Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by HWright, May 27, 2017.
He is also anemic
Thanks for your update, Gretchen, and please keep us posted. Hope Trinka is feeling a little better today, too. He's a sweetheart that's for sure❤
Also, when Trinka gets fluids at vet today, maybe they will do b12 injection at same time in the fluids line. Worth asking your vet about it today.
We're all rooting for you and Trinka
Thread moved to Health.
The link to this thread has been sent via PM to Gretchen (Trinkasmommy).
Starting fluids twice a week and kd food . At this point we are feeding him whatever he will eat. He devoured half a can last night. Starting to feed him on the floor. He fell off the table last night. Finished can this morning. This pic was taken last night
He finished 2 cans of kd within 24 hours we have fancy feast pate which one is best for kidneys? Phosphorus level was high Saturday as well as creatnine(sp?)
Fancy Feast is high in phosphorus, so not good for kitty with CKD. There are a few low carb/low phosphorus foods (I'll look some up for you and post them) or you can ask your vet for a phosphorus binder to add to the food.
Something comparable to Fancy Feast in price but lower in phosphorus is Sheba pates
The Sheba is better than the Fancy Feast on phos. Also, a few others are,
Iams Grain Free White Meat Chicken Breast
Natures Recipe Grain Free in Broth Chicken
Wellness Complete Health Turkey
There are others, though not many, but the ones above are fairly easy to find, though maybe a bit higher in price than Fancy Feast.
I didn't realize the kidneys were that bad. That's stage 4 kidney failure. The phosphorous is super high too. . I'm afraid her time is limited. You could do daily sub q's at home and add a phosphorous binder just to make her more comfortable.
Going twice a week for fluids and giving him zobaline. Giving him whatever he will eat at this point until he let's us know it's time
What is his bun?
Ask your vet about doing sub q's at home. At these high levels he really could use daily fluids. I was doing 3 x a week when my cat was stage 2.... By stage 4 they need it more often.
Yes definitely feed whatever he wants, but a phosphorous binder will make him feel less icky. You just sprinkle it on food. Aluminum hydroxide
Rx Vitamins For Pets - Phos-Bind 35 gm Powder https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012XDHXM4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2SqtzbPH5X7CT
Getting phospurus binder tomorrow plus going to petsmart for Sheba pate cat food
Good morning, Gretchen.
Glad you are getting the Phos-Bind phosphorus binder powder that April and Janet suggested.
Also glad that Trinka's appetite has been good and that you are introducing/transitioning Trinka's food to Sheba and I hope you'll get some of the foods that Sharon listed to try.
Is today your Saturday appointment with vet for recheck, fluids with B12 and to get a copy of Trinka's labwork results?
Heaps of feel better vines for you Trinka ❤
Waiting for someone from fd Facebook group to come over and help me take Trinkas bg. 1.40 vet apt he is also on zobaline and climbed into bed with us last night and this morning
Getting copy of blood work
Trink is definitely a fighter.
It took her a few tries to get a bleeder but rice sock helped. His bg was good
What was the number?
150 not 190
That's a nice blue number for now. Are you learning how to home test?
294 after liver shake and before insulin. Was able to do it myself but he didn't enjoy it. Have to keep jackpot freeze dried treats handy for next time. Did give him treats while rubbing his ears
Thanks for your update and great news, Gretchen! You and Trinka have had a busy and banner day, starting with Michelle's wonderful visit and one-on-one for hometesting, Trinka's 150 am bg, vet visit this afternoon for fluids, succeeding with Trinka's pm bg test and it being 294, starting the phos binder in Trinka's supper and.....raw liver shake! The liver shake, and I learned about it here in fdmb thanks to a member who shared it, has helped my kitties and many others through all sorts of rough spots. So I'm glad you decided to give it a try and that Trinka loves it ❤❤.
Yay Gretchen, yay Trinka, yay your vet and staff and yay ..... team Trinka!!!!
Hang in there and may all have a good night's sleep with sweet dreams. Keep us posted!
Tried twice. The first time didn't push test strip in soon enough so got used test strip error. The second time didn't get enough blood. Will try again tonight
Good morning Gretchen. Glad you're in testing groove. It'll be easier each time. Was Trinka a little more obliging about being tested this morning?
