4/23 Willow PMPS 308bg +3 67bg +4 33bg

Get some sleep. You earned it!

Don't forget the reduction for the morning!

 

The 13% food you were feeding would have been influencing her numbers, now that you have cut it out you might see Willows numbers come down some, taking it out of the picture may have in part been responsible for the drop you saw today.

When did you stop feeding the 13 % was it by any chance 3 days ago???(april 21)

Nice to see Willow in some green now, hopefully you have hit the point where you will see more of it

Congratulations with the reduction

 

So to be clear, James: You were feeding her Fancy Feast with gravy, but you recently stopped doing that? What are you feeding her now? We recommend Fancy Feast classics, which are a pate style and are below 10% carbs. As others have mentioned, if you made that change in the past couple of days, that could be why her numbers dropped so much. While it was scary for you, it's good in a way, because now you know the difference the carb % can make. When this is over, you've slept and can think clearly, I recommend you take a look at Dr. Lisa's Food Chart and see what the carb percentages are for all the Fancy Feast lines, so you know which are LC (up to 10%), which are MC and which are HC. You'll want to have some of the MC and HC on hand for when she gives another diving exhibition (part of that hypo toolkit that was mentioned above).

By the way, I am really impressed with the way you kept your sense of humor during all this drama!

Congratulations on the reduction!

 

Wow...what a night!

As the others have mentioned, the Fancy Feast Gravy Food is why Willow's numbers have been so high. This is great food for emergency situations such as the low numbers you went through last night, but for a diabetic it is not a good food for regular feedings. The Fancy Feast Classics that you recently switched to is a much better diet for a diabetic kitty.

Please do not forget to take the reduction this morning, no matter how high Willow's AMPS is. There is a good chance she will bounce from those low numbers, but don't let that influence the amount of insulin you shoot. Dosing is based on the lowest point in the cycle, and last night Willow proved that she is getting too much insulin now that you have switch her diet.

Her new dose is 3.25U. Also, she will need VERY close monitoring right now because of the diet switch until her body adjusts to the the change. You do not want any low-number surprises.

 

Wow James, what a night! Just read through all the post. You did great handling the low numbers. A lot of us here feed Fancy Feast Classics they are around 4 % carbs. You can save the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers for hypo events like last night. They are around 18 % carbs. And then the Fancy Feast Roasted are what would be considered medium carb and are good to have in the pantry for those times you need just a little boast up but not needing the "big guns" like the gravy. I have a different place I keep the medium and high carb foods so I don't inadvertently give to Bubba at meal time. Hope you got some sleep after the PJ party you had last night. Congrats on the reduction!

 

I just read through this condo. Great job of steering the numbers.

I want to reinforce a few points. The reason several of us kept asking you about food is that we weren't sure that you were feeding Fancy Feast Classics. You really need to know the percentage of carbohydrates in what you're feeding. Feeding a high carb food will result in high numbers. Remove that food and numbers drop. That's what you saw. You need the HC food on hand to bring numbers up so unless your cat won't or can't eat HC, you need cans of it in the house. I recommend you get a Sharpie and mark the lids of the HC food cans with "HC" so you don't mistakenly give Willow food that's high in carbs when you mean to be giving her Classics.

You got very good information about how to steer Willow's numbers by the experienced members here. There is written information about how to do this in the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky. It may be worth printing this information out.

I want to observe that it is extremely rare that someone has to rectally administer Karo (or anything else HC). For the purpose of comparison, a cat that has been diabetic for more than a year uses numbers below 40 as the point for determining a dose reduction. While having a cat in numbers in the 30 - 40 range for long isn't encouraged, we intervene because there is a very small margin for safety. Following the instructions from the sticky -- giving HC food or adding syrup to your cat's LC food and testing every 15 - 20 min.-- will bring numbers up. If numbers aren't coming up, it's a trip to the vet and the experienced people here are very good at knowing when to tell you to get the cat to the vet. @Capoo suggestions were over zealous. I managed Gabby's diabetes for 6.5 years. She was known to dive into low numbers and gave me a lot of experience with using HC to intervene. I never rubbed syrup on her gums or had to give syrup rectally. This may be the first time I've seen a member give Karo in this manner.

 

James, you did an awesome job!!! Hang in there!!

 

Ok, @Sienne and Gabby (GA), well noted.
I will never try to help anybody again.

 

Please don't say that! You were there to help and that is very, very important and greatly appreciated. But there is always stuff to learn from all of these experiences - that's all Sienne was saying.

 

Yes, I understand, that's why in my first post, I told to James that I'm not the most experienced member.
Furthermore, when all this happened, there wasn't a lot of members online, that's why I decided to intervene.
But I really don't appreciate the post of Sienne and Gaby. I find it rude and inappropriate.

 

Sophie, it's a difficult situation, and it is what your vet had advised you to do in the same circumstances. I think, reading through the thread, James ended up opting for that because Willow was not letting him put honey on her gums, and didn't like the taste of karo on her food.

The important thing is that Willow is safe, but from a learning point of view, it's just important to clear up when we need to be thinking of using the rectal route, usually we save it for the situation Sienne mentioned above, you weren't to know.

I am sure James appreciates you being there this morning, you may often, because of the time difference, find yourself in the same situation, and I know from personal experience, it's always nice to have someone there with you when you are all alone in the middle of the nigh dealing with a possible hypo, so please don't stop posting, put it down to experience and lets all move on.

