5 Months In - Desperate for Help

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megmonger

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Hi everyone,

Sorry this post is long, I’m trying to summarize 5 months worth of our struggle since our cat Abby was diagnosed diabetic. She continues to go downhill and we are desperate for help, at wits end and truly wondering if we are doing the right thing. Any help or suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!

13 Jan - Took Abby to the vet for excessive urination. She had been flooding her litter box for about 2 weeks, but no symptoms other than that. Tested for UTI, all clear. Tested for ketones, all clear. Blood test for diabetes - positive. A week later we went back and they trained us on how to give injections and we began her on vetsulin every 12 hours, 1 unit.

27 Jan - Took her in for her first glucose curve. 0 hour reading = 400, 2 hours post-food and insulin = 395, 4 hours = 375, 6.5 hours = 344. Since her numbers were above 300 the vet increased us to 2 units vetsulin. Around this time Abby stopped eating and started losing weight. (She was on dry food at this point, had been her whole life (lesson learned now!)).

2 Feb - Glucose spot check at the vet, reading = 318. Increase to 3 units vetsulin.

10 Feb - Another glucose spot check at the vet, reading = 445 (4 hours post-food). At this point she is consistently not eating and has dropped from almost 10 lbs to 9.25 lbs. I’m freaking out. Still no indication of UTI in quick check, but vet starts a course of Clavamox anyway just in case. One of the techs has a diabetic cat and hears my concern about Abby not eating and points me in the direction of Pro Plan wet foods.

11-19 Feb - Start her on wet food and mercifully she begins eating again.

20 Feb - Glucose spot check at vet, reading = 366 (2.5 hours post-food). Bite the bullet and pay for the full expensive aerobic culture urine check for UTI...result is negative. One bit of good news is she regains weight to 9.56 lbs!

2 Mar - Vet switches from glucose spot checks to fructosamine test. Result was 677, so increased to 4 units vetsulin. Around this time or shortly before, Abby starts exhibiting behavioral symptoms at home. She starts getting aggressive around food and acting strange, seems less coordinated. Stops using litter box except to poop. Peeing all over our basement.

7 Apr - Another fructosamine. Still high (545), up to 5 units vetsulin. Behavioral issues are alarming. Our cat is 11 years old and has never acted like this. It’s like she’s out of her mind. Litter box issues continue. We buy a second litter box.

22 Apr - At this point I’m so concerned that we schedule an appointment for a wellness check. She basically never urinates in the litter box now, although consistently poops in them. She is insane around food, literally as if she is out of her mind. She tries to break into our pantry and is constantly on the counter trying to lick any dishes. Vet tests Total T4 (bloodwork). Bloodwork results all clear. Vet sees some indications of neuropathy in hind legs so we being B12 injections.

27 Apr - Another fructosamine. Still high (601), up to 6 units vetsulin. Both my husband and I feel like we’ve seen some perceptible improvement in her behavior since starting the B12 (maybe better coordinated now?). But behavioral issues continue, it’s like she’s a completely different cat. Food aggression continues. She is ON TOP of us if anyone is eating. She’ll dash in and grab things from your bowl (entire meatball, steak, noodles, etc etc) and we have to forcibly wrestle them from her mouth.

5 & 13 May - Next B12 injections. We do them weekly at first, then biweekly, eventually moving to monthly (in June) and are directed to continue for life. I ask and they allow me to begin giving her these injections at home on my own, since she gets extremely car sick and even these short trips to the vet are very stressful for us both. She howls and generally pees all over herself during the ride.

27 May - Another fructosamine. Still high (616), up to 7 units vetsulin.

Today life with Abby is both heartbreaking and a struggle. She is uncoordinated and when food is nearby she becomes so desperate that she frequently runs into things and falls off of surfaces. She has managed to break into our pantry a few times and will chew through food packaging. One day we had a used mop with a plastic bag around it in the kitchen and she chewed apart the bag trying to get to the mop. This is not my cat of 11 years. She remains loving and wants to be with us and loves cuddles. Her coat is nice and shiny although we are starting to see bare patches at her neck, near where we give her injections (??) She continues to urinate outside the litterbox and twice now we’ve found puddles upstairs in our living area, which is a huge concern for us. We’ve ordered Cat Attract litter to try that and we scrub the basement floor with enzyme cleaners every two days.

I am at my wits end and do not know what else to do. Her fructosamine numbers make no sense to me. Is she responding to the vetsulin at all? Why does it seem all her behavioral issues began only after we received the diabetes diagnosis and began treatment? I’ve begun searching for a vet who maybe has more expertise in the area, although our current vet treats many diabetic patients and generally folks seem to overwhelmingly like her.

