? 6.26 Bubba 84,+2.25=87,+4.75=67

Gel caps would definitely make giving the dose easier, but if you don't have gel caps don't despair. I didn't have gel caps when I had to give it to Darius. Just make sure you get the pill as far back into his mouth as possible and then wash it down with 4 - 5 ml water. It can be done.


ETA: Maybe he'd take it willingly if wrapped in a bit of meat or cheese.

 

Sending prayers.

 

((((( Bobbie)))))))
Sending vines and tons of prayers go Rd see Bubba . Sory I can't helpp.

 

Sending vines!

 

Sending vines and Prayers for Bubba. I hope they can figure out what ails him soon.

 

How do the gel caps work? They sent me home with liquid metronidazole beef flavor. He still won't eat and as soon as we got home he went in the box with diarrhea! I can't give the metro until he eats meantime he has had no insulin yet for PM it is 2 hours late and I don't know if I should give it to him or not with no eating??

 

Piling on more feel better vines for Bubba! And hugs for you!

 

Hope everything is working out for both of you.

 

I'm home all ready , got baby food chicken and sprinkled florti flora on it and it won't touch it.

 

What do I do about the insulin. He has had none tonight he is 2 hours late at this point. Should I give him .25 of a unit?

 

Optimistically, Bubba might need a moment or two to settle first.

 

does your vet open early?
The only thing I would give on a empty tummy if it was Dre or Rico is florastor mixed with a tiny bit of baby food-
If it was mine I would probably mix a sprinkle of florastor and 1/4 cc of baby food to see if he keeps it down-I would repeat often if he can tolerate it.
the cerenia should work quickly-
sending prayers Bobbi

 

I need to go get the Florastar.

 

he gave you liquid AB?

 

I don't know if this is a terrible suggestion or not but maybe a bit of greek yogurt if he will eat it? As for the insulin, I'd be a bit nervous since he's not eating and vomited everything from earlier but I'm not very experienced with all this still so maybe one of the veterans can give better advice. Sending prayers, hugs and vines

 

Yes liquid Metro they assured me no sugar.

 

What should I do about the insulin tonight?

 

Just my opinion but I think I would wait to give the AB until he eats a good meal.... I hate to see it make him start puking...
I have a feeling you will be in the parking lot when your vet opens
If liquid AB no way to give that I know of except syringe in mouth -- this is a strong AB.....not saying it is bad just not on empty stomach.

 

I don't know about insulin...
what is his bg now?

 

Bobbie, how long has it been since he's thrown any ketones?

 

If you do syringe, follow with a syringe of tuna water or something that tastes better.

Cat sized gel caps are small. Theoretically, if the gelcap is small enough for the cat's throat and if the AB dose fits - but you'd have to be fast. Put water into an empty gelcap and time how long it takes to dissolve. Then you would know how long you have to fill, coat outside with a bit of butter, and pill.

 

and what is his BG now?

 

I think I would skip the shot tonight, or else give a half dose. You don't want him dropping too low on top of everything else.

It sounds like it will be a long night for you. If you don't give a shot at least you won't have to test in addition to all the other meds and fluids.

 

Dec 8 , 2015

 

Many prayers going up for Bubba and you!

 

Sorry Bobbie. I had to run out. I see Jill is here, too. I might be tempted to give him somewhere between 0.1 and 0.25u. You’ve stalled so that should help a bit; since they didn’t know exactly what was going on, I’d be worried about any potential for ketones developing. IMHO.

You can syringe feed him to keep numbers up if he’s got something on board for nausea. And I also agree that I would be sure he has something in his tummy before giving him those antibiotics. That’s pretty standard for most antibiotics...take with food. Even if you watered down a bit of baby food and fed him a few syringes of that first, that would be better than giving it on an empty tummy.

 

What's his BG now and what +hour are we at right now?

 

127

 

(((Bobbie)))

Do you have any food you can syringe feed? Instead of A/D, I prefer Royan Canin Recovery or Iams MaxCal. Both are FD friendly, though higher %carb (8-9%). Maxcal is higher calorie so less needs to go in. Both are very easy to syringe feed with just a bit of water added. If you think you can get food into him with assist feeding, you should be OK with a reduced shot. The other option is to Magic Bullet some food. I'd go with slightly higher carb. That's when I did when Neko was off her fuds recently.

