, you are Rags Angel. Kitty Cat Rags BIG hugs !!!!
     
  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Good bye Becki and good luck at the vet on Saturday.




    DEb & winks
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Last night, the concern was that where he was starting plus 2.5 units might take him into a hypo.
    You needed to be able to sleep without that worry.
    So the dose was cut down.
    N insulin can be erratic in how much it drops and how fast; better safe than sorry.

    For this morning, starting at HI, 2 units has been safe so far.

    Its important to know that a diabetic's response to insulin can change. HI + 2 units may drop him 200 points or 300 points or not at all, depending on how much he eats, if the food manufacture changes something in the balance of ingredients, if he gets into something high carb, how active he is, how his metabolism is doing today, how old the insulin is, if the insulin has been contaminated, and more.
     
  8. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    BJM Thank you so much for your post this a.m . I just wish someone would have explained that to me last night when I asked. We have never given him such a low dose at night. I was so afraid. I do not want anything to happen to my boy. He has been sooo good thru all he has been thru.

    Why was I kicked off the board ?? Deb called last night and left me that message and to give him .05 units.

    I do everything I.m told to do, I don't know what else I am supposed to be doing,
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    The computer's connection to the message board expires if nothing has been clicked or keyed for 10 minutes. This is called timing out or being "kicked off".

    That is what Deb meant, but you didn't realize that because you are pretty new.

    When a pre-shot test is too low to be comfortable, we wait without feeding, to see if it comes up. This is called "stalling". We want to be sure the glucose is rising, or we could end up with the cat going hypo. Since hypo can be very time consuming to monitor, and if not managed well enough, can be fatal, we want to avoid that. We'd rather the cat were high, than hypo.

    Posting on a message board is a bit complicated. It takes the board's computer some time to receive and display the submitted post. If 2 or more people try to post at the same time, it may hold a post and ask you to review what got posted seconds before you tried to post. It can help to wait 3-5 minutes, hit F5 (refresh) or in Internet Explorer, hit the green up/down arrow button near the top center to refresh the screen.

    Down near the bottom of the page when you are looking at a thread, you can see the names of who is browsing the thread/forum underneath "WHO IS ONLINE". As of 11:59, my display doesn't show you, so your computer may have disconnected from the time out, closing your browser, or service issues with your PC or internet provider.


    I'll be checking for your pre-test at 2 pm
     
  10. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    2:00 p.m. eastern +7 - 292

    He is eating

    Thak you
     
  11. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Re: 4/05/13 Rags +7 ~ 292

    OK

    You know the drill - he has to eat at least half a can in the next 30 minutes and you have to wait another 30 minutes before you shoot.

    Yes he can keep eating; we want to be sure he has at least 1/2 can on board before shooting.
     
  12. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Thank you ! How much insulin will we be giving him ?
     
  13. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    How well is he eating? Is he slowly grazing or really chowing down?

    I'm looking over the spreadsheet to get an idea of how much he drops from various starting levels with the different doses he's been given. And asking the other monitors.

    The one time I see a pre-shot close to 300 is April 1st, you shot 2 units, and the next morning, you had to wait to shoot because he was low. That suggests that a glucose around 300 might need 1.5 units, NOT 2.

    I'd prefer to be cautious and after waiting 30 minutes after finishing at least half a can, IF he eats at least half a can, you may shoot
     
  14. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    BJM he only ate 3/4 of a can with water in about 15 min. he was full. Imagine that ???
     
  15. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    BJM he only ate 3/4 of a can with water in about 15 min. he was full. Imagine that ???
     
  16. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Terrific! He has eaten at least half a can in 30 minutes. Thats step 2. (step 1 was the pre-test)

    Step 3 - Wait out the next 30 minutes to make sure he doesn't hurl it back up. Yes, he may eat some more if he wants.
     
  17. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    he won't throw up, he threw up when he had a huge hair ball. He is not one of my cats that does that, thank God. I know with diabetes he could throw up.
    he will be due at 3:00 for his shot. I'm learning, slowly, but learning. Maybe that way I can retian it better.

    who called my Vet today, do you know ?
     
  18. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was Hope and Deb.

    What do you think for a dose, given what I wrote just above?
     
  19. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    1.5 units
     
  20. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Step 4 - And you'll give that at 3, his regular shot time.
     
  21. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Are you up for some reading? There is a post on the N type insulins (Humulin, Novolin, Humalog, Novalog) that has an overview of how to work with these. We've been explaining it in pieces as we go, because we didn't want to hit you with too much at once.

    If you think that would be helpful, I will give you the link.
     
  22. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    I will give him 1.5 units at 3:00 p.m. then we will go out. All of my kids.
     
  23. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Great! You've got it.

    Please remember to update your spreadsheet. Thanks.

    Step 5 - check for possible problems - it would be good to get a follow-up test in about 1-2 hours, to see how he's doing.
     
  24. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    done, done and done ! The only thing I will have to put in is his shot.
     
  25. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    The weather is nice today, here in Ohio.