Anyway, thanks for reading. :(
 
Welcome Meg and Abby! Fellow MD'er :smuggrin:
I am sorry you have been struggling but seems like you are ready to take charge and we can help and support you :). First thing I notice is the Vet increased insulin dose in whole units, something members have found does not work well for small creatures like kitties so we prefer to recommend increases by 0.25 or 0.5U (half unit marked syringes really help with this). So there is a chance her ideal dose was skipped. Also fructosomine tests are a waste of your money. I think it would be better spent on you and DH (dear hubby) home testing :)

For the neuropathy, the B12 injections are most likely cyancobalamin, which is not helpful for neurological issues. The best thing to help her neuropathy is to get her numbers under control. Second, the B12 you want is methylcobalamin. Many here have used Zobaline (not xobaline) to help their sugar babies with neuropathy.

The food aggression, if she wasn't that way before, could be because her numbers are still high and her body is literally starving as it cannot process nutrients from her food properly. What food are you feeding her? (brand / flavour) What is her feeding schedule like?

Is the fur loss just near injection site?

Sorry for my lack of organizing the reply, I was trying to focus on big points right now :cat:
 
Are you home testing? I suspect you may have bypassed the correct dose for Abby and she is doing something we call "bouncing." This occurs when too much insulin is administered and the body basically goes into survival mode, dumping glycogen into the system because it perceives a desperate need for it. This will cause blood glucose numbers to go up, and stay up, until it thinks the crisis is over. This will also cause her to lose weight and be excessively hungry, because her body is literally starving, as she is unable to properly process her food. Most vets don't treat very many cases of feline diabetes, they are much more apt to encounter it in dogs. However, because a cat's metabolism is approximately three times that of a human, they cannot be treated the same way dogs are. Also, I don't know which Pro Plan food you are feeding, but many of them exceed the recommended percentage of carbs for cats with FD. Abby should eat canned food with less than 10% carbs. THIS will take you to a food chart that is very helpful in finding a good food for kitty that is diabetes-appropriate.

Home testing can give you answers your vet cannot. Some vets support home testing, some don't. The bottom line is it's your cat and your decision. We use this analogy: if she was a human child, would you just blindly shoot insulin twice daily, without knowing if that dose was correct or even safe to give? Of course not, and neither would your vet! Home testing is relatively easy to do and the only way to find out what's going on with Abby, and to keep her safe! Most of us use human meters because of affordability issues (the test strips for pet meters are very pricey, and you will go through a lot of them) but some use pet meters because the numbers will correspond more closely with those obtained at the vet's office. We can certainly help get you started with home testing! Investigate this board and you will find helpful and informative information on how to home test, and what you will need to begin. HERE is a link to some information to get you started. We will be happy to answer any questions, do not ever hesitate to ask!:):):)

Please know that you can turn this around, and get back the Abby you know so well. It will just take some time, and finding the right dose (or maybe even the right insulin - there are others you can try if Vetsulin is not working out for Abby) through home testing. :bighug:
 
Welcome Meg and Abby! Fellow MD'er :smuggrin:
I am sorry you have been struggling but seems like you are ready to take charge and we can help and support you :). First thing I notice is the Vet increased insulin dose in whole units, something members have found does not work well for small creatures like kitties so we prefer to recommend increases by 0.25 or 0.5U (half unit marked syringes really help with this). So there is a chance her ideal dose was skipped. Also fructosomine tests are a waste of your money. I think it would be better spent on you and DH (dear hubby) home testing :)

For the neuropathy, the B12 injections are most likely cyancobalamin, which is not helpful for neurological issues. The best thing to help her neuropathy is to get her numbers under control. Second, the B12 you want is methylcobalamin. Many here have used Zobaline (not xobaline) to help their sugar babies with neuropathy.

The food aggression, if she wasn't that way before, could be because her numbers are still high and her body is literally starving as it cannot process nutrients from her food properly. What food are you feeding her? (brand / flavour) What is her feeding schedule like?

Is the fur loss just near injection site?

Sorry for my lack of organizing the reply, I was trying to focus on big points right now :cat:


Sold - I will be happy to dump the fructosamine tests, which don't seem to have told us anything and cost me nearly $70 a pop. Researching home testing per your response and the other on this same thread now...

Just looked at our bottle of B12 and it is indeed cyancobalamin. Researching now looks like a great idea to switch, thanks! Online I'm only finding it in tablet form rather than injectable, is that correct?

She is fed every 12 hours at the same time as we give her the insulin injection. At each meal she gets half of a 5.5 oz can of Pro Plan entrees (11% min crude protein) plus 2 tbsp of RC Sensitive Digestion dry food.

And the fur loss is toward the center of her shoulders. We rotate where we give her injections along the shoulder line and the fur loss is not everywhere. Just in the center. I halfway wonder if its from her flea & tick treatment instead (Stronghold), but we've never seen her react to that before so it's odd.

Thank you :) :)
 
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Are you home testing? I suspect you may have bypassed the correct dose for Abby and she is doing something we call "bouncing." This occurs when too much insulin is administered and the body basically goes into survival mode, dumping glycogen into the system because it perceives a desperate need for it. This will cause blood glucose numbers to go up, and stay up, until it thinks the crisis is over. This will also cause her to lose weight and be excessively hungry, because her body is literally starving, as she is unable to properly process her food. Most vets don't treat very many cases of feline diabetes, they are much more apt to encounter it in dogs. However, because a cat's metabolism is approximately three times that of a human, they cannot be treated the same way dogs are. Also, I don't know which Pro Plan food you are feeding, but many of them exceed the recommended percentage of carbs for cats with FD. Abby should eat canned food with less than 10% carbs. THIS will take you to a food chart that is very helpful in finding a good food for kitty that is diabetes-appropriate.

