~~9/13 Harley - still a trace

Not a bad night. He was not up crying for food until +9. This usually happens about +6.

PMPS 294
+3 306
+5 282
AMPS 298

Have a good Monday

Pattie
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24749

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley AMPS 298

I don't know if these are signs of improvement but....Harley is sleeping better - not constantly up every time I am and he seems to have more energy. Last week he caught a chipmunk - wow, did he ever move, and today, he was chasing squirrels.

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley AMPS 298

This is a wonderful report for Harley today Pattie! :mrgreen: With this nice yellow start to his day, perhaps there will be ...oh...dare I say it? a BLUE too??? I will step out and ask him, plain and simple..."Harley..can you do BLUE for us today?"
As the added insulin is working within his body, he will be better able to utilize his food. the crazy appetite diminishes...so by your feeding him a little more, you were helping him to bring added nutrients into his body. Now, the hunger should start becoming more normalized. This happened to shadow too. I thought he would never ever get enough to eat in the beginning. It was hard to satisfy his hunger...now he has a more normal appetite again.

His running around is a great indication that he is feeling so much better!! :mrgreen: The more yellows and blues you see on his SS, the better he is feeling. His body will adjust to these unusually low numbers (His liver balks at the lower numbers though...) and eventually he will be striving to get into this nice healing range again and again! I am so very happy for you both! As he gets more healing time under his belt, his insulin requirements should start to drop... It is good that you are testing him often and watching him closely...
GREAT news!! Great job Pattie! :thumbup

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Harley has been in the high 200's but has trace ketones. Usually I would give extra water and some regular insulin (as they do at the U). I have emailed his vet to see how to proceed. Any suggestions?

Pattie

 

BUMP

Hi Pattie

I believe this is how you would proceed, try to flush it out with extra water in his foods ..any chance of calling the vet or will they get back to you quickly via email?

and if you can another ketones check this evening.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Primary vet is closed and U of MN vet is in rounds but will call when they are done.

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Pattie -

Check the expiration on the Ketostix and I'd also check yourself. I know -- I'm suggesting you pee on the stick. It's a sure way to determine whether the Ketostix are OK. They can be moisture sensitive and give weird results if they are old, have been exposed to moisture, or if you waited too long to read the results (which I doubt you'd do but it's worth noting).

If there are trace ketones, aside from getting as much water into Harley as possible and checking with your vet, there may not be much else you can do. I'd wait to see what some of the others say about dose. I think it may be a little too soon to raise Harley's dose.

Is everything else OK with him? No indication that he's not feeling well?

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Does he show signs of lethargy, vomiting, or acetone breath? Can you give him some food with water Pattie? When are you due to shoot? Hope your vet will get back in touch with you...
Can you keep us posted please?

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

I shoot in 30 minutes. He is not lethargic - just the oposite. He is laying down up jumps up every time I get up. I also found him up on the counters so he is active. He is crying for food again though. I have never smelled acetone breath so I do not know what to look for.

I made FF water for him which he is drinking right now.

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

That's good that you will be shooting soon. Then he will eat too...with plenty of water mixed in...
This is good that he does not have any symptoms. How many times has he had ketones? Did he act differently those times? I do not have first hand experience with ketones at all...
Signs of Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA)
* Drinking excessive amounts of water OR no water
* Excessive urination
* Diminished activity
* Not eating for over 12 hours
* Vomiting
* Lethargy and depression
* Weakness
* Breathing very fast
* Dehydration
* Ketone odor on breath (smells like nail-polish remover or fruit)

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Pattie,
I like Sienne's suggestion too - check the date on the strips, and test it on yourself.

keep us posted ok?

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

It was toward the end of the bottle of sticks. I have thrown them - only5 left and broken out a new one. I may shoot early because he is really making a ruckus about food.

anyway to reconstitute pee from the litter to try again?

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

ok good, new bottle is good.
and no - I think the urine needs to be as fresh as possible before it mixes with the litter.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Harley is ketone prone but has not had any for months. He does act differently so this surprises me. With ketones he wuld lay on the floor at night, not on the bed or couch, he would not want to go outside etc. Anyway, I just shot but forgot to test. I will do that when he is done.

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

so how much can I feed him without adding to the ketone problem?

Pattie

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Feed him as you have been, ... it's mostly the extra water in the food that can help flush it out.

Let's see what the fresh strips will tell you when you get a chance to catch him in the act.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

it sounds like you're on the right track, lots of water, and shooting early should help.

You can feed him normally, that won't affect ketones.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

pattie, if you haven't shot yet, increase the dose to 7.75u.
insulin, fluids (if you have them) and food are your best friends. if you don't have fluids, give him as much water as he'll tolerate in his food. you could even syringe water if he'll let you.

edited to add: you're familiar with the ins and outs using R. i'd use it.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

I have used R in the past with his ketones. Usually give 1 unit if his bg is above 250 and test q 2 hours.

Pat

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

using 1u of R is a lot, but i assume you know what you're doing with it since you've used it before.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Help

Vet just called. Her plan was: stick with the 7.5, give 1 unit R before I go to bed if the ketones are still there. Try and give as much water as possible.

Everything you have told me..Thank you everyone. :smile:

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Vet called

sounds like a plan. And after you give him all that water, maybe he'll give you a chance to get another ketone test too.

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Vet called

sounds good! let us know the results if you're able to test him again for ketones.
good luck!

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Vet called

Just sending support your way for Harley tonight hope things get better for him soon :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

 

Re: ~~9/13 Harley +11 291 - Trace Ketones - Vet called

Harley just peed - still a trace but it is not getting worse. I will continue with the liquid food and hopefully by tomorrow he will be negative. I think it will be a long night. I hate to ask - what else could go on. He really did good on numbers today which I will post later, so I don't know where the ketones are coming from. He is on budsonide - does steroids do something.

Pattie

 

thanks for re-checking the ketone test Pattie
I have no comments in regards to the meds, but as mentioned earlier, keep an eye on physical symptoms Pat posted for you

I hope it clears up and goes away thou.
((((Pattie))))

 

thanks for updating, pattie.
probably the best post i've ever read explaining ketones is The Hows and Whys of Ketones from Kathy and Cashew (GA): http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,251295,251334#msg-251334.
i have no idea if steroids do anything...

 

Hi -attie,
Im sorry to hear about this scare. I hope it resolves in a good way.

I do remember kelly/logan getting trace ketones after she started him on a steroid. And, I do remember during the situation that steroids CAN interfere and give false positives. I am not on a spot to google or backtrack these posts. Im quite certain I remember it to be true, tho. If you have a chance to google, please do. You could also post in health, or maybe see if kelly will respond to a pm.

If you need to do fluids at any point let me know. I would be happy to come over tomorrow night for the demo I offered.

Keep us posted.

 

I suspect this is the info on false positives & ketones that Carolyn was referring to.

One other thing to note. It can take a while for any change in a urine test. Testing via urine is subject to how quickly the body is metabolizing and producing waste products. Urine collects in the bladder and it takes a while, usually hours, for there to be enough to be eliminated. Harley may no longer be producing ketones and what you may be getting a positive read on is what was being produced several hours ago. (This is the problem with using urine glucose testing. You don't the immediate feedback that you do with blood.) You might want to get one of the meters that tests blood ketones. That way if you get a positive urine test, you can follow up a couple of hours later with a blood ketone test that will be more accurate.