    Keep an eye on him - activity uses up the glucose for energy. Check his glucose in about 1 1.2 hours to see how he's doing and if you need to feed him at all.
     
  26. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    What should you do to be sure his glucose is rising after the meal?
     
  27. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    When he goes out he just lays by the house in the flower garden. (grass,ha) and YES, it is a beautiful day here as well !!! He won't stay out long, he never does. He just NEEDS to get some fresh air.

    Yes, I'll take his BG at 4:30 P.M. Okay ?
     
  28. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  29. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    3:00 - 1.5 units given. Take his BG. we are going out now.
     
  30. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I'll watch his spreadsheet for the number.
     
  31. Becki,

    Looks like Rags is doing well today! Great job!

    I wanted to let you know that I contacted Marje and asked if she could attach the picture of Rags to your profile just like she did with your spreadsheet. She's usually on later at night so it might be later tonight that she will try to do that. If she is able to, then his picture will show up every time you post a message, just like my picture of Bob and his guitar does on my posts.
     
  32. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Carl, you are sooo sweet, thank you so VERY much !!!!!!!

    Also, I thank you for this morning as Deb said she could not help me for some reason or another. i was left hanging. Thank you Again !
     
  33. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    There may be time where you have to use your best judgement about what to do.

    You check to make sure Rags has a rising glucose by testing an hour after the pre-shot test and feeding (and he eats at least half a can)

    You review your spreadsheet to
    - look for similar data,
    - check the notes to compare how Rags was eating then vs eating in the present,
    - then decide if you want to
    - - keep a similar dose,
    - - reduce it because not as much food was eaten,
    - - or increase it because Rags is eating like a machine.

    You mull over all the factors and make a decision.
     
  34. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    BJM, as usual, Rags is making me work real hard. He did NOT lay by the house. I asked him if he wanted something to eat, he is scared, but he was coming in and Miki ran out. (she is my little girl that they all chase) Needless to say he went after her and is running from me. NO MORE outside when BG's are due !! As soon as I can get him, I WILL get it. I AM sorry !! He is now associating eating with the ear stick which is NOT good !! I give him a treat when I stick his ear. Deb said I could give him a piece of turkey, so that is what he gets. the size of a piece of corn.
     
  35. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  36. You're welcome Becki,

    I think that what Deb was trying say early this morning is this -
    I think she feels like some of the things that she has said recently, you might have taken the wrong way, or she wasn't able to communicate exactly what she meant to you. And maybe you felt hurt or confused by them. So I think that now, she's afraid of that happening again, so rather than take that chance, she decided that maybe it would be best to not post advice.

    And that's sad to me. Because I know that all she wants is what is best for Rags and what's best for you. She has given some great advice, and has spent an enormous amount of time following along with your and Rags story. I'm sure she is still checking in and reading and wanting nothing but the best to happen to you and Rags. But she's just remaining in the "background" and not posting anything.
     
  37. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Becki

    You were going to test at 4:30. Have you been able to do this?
     
  38. BJ,
    At 4:28 when Becki last posted, she said this -
    I think she might be still trying to run him down.
     
  39. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    4:59 p.m. just found Rags am testing him now.

    5:00 p.m. BG 208
     
  40. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    OK. He's still safe at +2.

    He dropped from 292 to 208 in 2 hours with 3/4 of a can of food on board.
     
  41. Great!

    OK, I think I have this right.

    2 pm you tested and got a 298.
    3 pm you shot 1.5u
    5 pm you tested and got a 208

    That's good. His number came down, but not too far in the 2 hours since he got his shot. Much better numbers this cycle!
     
  42. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    you don't want me to give him any food ?
     
  43. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    You've got 1 -2 hours before he hits his nadir so you may feed him a bit - maybe half a can? Not too much, as he'll be starting to climb back up.

    Ideally, spread his food across all 3 shot cycles of the day. The more even we can keep it, the more even the shots can be.
     
  44. Yes, Becki, like BJ said, you can give him a little food now. His number isn't "too low". It dropped almost 100 points in two hours. That's the insulin "kicking in" and it might also have something to do with the exercise he got outdoors while running around. Exercise can lower blood glucose too.

    If you can test him at 6:00 or so, you might see his number go down a little bit more too.
     
  45. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    6:20 p.m. BG 137
     
  46. SierraNevadan

    SierraNevadan Member

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    I just saw Rags' pictures, he is a gorgeous big furry boy.

    His numbers are looking much better and it looks like you are starting to get a schedule figured out and he's taking to the testing better. Yeah!
     
  47. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    He is safely above 50.

    How is he behaving?
     
  48. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Sierra, thank you, he is also such a good boy !! But for the testing, no, he is NOT doing better. He is now running from me. His poor little ears hurt him sooooo BAD, even with the medicine. He never used to run, but now he is even running away from me wen he goes out. He usually just lays right next to the house. Couldn't get him in tme tonight to test him, now he is low.

    Becki & Rags
     
  49. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    He was sleeping in his box, now he wants t go out but of course I won't let him.
     