Home testing can give you answers your vet cannot. Some vets support home testing, some don't. The bottom line is it's your cat and your decision. We use this analogy: if she was a human child, would you just blindly shoot insulin twice daily, without knowing if that dose was correct or even safe to give? Of course not, and neither would your vet! Home testing is relatively easy to do and the only way to find out what's going on with Abby, and to keep her safe! Most of us use human meters because of affordability issues (the test strips for pet meters are very pricey, and you will go through a lot of them) but some use pet meters because the numbers will correspond more closely with those obtained at the vet's office. We can certainly help get you started with home testing! Investigate this board and you will find helpful and informative information on how to home test, and what you will need to begin. HERE is a link to some information to get you started. We will be happy to answer any questions, do not ever hesitate to ask!:):):)

Please know that you can turn this around, and get back the Abby you know so well. It will just take some time, and finding the right dose (or maybe even the right insulin - there are others you can try if Vetsulin is not working out for Abby) through home testing. :bighug:

Thanks so much for the encouragement. :)

Researching now. I am 100% comfortable with the idea of testing her at home, heck I even have a couple fancy glucometers already from when I had gestational diabetes during my pregnancies with my son and daughter. My vet had just strongly recommended against it when I asked because she said it leads to people adjusting the insulin on their own and she seemed to feel that didn't work well. But what we are doing currently clearly is not working, so that's enough to convince me.

The links are helpful, thank you! Abby is now wondering why I'm obsessed with looking at her ears. :p

Questions I have are now not so much about how to get the blood sample and use a glucometer, but instead 1) how/where to obtain my supplies (mainly test strips) and if I'll need a script for those. (Based on my vet's perspective above, I suspect I'm about to find myself at odds with their preferences and they may not be willing to write me a script. Hopefully I don't have to add finding a new vet to my list. :-/), and 2) how often/when I need to be testing and what types of thresholds I'm looking for?

Thank you again!!
 
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While you are researching, look for her food in this food chart we used. Information was compiled by a Vet who posts some info for us on this site: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
You'll want to keep below 10% carbs. For the amount, if she is finishing her half can meals kind of fast you may want to add a snack a few hours after until her numbers get under better control and her body can use the nutrients from the food.

Yes the Zobaline is a tablet, I think people just crush it and sprinkle over kitty's food.

I do wonder if the flea and tick meds may be causing an issue since she is on insulin now but I am not sure.

Questions:
1. Where to get supplies can depend on which meter you are using. Many of us use a human glucometer from Walmart, ReliOn Confirm/Micro. Test strips are more affordable and no script required.
2. Minimum twice a day, AMPS and PMPS (morning and evening pre-shot tests with no food eaten for 2 hours prior). With Vetsulin the preshot time is about 30 minutes before shot time. So you'll test her BG, if above 200 you will give her meal, wait about 20 minutes and shoot.

Here is the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet, if you need help just ask: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Let's get your signature setup with some info about Abby: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
And since you are a new member, I will leave you with this and hope you never need it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Lucy (Squalliesmom) and I are also in MD :cat:
 
Thanks so much for the encouragement. :)

Researching now. I am 100% comfortable with the idea of testing her at home, heck I even have a couple fancy glucometers already from when I had gestational diabetes during my pregnancies with my son and daughter. My vet had just strongly recommended against it when I asked because she said it leads to people adjusting the insulin on their own and she seemed to feel that didn't work well. But what we are doing currently clearly is not working, so that's enough to convince me.

The links are helpful, thank you! Abby is now wondering why I'm obsessed with looking at her ears. :p

Questions I have are now not so much about how to get the blood sample and use a glucometer, but instead 1) how/where to obtain my supplies (mainly test strips) and if I'll need a script for those. (Based on my vet's perspective above, I suspect I'm about to find myself at odds with their preferences and they may not be willing to write me a script. Hopefully I don't have to add finding a new vet to my list. :-/), and 2) how often/when I need to be testing and what types of thresholds I'm looking for?

Thank you again!!
Gunna be honest, your vet sucks at dosing. Most cats never need more than 3, sometimes 4 units. I think your cat's dose is most likely way too high. start testing, we will help.... and you are exactly right... you tried it her way for five months... now it's time to try this way. She would never suggest a person inject their child with insulin without testing first, so I don't know why in the world she would think it's ok to tell you not to test your cat. I have a video in my signature showing how I test me cat that you might find helpful.

The other thing I want to say is that I don't think you are feeding your cat enough. Unregulated cats can't process the nutrients properly, so they are literally starving even though they are eating. Ditch the dry food all together... it's high in carbs... but add in other food. I would do a half can in the morning, 1/2 mid day, 1/2 in the evening and 1/2 before bed. JUST DON'T FEED two hours before preshot testing so that the numbers are not food influenced. Truely, unless it's 2 hours to preshot testing, and she's hungry, FEED HER.
 
