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8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +5 49 +6 126 +7 131

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by charliesmom, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Yesterday

    Spoke to our vet finally today and she analyzed Charlie's spreadsheet. She believes that in hindsight, we should've given her a higher dose sooner rather than starting her at .5 units of lantus. She advised us to increase Charlie's dose significantly from 1.25 to 2 units.

    We did so and now are quite scared as her +4 and +4.5 are already quite low.
    Should we do anything preventatively to avoid a hypo tonight? Ot is it best to wait and test in 1 hour to see if she goes lower and thus at that time know that this dose is too high?

    Please help. Know that advice from the board was to increase to 1.5 units but we followed the vet's advice. She thought a step change was needed. Now I'm scared that step was maybe too big and that we might be up all night.

    Please help.
    Jill
     
  2. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Re: 8/28 Charlie AMPS 378 +4 355 + 7 360 PMPS 313 +5 67 help

    With that fast a drop I'd test at least every half hour. Right now I'd give a little extra LC food and test again in 20 minutes to see if the drop has stopped or at even gon up a little. You are close to nadir so that helps. Do you have MC and HC food on hand? Syrup?

    This is just why we only adjust doses in .25u increments, we play it safe. Yo also can make sure you don't miss the best dose that way. Too many vets ar unfamiliar w/ the way Lantus carries over and want to treat it like the old fast actin insulins.
     
  3. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63

    To be clear, the 67 number came at +4. Tested again 30 mins later and it's at 63.
    I made a mistake when I wrote that this figure came in at +5. Not at +5 yet for another 30 minutes so it's even sooner than the theoretical nadir, which Charlie has rarely ever personally experienced.

    I've always been told that the increased dose wouldn't play itself out until at least the next cycle. If it starts having this much of an impact within the first 4 hours, is that the sign of a rocky road ahead?

    We have LC food and 1 can of HC hills critical care canned food on hand. We also have hills dry diabetic care food (HC) on hand and maple syrup if needed. Plenty of test strips. We're both just exhausted as we haven't slept much lately so all the help and coaching we can get through this tonight will be appreciated in case it doesn't slow down.

    Earlier today I thought about increasing only to 1.5
    The vet thought that perhaps since we've seen only red and pink numbers over the past weeks, that the doses (even when increased) were having less of an effect and thus we should give her a kick start. She referenced 2 cats she worked with whose owners had accidentally given their cats twice the dose (4 units instead of the 2 they needed) and when they called her to tell her about it after this had happened, she noticed that the regulation and dose reductions came much quicker. So she recommended we try the "kick start" process and we did so. I only spoke to her at 7pm and we had to give the shot at 7pm, so I didn't have any time after work to bounce this idea off the board and we had an appointment at 8.

    Thinking that the dose wouldn't have an impact until the next cycle, I thought there was no risk in being away for 2 hours. Thank God nothing happened to my little Charlie.

    Still heading down. What shall we do guys?
     
  4. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 PLEASE HELP

    How long has it been since last test?
     
  5. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 PLEASE HELP

    15 mins
     
  6. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 PLEASE HELP

    I do think you are probably going to be doing this for a while. I'm watching hard for one of our most experienced folks to jump online.
     
  7. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 PLEASE HELP

    don't go w/ the dry, dry food takes too long to kick in and then even longer to clear her system. If she keeps dropping at the next test I'd add a drop or two of the syrup to just a little more LC.

    Dose increases CAN take a cycle or severl to take effect. That doesn't mean they always do and the shed is not absolutely consistent int ht amount it releases either. Right now you just need to monitor and feed until you see several rising numbers that haven't been nudged up by food.
     
  8. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    She is acting real good. Quite alert, up and about, etc.

    DROPPING. Gave 3 milliliters of maple syrup with a syringe as she doesn't like maple syrup. So if we put it on her food she will not eat it.
     
  9. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    I'd test sooner.


    oh good. i see anne is back...
     
