absolutely ravenous

my cat, Sony, has been on prozinc for 3 weeks. after one week she was upped to 3 units twice a day from 2 units twice a day.
her symptoms of frequent urination and extreme thirst, loose stools, and tiredness are improving.
she is now alert and active but is now totally fixated on food and will not leave the kitchen. she sleeps where the food bowls used to be.

she was a dry food free-feeder and extremely finicky when we fed her canned food. now she is fed twice a day and no longer picky. she will consume anything.
she is eating only canned food of high quality and high protein/low carbs.

she is never satiated. at first we went by the guidelines and fed her two cans, 60z per can. we know she needs to gain weight so we spoke top the vet and upped it to 3. now it is 4 cans.
she is still RAVENOUS. she is digging through the trash when we are gone, she is climbing shelves and knocking stuff off. i awake at night and hear her rummaging around. i had to hide the fish food and can you believe it, the bird food! the other day she was licking the patio around the bbq grill.

i am worried she may find something bad or poisonous as she would eat anything.

what can i do? how much can she be fed?

 

Our Goof went thru the same thing for a while, it painful to watch, I felt like I was being so mean to him. He was also a dry food/free feeder. He is still on dry food as he's one that will vommit every bit of wet food, but it's Evo Cat and kitten and its 10% carbs.

Maybe you could mix a little dry in with wet, it'd take her a little longer to eat it and maybe she'd feel more satisfied. But only a couple of teaspoonfuls. Goof is still pretty hungry at mealtime, but he doesn't sit by the food cupboard and meow anymore. Well, not too often anyway!

 

Thanks, I will try and space the food out over a longer period to make mealtime last longer. We are trying stella and chewy's freeze dried cat food to see if she responds well to a raw food diet and she goes crazy for it. She chooses it over any canned food. I am just not sure what is too much.

 

Are you testing the glucose levels? If your insulin dose is too high, she may be ravenous to keep from going too low... and dying.
With the low carb food you are feeding, that dose may well be too high. I would drop back to 1 or 2 units until you are blood testing, and also test the urine for ketones while you do that. See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for more details.

You need an inexpensive human glucometer, matching test strips, and lancets for alternate site testing (26-28 gauge lancets). The Target Up and Up, or the WalMart ReliOn Confirm or Confirm Micro work very well for many of us, when using feline-specific reference values (See my signature link Glucometer Notes)

Spread food thinly on a plate to slow down eating.
Use a timed feeder to help spread out the food consumption.
If weight gain is needed, several smaller meals help the process more than large, less frequent meals which may provoke vomiting.

 

I agree with BJ-changing to a low carb wet food can dramatically reduce a cats need for insulin.

Here is a link to hometesting
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

In the meantime I would advise that you put more food out. I fed lots of mini meals throughout the day to help reduce the risk of hypo (I was also testing). In addition to the breakfast and evening meal could you also feed a few times more?

Here is the forums link to prozinc:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.109077/

 

First, a THANK-YOU!!

We have begun testing using the Bayer Contour Next Ez Blood Glucose Monitoring Kit.
Her pre-shot BG at 7 pm the past 2 days were 306 and 342 respectively.
These measurements were right after 3 oz of food as she wont let you touch her ears when she is in FEED-ME-NOW mode.
Post-test she gets the rest of her food and then her shot.
We are working our way up to more measurements and have been keeping a spreadsheet of her care.

She had a curve done at the Vet after spending a day there last Friday and that is when he upped the Insulin amount to 3 Units from the 2 Units she was on for the 1 week prior.

She is always energetic and not showing any hypo signs.

We are feeding her Stella & Chewy's Freeze Dried cat food. She LOVES this super expensive food but the ingredients/stats of it are impressive.

• Can I feed her twice a day her until she is full each time and worry about total amounts of food once she has gained weight?
• Can I safely give her a snack midway between shots or do I need her BG level first?
• What is a reasonable amount of food for an eight pound cat that needs to gain mass?

She is doing well otherwise. Her water consumption and urination are closer to normal and, I must be crazy to say this, but she had the most beautiful stool this morning.
So firm and normal looking and not a stinky loose mess as it was leading up to her diagnosis.

 

Thanks for the information. Can you try to get some mid cycle readings to see how low she is dropping. The dose prescribed is fairly large and it might be that she is dropping low in the middle of her cycle and bouncing back up.

Also the blood glucose at the vets may be up to 100 points higher than when they are at home as they are more stressed.

Re the food most people give more smaller meals as it is less work on the pancreas. You can feed mid cycle without testing but it is always useful to get a test in before food mid cycle if you can.

 

Not crazy at all. A well-formed, healthy stool truly is a thing of beauty.

I'd suggest posting a question on the forum's Prozinc Insulin Support Group to ask for recommendations about feeding more than one meal per 12-hour cycle in a way that complements the action of that particular insulin.

 

Vet stress may raise the glucose 100-180 mg/dL according to 1 research study.
Changing to a low carb canned or raw diet may drop the glucose level from 100-200 mg/dL and drop the insulin dose 1-2 units.
Thus, if you changed the diet after the vet raised the dose based on an office curve, your cat could be at risk of hypoglycemia, generally around the nadir, the loest glucose post-shot. This is usually around +5 to +7 hours after the insulin was given; that is a critical test you need to get, even if you have to set an alarm to get it overnight.