Thanks so much for the encouragement. :)

Researching now. I am 100% comfortable with the idea of testing her at home, heck I even have a couple fancy glucometers already from when I had gestational diabetes during my pregnancies with my son and daughter. My vet had just strongly recommended against it when I asked because she said it leads to people adjusting the insulin on their own and she seemed to feel that didn't work well. But what we are doing currently clearly is not working, so that's enough to convince me.

The links are helpful, thank you! Abby is now wondering why I'm obsessed with looking at her ears. :p

Questions I have are now not so much about how to get the blood sample and use a glucometer, but instead 1) how/where to obtain my supplies (mainly test strips) and if I'll need a script for those. (Based on my vet's perspective above, I suspect I'm about to find myself at odds with their preferences and they may not be willing to write me a script. Hopefully I don't have to add finding a new vet to my list. :-/), and 2) how often/when I need to be testing and what types of thresholds I'm looking for?

Thank you again!!
You can use a human meter to test. You will get lower readings than the Alphatrak meter your vet probably uses, but that's ok. If you what a pet specific meter, I do love my alphatrak, but the strips are about a dollar each. You said you have human meters already, so I would just use one of those as long as they are ones that require a small (.3) blood size. Most on these boards use a human meter because the strips are much less expensive. The Walmart brand Relion Micro or Confirm meters are popular because you can get 100 test strips for about $36. Either way you decide is fine.

You don't need a perscription to get test strips. If you go with a pet meter, I usually order strips either off of amazon or from adwdiabetes.com

Other things you may want to home test:
28 gauge lancets (ask a pharmacist... most human meters come with 31 guage which are small when you fist start testing... 28's are larger)
cotton rounds to put behind the ear as you poke
and a bit of neosporin ointment with pain relief to help the little ears heal after a day of testing.
 
While you are researching, look for her food in this food chart we used. Information was compiled by a Vet who posts some info for us on this site: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
You'll want to keep below 10% carbs. For the amount, if she is finishing her half can meals kind of fast you may want to add a snack a few hours after until her numbers get under better control and her body can use the nutrients from the food.

Yes the Zobaline is a tablet, I think people just crush it and sprinkle over kitty's food.

I do wonder if the flea and tick meds may be causing an issue since she is on insulin now but I am not sure.

Questions:
1. Where to get supplies can depend on which meter you are using. Many of us use a human glucometer from Walmart, ReliOn Confirm/Micro. Test strips are more affordable and no script required.
2. Minimum twice a day, AMPS and PMPS (morning and evening pre-shot tests with no food eaten for 2 hours prior). With Vetsulin the preshot time is about 30 minutes before shot time. So you'll test her BG, if above 200 you will give her meal, wait about 20 minutes and shoot.

Here is the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet, if you need help just ask: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Let's get your signature setup with some info about Abby: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
And since you are a new member, I will leave you with this and hope you never need it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Lucy (Squalliesmom) and I are also in MD :cat:

Thank you!! :) :) I'll be setting up my spreadsheet, etc this evening once the kiddos are in bed.

I had been told to have the syrup on hand in case Abby started walking unsteadily, etc. But what is horrifying is that I had not heard of the symptoms of mild and moderate hypoglycemia, and they describe Abby TO A "T" right now. Those are exactly the things she has been doing. I have told my vet over and over and they just seemed to feel that was normal until her body regulated to the insulin.

Literally heading to Walmart in a few minutes to pick up a meter and the rest of my supplies...
 
Gunna be honest, your vet sucks at dosing. Most cats never need more than 3, sometimes 4 units. I think your cat's dose is most likely way too high. start testing, we will help.... and you are exactly right... you tried it her way for five months... now it's time to try this way. She would never suggest a person inject their child with insulin without testing first, so I don't know why in the world she would think it's ok to tell you not to test your cat. I have a video in my signature showing how I test me cat that you might find helpful.

The other thing I want to say is that I don't think you are feeding your cat enough. Unregulated cats can't process the nutrients properly, so they are literally starving even though they are eating. Ditch the dry food all together... it's high in carbs... but add in other food. I would do a half can in the morning, 1/2 mid day, 1/2 in the evening and 1/2 before bed. JUST DON'T FEED two hours before preshot testing so that the numbers are not food influenced. Truely, unless it's 2 hours to preshot testing, and she's hungry, FEED HER.

You know, there was one visit where it was a different vet on duty because mine was away and she had made this comment about Abby's dose (at the time 3 units) and how it was a "whopping dose for a kitty that size." It had worried me but at our next appointment the regular lady didn't seem phased. Lesson learned. :-/

Also thanks for the mention on her food. She inhales what we give her (and whatever she manages to chew through if she breaks into the pantry :( ), so I'm sure she would eat more. Unfortunately our work schedule is such that I wouldn't be able to space them into 4 feedings. I think I'll switch her to a full can of the wet food twice a day and see if she does any better on that.
 