How does he feel this morning and how his appetite?
Been there, done that- many times! I found in the beginning the first test in the AM was the hardest, I guess because I'm still asleep and my cat is hungry. Why don't you try a test in a few hours. The more practice, the easier it will become.
Same here. Mornings can be a little more problematic when sleepy, trying to test, feed, shoot insulin and get everything else done and get to work on time.
I used to get frustrated when I had to prick Sootie's ear multiple times to get a sample. Someone in fdmb said that after three pricks and if she or her cat began to feel stressed about, she stopped, gave them both a break and retried soon as the tension lifted. It worked.
Also, I'm wondering if a dab of "neosporin with pain relief" on Trinka's ear might help. I remembering reading some discussion in fdmb about using neosporin and that, if I'm remembering correctly, included suggestions about an alternative. I'll look for that info. Does anyone remember that or tried neosporin with pain relief or other stuff on ears?
Edited to add: found the neosporin discussion thread I was thinking of:
Me and hubby tested bg at 7 he ate around 4 didn't get insulin yet. It was high but meter didn't give number
I'm wondering: is there is something about the everpet meter that doesn't register if too much or not quite enough blood to test?
If it just says high then it's above the maximum the meter reads.... Like over 600.
How was he when you tested tonight?
Eyes? behavior? Gait, walking?
What time did he eat supper?
What time did you test?
What time did you do pm novolin dose and what dosage?
Trying to ascertain if true HI (+600 on pet meter) with or without symptoms or if possible test strip error.
Just tested it it's 399
278 before breakfast
Will get error message if not enough blood
Just saw over on the FB page that you thought you had the meter setting set for dog rather than cat. Please makes sure that you have the correct setting or the readings will not be accurate. Dog's blood is a different consistency than kitties blood. If the correct species is not chosen for the setting it would be similar to a person using a pet meter to take their glucose readings..the readings would be off.
Sending lots of positive energy for Trinka and you.
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c58584/1490030903784/EverPaw Meter Manual.pdf
. Coding the meter IMPORTANT!!! Always confirm/set the Code when you open a new vial of test strips, verify the code number on the meter matches the code number printed on the strip vial. 1. Find the code number on the strip vial.(e.g. code: do1 or C01) 2.You may adjust code number after inserting a test strip. When you insert a strip, choose the code by pressing C or M to switch from d01~d03 to C01~C03. Adjust code number with the test strip inserted in meter: Insert a test strip, the meter will turn on automatically and display the last code number saved. If the code number on the screen matches the code number printed on the vial label, proceed with the test. If the code number doesn't match, adjust the code number up by pressing C key or down by pressing M key. The meter will save your code setting after 2 seconds once you stop pressing the C or M key. If you miss this step, reinsert the test strip to repeat the coding procedure. 3. Make sure that the code number on the meter matches the code number printed on the strip vial. Failure to code the meter correctly will cause inaccurate test results.
Just realized you can change to cat when you insert test strip
Bg was 278 between 4 and 5 am before breakfast. Hubby fed him between 4 and 5 pm I took his bg at 6 pm it was 288 before insulin. I did it myself!!!!! yeah!!!!
299 this morning before insulin and shake. Is there a shake for dogs? Our lhasapoo is 17 and has a heart murmur. Coughing after eating, going outside, or even we carry her
well done! The BG, while above normal, is't astronomical. Trink's real issues right now are the anemia and kidney's. Have you started the phosphorous binder? That should start helping her feel better faster.
Good morning Gretchen and super about you and Trinka getting in the home testing groove. Hope it's getting to be easier each time.
IDK if there is a liver shake specifically for dogs with different ingredients but the liver shake for cats ingredients are dog-friendly, provided fed in small quantities same as for cats.
Because of your dog's symptoms, I'd ask your vet about it.
My GA cat Bo had renal problems and grade 3/4 heart murmur; he did fine with the liver shake as a supplement with regular meals.
Keep up the good work!
I think so. Gretchen, please confirm how you're using the Phos-Bind. I think you mentioned that you'd started it with each meal but I'm losing track. You can add the binder to Trinka's liver shake portion (not while you're making a new batch) too. But as with food, you need to be sure that the others aren't getting into his food and liver shake portions that have the phos binder in it.