 

her curve was made after switching her diet but she was extremely stressed.
her BG was 350 last night and then i did my first fur shot. DOH!
i tested her ketones and the color indicator did not change.

this weekend i will spend time measure her BG regularly and establishing a curve of my own for her.

i must say, and it probably diet, but she has mostly returned to acting normal.
her litterbox habits and it's waste are not the nightmare it was becoming and now she wants to play fetch again.
she was so excited that she often didn't stop for her treat, she was like "throw the mouse throw the mouse" (treats are just chicken breast)
she then wanted to go for a walk and explore. she hasn't wanted to go for awhile which i had attributed to the loss of her companion.

 

I find my cat is starving when he is very low, dropping quickly or high. But you don't know unless you test.

 

It's great that you are testing for ketones. I would keep doing that as regularly as you can for now.

What will be interesting is how low the drop is after the insulin hits but in the meantime I would feed her mid cycle to reduce the risk of a hypo.

Glad that she is acting more like her normal self. It's hard to know what is down to the illness until they start to feel better.

 

I fed Grayson every 2 hours - he, too, was a ravenous beast! I got an automatic feeder (PetSafe 5) at Petsmart - they price-matched the Petco on-line ad, saving me about $15. Total price I paid was $49, and it was worth EVERY PENNY! Set it overnight and during the day. Depending on their appetite, I gave 1/4 to 1/2 can of FF at each feeding. Grayson had another condition causing the appetite, but our philosophy was "feed the beast!" Once we broke through his insulin resistance, his appy returned to normal.

Increasing to 3u of ProZinc after 3 weeks is high. I started Grayson on 1u. Also, by changing food to low-carb, you may not be seeing the numbers, but he may be going low and trying to carb-himself up. My former foster Spartacus was a master at that, as he was being dosed 11u N insulin when I got him - fortunately, the shelter was feeding him dry at the time, or he wouldn't have made it! I started him at .5u Levemir, and he's never been above 2u.

 

i am measuring but i am going to continue this in the Prozinc section

 

We have found that whenever they are ravenous it is for a reason. Their body is telling them they need to eat to get level again. Ours get Fancy Feast classics whenever they want it.

 

This really caught my eye. I'm concerned that Saoirse's appetite is a bit too keen at the moment. I also think she may have some residual insulin resistance (she has impaired fasting glucose). I'd be very grateful if you could post how you broke through Grayson's insulin resistance and also what signs you got to know it was no longer a problem. It would be a great help.

 

My cat also is food crazy, he acts like were staring him. I give him around 3 to 4oz of ff. 3 times a day and he gets 1 unit of vetsulin twice daily. Now tonight I took his glucose reading before I fed him and it was 546 so my question is should I recheck him after I give him his insulin?

 

Dawn
He probably is ravenous because he doesn't have enough insulin to process the food he is eating. In other words, he is starving despite eating ravenously.
Insulin dose adjustments are based on the nadir, the lowest glucose between shots.
You need to get some tests to see how low he is going around +3 to +4 hours after the shot of Vetsulin. If that number is well above 50 mg/dL, he likely needs a dose increase of at least 0.25 units. If the lowest number between shots is above 300 mg/dL, you need to increase by 0.5 units.

 

I just check the level again 1 hour after I gave him the shot and it was 426. Ty for the info. I will do the tomorrow after his morning dose. Know stupid question, I take the level reading before he eats right? I have so .much info going in my head I can't keep it straight sometimes. I am still so overwhelmed I want to scream. I am so glad I found this forum, you guys have helped me alot.

 

Test and feed 30 minutes before you shoot.
If under 200 mg/dL on a human glucometer, post here.
We have a Vetsulin/Caninsulin primer here.

Also, Dawn, go up to the Feline Health forum main level and create your own separate post so you can track answers specifically for your situation.

 

I am using a glucos2 meter from the vet made for cats. Ty I will.

 

Me too Dawn, me too.

 

I'm not familiar with the term "impaired fasting glucose" - can you please advise how you define that?

Insulin resistant diabetes is one of many symptoms of Acromegaly (Giantism) caused by a pituitary tumor. Several of the Acro cats have this symptom, and as a result, some of us have aggressively used obscenely high doses of insulin. Normal diabetics may use .5 - 2u of insulin. At 6u TID, Grayson was still not moving. We changed from ProZinc to Levemir, for the benefit of a longer-lasting insulin, and one that doesn't sting at high doses, and proceeded to climb the dosing ladder. My increases were done more rapidly, and 20-25% until we started seeing movement. This can ONLY be done when you are testing them frequently and prepared for a crazy drop in their numbers. Acro cats are NOT truly diabetic... their pancreas works. So a breakthrough can be sudden and a cat may go from 10u to OTJ overnight. Other variables may be at play as well. Infections, whether or not the cat has had SRT - treatment to radiate the tumor, etc. Being a little OCD is a good thing w/ an Acro.

 

Thanks, Lu-Ann, for the info on how you tackled insulin resistance for Grayson. Saoirse's diet-controlled at present (not an acro cat, btw) but her blood glucose level won't stop rising if she fasts for more than about 2½-3 hours and will eventually move out of the euglycaemic range if she doesn't eat (hence impaired fasting glucose level). Her pancreas definitely works. If she eats, her BG will frequently be lower 2 hours postprandial than it was before the feed. As best I understand it, either her pancreas is not secreting enough of a basal trickle of insulin or whether, due to insulin resistance, she is producing enough insulin but her liver isn't responding to it properly and therefore keeps churning out glucose.