You can use a human meter to test. You will get lower readings than the Alphatrak meter your vet probably uses, but that's ok. If you what a pet specific meter, I do love my alphatrak, but the strips are about a dollar each. You said you have human meters already, so I would just use one of those as long as they are ones that require a small (.3) blood size. Most on these boards use a human meter because the strips are much less expensive. The Walmart brand Relion Micro or Confirm meters are popular because you can get 100 test strips for about $36. Either way you decide is fine.

You don't need a perscription to get test strips. If you go with a pet meter, I usually order strips either off of amazon or from adwdiabetes.com

Other things you may want to home test:
28 gauge lancets (ask a pharmacist... most human meters come with 31 guage which are small when you fist start testing... 28's are larger)
cotton rounds to put behind the ear as you poke
and a bit of neosporin ointment with pain relief to help the little ears heal after a day of testing.

This helped me double-check my list and I'm heading to the store as soon as I'm done checking my email here. Thank you!! :) :)
 
I'm having a bit of trouble finding information on what her readings should be when I test her at home? I do plan to buy the ReliOn Confirm/Micro since the test strips are literally half the price of those for my OneTouch. Since those produce different readings than an animal-specific glucometer, does that mean there's a specific reference for what the values should be? It sounds like if there is a result <200 AMPS or PMPS I'd delay her insulin shot until she ate it brought it back up a bit. But beyond that not sure what I'm looking for. What value is considered too high? Is there a different cutoff some set length of time post-shot?

As a comparison, when I had gestational diabetes I frequently tested before each meal and 1 hour after each meal. This helped me greatly in understanding how my body reacted to my food, etc. Is there any benefit to testing Abby some length of time after each of her meals as well or occasionally at first?

Gosh, I have a pit in my stomach thinking of how severe her symptoms have gotten before I finally started looking into it on my own. Based on what I've read through this site just today it seems that Abby is acting hypoglycemic in the 2 or so hours leading up to her meals each day, then a few hours after her meals she's almost the opposite, very quiet and sort of "out of it." I'm hoping testing her at home will help give me a clearer picture of what is going on. And I'm hopeful that that information will be of value in discussion with my vet (current or new...) about how to resolve.

THANK YOU again everyone. <3
 
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You know, there was one visit where it was a different vet on duty because mine was away and she had made this comment about Abby's dose (at the time 3 units) and how it was a "whopping dose for a kitty that size." It had worried me but at our next appointment the regular lady didn't seem phased. Lesson learned. :-/

Also thanks for the mention on her food. She inhales what we give her (and whatever she manages to chew through if she breaks into the pantry :( ), so I'm sure she would eat more. Unfortunately our work schedule is such that I wouldn't be able to space them into 4 feedings. I think I'll switch her to a full can of the wet food twice a day and see if she does any better on that.
Maybe give her one in the morning, half in the evening and another half just before you go to bed. I'm glad you are going to feed more.

Some here use automatic timed feeders.
 
I'm having a bit of trouble finding information on what her readings should be when I test her at home? I do plan to buy the ReliOn Confirm/Micro since the test strips are literally half the price of those for my OneTouch. Since those produce different readings than an animal-specific glucometer, does that mean there's a specific reference for what the values should be? It sounds like if there is a result <200 AMPS or PMPS I'd delay her insulin shot until she ate it brought it back up a bit. But beyond that not sure what I'm looking for. What value is considered too high? Is there a different cutoff some set length of time post-shot?

As a comparison, when I had gestational diabetes I frequently tested before each meal and 1 hour after each meal. This helped me greatly in understanding how my body reacted to my food, etc. Is there any benefit to testing Abby some length of time after each of her meals as well or occasionally at first?

Gosh, I have a pit in my stomach thinking of how severe her symptoms have gotten before I finally started looking into it on my own. Based on what I've read through this site just today it seems that Abby is acting hypoglycemic in the 2 or so hours leading up to her meals each day, then a few hours after her meals she's almost the opposite, very quiet and sort of "out of it." I'm hoping testing her at home will help give me a clearer picture of what is going on. And I'm hopeful that that information will be of value in discussion with my vet (current or new...) about how to resolve.

THANK YOU again everyone. <3
If it were my cat I would start over at about 1-2 units. It may take a few days for her to stop bouncing from that incredibly high dose she was on... I would stick with the lower dose for at least 5 days to see what he effect is.

Vetsulin usually starts working in about 2 hours with the nadir (lowest point) at about 4-6 hours after preshot.

You will want to get a preshot test, then feed, then shoot. So if shot time is say 7 am, you'll want to test around 6:30-6:45, feed, theno give the insulin.

Since you don't know when you're cats typical nadir is, I would try to catch a reading about +4 (4 hours post shot), and +5 or 6.

Curves give lots of valuable info... That's testing every 2 hours for 12 hours.
 
And now that I've set up her spreadsheet, I see my answer about the ranges of readings we should be looking for. Testing starts tonight! Thank you everyone!
 
