? 6 July Tucker AMPS: 18.5(333) Shot 4.25

Ok, I have some questions about this. After being in blue at midnight and being given a protein 'good boy' snack after his test I got up this morning to a, 18.5 test. I thought it seemed wrong so with the same blood sample I retested and got 25.6! I tested one more time and got 29... I'm trusting Tucker's life to pre-shot blood testing and I get these variances? I'm using a Freestyle Lite, it is the second one I've purchased because I got some wonky results with my first monitor. I rang the company and they told me that it is not suitable for testing an animal but they still sent out a new meter. I'm worried about this.

 

Sorry I responded to yesterday's post first. Here is the link to that post. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/5-july-tucker-amps-19-1-344-4-25.197900/

Meters can vary by up to 20% in their readings. That's quite a bit at higher numbers. You will find that any differences are much smaller at the lower numbers, which is where you need it to be more accurate. Did you do all those tests in the same blood drop? 29 and 25.6 are within meter variance.

 

Hi There, I used the same drop of blood for all 3 tests. The 18-25-29 spread seemed like a lot to me.

 

Your tests
18.5
25.6
29
------
= 24.4 average

As Wendy said, there can be a 20% variation. Let's say the BG was actually 24.4. The variance would be
19.6 (20% less)
24.4 actual
29.3 (20% more)

In that case the 18.5 reading could have been a small error. As you reach smaller numbers, the numerical variance is smaller like Wendy said. I use FreeStyle Lite strips in AlphaTrak 2. Once in awhile, a bad strip. But mostly I get about the same results every day.

 

I understand. It still seems just bizarre that the same drop of blood could give such different readings, but I'm a novice at this. His PM was 15.3 and now I've done a +6 and he is 15.7. We increased his dose tonight so we'll just see where tomorrow takes us.

 

The testing technology for spot tests is (obviously) imprecise. I suppose higher quality spot tests could be engineered. But we consumers want it cheap, so that has probably driven precision quality down. I see the same thing with my swimming pool tests. I can use a test strip, which give me a rough idea. If I use the expensive kit, I get better results. The expensive kit has you collect water and put it in a measured device, then you add drops of chemicals and compare the colors.

I hope Tucker regulates soon. It might be at this dose. Maybe more will be needed.

 

Sorry that I've been posting in the 10 June thread. I'll post in the more recent ones from now on!

Here's what I posted on 10 June:
Don't despair re: the number swings! This is typical at the beginning as their bodies try to adjust to insulin and new food. If you want to feel better, just look at Girlie's spreadsheet from 2017: Insane drops and bounces! She settled down finally when I switched her to Levemir (Detemir), and she's got lovely numbers now, but the early months drove me crazy.

What food are you feeding? Are you feeding wet food? I drove myself crazy as well trying to figure out what low carb, medium carb and high carb food I could get here in Australia. You need all three so you can deal with quick drops or a hypo incident. Absolutely IDEAL for hypo (drops into dangerous lime green territory) are the Weruva Cats in the Kitchen pouches: just cut the edge off and squeeze the gravy out and give it a tsp at a time if you have a hypo number. This enables you to get higher carbs in without filling their tummies too quickly. You can find links to the hypo toolkits and how to handle a hypo on this sticky.
The Weruva Cats in the Kitchen cans are also really good as far as being low carb and low phosphorous (important if you have a kitty with kidney issues).

I've attached a list from Dr Pierson's US food chart (with the ones we can get here in Australia) of food with carb values, phosphorous, etc. Just be aware that the Wellness cans (e.g. Beef with Salmon, etc.) have changed their ingredients, so they're now much, much higher in phosphorous. I've also attached my Excel SS (__MC and LC.xlsx) that has a tab for MC (medium carb and high carb) and LC (low carb) food that I keep taped to my wall so I can easily know what to give Girlie when. The parenthetical references after the LC foods are the phosphorous levels.

Are you familiar with the protocols (star low go slow (SLGS) and tight regulation (TR)? It takes time for their little bodies to get used to having insulin again, so you might see wild swings in numbers. Girlie used to bounce really high when she got a yellow number or a blue number because her body wasn't used to having lower numbers. This is very common. I know how hard it is to wear patience pants (as they say here!), but it's worth it and we've all been there with the frustration and anxiety. You're in a great place: FDMB helped me get Girlie to where she is today and also saved me from losing my mind (as my vet didn't really know much about how to handle feline diabetes; many don't and advise dose switches that are too drastic too quickly - a source of frustration for many starting out on this board...)

