5 day numbers???

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by David McGuinness, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    started Bryant on ProZink on Wed! 1u x2 testing on a Alphatrak2. Twice a day before each feeding and shot. His lowest number in that time was 510, the highest was 683( the very first day) his number is consistent now for the past 4 days, at 500-550. His lowest # was 421 but that was the first day after diagnosis before stating treatment!

    I'm going to consult my vet tomorrow AM! I have ordered more test strips to do a series as I am home for a few days this week, to get a look at where his drop off number is. I'm thinking that his dosage may need to be increased? How much time in the initial stages do you normally allow to know the numbers are accurate?

    I've started a spreadsheet today to be able to track online and share the info moving forward. I've changed his food now for the past 5 days now to the low carb FF & Friskies.
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Hi David!

    Here is a link to the spreadsheet we all use around here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ Is that the one you started? If not, whatever you have is fine, but we tend to like the color coding to help find patterns in response more easily.

    I would suggest holding the first dose for a week, and then the protocol allows for increases every 3-6 cycles (a cycle is 12 hours) depending on the mid-cycle numbers.

    Great job getting started with home testing already by the way! Happy New Year!
     
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  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Welcome! It's great you are testing already! Try to get some mid cycle readings when you can to see how low he's going at the peek. ProZinc tends to peek 5-7 hours after the shot. Tests in that tune frame would be helpful to see how effective the dose is.
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Welcome! We're here to help. Congrats on testing BG at home - it's the best way to keep your kitty safe. :)
     
  5. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    You’ve gotten great info so I just wanted to say hello!
     
  6. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    ConsultEd with my vet today and advises to increase his am dose to 2u and pm dose kept to 1u. After 6 days his numbers are still too high obviously. Complicating this I'd he has an accessed tooth that I have to put him back on Clavamax 2x per day! We are trying to get him stable and his #s down so he can have surgery. Any Thoughts?
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I would really like to get a clearer picture of the impact of the insulin before commenting on the dosing. Are the numbers you have so far all from right before injection? If so, would it be possible to get a number somewhere in the middle of the cycle - like four to six hours after the injection? The pre-shot numbers are important for knowing that it's safe to inject, but it's the nadir that matters for knowing if the dose needs to increase and by how much. (Nadir = lowest number in the cycle - typically 4-7 hours after injection).
     
  8. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    I’ve only done several in between shot tests in the past 6 days and the drop has not been very much. I understand about the Nadir.
     
  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Sorry 'bout that. I'm never sure how much someone has had a chance to read. :) It's kind of a catch-22 on the surgery: vets prefer if their numbers are better before surgery, but an abscessed tooth isn't going to let his numbers come down. Dental problems are one of the leading causes of high numbers. We can help you increase the dose safely to at least get some progress in the right direction once we can see the data you've collected.

    You mentioned you were starting a spreadsheet. If you could share that, it would be really helpful, or if you want to start the FDMB version, just let us know if you'd like help and we can have someone get it started for you.
     
  10. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
     
  11. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
  12. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Looks like we don't have access to view. You have to give permission...I can't recall offhand how to do that but I'll take a look later if someone else doesn't pop by. :)
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Hooray! To share the spreadsheet click on the blue "share" button.
    upload_2018-1-3_5-4-27.png

    Then choose "anyone with a link can view" Then we should be able to see it.
     
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  14. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Link sharing is now turned on!
     
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  15. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Link sharing is on!
     
  16. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Woohoo!!! Great job. Okay, now for the next thing (because there is always one more thing, isn't there? ;))

    You can put the spreadsheet and any other info in your signature, and then you don't have to repeat yourself all of the time when we forget the details. Here's a handy dandy video to show you how to make a signature and link the spreadsheet:



    Now as for the numbers: Oh My Goodness. Bryant is up there! Poor little guy! Normally we suggest dose increases of 0.25u at a time. Your vet suggested increasing by a full unit, and in this case I don't totally disagree for this first increase. However, going forward I will suggest smaller increases to avoid bouncing too much. At this point though, progress is important and he's high enough to handle the increase.

    How does your work schedule work with testing? Are you home at all during the day? Work close enough to come home for a minute? Work from home? With the increase you'll need to get a couple of mid-cycle tests to see how the 2u is impacting him. If you can get one tonight, that would be great. If you can get one (a mid-cycle test or two) tomorrow, I would suggest giving the 2u in the morning as well and keeping the doses the same for both cycles. If you'll be gone the whole cycle, then I might still suggest 1.5u in the morning and not going all the way back down to 1u.

    Please let me know if that made sense or was just a jumble of confusion. It's also okay to ask whatever questions you have - I realize you haven't been here all that long and might not yet be comfortable taking dosing suggestions from strangers on the internet :nailbiting:.
     
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  17. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Wow! I'm with Djamila on this one. I think an increase is a good plan, and any mid cycles you can get. As you continue testing, you may want to do your increases by .5 instead of the lower .25 we often recommend. When they're in sustained high numbers, it's okay to increase more often and by a higher margin than normal...though I wouldn't increase by a full unit again. I'm sure we can get him down though! Let us know if you have questions or concerns!
     
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  18. David McGuinness

    David McGuinness New Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Thanks for the signature info! Here it is over a week and Bryant's numbers are not changing much. I did a curve yesterday every 3 hours and I don't see anything that even looks like a drop for a nadir. Should I be withholding food except for the pre shot feedings during the curve time frame?

    I've had to put him back on Clavamox as he has an absess tooth, it needs to be removed but the vet wants to get his numbers down before he schedules surgery!
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I would still recommend shooting 2u for both AM and PM dose time. He'll need more increases after that, but we need to go step by step so that when he starts to respond to the insulin you can keep him safe. So if you feel okay about it, take the AM dose up to 2u, so he gets 2u tonight and 2u for both shots tomorrow, then post again tomorrow night and we can see about next steps. It's going to be hard to bring his numbers down into healthy ranges with that tooth, but I'm sure we can do better than all of these black numbers!
     
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