 

127 @14.5

 

You could try giving him tiny little amounts on a teaspoon. For some reason, if any of the cats here are off their food, spoon feeding them seems to help (though I suspect it's only because they like the extra attention).

 

I don't have any of either of those. I got some baby food, he ate a few bites and stopped.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would skip tonight's shot if you're truly afraid you won't be able to get any food into him, but shoot an hour earlier than usual in the morning. It's a calculated risk, but I'd take it given it's been months since he's had ketones. In the meantime, if he happens to rise quickly, you can always give him tiny doses of R every 6 hours if necessary.

I like this idea.

 

He started eating!! Off the spoon now on his own.! I will get some insulin in him but only a .25 I think would be best.

 

I was shocked to find that Rico would eat the baby food off my finger but not on a plate or spoon--I think body temp may warm it and give it a little more smell? Don't really know why but I put my finger right under his nose and he will eat more.... just a thought??

 

I wouldn't shoot any more than a half dose in case he vomits.

 

YEAHHHHH!!!

 

What good news! Hope he keeps eating for you, and keeps it down

 

maybe the cerenia and fluids kicked in

 

Remember, you have a tool most don't have and you know how to use it if necessary: R.

 

It worked!!! Thanks you

 

Good luck! I hope he holds his food down!

 

Lots of vines and prayers for you and Mr. Bubb's.

 

thanks me too! The only baby food I could find was Gerbers and it has corn starch, hope he'll be okay with that. I got SEB and the Florastar probiotic in it.

 

I'm so glad it worked for you! I'm sure it's nothing more than cats enjoying the new way of eating and the undivided attention, but for the small amount of extra time it takes it's worth it!

Gerbers meat and broth baby food does have a little bit of cornstarch, but I've not noticed it have an effect on BG. I think the amount may be too small to make a real difference to his numbers.

 

Glad he ate. Now that the insulin and food issue is resolved for right now, I’d stay away from the fortiflora. It has animal digest in it and can potentially cause more vomiting when he’s sick. I think the Florastar S. boulardii is a good idea because you should be able to readily get it.

At some time in the future, you can look at possibly ordering the Renew Life Advanced Immunity because it has some good stuff in it for the immune system.

Sending more prayers. Eat Bubba Eat! The corn starch in the baby food might raise his BG which would be ok if he’s not eating a lot.

 

I am more worried about him being sensitive to the corn as he had a bad reaction to dry food that had corn last year before FD DX

 

Bobbie - so happy he is eating, but I would prioritize what to worry about right now

 

Thanks for that info. The metro is liquid and it's 1 ml twice a day, I don't know the what the strength is.

 

Great news that he's eaten something!

 

Glad he's eaten something!

 

I'm so sorry. It does sound like pancreatitis to me. If it's an acute attack IV fluids might be needed. If you are still there it would be a good idea to at least get the test for it, the SpecFPL and not the SNAP test.. Beechnut does not contain cornstarch but my cats were never crazy about it. The ham Gerbers has always been the five.

I don't know why they gave you liquid metronizadole. Even tge pills need to be out in a gel cap. I've put liquid in them but it's really hard and with nasty tasting stuff it would be on the outside of it anyway. Can you get tge pills?

So glad he is eating!

 

You can use Zyrtec regular strength 1/4 a pill to start as an appetite stimulant. I hVe been giving it to Max for sneezing and have read in the past it works as an appetite stimulant. It does for Max. You can give up to 1/2 a 10mg pill but I'd start with 1/4. It can be given twice a day.

 

Bobbie! Oh dear, what a day you've had! Will be thinking of you & Bubba and sending healing vines for him, and calming vines for you. Glad he's eaten a little - it was good that you took him in for fluids and anti nausea med. Hugs to you as you try to rest tonight!!

 

I will ask my vet tomorrow about pill metronizadole. Could you explain to me about he gel caps? Where do you get them and why put a pill inside one. I don't get the concept. I will have the vet do the SpecFPL tomorrow.

 

Thanks for that info too. I was shocked that he would not give me an appy stimulate.