Yes have been adding it to his portion. Vet apt today for fluids with b12
Was 6.9 on 21st now 6.14!!!!! Go team Trinka!!!!
Bg was highest I tested. Was 368 before insulin
I'm guessing this is his weight. If so, that's great!
6 lbs 9 oz on 21st 6 lbs 14 oz today!!!!
That's great. I bet she's feeling better too.
That's still an improvement from 400.
Gretchen, How do you feel about starting a "spreadsheet" where you can track test times, test numbers, food intake and times?
Great that will help a lot. Here are the instructions to set it up
If you need help (like I did) please ask and we'll get someone to do it for you.
After 3 tries finally got enough blood to test. 485. Time for well deserved liver shake
Good morning Gretchen. Glad to see that you're making steady progress with home testing and that the rythym is becoming easier for you and Trinka. ❤
Glad too, about getting started with spreadsheet (sometimes known as SS)!
Like Sharon, I needed help getting the spreadsheet set up, too. There are folks here who are whiz bang with technology, too! So just give a shout out!
Wasn't walking on front paw ate some food with phos bind and zobaline in it. Finished one portion Sheba and 1/3 can fancy feast all except for I teaspoon. Bg was 380 at 5.30 gave 2 1/2 units insulin . Tested at 7.00 was 409 before he finished eating
I'm glad you posted here, gretchen . Am Concerned too. How does he seem to you right now while he's resting? I'm glad you got a +1.5 test in (1.5 hrs after pm insulin) and you're keeping an eye on him and will retest ca 8:30/9pm if not sooner if you can.
Others following here: suggestions please?
@Sharon14 @MrWorfMen's Mom @Yong @manxcat419 (if you're online accessible)?
Glad he ate some. Front paw could be the neuropathy, or maybe he injured it somehow? How is he doing otherwise?
Gretchen, can you upload a picture of the meter you are using please. I want to see if it might be the same as one I tested out but here in Canada, it was under a different brand name. If it's the same as the one I tested out, I may be able to give you a few tips to ensure getting a reading.
The BG readings of 380 and 409 are basically the same given allowable meter variance. I assume Trinka ate when you gave the 2.5u of insulin and then again at +1.5 post shot? I don't find the readings concerning other than they are high.
Was 405 just now
If he started favouring paw recently, perhaps he injured it as Sharon stated or something stuck in it?
He ate at first 2 readings, not just now except for yummy chicken breast treat
Now he is walking on paw
I shared Gretchen's concern when Trinka's bg started back in the 400's after a day or so in the high 200's and she was concerned that he wasn't eating and his front paw and demeanor was as you see in the photo. Thankfully he's eaten more, moved around a bit, used LB to pee and is resting now.
I can't account for why his bg began to resume in the 400's again. Could these be bounces from low midcycle numbers which might be helped by mini meals during mid cycle? Maybe beginnings of constipation if that's a possible side effect of the phos binder? Other?
Once your spreadsheet is set up, Gretchen, and when you can do some mid cycle tests, it'll help a lot to see how he responds to the novalin inbetween shots and with food. One step at a time, you're doing great.
Trinka and Gretchen: you both were great about doing retests tonight and looking after each other. I hope the rest of the night will be smooth sailing for you both.
Glad he's walking better now. Gretchen, if you are willing to have a short conversation with me, I have made a Spreadsheet for you and back logged as much data as I could figure out from previous postings. Added a couple custom columns as well. All you would have to do from here on out, is fill it in accordingly . Just let me know if you are interested. I won't be back on until tomorrow evening, but you can just post here that you want it and I will send you a PM (private message)
Sorry for the delay getting back. Had to take a friend to the airport.
I really wonder if the dose of insulin is too high but without more testing data it's hard to judge. I noticed in an earlier post, the dose was 2u and now you've indicated you gave 2.5u. I am curious just when Trinka was diagnosed, what the starting dose of insulin was and how often the dose was raised and by how much. That may have been covered in earlier posts. I'll see if I can find this info but a refresher would be helpful. If Trinka is continually sitting in high numbers because of bouncing, that alone could be making her feel very poorly.
