8/5 KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

KT's AMPS is 136 - what do I shoot when it's this wonderful? No food yet...

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

Looking at your spreadsheet -- you've only been treating for 10 days and you already are up to 3 units of Humulin N?

That is way too fast and way too much.

The 54 that you got on 7/30 after a dose of 2 units -- STOP THERE!!! you don't want your kitty to go below 50, so I have no idea why you increased the dose.

Too much insulin can CAUSE higher blood sugar by a process called REBOUND -- the kitty's liver dumps Extra Sugar to soak up the overdose of insulin.

The liver can only do this so long before it crashes and you have HYPO -- a serious low blood sugar condition that can cause seizures, blindness, coma and death.

PLEASE -- start over at 1 unit twice per day. Many cats don't even need 1 unit -- my diabetic Tiggy only needs 0.5u twice per day.

If you are changing diet to low carb canned food (grain free), your kitty might become diet controlled and not need insulin. Many cats only need insulin for a few weeks with a diet change and a chance to allow their pancreas to rest and heal.

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

Shoot absolutely NOTHING unless he goes over 200, and at that point, maybe only 0.5 unless he's skyrocketed. You are in a 'grey' zone where only trial and error will tell you what is right, but you have to manage risks. Would be really interesting to know what happene overnight! Try and get a test in 30mins, etc. to see how soon he goes back up.

SOOOO glad you are testing!

Phoebe, please look at previous thread

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

I would WAIT and test after an hour or two. If blood sugar is up to 200 or over, it is then OK to inject -- but REDUCE YOUR DOSE!!!! 3u is TOO MUCH.

If you can't wait and have to go to work --- then skip the shot this morning. Expect that your kitty will be higher this evening, but DON"T SHOOT EXTRA!!! That is the way to end up in the Emergency Room from overdose. I would highly recommend starting over at 1 unit BID. It is better to be SAFE than SORRY!

Depending how late the morning shot is -- you might need to delay the evening shot also. When you have more experience under your belt and have done a "curve" -- testing blood sugar every two hours for a 12 hour cycle --- you will have a better idea if it is safe to inject early or not. (always test BG before injecting)

The ideal is to find the dose where your kitty is in reasonable blood sugar most of the day/night and you can give the same dose morning and night.

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

Ok - I've read your other thread now -- sorry I didn't read it first.

I have used Humulin N for about 18 months in 2006-2007 with my first diabetic cat Norton.

Humulin N acts pretty fast and is _usually_ all used up within 8 to 10 hours. In 2006, it was the only insulin that my vet would prescribe.

She is now on board with prescribing Lantus and has allowed me to use Levemir with Tiggy, my current diabetic (adopted here after my first diabetic passed away from cancer).

The vet who developed the dry food formula many years ago, Dr. Hodgkins, is still in practice, and she no longer recommends this food. She recommends low carb canned food. However, the pet food company still produces and sells it.

I would suggest starting over at 1u BID unless your kitty is Ketone-prone -- which if you are testing urine every day -- you'll see it right away.

I would suggest holding a dose for at least 4 days to let your kitty get used to it unless you see BGs going low at +4, +5 after the shot.

It would be good to get a curve sometime when you'll be home all day.

With the curve, you'll see how your kitty is using the insulin during the day --- blood sugar goes up after eating and goes down after exercise and when the insulin is "kicking in". Blood sugar can go up from stress and infection or injury or bad teeth.

IF you find that the insulin is all used up in 8 or 9 hours (from the curve result), it might be reasonable to give injections every 8 hours or "TID" at a reduced dose. (if your kitty needs 1.5u BID, then changing to TID, you would start at 1u TID so total per day is the same)

Always give food before giving a shot -- with Humulin N, kitty needs to have food in tummy when the insulin is given (a few spoons is enough ~half a can of FF or so). If your kitty is sick, won't eat or pukes right after eating --- DON"T GIVE THE SHOT -- consult here or call your vet.

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

I wold shoot at the most 1/2 unit. As I comment on yesterday, I consider 3 units BID too high based on the BG values in your SS.

