911 - HELP...PM +2 = 55

Hmm...ok, I'm in panic mode now...I wasn't expecting this # at all given Beau's BG hovered around high 200's all day and finally went down to 200 at PMPS. I just fed him 3/4 can of Fancy Feast Classic and he ate fine. He seems alert and walking around no problem but I'm still worried. I will be checking his BG in another 15min. What else should I do in the mean time???

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

Just wantd you to know I'm here...now i'll read your post k?

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

150 point drop in 2 hours....well, I would at least feed some medium carb food if you have it. if you have high carb food, canned, you can mix a bit with some low carb canned. not too much. just about a tablespoon worth. you don't want to fill him up...or overkill the situation.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

I don't know anything about Pro-Zinc. But with Levemir or Lantus, which will gives a nadir in the vicinity of 6 hours post shot, if I got a 55 at +2 with the expectation that his BG would keep falling for the next 4 hours, I would feed a little bit of high carb fancy feast and check him again in a half-hour. Do you have any gravy varieties of Fancy Feast on hand? Things like this always happen at night, don't they!

Lana

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

pz usually hits nadir about +6 and has a steeper drop than the L's. so, i'm thinkin, don't fill her up just yet.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

I just retested him and he is at 40 now :shock: I do have some Friskies Prime Filets Chicken and Tuna Dinner in Gravy which is 19% carb, is that enough high carb or should I be giving him Karo syrup at this point???

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

but the good thing is there is no real hang time...it does it's thing and peters out. no shed.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

food first, lots of gravy and easy on the food. no karo yet.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

i say easy on the food cause i don't want you to fill him up too quickly...he may need to eat again.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

ok, I scooped as much gravy as I can from the Friskies and fed him with a bit of food. Will test again in 10min and post.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

the gravy has most of the carbs.
how's he doing...is he hungry?

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

just looking at your ss. seems that a few doses gave a rise in numbers rather than a fall. then next time a big fall. too much insulin can raise the numbers like that. I think you are ready to start mini doses...going under 1 unit.
and btw, you may get a big number in the amps....best to ignore it and still shoot the lowered dose.
you cat will be insulin sensitive after this.

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

Alicia, have you tested again? you are in good hands with Lori but if you put a 911 in your subject heading you might attract more eyes. (go into your first post and hit edit, then go into the subject line and add the 911)

 

Re: HELP...PM +2 = 55

Nancy, will you be hanging around?

 

I have to go test and shoot Payne's last dose, I posted a 911 in pzi and wish she would put one on this one but I will be back in 10 .... do you need to leave?

 

Alicia,
What dose did you give? I didn't see in this thread...
Carl

 

Thanks Nancy for the tip -- just edited my title.

Retested at 49 after about 1 tbsp of gravy. He appears hungry and lapped up the gravy as soon as I put it down. Should I continue to give him more gravy? I will retest again shortly.

 

Carl she gave 1 unit but you might want to examine her ss.....it looks like she may have been giving a bit much for awhile. those +2 and +4, even 6's were sometimes higher than the ps...and the next cycle would dip low.

 

I guess if your baby is hungry I'd let her eat.
She knows what she needs.
And Nancy if there are folks here...than yes, I will sign off.
But if not I won't leave her alone.........so, let's see who's can stay.

 

Alicia, can you see a .75u on your syringes. Do you have the u100's or the u40;s?
IMHO you need to reduce dose...and like I said, even if you get a large number in the morning.

 

Her SS says 1U, which is what a specialist prescribed after a curve yesterday during the day at their office. It looks to me though Beau's BG may have been still falling when she gave the shot at +12, as I didn't see a rising number test. Result at +8 was 273, but was 200 at +12.

Lori, I got up to check on Shaikha but it is wee hours here so I can't stick around. If CA folks can help out that would be great.

 

lori and wendy.
Help me understand....why did his numbers rise from AMPS for 6 hours?
carl

 

ok wendy. ni ni

 

carl when there is too much insulin in the body the liver pumps out some glucose for protection.
thus the rise instead of the fall you would expect.
I never like to see a rise after the dose, and she has had a few. followed by a dip the next cycle.
how much can you trust a vet curve. stress factor?