I'm having a bit of trouble finding information on what her readings should be when I test her at home? I do plan to buy the ReliOn Confirm/Micro since the test strips are literally half the price of those for my OneTouch. Since those produce different readings than an animal-specific glucometer, does that mean there's a specific reference for what the values should be? It sounds like if there is a result <200 AMPS or PMPS I'd delay her insulin shot until she ate it brought it back up a bit. But beyond that not sure what I'm looking for. What value is considered too high? Is there a different cutoff some set length of time post-shot?

As a comparison, when I had gestational diabetes I frequently tested before each meal and 1 hour after each meal. This helped me greatly in understanding how my body reacted to my food, etc. Is there any benefit to testing Abby some length of time after each of her meals as well or occasionally at first?

Gosh, I have a pit in my stomach thinking of how severe her symptoms have gotten before I finally started looking into it on my own. Based on what I've read through this site just today it seems that Abby is acting hypoglycemic in the 2 or so hours leading up to her meals each day, then a few hours after her meals she's almost the opposite, very quiet and sort of "out of it." I'm hoping testing her at home will help give me a clearer picture of what is going on. And I'm hopeful that that information will be of value in discussion with my vet (current or new...) about how to resolve.

THANK YOU again everyone. <3
I forgot to address your question about what readings you are looking for. OK, ON A HUMAN METER (not pet meter) "normal" for a non diabetic cat is 50-120. Under 50 you are approaching hypoglycemia. so when the numbers are getting into the 50'60's is when you want to give a snack of regular food to steer it a bit. If there's still a ways to go until nadir (lowest point) you may want to feed higher carb food to steer a bit more. Under 50 is when you want to act a bit more aggressively with syrup/honey.

above 120 is higher than is normal for a non diabetic cat. Of course you are probably going to see readings in the 300's-500's or even higher until we can get your cat regulated. Regulated means that you are consistently getting preshots around 200-300 with a nadir around 80-100. It won't happen overnight. It won't hurt the cat short term to be in high numbers but over time it can do damage, so that's why it's so important to give the insulin. It's much more dangerous to go too low then to go to high. It might take some time to actually get regulated. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Some very lucky cats, like my CC are able to go a step further and go into remission where they are in normal numbers after some time on insulin and are then diet controlled for a period of time... weeks to years to (knock on wood) forever.
 
And now that I've set up her spreadsheet, I see my answer about the ranges of readings we should be looking for. Testing starts tonight! Thank you everyone!
good job getting your spreadsheet going!! The first two weeks of testing can be a pain in the ass because their ears haven't learned to bleed yet... after a week or so the cat will start to grow little capilarries in the ear that make getting a sample much easier. so don't give up! If after three tries you are still coming up dry, give yourself and the cat a 10 min break and try again. if you loose patience or get upset it won't help, ya know? OH, and always give a snack after a test (even if it's a failed attempt) so that the cat associates testing with treats. For my cat I gave deli meat or catnip. something low carb of course... no party mix or temptations. :)
 
Gosh, I have a pit in my stomach thinking of how severe her symptoms have gotten before I finally started looking into it on my own. Based on what I've read through this site just today it seems that Abby is acting hypoglycemic in the 2 or so hours leading up to her meals each day, then a few hours after her meals she's almost the opposite, very quiet and sort of "out of it." I'm hoping testing her at home will help give me a clearer picture of what is going on. And I'm hopeful that that information will be of value in discussion with my vet (current or new...) about how to resolve.

THANK YOU again everyone. <3

You have received great advice here. And yes when cat is running high glucose they are super hungry. AND when to low of a glucose they are hungry because their body needs food to get the glucose higher. When to low they can also have symptoms that make them look drunk or possibly just be unresponsive. From your previous post and the amount of insulin being given, I think you were/ are seeing low glucose episodes. Once you start your home testing you will know for sure.
 
Just did our very first at-home test and it was easy peazy! Trying to figure out how best to hold her is a bit awkward but finding this site, the advice I received today, and our success in getting the supplies we needed and trying out a test tonight have given my husband and I hope for our fur baby. Thanks so much again everyone, will keep you posted.
 
Welcome to the very best place you never thought you'd ever need. There is lots of experience and support here to help you help your kitty feel better. When we first got our diabetes diagnosis we decided to try Vetsulin. When we first found this site we basically knew nothing about insulin or diabetes for that matter. one of the first things we learned that really helped our kitty was that frequent testing helped us see what was happening to him. Our experience is with just this one cat, but he started feeling the impact of the insulin very quickly after his shot. So to help him feel better we learned to time his meals so that he got part of it about 30 min before his shot and the rest of it about 1 hour after the shot. Then he'd get more food at about 2 hours after the shot and another snack about 3 -4 hours after his shot. You will learn a great deal by testing and the wise and experienced people here can help you interpret the numbers so you know what to do next. :cat:
 
