7/11//Ravan/ pmps 88/+2 86/+4 67/+5.5 148/+8 469

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by JoyBee&Ravan, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    Reason for edit: correct
  2. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    There is a button at the bottom right corner called "upload a file" and you can attach the results.
    And if you go to Ravan's ss, there should be a tab called "Labs" that you can manually fill in the results.
     
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  3. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Poor Ravan! I hope the Pancretitis resolves soon. How is he eating?

    My civvie, Forrest, was recently DX with Stage 2 CKD. According to some of the peeps here, they can stay in that stage for quite some time before progresses. Did your vet try to talk you into the RX kidney diet? He wants Forrest off the raw but I said no.
     
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  4. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Bobbie And Bubba
    3 days ago he refused food for 24 hrs. I think he must have had an attack of Pancreatitis. I did syringe feed him a bit & he ate some raw liver. the next day he was eating good & still is. My vet was suggesting a kidney diet but I
    also said no. I need to start finding out everything about Pancreatitis & kidney failure I'm still shaking I nearly missed his insulin this morning
    Ravan was increased to 1.25 several days ago but his Bg is way too high Nearly 500. Do you know if I should increase again? With all he has wrong will it even bring his bg down?

    I'm not good with a computer Can I just copy & past his report in my post? that i know how to do.
    This morning he was sleeping on the kitchen floor & there was a puddle of urine. That's never happened. I'm so very upset & worried.

    Can I ask what meds is your cat on? I've never given Ravan any pills. (I had a cat choke to death on a Pill i put in his mouth. Ever since I just can't do pills.)

    I appreciate any advice & help !
     
  5. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    Thank you I just up loaded his report.
    Do I just wait for some one to read it & give me advice?
    Ravan's BG is so High Do I increase his dose ? Will it even help with him having all these things wrong?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Robbie & Oreo

    Robbie & Oreo Member

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    Mar 25, 2018
    I'm not any help on posting lab results...but just wanted to encourage you on kidney failure. Oreo was diagnosed with stage 2 kidney failure back in 2014 and is still doing pretty well. We have gone to daily subq fluids and nausea meds now, under supervision of her vet and she's 18 now and holding her own. I know it's a hard diagnosis to hear but it can be manageable for many years.
     
  7. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Mar 22, 2017
    The key here is 'kidney failure' is not really the right term. What Ravan has is chronic kidney disease (CKD). Did the vet discuss doing subq fluids? With the crea of 2.4 and BUN of 52, some fluids can be helpful. It seems there are issues with the liver, but I cannot interpret that very well (my cat never had issues with that so I didn't learn much about ALT and ALP). But I do know that p'titis could affect the liver numbers. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  8. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    Go to his ss and you will see a tab called labs,you have to manually put them in
     
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  9. Jill & Jade

    Jill & Jade Member

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    May 29, 2018
    My heart hurts for you and Ravan.....I'm so very sorry to hear this.
     
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  10. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    DF8240FE-BC53-4210-95B5-0FE0EB096120.png
    See there at the bottom
     
  11. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Robbie & Oreo
    Thank you for the encouragement! I'm still shaking from the bad news.It's good to hear that Oreo is still doing well!
    What did you do in the beginning for Oreo? Any meds? Did her BG go up really high? Ravan's BG is going up even after I increased his dose 4 days ago.
    I don't know for sure If I should increase it again now with the kidney & pancreatic problems. I was going to increase tonight to 1.5 but I need to know for sure if i should?

    I just looked at Oreo's SS it's better than Ravan's He has too many Black #'s

    This morning he was sleeping on the hardwood floor & there was a large puddle of urine behind him? If he was on the rug i wouldn't have seen it.

    Did you ever try any Herbal products for Her?
     
  12. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Bellasmom
    Thanks for the info I did post his Test on here & later I'll enter it in Labs. Thanks again! :bighug::bighug::):bighug::bighug:
     
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  13. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
  14. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    I assume you've probably shot this morning already but you could definitely increase by .25.
    @Mandy & Rex is totally correct; Ravan is not in kidney failure. Ravan has kidney disease. It can be managed! Fluids/meds (discuss with your vet). I have no knowledge of pancreatitis.

    I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie and ask if she can take a look at Ravan's lab results when she has a minute.
     
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  15. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Mandy & Rex
    My vet said that since Ravan was drinking so much water he didn't advise Sub Q (I thought it was a good idea. to give Sub Q) Wendy said to be very careful because her cat was pushed into Heart failure from too much fluid!

    My brain hurts trying to understand the best things to do for Ravan!

