A newbie and worried. BG dropped to 77

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Marylou and Malika, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    My cat has been on Vetsulin for 13 days now 91U twice a day. I've been testing twice a day (AM/PM) as close to 12 hours as possible and her numbers range from 255 to 350 on Average (low of 209 and high of 379).
    I working on getting a curve, so gave her shot and have been testing every 2 hours so far. It's shot +3 hours and she's at 77. (I'm using AlphaTrak2).
    That seems really low. I gave her a Purely FF treat (no carbs) as a reward.
    My question: Is that number too low? At what point should I worry? Is giving her a zero carb food okay to try and get the number up just a little? Or is that number just fine and it's simply not one I've seen before.
    Any advice appreciated!!
     
  2. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hello, and great job getting those tests!

    Feeding her was absolutely the right thing to do, I might even have given her a little extra boost of carbs at this point. The "take action and feed high carbs" number on an AT2 is 68. However, it's quite early in the cycle, and Vetsulin can really yank numbers down, so I might be a bit more liberal than that in this case.

    In any case, here is the strategy going forward:

    1) please test again in 30 minutes-- if the Vetsulin brings her any farther down, you want to be able to react quickly
    2) if she goes lower, feed something with more carbs than the Purely FF. "Gravy" from a Gravy Lovers FF variety is good, but you can also give her a few drops of Karo syrup or honey for a quick boost of carbs
    3) if you do have to feed to bring her numbers up, feed only a small amount at a time-- a tsp or so. If you have to do this repeatedly, it's easier if she stays hungry!

    You're doing great-- nice job catching that 77!
     
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  3. Myagi and Heidi

    Myagi and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Oct 30, 2017
    Please give carbs now. That's too low. Drop of karo or tsp of high carb and retest in 15 20 minutes. Don't panic though. Great you caught low number. :bighug:
     
  4. Myagi and Heidi

    Myagi and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    Oct 30, 2017
  5. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    At 11:15 it was 77, 1 FF treat At 11:55 it was 78, 1 FF treat. Is it time for gravy? (As luck would have it, it's in a bag ready for donation and I haven't dropped it off yet)
     
  6. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hmm, she's holding steady so far, but I think I'd give her a little tsp or so of gravy out of caution. 70's on an AT with Vetsulin is skating a bit close to the edge for me.

    She's still quite safe, to reassure you, I'd just like to encourage her to start moving up sooner rather than later.
     
  7. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    The FF Gravy lovers is a great thing to keep handy for this kind of thing, glad you still had them!

    Malika is beautiful, by the way!
     
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  8. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    So, was the almost-donated FF her old regular food? Did you just recently switch over to all low-carb? Completing that switch can have a surprisingly large effect on BG and insulin needs, it might help explain why she's lower today than she has been.
     
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  9. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    I gave her about a tsp of FF with gravy. (She thanks you for that suggestion!) and I'll test her again at around 12:45.

    I know there's no hard a fast, but if I'm using a AlphaTrak2 and 1U of Vetsulin 2x a day. What are 'the best numbers' and when should I worry? I got conflicting information on that Forum, because they're using human readers.
    BTW .. she gobbled up the gravy, left most of the chunks and is now drinking water. Would a low number cause thirst?
     
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  10. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Thanks! She certainly thinks so ;-)
     
  11. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    After the diagnosis and giving her two days of insulin, I ran upon this site. So I stopped giving it and moved her over to low/no carb food. I took her back to the vet after 10 days of low carb and she was still above 300, so I'm 13 days into to both feeding and insulin.
    This site taught me everything my vet didn't tell me . (BTW, I changed vets)
     
  12. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Lows can definitely cause hunger, not sure about thirst. Here's the link to recognizing and treating hypos:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    We use a "take action" number of 68 on a pet meter like the AT and 50 on a human meter, after that it does get a bit fuzzy for the pet meters, as most people (around here at least) are more experienced with human meters. But here's my take for what it's worth: normal BG numbers on an AT are approximately 70-150. With any insulin, you want to aim to keep the cat under renal threshold, which can vary but is usually somewhere in the 200's, and with Vetsulin I wouldn't want to dip under 100 with any regularity. So, somewhere in the range of maybe 120-250 is where you'd be wanting to spend most of the time.

    OK, if it wasn't a very recent food change that caused the low, it could just be "one of those things"-- maybe she didn't eat as big a breakfast today as usual, or maybe she was coming down from a bounce (increase in BG in response to a low BG, they can last for days) and got a little momentum. So glad you were testing today!
     
  13. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Go Gravy! She was up to 117@1:00.
    I'm going to need to test her early every day for a while. She got in the habit of going into a closet and sleeping after the shots. I thought it was just getting used to, and I don't see her behavior change at night because she hangs out and sleeps on the couch. The low numbers might be her norm after injections.
    Time for a vet consult.
     
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  14. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Did you get any more tests after the 117?

    The hiding/sleeping could be an indication that she's going low, or at least lower than she's used to. It's definitely a good idea to get regular tests in to make sure she's safe. Usually we recommend a test before every shot (to make sure she's high enough to shoot), then at least one test in between shots to see how low the dose is taking her. If she's regularly diving below 100, I'd reduce the dose.
     
  15. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    She was at 147@2:20 (shot +6) and 170 @ 5:00 (shot +9). Her normal test time is 7:00pm and she's been ranging from 260 to 335 at that hour. What is a reasonable low number that I would not give her more insulin? I don't want her to crash while sleep!
     
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  16. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    We usually say that newbies "don't shoot under 200". Does she have any history of ketones or DKA?
     
  17. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    UGH! Her 7:15 number was 255. Maybe .5U instead of 1U ?
     
  18. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    I'll tag a couple of our Vetsulin users who might be online, @Kris & Teasel and @JanetNJ on this. Your plan seems reasonable to me, but they have more experience with this insulin and might have some additional suggestions.
     
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  19. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    She ate pretty good tonight, shot her .5U and 8:15 and will test no later than 9:30. She seems more active, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
     
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  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    I think 0.5 was a good idea. :)
     
  21. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    tested @ 7:15 255, .5U at 8:15, 9:35 was 206 and 10:45 148. I'll sleep well tonight, and hopefully so will the fuzz butt. <3
     
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  22. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    She's at 235 this morning (7AM). She ate a LOT after her test. Do you think another .5U would be okay? Or should I let this morning's shot slide.
     
  23. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I wasn't online when this message came through-- what did you decide to do?
     
  24. Marylou and Malika

    Marylou and Malika Member

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    Jan 15, 2018
    She made the decision for me. She's under the bed and I can't get her out. She threw up, as I feared, but it looks like she cleaned up after herself ... yuck!
    I should have closed the door while she was out and about. New habit coming up! I'm hoping for the best on my next test.
    Thanks for checking in with me!
     

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