As for the Ever Paw meter, it is indeed the same one I tested but here it is under the Fast Care brand. I found the readings were within a reasonable range of the AT2 pet meter although it read a bit lower at high numbers and a bit higher at low numbers. There were also a couple of pesky issues with the meter.
1. The meter takes a lot of blood compared to many other meters which will make testing more difficult for both you and Trinka. My recommendation would be to get a Relion human meter (Confirm or Micro) from Walmart as they take a tiny drop of blood and will make testing much easier. Even as a seasoned tester with a cat whose ears bleed extremely well, I wasted a number of strips due to the blood bead size required.
2. The meter will turn on and read even if the strip is NOT seated properly in the meter. Make sure the strip is very firmly pushed into the meter and sometimes it seemed difficult to get the strip to seat properly.
Glad to hear she is walking on her paw again!
447 at 1.30 am
399 getting ready to give liver shake with phos bind and renakare plus 2.5 units insulin
Finished most of it will offer again at 7 and leave food out for hubby to feed around 1
Trinka seems to be having a pretty flat cycle and that again suggests that the dose of insulin may be too high. I strongly encourage you to take Yong up on her offer to get the spreadsheet going (see message # 170 above) so we can see the data you're collecting in a way that will show us the pattern of BG readings in relation to the dose given. That really is the only way we can offer more specific and relevant suggestions to help you help your extra sweet Trinka.
Was 434 at 7 pm had one Sheba portion with phos bind , zobaline, and insulin. Testing again now
It reads high on relion meter
@Sharon14 @MrWorfMen's Mom @Yong ???
ETA: gretchen, til Sharon, Linda or Yong get here, try a retest in case it's a fluke. Also the instruction manual will state the read range and what HI and LO indicate outside the test read range.
Finishing another Sheba portion
I admit this is just a guess, but I am going to suggest you back the dose off to 2u tonight and see if that starts bringing the numbers down. The Relion meter being a human meter will not read as high as the pet meter and that would explain the HI reading. I still think part of the problem may be too much rather than too little insulin. I'd recommend taking another reading in about 2 to 3 hours post shot to see how much and how fast Trinka is dropping.
Thinking it's a fluke. First I've heard of a human meter reading higher than pet meter. Did you retest with ReliOn?
The 7pm test and I think the 9:30 was relion, gretchen started with it tonight. The am preshot was with everpaw.
Gretchen. Am I remembering this correctly? What's the retest number and with which meter?
468 on everpaw meter. He just finished one portion of Sheba
Had 2 portions since 7 pm when he got insulin. Finished second one at 9.30 read high on relion meter and 468 on everpaw. Will test again when hubby gets up at 1 am
Ok Gretchen thank you.
Please update here at 1am test.
If you can reply to the message in conversation section that I sent you so that Yong can finish the spreadsheet setup she's done and what needs to be done to complete the access for you that'd be great.
Also Linda (mR worfmans mom) has some insight and suggestions to consider and talk about re Trinka's current dose. Hope you can re-read and reply/ask questions to these tonight or when it's quiet in the wee hours.
Glad Trinka is eating hearty and being an extremely good sport about home testing!
539 on relion meter at 2.45. Had one portion Sheba plus few spoonfulls liver shake with binder and renakare. Retested at 3.30 am on everpaw meter was 436
Would not eat liver shake without sheba and water
Good morning Gretchen, thanks for posting Trinka's early morning test and food info. How are you both now and what's his morning t/f/s (test/feed/shoot insulin)?
Gretchen, please check your Inbox with the conversation with Sina and myself. No offense, but I'm not going to continue to update your SS I prepared. I've kept it updated as possible based on your posts to be helpful and ready for you to take it over but my boy needs my attention.
please check your inbox here in fdmb for the private message. Please do this today.
All Yong needs is a little information from you to get your spreadsheet up and running for you to use and others here to refer to and help with Trinka.
Here's a screen shot of the top of the fdmb screen. You click on the tab with the 3 horizontal lines (I did that for the screenshot) and then click on "conversations (pm)" ❤
First: Trinka's spreadsheet is almost a good-to-go. Yong and Gretchen almost there, hoping that SS will be up and running by tomorrow
Second: Gretchen and I were in touch during earlier part of the day and again tonight.