Also thanks for the mention on her food. She inhales what we give her (and whatever she manages to chew through if she breaks into the pantry :( ), so I'm sure she would eat more. Unfortunately our work schedule is such that I wouldn't be able to space them into 4 feedings. I think I'll switch her to a full can of the wet food twice a day and see if she does any better on that.
I should have asked first about working :smuggrin:. Like Janet said, some use automatic timed feeders like PetSafe 5-meal feeder or WOpet 1 meal feeder. If funds are tight right now you can try "catfoodsicles". Add some water to wet food to make a thick stew consistency and freeze portions. Should probably add 1-2T of water to her meals anyway, hydration is good for diabetics :). So when you leave / go to bed, leave a catfoodsicle out and it will be ready for her to eat in a few hours, depending on temperature of the house too. We're about to get a heat wave :rolleyes:
 
I should have asked first about working :smuggrin:. Like Janet said, some use automatic timed feeders like PetSafe 5-meal feeder or WOpet 1 meal feeder. If funds are tight right now you can try "catfoodsicles". Add some water to wet food to make a thick stew consistency and freeze portions. Should probably add 1-2T of water to her meals anyway, hydration is good for diabetics :). So when you leave / go to bed, leave a catfoodsicle out and it will be ready for her to eat in a few hours, depending on temperature of the house too. We're about to get a heat wave :rolleyes:

Had literally never heard of such a thing. My world is forever expanded. Thank you!
 
Hello, I just came across your post and I really do feel for you and what you're going through here.

I am fairly new here as well but just wanted to reassure you that this is the best place you could've turned to for advice!
I was going to recommend you the automatic pet feeder as well, it is just brilliant.

I also wanted to encourage you not to be afraid to change vets if you don't feel you are getting the best care or your gut feeling says that something is not right.

We had to change vets as the first one just put Josie on 3 units of Caninsulin straightaway admitting he was 'only guessing' and it just didn't feel right. Then I looked up Caninsulin/Vetsulin website to have a good read plus found this forum and everyone was mortified to hear that Josie was on such high dosage to begin with!? It should've been only 1 unit to start with gradually increasing by half a unit if needed to increase.

I had several arguments with my husband over not trusting our vet anymore and as I wouldn't let it go he finally gave in and we changed vets. Our current one is very knowledgeable, open to suggestions and we are working well together.

Now my husband admits that he was wrong going 'blindly' with whatever the vet said and admires that I had the guts to stick up for our cat and was brave enough to ditch the old vet. He fully supports the new vet and agreed that I made the right decision by changing.
We ditched the dry food completely and spread 4 pouches of wet food throughout the day til late night and our food addict Josie seem to be content with this.
Josie's case is still not straightforward and Im still learning something new every day but I am confident and have every faith that in between my vet, myself and all the fabulous members here we can get her on the right track!

Good luck to you and Abby, I will be following your case and hoping to see a lot of improvement soon! :cat: :)
 
Just did our very first at-home test and it was easy peazy! Trying to figure out how best to hold her is a bit awkward but finding this site, the advice I received today, and our success in getting the supplies we needed and trying out a test tonight have given my husband and I hope for our fur baby. Thanks so much again everyone, will keep you posted.
I'm so glad the test went well!!!! You'll find your groove and the best technique. Haha. Testing is very empowering and gives you some control. Now this morning try to get a preshot test in and post it.
 
She is fed every 12 hours at the same time as we give her the insulin injection. And the fur loss is toward the center of her shoulders. We rotate where we give her injections along the shoulder line and the fur loss is not everywhere. Just in the center. Thank you :) :)
I have not read every post but a couples of quick notes;
Noah and his brother were both on Caninsulin/Vetsulin and were switched to free feeding, it's been working for years.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Insulin is absorbed more quickly when injected into muscle mass so maybe switch from the shoulders to the neck.
I have neuropathic pain, awful. Pain will make any creature do strange things. Noah needs total dental extraction but the surgery will kill him so he's been on transdermal BUPE for over a year and has handled it very well. No stumbling, good appetite. I am not urging you to turn Abby into a drug addict but that's what Noah is now and he's not just surviving, he's a fairly happy cat.
A lot to take in for you and us, I wish you luck. Some of us break the rules but they are there for a good reason, N2C No two cats are the same!
 
Are you home testing? I suspect you may have bypassed the correct dose for Abby and she is doing something we call "bouncing." :bighug:
Sorry, forgot this, it's the 3rd post from the top. Noah bounces, I get him fairly regulated and every few weeks or months we have to start all over again like it's our first day home. Bouncing should be something vets make us more aware of, I never knew of it until I came here.
 
Sorry, forgot this, it's the 3rd post from the top. Noah bounces, I get him fairly regulated and every few weeks or months we have to start all over again like it's our first day home. Bouncing should be something vets make us more aware of, I never knew of it until I came here.
The vet I was with when Squallie was first diagnosed never said a word about bouncing, either. Of course, that's the same vet who refused to tell me what the symptoms of a hypo were, just said. "Oh, don't worry, you'll know if it happens." BS. That is only one of many reasons she is my former vet.
 