  10. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    Just a few drops is all that is needed!
     
  11. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    post a new reply.

    wasn't expecting you to edit your last reply.... i think it's faster.
     
  12. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    ECID is different, w/ Tess 2 drops of honey will bring her up about 20 points for about 2 hours. If she starts to drop again then repeat, this will keep her from going too low without bouncing through the roof.
     
  13. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    oops. sorry guys. our wireless just went out (murphy's law) and with the rushing to give syrup + post I guess I didn't see your replies and posted up above.

    We gave 3 milliliters of maple syrup with a syringe as she doesn't like maple syrup. So if we put it on her food she will not eat it. At +5 she was at 49. That was ten mins ago. Should we test again in 5 mins or wait a bit?
     
  14. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    Assume this means our morning shot is lower. Agree to move down again? To 1.75 or 1.5? Or, does it depend on the next test results and how the next hours go.
    Boy do I wish I could drink coffee right now.
     
  15. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    :coffee: :coffee:


    I can't answer your dose question.
     
  16. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    Food usually takes about 20 minutes to star showing in BG, so use that as you guide. I don't usually give dose advice, but that 49 earns a decrease anyway. IMHO I's go back to the 1.5 that others advised. It's a lot less stressful to take it in steps than to deal w/ what you are going through.

    It could be the maple flavor. We use honey and Tess doesn't notice it. I think it is also a slightly lower glycemic index than syrup too, so not as much of a kick up.
     
  17. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63

    63 at +5.5

    THANK YOU maple syrup.
     
  18. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 PLEASE HELP

    Keep testing, you can wait half an hour if it is still up go for an hour. At that point the syrup may start to be wearing off.
     
  19. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    I just checked, 1AM there! Can you set an alarm so you can nap?
     
  20. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    Will do. Just saw her eating. Now she's behind the couch with her tail flapping a bit restlessly. Slightly out of character so I need to keep an eye on this. It's 1am now. Will test at 1:20am (+6)

    THANK YOU GUYS for being here at this time.
     
  21. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    breathe!

    What time is it there? If you're very tired, then we can try to abort this cycle. By that I mean go ahead and feed her high carb food to try to bump the numbers up quite a bit, hoping that you can sleep sooner. Yes, the syrup and food can wear off but if you get her high enough that you'll have some extra room if she drops when the syrup wears off. I've had to do that before.
     
  22. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    You're doing great. You've bought the numbers into a very safe range. That doesn't mean the roller coaster ride is over but you've got some room to breathe easy. Think about Libby's suggestion. You can short circuit the cycle if you need to or you can continue to test and feed. We're here if you need us. It's early evening for most of us so we're here to help.
     
  23. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    Thank you for the support and encouragement, my friends. Rather than abort completely I will try to keep going for a bit and see how it goes.
    This is a way to gather information and I want to be sure she's in the safe zone until I can sleep peacefully. Will post an update shortly after testing in 10 mins or so. If I can get a few cycles in a row trending upwards, you can tell me when I can sleep (or if I really get desperate I will indicate when it's time to abort). Already sort of there but let's take this step by step and I can do mini cat naps (no pun intended) if needed.
     
  24. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    puns are good. keeps your brain awake .... enough.... @-)
     
  25. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    In answer to your question about when it's safe to go to sleep:

    The idea is that you want to make sure the numbers have stabilized without benefit of the HC to prop them up.
     
  26. Alexa and Reuben

    Alexa and Reuben Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 HELP

    Hi Jill,

    We are sending you many hugs ((JILL&CHARLIE))... You are in good hands, you are doing great, hang in there!! :YMHUG:

    Alexa
    (Zar)
     
  27. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    +6 at 126. Now she's out laying on the arm of the couch here next to me. Seems to be doing OK at the moment. Just drank my water again!
     

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  28. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    whew!

    This *could* be her bounce starting. I'd like to see another test in an hour, if you can set an alarm. Otherwise, you could try 1/2 hour and if she is quite a bit higher, assume the bounce has started, feed, and go to bed.
     