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

No outside work - my job is caregiver for DH with hypokalemic periodic paralysis.

Jen - wish I knew what happened overnight too. The only difference I know of was the dosage increase I did (won't do it again..promise).

I had a 'brain fart' when it comes to the spreadsheet. I have been testing before each PM shot but I was putting it in the (hrs+) column from AM rather than the PMPS column. I've moved them to 'PMPS' column so it will reflect properly.

10:30am - second BG - number was 212. Shot .75u-ish at 10:30am (tried for .5 line but I think it was a little over). He has eaten half can FFeast pate something plus about 6 hard treats.

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

Ok, then if you can get some early tests in to see how KT responds, that would be super. There are a few things you need to find out is what his numbers are preshot, how soon the insulin kicks in, how low it take him, when it starts wearing off and when he's back at preshot levels.

Make sure he always has food in his system before eating, and make sure you read the Humulin N 101 that was linked to you in your other thread

Jen

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

before Injecting insulin

 

Re: KT - AMPS 136 - what do I shoot? Humulin N

Duh ohmygod_smile

Thanks Phoebe!

 

KT's BG at 2pm (+3.5). Was not able to do a 2 hour as DH had paralysis attack...did it as quickly as I could get HIM back on his feet.

 

flatter than I'd expect but it will be interesting to see how things settle out.

if you have to postpone a shot in the future, there should be a way to show that in your spreadsheet to reflect that you took an AMPS, waited, and then shot on a higher AMPS...make sense?

Hope your hubby is ok

Jen

 

Yes Jen, makes perfect sense - I'm having trouble figuring out how to reflect those things. I hate adding a 'time' to each. I wonder if the software will let me add 'cell notes' like excel? Hummm......

EDIT TO ADD: I CAN add comments to cells - they show up as red triangles in top corner and show when hovered! THAT will let me make more sense of it!!!

 

4:15pm (+5.75), BG is 267. I did see him sneak the last 2 hard kibble bits left in the bowl of his brothers....that's all he got tho'...

Does the spreadsheet make a little more sense now?

 

Dear Lyresa, and, of course, you too, sweet KT,

Yes, his spreadsheet makes more than a little more sense now. Loved it that you added those Excel arrows for notes! Please post on the Tech Forum here as to how you figured that out.

Giz was on increasing doses of N for months. I stopped short of going to 5 units BID before taking insulin matters into my own hands. It was easier to do back then...

N is tricky. It can drop a sugar cat like a bomb and then shoot back up like a rocket. I'm not seeing that in KT's spreadsheet, well, the part I can see. And, definitely not today.

I need to go find and read your other post before saying more...

Just wanted to welcome you to the place you never wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found. I know I was...

Love and encouraging hugs for you, your husband, and KT,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who not only taught me about diabetes, she taught me about dancing and embracing each and every single day...

 

KT's poor ears - DON'T use the cream neosporin on them when you need to test later. Just makes the blood soak into the hair.

Another test at 7pm - was 419. Shot about .75u at 7:00. That WAS the right thing wasn't it?

Deb,
It sure makes it easier for me too. It's just 'insert comment' when the cell is selected. Programmed in excel for years in one of my former lives.

 

Yes - that was the right thing to do. This is a long cross country run -- not a 100 yard dash.

If and when you're ready to try it, we can somehow arrange to get you a sample cartridge of Lantus or Levemir.

I ended up buying Levemir without my vet's knowledge and started Tiggy on it. I bought it before Canada required a prescription from U.S. mail order customers (a loophole in British Columbia that has since been closed).

After several months and detailed spreadsheet records - I showed my vet. She had also since had a new client join who was already using Lantus --- so she finally read the publications and studies done on Lantus. She wrote me a prescription for Levemir.

So -- there may be hope for your vet. Print out the sticky post for "Converting Your Vet" and take it in on your next visit.

P.S. The ointment with pain reliever is better than the cream -- it helps the blood bead up instead of soaking in, and the pain reliever numbs slightly to reduce irritation.