 

Some health food stores carry cat sized gel caps. You need size 3 or 4. The smallest size is 5 but I've only gotten those from Thrivingpets.com. I am fine with either size 3 or 4 or 5.I was never successful getting them that way but call and ask. A compounding pharmacy will have them. You can get the 4's on Amazon. That is where I got my last ones. Another on line store is capsuline.com.

I put pills and pill pieces in them because that way they don't taste the medicine. My Tiffany was hard to pill at first. I tried pill pockets but she tasted Pepcid in one and never ate a pill pocket again. I chase them with Gerbers ham or if not eating a syringe of water.

 

The magic bullet is a great idea. I poached chicken yesterday and will do up some tonight with a little water. Where do you get the Roan Canin Recovery or Iams MaxCal; are they available at pet stores or through the vet.

 

Shucks I was just at the health food store today getting the SEB. But, tell me why you would use them. I just don't understand the concept. I must be thick; and I guess lucky the I never had to before now. Are they instead of a pill pocket to disguise the taste of of the pill?

 

Gel caps are simply unfilled capsules. You can get them at a pharmacy or online. Capsuline is an online source that makes them in a size for pets. You put a pill inside if the pill is bitter. I once gave Gabby benedryl. It was so bitter she started foaming. It would have been better if I had a capsule to put the pill in so she didn't have a reaction to it.

 

Iams Max Cal is at the vet and if your vet doesn’t have it, you’ll likely have to have a prescription from him to get it at another vet. I’m not sure about the Recovery.

 

That's what happened tonight when I gave him the metro liquid, he starting drooling and foaming.

 

I give this to Murphy every single day and it has no effect on his appetite at all - I still need to give cyproheptadine and I asked the vet who said I could give both antihistamines at the same time

 

The two compounding pharmacies in my town only carry human-sized gel caps, as do the health food stores. You will probably have to order. Here is a size chart for reference. http://www.torpac.com/images/size charts/000-5-chart-web.jpg

 

Or Bobbie - if you have the SEB or anything else you give him in capsule form, empty out the capsules and put whatever you need to in it

 

It's ine of those ECID things. Cypro and mirtazapine don't work for all either. All you can do is try them and see.

 

I will need to get these if I am going to continue with the liquid metro, he hated it foamed and drooled.

 

Oh yeah, I asked that earlier, I am sooooo tired I can't think straight.

 

I use #5 gel caps daily and they work really great.
If I need to give a yucky pill I crush it and fill the empty capsule.
I get them from capsulCN
I have ordered other places and they cracked. I like these a lot.

 

But I can put the liquid metro in one?

 

I've got #5s (I think). I'll measure how much liquid it holds and then check it for a few minutes to see if the gelcap dissolves too quickly.

Gelcaps are quite cheap, and always good to have on hand.

 

What is the dose ?
Do u think your regular vet would give you pills ?

 

I've got #3s. Must have given #5s to shelter.

First attempt, got water on the outside. Gelcap leaked and collapsed immediately.
Second attempt, made sure everything was bone dry. The tip of a Luer Lock 3cc syringe fits inside the bottom part nicely. Took roughly 2 minutes to soften and become unstable as a shell.

#3 only held less than 0.3ml in bottom (larger) half of gelcap.

 

I don't know the strength but the dose is 1 ml. twice daily. I will get the pills from vet, I think will be easier.

 

For sure easier
1ml is a lot of size 5 capsules
How is he doing Bobbie ?
Keeping the food down ok ?

 

Both Maxcal and Recovery are vet only foods. I found it harder to get Maxcal here, but Mariko got some from me from her vet's clinic (no prescription needed).

I got #4 gelcaps from the compounding pharmacy, and #5's from the specialty vet. The compounding pharmacy said they can't get capsule fillers for #5's, so they don't use them. Another source for capsules is CapsuleDepot - they make flavored ones for pets.

My civie was on 50 mg metronidaxoie pills, they are fairly small and I could hide them in a treat or piece of boilded chicken. My two go to treats now are rehydrating some Natures Variety rabbit Mixers (perfect size), or in a slice of ostrich/buffalo pepperoni for pets (pure meat). I also have to do the novel protein thing. I just tried them in gel caps, and you need the #3 size, they are too big for #4s.