Here are today's t/f/s (gretchen please correct me if I missed something, ok?) with some questions to follow:
6/30/17 (r for relion meter, e for everpaw meter)
2:45am 539 r
3:30am 436 e
2:45am Sheba & liver shake
8:50 am+- food (approx +6 from an fur shot)
Food available 4-9:40pm while out
3:30 am fur shot/partial shot -2.5u
9:40pm late shot (usually ca 4pm) 2.5u
Ok here are immediate question(s) for help:
Pm shot was approx +5 after usual 12-hr shoot cycle that is ca 4am and ca 4pm. What should gretchen do tomorrow about insulin shoot times and dosage amount bc tomorrow morning's regular shoot time would be 4am but with tonight's dosage and shoot time, the dose would be at about +7 hours into the pm dose cycle?
Also what dosage amount would be most appropriate tomorrow to avoid insulin overload/hypo?
Also, gretchen is bringing Trinka to vet tomorrow (1pm) for fluids and weekly b12. My question is and because it's been two weeks since Trinka's CBC. Is it about time to either do a CBC or specific tests to recheck kidney function, anemia, phos and potassium levels (Trinka on phos binder for high phos and potassium for low potassium?
I know it's the beginning of holiday weekend (btw: happy 4th July...where's a fireworks emoji ) but your input for gretchen and Trinka asap is much appreciated.
@Yong @MrWorfMen's Mom @Sharon14 ?
I'd typically say to skip but I don't think that would be good for Trinka. Sometimes it seems the insulin works for most of the 12 hours but it's hard to tell. Sorry I'm not much help here.
Spreadsheet was just updated with provided information . Gretchen has been given ownership of the Spreadsheet. Hopefully, she will use it. I do not plan on updating it further, no offense.
He is just waiting for food commercials
Thank you Yong
Gretchen, Yong's privided the link to your spreadsheet. Here's a screenshot of where you go to add it to your profile page "signature." This makes it possible for folks to view Trinka's spreadsheet.
To add data, you access your spreadsheet via google sheets or by clicking on the link in your signature (you are the only one who has editing rights in your profile page and the google spreadsheets). It'd be great if you can add the link tonight.
When you open your profile page, clicj on signature and paste the link that Yong highlighted in bold as "Trinka's Spreadsheet". Then save the signature section and it should be there.
Also, I hope we'll get some input about dosing recommendations for tomorrow. So, hold tight!!
I changed the title to this thread tonight to reflect tonight's questions about tomorrow's dosing.
The quickest and safest way to get back on schedule, prevent potential hypo and keep this simple would be to move morning shot ahead and have an extended cycle from Friday PM to Saturday AM shot and another extended cycle between the Saturday AM and Sunday AM shots.
Normal Shot time is 4am/pm
Shot given Friday roughly 3:30am/9:40pm
Suggested Saturday/Sunday Shot Times to get back on schedule
Saturday AM - give shot that would have been due at 09:40 am at Noon making Friday night cycle roughly 14.25 hours long.
Mark Saturday PM shot as skipped on SS
Sunday AM - give shot that would have been due around MN Saturday at 4am Sunday making cycle 16 hours between shots)
Sunday PM- give shot at regular 4PM time.
This way, while technically skipping a shot, the amount of time without insulin coverage is reduced for 2 cycles rather than missing an entire 12 hours of coverage. Dose wise I'd suggest lowering the dose to 2u to see if that flattens out the cycles a bit.
I think it would be advisable to do a CBC, and check potassium. I'm not sure if kidney values need to be checked again although with Trinka still not feeling well, it certainly wouldn't hurt.
Happy Canada Day and Fourth of July!
Was 158 just now. His pet bed was wet don't know if his sister peed in it or him
Gretchen, is that 158 at +6 hours after the insulin was given?
@Trinkasmommy : Gretchen, you here? Glad you got the 3:30an test in and posted.
Sorry about the pee. Any idea who?
Have you read @MrWorfMen's Mom 's suggestion above about shoot schedule for today and tomorrow with reduced dose to get Trinka back on schedule after last night's late shot?
Separate names with a comma.