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Hello, I just came across your post and I really do feel for you and what you're going through here.
I had several arguments ..... not trusting our vet anymore ..... finally gave in and we changed vets.
......admires that I had the guts to stick up for our cat and was brave enough to ditch the old vet! :cat: :)
Just wanted to give you a little cheer up for Sunday. Monica got a little miracle, I've had them too. Sometimes we have to trust in strangers or a new vet, sometimes it wasn't a miracle it all, just a thorn. It can be hard too but there's a lot of love here, a strange thing for people to offer up so freely, or maybe not so strange. I believe.
 
I agr

The vet I was with when Squallie was first diagnosed never said a word about bouncing, either. Of course, that's the same vet who refused to tell me what the symptoms of a hypo were, just said. "Oh, don't worry, you'll know if it happens." BS. That is only one of many reasons she is my former vet.
You just reminded me of what our ex vet said when diagnosed Josie: 'You just keep giving the 3 unit insulin shots, oh and have a bottle of Lucozade energy drink in your fridge, if you see Josie staring blank, her head going floppy or walking funny just pour some in her mouth and she'll be fine..' That was all our brief crash course on hypo...
 
You just reminded me of what our ex vet said when diagnosed Josie: 'You just keep giving the 3 unit insulin shots, oh and have a bottle of Lucozade energy drink in your fridge, if you see Josie staring blank, her head going floppy or walking funny just pour some in her mouth and she'll be fine..' That was all our brief crash course on hypo...
:eek::stop:!!
 
Hello, I just came across your post and I really do feel for you and what you're going through here.

I am fairly new here as well but just wanted to reassure you that this is the best place you could've turned to for advice!
I was going to recommend you the automatic pet feeder as well, it is just brilliant.

I also wanted to encourage you not to be afraid to change vets if you don't feel you are getting the best care or your gut feeling says that something is not right.

We had to change vets as the first one just put Josie on 3 units of Caninsulin straightaway admitting he was 'only guessing' and it just didn't feel right. Then I looked up Caninsulin/Vetsulin website to have a good read plus found this forum and everyone was mortified to hear that Josie was on such high dosage to begin with!? It should've been only 1 unit to start with gradually increasing by half a unit if needed to increase.

I had several arguments with my husband over not trusting our vet anymore and as I wouldn't let it go he finally gave in and we changed vets. Our current one is very knowledgeable, open to suggestions and we are working well together.

Now my husband admits that he was wrong going 'blindly' with whatever the vet said and admires that I had the guts to stick up for our cat and was brave enough to ditch the old vet. He fully supports the new vet and agreed that I made the right decision by changing.
We ditched the dry food completely and spread 4 pouches of wet food throughout the day til late night and our food addict Josie seem to be content with this.
Josie's case is still not straightforward and Im still learning something new every day but I am confident and have every faith that in between my vet, myself and all the fabulous members here we can get her on the right track!

Good luck to you and Abby, I will be following your case and hoping to see a lot of improvement soon! :cat: :)

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! :) :)
 
You just reminded me of what our ex vet said when diagnosed Josie: 'You just keep giving the 3 unit insulin shots, oh and have a bottle of Lucozade energy drink in your fridge, if you see Josie staring blank, her head going floppy or walking funny just pour some in her mouth and she'll be fine..' That was all our brief crash course on hypo...
Just wow
 
You just reminded me of what our ex vet said when diagnosed Josie: 'You just keep giving the 3 unit insulin shots, oh and have a bottle of Lucozade energy drink in your fridge, if you see Josie staring blank, her head going floppy or walking funny just pour some in her mouth and she'll be fine..' That was all our brief crash course on hypo...
OMG! :eek::eek::eek::nailbiting:
 
Those sort of Vets I would like to say, how would you feel if a doctor told you if your kid was having a seizure, just turn them on their side and they'll be fine. They'd probably have the same blank look of "Did you really just say that?!" it causes us.
 
Just did our very first at-home test and it was easy peazy! Trying to figure out how best to hold her is a bit awkward but finding this site, the advice I received today, and our success in getting the supplies we needed and trying out a test tonight have given my husband and I hope for our fur baby. Thanks so much again everyone, will keep you posted.
Can you add the type of food you are feeding to your signature?
 
You'll find your groove and the best technique...Testing is very empowering and gives you some control.
You are just one of the vets many patients, he has no idea what kind of common sense you have. "Self empowerment" sound like a motivational speech. It's only a test, not rocket surgery. believe in yourself! Trust yourself and the cat will trust you, that's why they don't hide behind the furnace when you come for them. We all have ideas about what matters in our lives, if someone else cannot accept that then that is their problem.
 
You are just one of the vets many patients, he has no idea what kind of common sense you have. "Self empowerment" sound like a motivational speech. It's only a test, not rocket surgery. believe in yourself! Trust yourself and the cat will trust you, that's why they don't hide behind the furnace when you come for them. We all have ideas about what matters in our lives, if someone else cannot accept that then that is their problem.
it is empowering... For me anyway. I felt much more in control and more confident in my cats care after I learned to test.
 
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