 

Lori - Currently I'm using U40 as that's what I'm familiar with. I just bought some U100 syringes from Walmart yesterday (the 3/10 cc ones) but haven't looked up conversion yet.

So what is a good reduced dose for tomorrow's AM shot if he is at shootable range?

Gonna go check his BG again, be right back.

 

Agree on a lower dose, Lori. She also needs to do a rising number test if the previous reading was higher than the one at pre-shot. Past posts have indicated substantial weight loss in one week plus vomiting, so vet asked her to look out for signs of anorexia, depression, etc. and if that happens suggested an US to check for pancreatitis or GI issues. She recently changed him from dry to wet food, so not sure of carb content these past few days. Her sig says she's feeding FF classic.

If she can use the U100s, it will be easier for her to dose in 0.2U increments accurately and 0.1U fairly easily (these changes will be between the half unit marks on the syringes she bought). I use the same syringes, and they do make tiny dose changes pretty easy.

 

Lori,
Yesterday's AM cycle was pretty much perfect wasn't it? And then the PM cycle showed the same "rise" as this morning.
When I got that sort of syndrome w/ bob, the vet told me to NOT keep the same am and pm dose. In the AM, for instance, I'd give him 2 units, and at night 1. That seemed to work better. Maybe work here? Like .75 and .5?

Carl

 

sleeping here. all i can say for sure is .75 in the morning sounds good, unless the number looks too low for even that dose.
and yes...make sure it is a rising number ok. unless it is a big old 300+
sooooo, anyone sticking around.
and what is the latest number alicia?
how is she?
eating?

 

ok, his BG is up to 63 now :smile: I will continue to test him at 30min increments until he's say up to 90? What's a good # to call it a safe range that he won't be dropping again tonight?

I will look up the conversion chart tonight. So does everyone think that 1.0U is definitely too high for him at this point and I should reduce his dose? To 0.8U?

 

yes carl the am yesterday looks good but last night and this morning...not so much. and tonight a crash.

 

Lori -- yes, still eating the gravy. So I should definitely test twice before each shot to make sure it's a rising # before giving the shot? I did not know about that at all...I always thought as long as the # is > 200 it's safe to shoot...

I will definitely need help for his morning dosage as well so if anyone will be around just letting you know I'll be posting his #'s starting around 7am PST.

 

Alicia, you did good on putting the 911 on but there is a red 911 icon above the subject line, go back to your original post, hit edit and add the red icon.

Lori, our new neighbors left the side gate open and my dogs are running around the neighborhood, I came back to get hot dogs .... Wendy I know it's late, sorry but I need to get these stupid dogs back home, I will be back but when?

I put a 911 in L hoping to catch more eyes because we are early in this, Alicia where do you live?

 

yes, dose reduction. .75. so every line is .2 So, just shy of 2u on the u100
and don't worry about a big number.
insulin sensitivity after this.
your safe at 80 I think...
just the food right?
you might want to leave it our for her.

 

Alicia,
Here is a link to the conversion chart
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

 

wow, busy nite girls.
alicia,,,if the number is 300 or so you can just shoot.
and actually if you've had numbers during the day for which your ps number is lower than the daytime numbers...well THAT is when you want to make sure it is rising....as it might appear to be the lowest number of the day. does that make sense?

 

Definitely try 0.8U as Lori suggested. On the U100s you bought, that is taking insulin up to the 2.0 mark. If you go a little below the 2.0 (halfway between 1.5 and 2.0 marks) you'd be giving 0.7U approximately. Do monitor carefully tomorrow in both cycles, but likely Beau will read higher due to rebound in the AM and possibly longer. Bounces can take a while to clear.

Beau if rising now so he should be okay, but leave the food out as Lori suggested and Beau will take care of the rest for tonight.

On the rising number test: If you do a mid-cycle test (and you should as he's still new to insulin) and his reading was higher then than your pre-shot number, do another test in 10-15 minutes to see if it is higher than the last. If so, feed and give insulin. If not, wait a little longer and re-test. Sometimes insulin lasts a little longer than the 12 hours we expect, so if you shoot on a falling number it can lead to unpredictable effects.

Nancy -- who let the dogs out? Hope you catch them all okay.

And now I'm definitely off to bed!