    I appreciate everyone's help. :) I looked at Rex's SS. He's in Remission ?? How Wonderful! I noticed you didn't hold the dose long but came up or down in a few days. I think I've been messing it all up by being afraid to increase his dose too
    often. The last 2 times I increased to 1.25 his BG dropped way down to 35 at the end of 2 weeks.I was told to reduce dose because it was too much insulin.
    Now I get worried about increasing his dose!
    Do you still have his SS from when he first got diagnosed?

    I appreciate your information so much!
    Thank You!
     
  16. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    If Ravan is taking in a lot of water and doesn't have dehydration, then it should be fine. I never did start subq fluids for my Tanner. He was in Stage 2 CKD for many years with no special accommodations, other than regular bloodwork to monitor his kidneys, along with his thyroid.

    If you want to look at all Rex's data, then you can click on the 2017 tab on the SS. Do keep in mind that I stopped giving dry food about 2 weeks before he started to come down the dosing ladder. It was a wild ride.

    I think you are safe to increase by 0.25u. Ravan needs to get into better numbers. You test enough.
     
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  17. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    I am glad that Judy tagged Marje as she is the "go to" person for lab interpretation.

    Glad the others cleared up Stage 2 CKD as opposed to kidney failure. As of now, my civvie is doing nothing for the CKD, he does take methimozole pill for hyper thyroid twice a day. It goes into his food.

    The inappropriate peeing is what took me to a Internal Medicine ( IM) vet and is when I discovered he was in stage 2 CKD. It still happens occasionally. He drinks a lot and pees a lot.
     
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  18. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    So he's peeing from the Kidney problems & not the BG/Diabetes?
    I thought if I got his Bg down he would not drink as much water or pee as much?
    I also thought the Kidney problem was caused by the diabetes?
     
  19. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    I thought he's drinking a lot of water because he IS Dehydrated. I thought if I gave him Sub Q he wouldn't need to drink so much?How do I know if is is dehydrated?
     
  20. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Did the Internal Medicine Vet put Bubba on any meds?
    What did you notice about his eye that it had cancer? Is that anything to do with the diabetes?
     
  21. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Mar 22, 2017
    I think it's better the cat takes in his own water, instead of you giving fluids. I could be wrong - I have zero experience with subq fluids. But one simple test for dehydration is to pull up the scruff and it should snap back. If it is slow to return, that is dehydration.
     
  22. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    I should mention Ravan's electrolytes all look normal he's not vomiting & he is eating good again.
    I'm going to increase his insulin tonight to 1.5 units.

    Thank you all again for your advice & encouragement! I've been alone for so long I forgot there are a lot of people that love their Kitties Like I love mine.
    Just someone to talk to about this is helping me so much.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  23. Robbie & Oreo

    Robbie & Oreo Member

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    Mar 25, 2018
    When Oreo was first diagnosed with CKD, she was not diabetic. That was 4 years ago, so she was about 14. We had taken her in because she was vomiting and had no appetite. At that time, we did 100 ml of fluids each day for about a week and gave her cimetidine liquid for the nausea/vomiting. We only had to do those things for a few days until she started eating on her own again. In the meantime I used a syringe to feed her. She was absolutely fine with no problems for 4 years until this past March. We took her in because appetite had gone down and she was weak and wobbly. Her creatinine was off the charts. Vets equipment couldnt even measure it. We started 100 ml fluids 2x a day and he diagnosed her with diabetes and diabetic neuropathy. In 2 weeks time, her creatinine was down to 2.9...not great but considering what it was...what a difference! She's considered stage 3 CKD and will be on 100 ml fluids 1x a day from now on. She also takes 1/4 pepcid ac and cyproheptadine in a gel cap everyday. Vet basically said pretty much all cats who live long enough will develop CKD. I have never tried herbal supplements with her. She's not been diagnosed with pancreatitis but I understand that's treatable too. I dont have any answers for you really...but wanted you to be encouraged that CKD can be managed and is certainly not a death sentence.
     
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  24. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    You have gotten some good advice. I want to add a couple of things. Anyone new to CKD should have Tanya's site as a resource. Just like FD, there is a ton of information to learn and understand, but this is an invaluable reference.

    Second thing is hydration status. In my opinion this is the single most important thing to understand at this point. If Ravan is drinking enough to stay well hydrated, that is the best thing, but if not, supplemental hydration via SQ should be considered. Your vet can guide you re: how much and how often, but I think most dealing with CKD will need to do this at some point. It is not difficult to do and it is well tolerated, so don't be afraid of it.

    The "skin test" to determine hydration status is good for younger cats, but if they are older, just like people, their skin is different (thin and slack) and may not snap back even if they are well hydrated. I would urge you to review with your vet re: how to check hydration status on your own so you know when to take action.

