7/12Ravan/amps524/+5 362/+9 140/pmps100/+2 169/+5 254

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by JoyBee&Ravan, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    7/11//Ravan/ pmps 88/+2 86/+4 67/+5.5 148/+8 469

    At +5 he wanted food He ate a spoon of low carb. I don't think that pushed his bg 321 points up?
    Why does he go up so high at the end of the cycle? Both times he did this when he dropped low on this dose?
    Would he be better on Levemir?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    Reason for edit: add
  2. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Below is Ravan's Blood Work. Wonder why his electrolytes are all good? I thought with Kidney disease they would be Low? Who's the " Expert" on Lab results? Maybe they could PLEASE look at Ravan's Tests?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  3. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    Loved them greens last night!!
     
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  4. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Good morning JoyBee!
    Loved seeing those greens last night!
    I've asked Marje to take a look at Ravan's bloodwork.

    Ravan's numbers go up at the end of the cycle because the insulin loses it's strength, likely because he's not getting enough.
    If you look back at Boomer's 2017 ss I had basically the same thing happening that you do; high numbers all the time then a sudden brief drop into green. I was battling glucose toxicity because Boomer hadn't been getting enough insulin so his body got used to higher numbers. Although I loved seeing the greens, all they did basically was mess with my plan to increase his dose:rolleyes:
    If I were you (and others might have different advice, I won't be offended if you tag others to see what they have to say :D), I would increase Ravan's dose every 8 cycles unless he gives you some green or at least some lower blues. Once you break through the glucose toxicity it will be obvious; his numbers will come down and he will start earning reductions quickly! Boomer went from 3 units to 2 units within a month and, being a long term diabetic, he did it either with one number under 40 or 3 numbers (different cycles, same dose) under 50.
     
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  5. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer ? For you, are you saying hold dose for 8 cycles because of the glucose toxicity? Just trying to understand why not change every 6 cycles if no green, I don’t know much about the glucose toxicity, thanks, I’m not doubting you just learning
     
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  6. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    I meant to mention in the above post but forgot.....our electricity is being shut off for a while this morning which means I will lose my internet and this will happen right around Ravan's AMPS.
    It could be 6 cycles! Personally, I find with Boomer that 6 cycles isn't long enough to see what he's going to do on a dose. But of course ECID.
     
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  7. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    Gotcha, thanks, I was just trying to understand the toxicity thing
     
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  8. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    It was one of the most frustrating things I've been through lol! The odd green cycle messed with my mind!
     
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  9. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    BG 67 +4 He did not have any food since pmps He was hungry asking for food & I fed him.

    If I hadn't given food at +4 I'm pretty sure he would have dropped under 50.

    I was ready to increase his dose until I saw the green #'s

    If you look on his SS he dropped very low on this dose 2 times before.

    I was told Levemir lasts longer than Lantus, flatter reading not so many high #'s
    What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  10. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    It's ECID on whether a cat will be flatter on Levemir. It is for many, including Neko, but not all. So, no guarantee, though the odds are good. You won't know until you try it.

    I am glad to see a bit of green on Ravan's SS, but as Judy said, it's not enough. You want to see a lot more green than once in 10 days. It's not certain he would have dropped below 50. If a cat wants a reduction, they'll likely show you the below 50 in spite of food. Was it high carb ormlow carb you fed at +4 last night? It helps to record any extra food and carbs ion the spreadsheet, so you can see the effect of food outside his normal feeding schedule. One more thing, what a cat does one time on a particular dose is not an indicator of what they will do the next time. A cat's insulin needs can change over time.

    As for the blood work, kidney disease does not mean the electrolytes will be off. Neko's weren't for most of her years with kidney disease. Most of Ravan's kidney values ares still pretty good. Cats on a raw food diet can show higher BUN. The SDMA is high, which can be an early indicator of kidney issues.
     