 

Alicia you are doing well, could you test again and where are you in his cycle? how many hours from his shot?
You need two rising numbers before you are out of the woods. (remember the gravy and such will inflate his #'s but when it wears off, he could dip again.

 

ok, he is up to 89 now and we are only at +4 into his PM shot. Do you think we are safe for tonight or should I continue to test until we're past +6?

Wendy - for the rising number test, if after waiting and retest his # is dropping but still in 180-200 range, is it safer to skip a dose or just give a reduced dose?

 

Wendy's gone sweetie, she lives in? somewhere where everyone is sleeping now, where do you live. 89 is a great # at +4 but how much gravy-med. carb did you feed Beau?

 

Nancy - I live in orange county between Orange and Anaheim. I gave him gravy from 2 cans of Friskies (I would say ~ 2 tbsp?) and a little bit of food that got scooped with the gravy. I will leave some food out and test again later since we're not at +6 yet I am concerned his BG might drop again once the gravy wear out and nadir hits.

 

How does he seem? he does seem to like the low #'s .... you could set your alarm for +6, can you get a test in before you go to bed to make sure he is still rising.

In the AM, post on pzi about tonight and what his AMPS is and have them guide your insulin dose, you shoot at 8:30 AM Pacific time? there should be lots of eyes on by then but a this point the 0.75u seems reasonable.

You did good, try and get one in now and a test at +6 and you should be okay. Could you get back to me before you go to bed.

 

Hi Alicia, and, of course, you too, dramatic Mr. Beau,

I can stay up with you and Beau for a while. The joys of insomnia...

I think you're doing great! I'm a big believer in giving food rather than Karo in these exciting moments -- depending on the number and when there's time. Karo will give the quick sugar spike, but won't last long. Food (higher carb or dry) can take longer to kick in; but, lasts longer. You're looking for lasting longer right now.

Nikki did this to me on Valentine's Day. It was an interesting gift choice. I would have preferred chocolate. It was a long night...

I'm going to go look at Beau's spread sheet now. I just wanted you to know I'm up and will stay with you.

You're doing great!

Love and hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who also threw some dramatic numbers a few times...

 

Thanks Deb! if you are up, I'm going to leave her with you. She was at 89 at +4 which was a half hour a go.
I can stay up if you can't stay ....

 

Dearest Nancy,

I'm up. Get some rest. And, thank you for the 89 @ +4. I think they're good; but, I'll stay up for the next test or three...

Beau is colorful, isn't he?

Love and hugs for you and Payne,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...

 

Alicia, Deb is going to stay with you, you've done really well!

I alerted some eyes in pzi in the AM to watch out for you, post when you do your AM test and post the results in pzi and they will help with your dose. BTW you follow directions very well ......

Give Beau a big hug for me, he's done spectacular!!! (you too!!)

((((Alicia and Beau))))

 

Thanks Nancy for staying up with me up to now.

Thanks Deb for keeping me company Beau just tested 147 at +5. Wonder if I gave too much gravy...hahaha...I was so scared when he plummeted from 55 to 40 in 30min I wanted to get his BG up quick. He is resting now so I won't bother him until +6. I left some food next to him so hopefully nothing drastic will happen between now and then. I'll keep checking in on him though in the mean time.

Boy he almost gave me a heart attack tonight! I just realized I haven't eaten dinner yet! I better get some food in me before I myself go into hypo mode....

 

Good night, go eat, talk to you in the morning.

 

Dearest Alicia,

Pretend you're in Europe eating one of those late night dinners Europeans are known for. I'm thinking of a slice or two of cheese toast myself... Hmmm...

I'm here. I might be chewing; but, I'm here.

You really are doing great! Now, eat! You need sustenance to test Beau again...

Much love and countless brave hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who truly taught me to be a better and stronger person...

PS: Alicia? You earned having your sugar toe shoes steel-tipped tonight...

 

Sweet dreams, Nancy!

 

Dearest Alicia, and, of course, you too, Mr. Drama,

Wow! Who doesn't like cheese toast?! I do believe it's the ultimate comfort food! Especially with a really good Irish cheddar (on sale!) on whole wheat... Yummy!

This is an example of what one writes while waiting for a +6 clear across the country. Maybe I should just start a cheese toast post on Community. Hmmm...