  50. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    He's doing fine, Becki. That 137 is a really good number for him.

    If you take a pic of his ears, we might be able to figure out something to help him.
     
  51. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    BJM you want a pic of his ears ? What will that tell you and how do I get you to see it ?
     
  52. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking it might give me some clues about how to help him. Maybe these questions will help.

    Are there bruises or scabs? If you apply direct pressure to the hole after testing, it helps reduce both of those.

    Are you pricking the edge of the ear, or the vein? A vein will bleed more, so we recommend pricking the edge of the ear. It will develop new capillaries as time passes.

    Sometimes, Spitzer moved and instead of a prick, I got more of a small slice. If Rags is wiggling on you, that may happen. If that is the case, the kitty burrito may hold him still enough that he can't move while you are testing.

    While a lot of cats protest, they usually just don't like being held, rather than it being painful.
    Just to verify technique - The Neosporin with pain relief goes on a few minutes before testing, gets wiped off, and then you test.

    Its 7:30 my time and I need to leave the office, get home, do litterboxes and feed my beasties. I will check back as soon as I can.
     
  53. You can email it to me and I'll post it like I did yesterday.
     
  54. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Completely off topic here - I see "Yo hon" and think of Johan Sebastian Bach because or the first name. I sing classical music with the Columbus Symphony Chorus, filk, and listen to rock, pop, contemporary country and filk music.
     
  55. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    no, i put the neosporin on after i test him after i put pressure on his ear with a cotton ball. Never stuck a vein, always edge of ear. No scabs or bruises, just ALOT of soreness and it scares him. He is a VERY good boy, he does NOT wiggle. two times he shook his ear. He gets right on his window seat when i tell him it's time to test and eat. He really is a SWEET boy !!!! I don't think my other kids would be as good as he is !

    however, now it's not so easy to get him there cause he knows what is about to happen and he isn't happy !

    I am really looking forward to seeing Doc Ritter tomorrow. She is so down to earth and VERY nice !!!

    I'll be back at 9 p.m. for his test.
     
  56. SierraNevadan

    SierraNevadan Member

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    Poor Rags. Hopefully youll get him stabilized soon and that will mean less testing all the time --maybe just a couple times a day when he can look forward to a yummy dinner after each test.
     
  57. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    9:p.m. eastern BG 210 and eating 1/2 can ff with water
     
  58. Becki,
    Rags' number since this afternoon are wonderful! I am not sure what "the plan" is for tonight. Not really sure when the next test or shot might be. But did want to let you know that I think this cycle is giving you the kind of numbers we've all been hoping to see for a long time!

    Carl
     
  59. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    He's a bit low right now; too low to shoot; we'll need another test at 10 before we determine a dose.

    We want him to be safe.
     
  60. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    10;00 p.m. BG 513

    ate 1 14 can ff with water
     
  61. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    A lot of that number is food; some of that number may be reacting to the 137 he got earlier.

    I'm thinking 1 unit so you don't have to worry overnight. What do you think? I'll understand if you want to do 1.5 units; I'm just concerned about how low he might go.
     
  62. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    Well, i'm gonna go with 1 unit. he'll be HI in a.m,. right ? better than low
     
  63. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    He might be HI in the morning - but look how fast eating plus the insulin wearing off took him.

    Feedback from behind the scenes thinks 1.5 might be OK, given he is up over 500.

    You hold the needle, so its up to you - 1 or 1.5.
     
  64. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    New piece of info for you.

    When a cat is diabetic, a fast drop in the glucose or going down to a level much lower than the high glucose being experienced may triger the body to compensate. The body reacts as if it is in danger of going too low because it is unfamiliar.

    The main organ involved is the liver. It is signaled to release a form of stored sugar that can be used quickly. Some folks call it a "panicky liver". And the unexpected increase in the glucose is called a "bounce".

    What questions do you have about this?
     
  65. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    10.25 1.5 units given. I guess ! the first needle looked like it only filled up on one side, so I drew uo aother, looked alot better. But I'm not sure about 1.5, hard to judge
     
  66. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Just do the best you can - many of us 'eyeball' it to measure between the lines.
     
  67. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    God night got a BIG day tomorrow, cna't wait !!!!!!!!!! Gotta get up at 4:30 a.m. will be in touch when we get done at Doctors.

    Will be here for AMBS,will anyone be around ?
     
  68. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to be on in the morning.

    I thought Rag's apt was rescheduled to Tuesday; please check with them before getting all the way over there.
     
  69. yo hon

    yo hon Member

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    No, Rags schedule was NOT changed. It is at MY convenience,and that would be tomorrow. Besides, I didn't change it !

    So, I'll be posting to you at 7:00 a.m., Thank you !!!

    Goodnight, aw sleep !!!
     
  70. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I'll be about 7:30. By then you will have tested and fed at least 1/2 can.

    If you spread his food out with 1 1/4 can in the morning, 1 1/4 can mid-day, and 1 1/4 can in the evening, his dose may be more even for each cycle. Its OK if he isn't 100% full after breakfast. He will be OK.
     
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