  29. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    That was my thought EXACTLY when I saw the jump up. I will test at +6.5 and report back.

    In the meantime, as the effect of today's dose may continue to effect things into tomorrow, I"m definitely going to decrease. The question is, as there was no "last good dose" to decrease to, should I decrease to 1.5? Or if the AMPS comes out low, shoot less than 1.5?
     
  30. Leslie and Jasper

    Leslie and Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Jul 19, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    Hi Jill, Sending you loads of positive energy to help you and Charlie through this. You are doing great checking her and when she is still up after the syrup effect has passed you will both be able to get some rest. Next update, suggest you put the last dose in your spreadsheet so the wise ones helping you have all the numbers in one place.
     
  31. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    No dosing advice from me. Just wanted to say you're doing a great job. You and Charlie will be fine.
     
  32. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Feb 14, 2011
    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    Excellent work...and what a CUTE picture!!
     
  33. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    8/28CharliePM313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126 +6.5 119

    seriously heavy eye lids.
    2am shot came to 119. Slight dip down again.
     
  34. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: 8/28 Charlie PMPS 313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126

    it's pretty much a surf, but she could still wobble downward. You could feed a good sized portion of high carb food and test in 30. That might give you enough wiggle room to get some rest.
     
  35. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Jun 27, 2012
    +7 is 131.

    Food is out (LC) and due to all the tuna snacks, Charlie is not in the mood to eat any of it, so unless I HAVE to open the HC can (which Charlie will not eat), I prefer not to. The HC that we have must be force fed and I don't want to wake my partner to do that if not necessary. Should I test again in 30 mins or 1 hour? I will nap and set my alarm.
     
  36. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: 8/28CharliePM313 +4 67 +4.5 63 +5 49 +5.5 63 +6 126 +6.5

    Depending on where Charlie's numbers are at AMPS, I would go back to what Libby recommended last night -- 1.5u. That's providing Charlie's numbers aren't low. If Charlie throws you a lower than expected number, you may want to shoot a reduced dose. If it's really clear in the next hour that Charlie is bouncing, then you'll know what to do. If it's not clear, I'd try to get a +11 or a +11.5 and post. Dyana may be on-line when you post. If not, remember to link this condo and ask Jane to read through today's condo and to lend you a hand figuring out the BCS dose.
     
  37. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    Thank you for the advice and reminders Sienne.

    The tail flapping continues, but she's no longer hiding behind the couch. She's out in the open hanging out with me. Cute.
     

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  38. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    What, in your opinion, is high enough to shoot 1.5 tomorrow morning?

    Also, what is a BCS dose?
     
  39. Lisa & Leo

    Lisa & Leo Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Charlie is adorable! Great pictures. Sending you hugs...
     
  40. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Charlie is very cute :D , and reminds me a lot of another FD cat we know out that way, name Carmelita.

    Hope you get a bit of some good sleep real soon. [​IMG]
     
  41. Anne & Zener GA

    Anne & Zener GA Well-Known Member

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    Charlie is adorable! :D Great job with steering this cycle. Kudos to you!
    Liz
     
  42. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Charlie is looking good, I stepped out because the cavalry had arrived. :D :D I hope they come back w/ a a BCS (Big Chicken Sh** Shot) number for you. What i would look for is that from the +11 to preshot there is a definite rise.

    Verrrrrry cute pix! Did you get her into the annual calendar?
     
  43. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Jill

    Liby, Dyana, and Sienne will be asleep when you come back on so I'm going to step in and be here for you since I'm on west coast time in the US and will be up for your shot time. We've discussed dose for the a.m.

    If you wake up before +11, could you please get a spot check and then a +11 number would be great, if possible, so we can plan for the a.m. Shot. I'll be looking for tests, ok? Just post if you get up and do a spot check and also with the +11 test.
     
  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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  45. charliesmom

    charliesmom Member

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    See new thread.
     
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