 

Bobbie, I just got back on the Board after a few days off and read about the nightmare you're going through with our dear Bubba. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this!

I use gelcaps all the time for my cats. You can also get them from Thrivingpets.com. They are great for keeping the pill from dissolving before it is swallowed, which can cause the foaming. They are also great if you have to give more than one pill, as it cuts down on how many times you have to put them through the pilling procedure. I can pack a dose of Ondansetron, Cypro and Pepcid into a #3 gelcap!

Some people have said they found them at a pharmacy, but I have never tried that. I know the pet stores I have checked have not had them. You do not want anything bigger than a #3. Chances are, if you are buying SEB in a capsule, it is bigger than that.

I have a whole cabinet full of foods that work for syringing. How I wished I lived near you! If you have any trouble getting the gelcaps, or the food, let me know and I'll send you either or both.

Meanwhile, I'm sending my strongest vines and prayers for Bubba, and lots of s for you.

 

Dear Bobbie
Sending more vines and prayers.

Gus gets lots of meds and it is very difficult to pill him, finally I had compounding pharmacy to prepare all meds in appropriate dose in the capsule form. It is working well for us but it is more costly.

 

Bobbie -
I put many different meds in size 3, 4, and 5 caps. I have lots of all three sizes. I can overnight you all 3 sizes today. Just PM me your address. I'm in Ohio, so they should get there really quick. I also make a powder (a flavoring really) for the outside of the capsules just from pure dehydrated chicken that I grind up with a mortar and pestle. I then get the outside of the cap slightly damp and roll in the flavoring. Most of my kitties love this so much they scarf up the capsule like a treat! I bet I have given thousands of doses of dozens of meds like this over the years. Will send caps and powder. Just send address!

IMO it won't work to put a liquid med in a capsule. The cap would get all gooey and start to melt. Plus it would take a lot of caps for 1mL of fluid, as others have said.

Hope Bubba feels better this morning!!

 

Hope Bubba is feeling better this morning!

 

Sending vetty vines

 

Fresh new prayers from us today!

 

Bobbie, I'm just seeing your ordeal, sending vines and prayers for dear Bubba to feel better soon, and it sounds as if you could do with a few of these
hang in there!

 

Thanks so much Tricia! I divinely have to start using the gel caps. You are so sweet to offer you foods for syrininging to me. I will be talking to the vet today to get some of these foods to have on hand should I need to resort to that.

 

How was he overnight Bobbie? Sending more prayers now!

 

I get Trix's gelcaps on Amazon....if you have Prime, you can get them very quickly!

Gelcaps on Amazon

 

I'm hoping he's eating better since he got the nausea medication. Make sure you get enough from your vet today. When Max gets the right one for him and enough of it he doesn't even need an appetite stimulant. At first his dose was too low and he needed cyproheptadine to eat. Vines and prayers and hugs.
Gel caps I uses and the smallest 5's that were suggested.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=size 5 gelatin caps

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...4 gelatin caps&rh=i:aps,k:size 4 gelatin caps (mine from herb affair)

 

Hi Sandy, he's doing good. I just started a new thread and update.

 

They gave him the cerenia and the famotidine. Are they both for nausea?

 

cerenia is antiinflammatory and anti emetic - famotidine is pepcid and for acid stomach but is used for nausea Zolfran is better for that, I think

 

Cerenia is what most vets give as it's a vet med and works for most. Carol is right it is an anti-inflammatory too . Ondansetron is the generic for zofran which is what I use for Max. It is a human med and most vets don't sell it. If they do I bet they charge more than if you get it at Costco. Get a prescription and use Good RX for pricing. It should be less than $1 per pill. You can use it too so I buy 60 at a time as the price is less per pill. It works well for nausea. Some cats need both. Whether pepcid works or not is up for debate with the latest literature. It would be one I would not give if you want to cut back on meds. It is very bitter. Many use if if spitting up foam after not eating for several hours if stomach acid is the issue.

 

That has only happened to him maybe twice in the past year. I did not give him the famotidine today and I think I will hold off on it. The ER vet said give for 10 days twice a day.