    In terms of what causes what, I think you should think of this more as a dynamic. Most of us focus on keeping lower BG numbers to keep the cat under renal threshold. This means we are keeping sugar low enough so that it doesn't spill into the kidneys. BG that is too high for too long can damage the kidneys. It is possible that Raven could have developed CKD because of FD, or maybe it is just part of aging. Tanya's site considers FD a "related disease" to CKD and offers a good overview here.

    I have been reviewing lots of blood work, so I also wanted to offer you this very helpful reference.

    Hope you are feeling better with the advice and experience others have shared. There is a lot to learn, but that is because there is a lot that can be done. :bighug:
     
  25. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Robbie & Oreo
    Thank you for answering my questions & for the Encouragement.
    Years ago most of my cats lived over 16 yrs & some to 23 None of them ever had Diabetes or Kidney problems.
    Ravan is from a litter of 5 kittens born in my garage. The mother cat was a stray & got hit by a car when the kittens were only 4 days old.After hand feeding them i kept them all. By the time they were 2 yrs old they all had Problems. One developed a heart condition He died 3 yrs ago of a heart attack. The next Melanoma on his lip He had surgery but it had spread to his lungs He died 2 yrs ago & next was a little female I had her to the vet because she wouldn't eat They did testing & exam & said she was fine. 3 hrs later she died? I guess it's genetics. I was hoping Ravan would be an exception & live to be 20. Never even thought of Diabetes. he was raised on a raw meat diet no" treats"
    either. How did he get diabetes??I'm going to do everything i can to help him Maybe he will live to be 20 ? Never know!

    I appreciate the info about CKD., and the encouraging words! :) :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  26. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    @Carol in Chicago
    Hello neighbor. (I'm in Orland Park area. )
    Thank you so much for the info.,especially the "Reference" I copied it and will refer to it often when i read Ravan's Blood work again.
    I've given Ringer sub Q before to other kitties. My Vet admitted to me he's no Expert on Diabetes. He did not feel Ravan needed Sub Q because electrolytes look OK & he is drinking a lot of water.
    Wendy cautioned me about Fluids because it pushed her kitty into Heart failure!
    I do have Tanya's site Bookmarked & will be reading it when I get a chance.
    A few times Ravan's BG dropped to 35 & it scared me . People advised me to lower the dose That it was too much insulin! Since then I've been worried about increasing his dose. Now His BG is way too high & I will increase to 1.5.
    I also thought when they have medical problems it's almost impossible to get the BG to go down lower?
    I'm still learning new things about this every day.
    Have you looked at Ravan's Lab tests? I posted it at the top of this Thread.I'd appreciate any advice or suggestions

    I am so grateful to have found this Forum. It has made this journey so much easier! "Not Easy", but definitely easier.

    Thank You again :):bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  27. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Until the diabetes is under controlled they will urinate more and sometimes inappropriately as well. So, he could be getting a double whammy right now.
     
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  28. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    It was my civvie, Forrest , that saw the internal medicine doc. Bubba is only on insulin right now and a lot of supplements to help with constipation , hairballs, & pancreas support.
     
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  29. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    @Sharon14
    I am so deeply sorry I didn't know your kitty Colin died.I'm sorry I didn't go to your post & keep track of what was going on. I feel selfish that I got so overwhelmed with my own problems I was inconsiderate.
    Please forgive me & Know I'm crying my eyes out for You & for all our Kitties . This is such a difficult journey.
    Your help & advice has made it all a bit easier,not EASY, but definitely easier!

    Three of Ravan's brothers & a sister died in just the last few years. I was still grieving over them when I found out Ravan had Diabetes & now Kidney disease & Pancreatitis!
    It's just not fair that these little Loving beings should suffer! When my time comes I sure Have a LOT of questions I want answered!

    I feel so sad for you. I hope you find comfort & Peace.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  30. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Yes, I did look at the labs. I'm not an expert. I think there is more going on with elevation in a few other areas. It will be good to see what others say.

    If Ravan can satisfy his hydration needs by drinking alone, that would be good, but I would still like to see hydration status monitored closely at home so you can catch it early if there is a problem. I'm a big fan of SQ, but I don't want to push it if he doesn't need. Your vet can evaluate heart condition and tell you how much and how often if needed. Proper hydration is very important for so many things. My Rosie was first prescribed SQ to help with constipation, but is now getting a substantial amount daily because of CKD.

    FD isn't easy, but I feel it is much easier to manage because of the advice and guidance available here and also the fact I can monitor at home. The other problems Rose has are much more difficult for me to manage. In her situation, constipation can spike her BG, so I can monitor it indirectly. CKD, not so much.