By the way took a look at Capoos ss and he seems to be doing nicely

 

There have been times that no one else was on the site except me when a similar situation arose. Any advice I have given has always been meant to make sure the kitty is safe...which is exactly what you did. Like you I have sometimes erred on the side of caution, but in the end the advice you gave was to keep Willow safe.

I believe all Sienna was trying to say is that doing the rectal syrup does not have to be done with the numbers that Willow had earlier. She was saying this so that others reading the post would not panic and think they had to do this if their own kitty had similar numbers. Since many people read through the posts, the more experienced members like to clarify situations for newer members who may not always post about their situations. I am sure that her comments were not meant to be rude or cruel....sometimes when posting comments the true intention can come across wrong as opposed to being able to talk in person.

In any case you were there for James and did help out at a time where were not other experienced members available.

 

You're right: the most important thing is that Willow is safe.

 

So eloquently said Mary Ann, that's what I was trying to convey, but you said it so much better.

 

Hi James, I like the way you kept your head while dealing with a very stressful situation. You sure had to learn a lot in a very short space of time. When you get some rest, be sure to read the "Stickies" again, so that you will have a clear idea of how to proceed if Willow drops sharply again.
Just think of how much you learned and how much better prepared you are now! You know the difference between LC, MC, and HC and when (and how) to use each. You learned that if you don't happen to have MC or HC on hand, you can "make" HC by adding a little Karo syrup or honey to Willow's "normal" LC. (When I have had to do this, I add only a drop or two to a small amount of food and monitor carefully.) You learned that in extreme circumstances only (Willow is unresponsive), the thing to do is rub syrup on her gums and get her to an ER vet immediately. Vets have the resources that we do not.

Congrats on the dose reduction. Willow is bouncing now, but it is pretty clear that the HC food you had been feeding her was in large part responsible for her previous high numbers and that you had to give higher doses to combat the effect of the High Carb foods. As several people have said, Willow's body needs to get used to Low Carb foods and this might take a little time. She needs to "recalibrate". It can take up to 72 hours to clear a bounce. Just try to follow the protocol and keep on testing. And don't forget the treats after every test (most cats like the freeze-dried chicken or turkey treats: Pure Bites is a brand that Rusty likes. It is sourced and made in the USA; read labels and avoid treats made in China).

You and your wife are doing a great job.

Ella & Rusty

 

FYI A/D is 11 or 12 % carbs--not enough to bring up numbers......
gravy lovers is much higher and works fast--
great job James.... nice to see the lower numbers for Willow!! (not too low)

 

This morning, I read though all the posts from this condo and I have to say that I think it is wonderful how we all help each other during a hypo event. Each of us has our hearts in our throats along with the bean that is going through it. All of our intentions are to help our kitties during these episodes. The point had been made last night about when to use the rectal administration of karo syrup by @AZJenks and it was acknowledged by @Capoo . Yes, we all need to learn and the experienced ones need to be as kind as @AZJenks was to Capoo. Thanks for that AZJenks

 

eek I just read more of this--
I have found that forums are kind of like texts-- sometimes they come across wrong...


Willow is safe and you did great!!

 

@Capoo ...please never say that you'll never help again...when I came on last night to help, it was mid-crisis so I didn't have the chance to say it more eloquently, but if you look back, you'll see this: (red highlights by me today)

The important thing is always keeping the cat safe. Willow's pride might be a little hurt, but she's still here today and that's the important part.

This is all a learning process...not only for James, but for you and all the other members that will read the posts here.

@Willow .....a little more information on foods and which are high carb/medium carb....Generally under 10% is considered low carb (The FF "Classics" which are all pate's) ....11% to about 16% is medium and above 16% is high carb. If you look on the Food Chart on Dr. Lisa's site, the Fancy Feasts are pretty much all listed.

The Florentine Medleys are 12-16% ...China loves these for her "medium" carb
The Gravy Lovers are all close to 20%....these are the higher carb and are great because you can easily "squeeze" just the gravy part into another bowl and feed just that gravy (that's where most of the carbs are)....that keeps them from getting too full of food when we might need them to eat again later if the numbers drop
The Tuscany Medleys are 22-25%....these are even higher carb but aren't so easy to feed "just" the gravy part

If you look at the Marinated Morsels, Grilled and Sliced, you'll see all the descriptions have "in gravy" and depending on type/flavor, they can be anywhere from 13% to 21% so if you use any of these, it's very important that you "mark" them in some way so when you need to make a quick decision, it's easy to grab the percentage you want. A marker on the top with the % is the way a lot of people do it

Take a little time and pick out some flavors/varieties that you think Willow will like and make a list before you go shopping again

 

Amen Bobbie.

 

Chris, your "bucket list" comment was hysterical and I am sure gave some levity to an otherwise tense situation last night. Now I know where China gets her sense of humor!

 

@Chris & China : sorry, but when I saw one of the previous message, and it wasn't yours, I was a little bit....how to say.... "Out of myself".
Of course, I will continue to help, and continue to learn!
My extreme ways of treating a hypo come from the use of Caninsulin / Vetsulin at the beginning, with which you have nearly no time to take action. Of course, with Lantus, it is "smoother".