Love and patient hugs for you, your tummy, and, of course, Beau,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who had my sugar toe shoes steel-tipped, and then sent me Nikki...

 

Dear Deb - I have been on a low-carb diet for 2 weeks (not pleasant!) so your cheese toast is sounding really yummy right about now Beau's +6 is reading 217 so I think we are out of the woods tonight. Looks like it will be a high # in the morning.

Any idea on why the big drop tonight? Is it due to 1.0U being still too high a dose for him or is yesterday's vet visit a major contributing factor? Or as Lori suggested we have him on too high a dose (started at 2.0U and dropped to 1.5U after 5 days) concurring his diet change? Either way, I would really like to avoid this happening again if at all possible. It sound like if I make sure to get a rising number at PS and adjust dosage depending on his shootable reading it should be a smoother ride?

 

Dearest Alicia, sorry Beau, mom talk,

Okay, now I'm thinking about cutting my bangs. I'm not in the mood to cut my bangs, which pretty much means I'll cut eye holes. This is never good...

More stupid stuff written waiting for a +6...

How are you two doing?

Much love and wanting to know your both okay kind of hugs,
Deb and Nikki (don't let her cut eye holes...) -- and, Giz, definitely don't let her cut eye holes...

 

Dear Deb -

Beau is resting comfortably now and his + 6 is at 217 so I think it's ok for me to get some sleep now so I can get up at 7am to test his AMPS. Thank you so much for staying up with me. Now stop thinking about cutting your bangs and steer your mind back to the warm and yummy cheese bread

 

Dearest Alicia,

217 @ +6 sounds like you get to go to bed, perchance to dream of cheese toast! Be prepared. Nikki was 355 the morning after Valentine's Day... It took me a few days to get her back in the 100s...

I have no idea why they decide to drop. Nik hit 36 that night. Giz hit 28 one night. Both were, thankfully, asymptomatic... Both, I'm convinced have/had a pancreas that is/was strictly for decoration...

A diet change can make a huge difference in dosing. Beau's pancreas may still have some energy. My humble suggestion would be to err on the side of caution and reduce his dose. Better too high for a little while than too low for a heart beat... Nikki's on Levemir and Giz was on a U/L combo. Check in with the PZI forum in the morning for more knowing suggestions.

I'm so very glad you're both out of the woods!

And, now to sleep, perchance to dream...

Love and countless grateful hugs for you both,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...

PS: I didn't cut my bangs...

 

Good night, Deb. Thanks again for staying with me. I will be sure to post his #'s in PZI forum tomorrow morning to get dosing suggestions.

 

What a wonderful group of people on this forum! Love how some members stayed up right with Alicia and Beau throughout this frightening, nerve-wracking process. Thank you!!!

And, Alicia and Beau, hope today is a smoother, easier one for you both.

Eva & Butters

P.S. Seeing the 911 certainly raised my pulse this morning.

 

Alicia, just checking in quick (got up to do my rising number test on Shaikha), but if he's still dropping you to do NOT shoot. In cases like that, I wait again if I can. If I have to leave, I skip the dose entirely. It is better if you can avoid skips as it can lead to a yo-yo, but if you can't, c'est la vie. Shaikha sometimes will be falling when I don't expect as well. Knowing how much duration she really got can be valuable, so I try to keep testing to find out. If though, she's at a very high number like Lori said, you can safely shoot then. What you want is the number to be high enough to sustain a drop. A PS number between 180-200 would not do that, so throwing more insulin on top of a still-falling number would not be a good thing. If she repeats the longer duration at the next dose, I reduce the dose the following time.

You did great last night! :RAHCAT

 

Wow, what a night! I am sorry I wasn't around here to help There wasn't much of any way of knowing this would happen based on your preshot number last night. Oscar kinda did the same thing to me too @-)

If you can estimate it, I'd recommend going down to 0.75u this morning (depending on his preshot # of course!)

 

Thank you everyone for helping me through this crisis last night. I know I would not have survived his hypo episode on my own without an emotional breaking down. This message board is so valuable not only for the information available to newbies but also the incredible support from people in this group. I'm so thankful for finding this forum so early in his treatment. Beau and I thank all of you for being here with us through his treatment

His 7am BG is 303 and I will test again in 30min just to make sure there is no crazy change. I will post in PZI forum for dosing advise.