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  11. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    blood sugar can drop sharply overnight. Your body responds by releasing hormones that work against insulin. That means you’ll have too much blood sugar in the morning. It’s also called rebound hyperglycemia.

    In the US, vet students get exactly 5 hours of study on diabetes - that includes both cats and dogs - and based on what one student told me, Somogyi is included in that 5 hours!! :rolleyes: No wonder they seem to know so little.
     
  12. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Wendy&Neko
    Ravan wakes up soaked with urine. He's peeing while he's asleep? This just started yesterday.

    Is this from his high BG? So I need to increase dose to 1.5 tonight?
     
  13. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Sorry to hear he's peeing in his bed. You could increase his dose to try to get rid of the high numbers. Might want to mention the peeing in the bed to the vet. And make sure you wash him well.
     
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  14. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Oh Ravan! :eek::p:(:cat::oops:
     
  15. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    @Wendy&Neko
    I've only shot on a Green # a few times. Never on an increased dose. You're telling me to increase the dose to 1.5 even if I have a GREEN PMPS?

    Is Marle & Gracie still around to look at Ravan's Lab report?

    Wendy,
    I asked the vet if Ravan had any heart problems. He said He's never detected any thing wrong with his heart. I thought if I give him 100 ml of Ringers a day he wouldn't be so thirsty?
    Can I asked how much you were giving Boomer? Did he have a heart problem First?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  16. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Personally, I wouldn't increase the dose if he gives you a green or lower blue PMPS. I'll try to be here around his PMPS time.

    I have never given Boomer sub q fluids but I give my civvie Allen fluids. No he doesn't have a heart problem that we know of. I would not give fluids to Ravan without your vet's ok. He's thirsty because he has two diseases that make him thirsty; FD and CKD. If he was dehydrated during the vet visit your vet would have mentioned it so I would leave it be for now.

    Edited to add: Marje told me she would hopefully have time to look at Ravan's lab results today.
     
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  17. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Chris & China
    You told me that "Lantus doesn't do well with frequent dose changes" I'm being advised to increase Ravan's dose to 1.5 Even if he has a Green #. Last night he went down to 67 I gave him food to bring it up.
    He's at 140 now I think he'll go even lower tonight then yesterday without the increase.Other people feel he needs more insulin to stop the high am #'s I'm confused?
    What is your Opinion?
     
  18. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Sienne and Gabby (GA)
    Ravan has High Am bg. Last night he went down to 67.Now he's 140BG 3 hrs before shot. I've been told to increase dose to get more green?

    What is your opinion?
     
  19. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Not what I said....please read my post above

    Also...Wendy advised a dose increase earlier but that was before he came into blue today. Maybe tag Wendy to ask for advice?
     
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  20. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    Checking in to see the PMPS. I thought it was usually around now but I guess I'm wrong.
    I need to head to bed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  21. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    My computer & House phone went out last night, right before PMPS! No Service at all. It just came back now at 2AM.
    I know you didn't say to increase dose even with green. I was Tired ,confused & still very upset about Ravan having Kidney problems. Wendy wrote he needed more Green & then advised to increase the dose. I was confused . That's why I asked,are you advising I increase dose even if BG is green.
    Did you read what I wrote to Chris & China?
    I apologise for the confusion:(
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    Reason for edit: add
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  22. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    So agree, just a tad bit
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  23. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    May 23, 2014
    I knew that my timing was right and it was Ravan's PMPS time! Was wondering why you weren't posting!
    Happy to see Ravan's lovely PMPS last night. Hopefully he doesn't bounce too high.
     
  24. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Judy and Boomer
    This is where I'm confused. He had blue last nite so even though amps is 500 this dose is bringing BG down to blue & green.
    So I should stay with this dose unless he no longer goes to blue or green Is that correct?
    When I see 500 I'm thinking I should increase,but he still goes down later on this dose. My Brain hurts thinking about this!
     
  25. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Here's where I got confused?
     
  26. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2018
    @Wendy&Neko

     

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