 

We have been guiding her to start slow, and use 6 cycles on each 0.25 dose increase. Once Tucker achieves some blue numbers then either protocol could be used.

 

Good suggestion!

 

Sorry I missed these messages yesterday. We got hit by a big storm Friday night and lost power until late Saturday night. I was unable to post from my phone or read your messages.

 

@JeffJ Hi Jeff, just a quick question for you? I did a 11pm test on Tucker tonight and he was 10.9! Blueeee.......... Is it safe for me to go to bed with that low of a level or should I stay up and test again to see if he is rising??

 

Hi Patty
I'm writing a longer post to you about blood ranges. For now there is absolutely NOTHING to worry about. The whole blue range is 100% safe. That is great, just plain great - that Tucker is hitting some blue numbers. Do NOT stay up. Tucker is safe.

 

The longer post is in the newer thread now:
July 10 thread here

 

@JeffJ
That thread is a month old now!

Edited to add:

That's because there isn't any definitive/official information available. Anything found is a guesstimate by both members and vets (at best)... usually repeated over and over again until it eventually becomes "fact" on the FDMB. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around these days.

 

Oh drats, I thought it was July 10, not June 10. Someone had recently posted to that thread.

I can see where repetition of the BG ranges becomes fact through repetition. It seems like the human meter values are embedded in the spreadsheets though, with BG=50 as the upper end of the hypo range.

 

Yes, 50 is embedded in the spreadsheets because the spreadsheets were created for those following a tight regulation protocol in the the Lantus Group many years ago. They were also written for use with human meters. Other insulin groups on the board simply started using them. Pet-specific meters came into the picture after the fact.

When following a tight regulation protocol, one takes action when kitty drops below 50. One of the researchers who undoubtedly helped get the TR Protocol with Lantus or Levemir published chose a drop below 68 (not 69) as an indication to take action for those using a pet-specific meter... "chose" being the operative word. It's a number that was "chosen" to essentially provide a little buffer for those using a pet-specific meter since pet-specific meters *usually* run higher than meters calibrated for humans. It's important to note, 50 (human meter) does not = 68 (pet specific meter). There is no direct correlation.

Fact of the matter is, we don't "know" how pet-specific meters and human meters compare (number for number). My best advice to those who insist on using a pet-specific meter when following the protocols/methods written for use with human meters on this board is to do your own comparisons and do a lot of them. Those who have done quite a few comparisons have noted too many inconsistencies for my liking, but that's just me. One has to do their own comparisons because meters themselves have varying degrees of accuracy. For example, anecdotal evidence has illustrated some meters run higher than others, some lower than others, and some run higher/lower at different BG ranges! Personally, I think there's already too many variables when traveling this path. Who needs more? I've always strongly urged the use of human meters if the member wants to follow any of the dosing methods currently in use on the FDMB.

Another note: Those following a tight regulation protocol do not consider or call drops below 50/68 "a hypo" unless there are symptoms. The reason for that is when following a tight regulation protocol, regardless of the insulin used, kitty usually doesn't even earn a reduction until falling below 50/68 once or sometimes multiple times... or in some cases, dropping below 40 mg/dL (human meter). In other words, when following a tight regulation protocol one wants BG numbers to stay low... sometimes in numbers you're calling "hypo". Example: In TR with Lantus/Lev, from the TR Protocol:

"Don't let the cat go below 50 mg/dl (N.B. there are some cats that do well with BGs >=40 mg/dl and are difficult to regulate unless the dose is held at BGs in this range, but a cautious approach should be used until you are sure your cat reacts this way)." ---> emphasis mine
http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

I say "you", but you're not alone. The all inclusive use of the word "hypo" is yet another result of the "repeat-speak" which has become common on the board these days.


@Tucker - I apologize for hi-jacking your thread!

 

Thanks for the update Jill. I already understood most of this. My original intent was to help Patty with Tucker, since she is looking for regulation advice. And she has been doing a good job of it.

Also I have always appreciated your moderation. I was a moderator once (woodturner forum). A thankless task if there ever was one!

 

@Jill & Alex (GA) @JeffJ Thank you for all of this advice. I'm on a steep learning curve here!