    Other medical problems can influence BG, and Tanya's site mentions hydration status can impact response and duration of insulin. Other FDMB members have mentioned impact to BG of any range of infection from teeth to UTI.

    I think Ravan needs more juice to see some better numbers. If you are having trouble with BG going too low, it might be a good idea to get some advice re: diet options to level him out a bit (to get BG lower in general, but not drop too much to a number that scares you).
     
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  31. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Bobbie And Bubba
    I've read about people giving SEB pill to their cat,but I've had good luck emptying a Cap into baby food & adding water to make it more liquid.
    Then a few squirts with a feeding syringe.I give it to all three of my cats a few times a week & so far it works great.

    Ravan isn't urinating in the house. The urine just leaks out while he's sleeping. I just noticed it today. He gets upset & starts grooming right away.

    I appreciate the information :)
    Thank You
     
  32. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    @Carol in Chicago
    I'm increasing his Insulin tonight.
    A lot of the kitties here seem to have a constipation problem. I've been giving SEB but not the pill I empty the cap into a shot glass add 1/2 teas. baby food & add water to make it liquid & Into a feeding syringe .
    I give it to all 3 of my kitties a few times a week So far it works great.

    Thank you for all the information. I appreciate all the advice i'm getting here for Ravan!:)
     
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  33. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    I give Bubba and civvie Forrest 1/4 tsp of seb mixed with 1/2 tsp of George's Aloe Vera Jucie then added to the food and add 2 tbsp. of water , twice a day to help with constipation and to help with other GI issues. I buy it at Amazon is bulk powder form as it is cheaper that way. I really think it helps.
     
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  34. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Just checked Ravan's BG 88 WHat??? Should i still increase dose?? I checked 3 times even with a different meter! I'm so surprised! But in the past he's taken his time before dropping to low #'s.

    I'm not sure now about increasing his dose to 1.5?? If no one replies I'll shoot at 1.25?
     
  35. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

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  36. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
  37. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
  38. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    I've got about 10 mins I'll shoot 1.25 if I don't hear from anyone!
    It doesn't feel right to increase his dose with such a Huge drop.
     
  39. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

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    Apr 5, 2017
    I was pushing for an inrease, but I would stay where you are with an 88. It is totally shotable, but I'm nervous given the very wide range of numbers you are seeing.

    Need experts to review if he is bouncing etc.

    They may ask: How late will you be up? Is he eating well? Do you have plenty of supplies (strips)?
     
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  40. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Mar 22, 2017
    I agree to do 1.25u tonight. Can you monitor?
     
  41. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @ Carol in Chicago
    @Mandy & Rex
    This is surprising. I'll shoot 1.25 and yes I'm up most of the night I'll check at +2 He usually doesn't do anything till +5 But then again Ravan is fond of surprises. Huge drops & Big Ugly Black #'s!!
    If bg goes back to high should I assume it's a bounce & shoot 1.25 in the am? Last time he was on this dose he dropped After 2 weeks to 45 And before On 1.25 big drop to 35 after 2 weeks. He seems to take a long time to adjust to dose increase.

    I sure hope this 88 is because he's feeling better??
     
  42. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Sorry JoyBee my Mac was on charge. Yes I would shoot the 1.25 and check at +2.
     
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  43. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

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    Apr 5, 2017
    He should feel better with better numbers. If you do get some expert review, I hope they can suggest some food options to flatten him out.

    @Bobbie And Bubba - I should have tagged you above.
     
  44. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    Thank you ! Yes I just shot at 1.25. Wish us good luck that this is a good sign! I'll check at +2
    Gonna lay down for an hour.

    Thank you:):bighug:
     
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  45. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    @Carol in Chicago
    @Mandy & Rex
    Thank you all for being there for me! It's been a rough few days & your help tonight really made a difference!

    One day at a time! Tomorrow will be better! :)
     
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  46. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Let's see what he does tonight, before deciding on tomorrow's dose. I do hope those better numbers mean Ravan is feeling better.:bighug:
     
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  47. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    +2 86 He hasn't had food for about 4 hrs. I'll check again at 1:30,+4 67
    This happened before. On 6/10 & again on 6/26 Both times he was on this dose for nearly 2 weeks until he dropped low.That's why I didn't raise his dose I wanted to see if he would go lower if I waited.
    Ravan has his own schedule!

    I'll continue to check tonite.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  48. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    I shouldn't of let myself get Happy just yet! BG 469 at 5:30 am.That High # isn't good for his Kidneys!
     
  49. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    He bounced. He'll come back down again.
     
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